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Dead Reckoning posted:So would you say that we should enshrine a separate (but no doubt equal) set of rules and regulations for traffic stops of minorities in our laws? Yeah, shoot white people on sight, let black people go. That way the police can use their discretion when it suits them without harming black people.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:30
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Dead Reckoning posted:So would you say that we should enshrine a separate (but no doubt equal) set of rules and regulations for traffic stops of minorities in our laws? No, I'm saying minorities should be treated the same way as whites and when the cops do engage in misconduct, the victim's minority ethnicity should be an aggravating factor like any other hate crime charge. But it's funny you're taking that concept and acting like it's some special right to not be harassed based on demographics.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:32
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ElCondemn posted:Yeah, shoot white people on sight, let black people go. That way the police can use their discretion when it suits them without harming black people. The sad thing is I can't tell if you are kidding.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:33
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FAUXTON posted:No, I'm saying minorities should be treated the same way as whites and when they do engage in misconduct, the victim's minority ethnicity should be an aggravating factor like any other hate crime charge. But it's funny you're taking that concept and acting like it's some special right to not be harassed based on demographics. It's not fair! Black people get all the breaks!
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Aug 5, 2015 01:33
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ElCondemn posted:Case closed, this thread is pointless, pointing out police abuse in videos online serves no purpose. So since the Ferguson protests began, 24 states have passed 40 laws addressing the way police interact with the public. There's a lot more to be done, but that's some concrete progress for the outrage machine. This thread keeps letting the lawyers come in an rehash some Legal Theory 101 class they had in first-year law school that convinced them to devote their lives to propping up a system that constantly shits on minorities and poor. You don't need to engage their rationalizations for pages and pages and pages. Change gets pushed through just fine by people getting pissed off at the status quo.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:36
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ElCondemn posted:It's not fair! Black people get all the breaks! quote:King was taken to Pacifica Hospital after his arrest, where he was shown to have suffered a fractured facial bone, a broken right ankle, and multiple bruises and lacerations. In a negligence claim filed with the city, King alleged he had suffered "11 skull fractures, permanent brain damage, broken [bones and teeth], kidney damage [and] emotional and physical trauma". or is this 
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Aug 5, 2015 01:37
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ElCondemn posted:Case closed, this thread is pointless, pointing out police abuse in videos online serves no purpose. Police abuse exists and is a problem. So does police racism. Stop trivializing the problem by making frivolous accusations. You do no one any favors by shrieking racism automatically at every fact pattern involving white cop/black citizen.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:37
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Dead Reckoning posted:And those would be? The ones I've pointed out repeatedly, that you don't think count for some reason. I would bet a lot of money that the training and policies that those departments implemented involved highlighting stops like the one of Sandra Bland as being an issue they need to work on. I don't see why you think that somehow it wasn't. They wouldn't need to say "and here's the facial tic on the cop in the video that proves he's a racist." Watching videos like this one, and the wide adoption of personal video cameras, is part of the reason why white people are starting to pay attention to police abuse. A lot of us have literally never had interactions with cops like that because we're not black. Then we see them and say "oh man, that's complete bullshit!" So doing it does pretty clearly serve a purpose. I'm not sure why you're talking about my motivation. All you have is bellyfeel, and you have presented no evidence whatsoever to support your position, because it is pure conjecture. Dead Reckoning posted:So would you say that we should enshrine a separate (but no doubt equal) set of rules and regulations for traffic stops of minorities in our laws? Where did I say we should change the laws? I was pretty clearly talking about department policy. Edit: ActusRhesus posted:The sad thing is I can't tell if you are kidding. Yes you can.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:38
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"Excuse me sir, which ethnicity did you identify as during this traffic stop?"
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PostNouveau posted:So since the Ferguson protests began, 24 states have passed 40 laws addressing the way police interact with the public. There's a lot more to be done, but that's some concrete progress for the outrage machine. Wow, are you saying that publicizing police abuse (racist actions included) is helpful and not just a circlerjerk? Could have fooled me, some serious posters in this thread were saying it was dumb to point out how racist and terrible police are.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:39
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TheImmigrant posted:Police abuse exists and is a problem. So does police racism. Stop trivializing the problem by making frivolous accusations. You do no one any favors by shrieking racism automatically at every fact pattern involving white cop/black citizen. It's so frivolous, a thread showcasing police racism and abuse and there still isn't a single video posted that exemplifies the problem. I guess we just have to keep searching, one day Dead Reckoning and his ilk will find the one video that proves there's a problem. Until then, nothing to see here. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 01:41
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ActusRhesus posted:The sad thing is I can't tell if you are kidding. Here's a law you should shoot down, make killing people illegal but also make it illegal for cops.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:42
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ElCondemn posted:It's so frivolous, a thread showcasing police racism and abuse and there's still a single video to be posted that exemplifies the problem. I guess we just have to keep searching, one day Dead Reckoning and his ilk will find the one video that proves there's a problem. Until then, nothing to see here. How old are you? Seriously. Public opinion is coming around to recognize the police problem we have. You do nothing to further that by acting like a shrill hyperspastic tween.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:46
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TheImmigrant posted:How old are you? Seriously. You have nothing to say so you resort to calling people names? Isn't it weird how public opinion started to change when videos started getting posted online of police abuse? It's kind of like the Rodney King video, that sparked a huge change back in the day, now we're seeing Rodney King every day and people like you are urging people to stop complaining? ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 01:48
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TheImmigrant posted:How old are you? Seriously. Well gosh public opinion is finally coming around, everyone relax and let the authorities take if from here.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:49
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Dead Reckoning posted:
Cool, make sure you include the part about how it was literally a criticism of you doing the exact same thing. Oh never mind, you'd have to not be disingenuous for a change.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:51
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Lemming posted:"and here's the facial tic on the cop in the video that proves he's a racist." If you freeze the frame at 2:37 you can see the swastika tat that covers his back and at 3:15 you can see a gang of hooded men carrying a burning cross in the corner of the video. Proof found!
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Aug 5, 2015 01:54
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A Fancy Bloke posted:Cool, make sure you include the part about how it was literally a criticism of you doing the exact same thing. Oh never mind, you'd have to not be disingenuous for a change. I suppose the difference is that the tones I spend most of my time policing are "factually incorrect" and "logically inconsistent."
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Aug 5, 2015 01:55
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Dead Reckoning posted:I suppose the difference is that the tones I spend most of my time policing are "factually incorrect" and "straight-up retarded." It's a noble cause, arguing that racism is impossible to prove. We're all glad you're here to fight the good fight, show those "thugs" the truth! edit: when I said "thugs" it totally wasn't meant as a racist term, as you can see I didn't use the N word or mention the color of anyone's skin.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:56
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ElCondemn posted:Wow, are you saying that publicizing police abuse (racist actions included) is helpful and not just a circlerjerk? Could have fooled me, some serious posters in this thread were saying it was dumb to point out how racist and terrible police are. Publicizing police abuse is the only reason any discussion is taking place at all. It may seem like police abuses are crescendo-ing, but I'm sure that they're at the same level they've been at for decades and decades. And the people who swing into this thread and go "well, the law says this. Oh, that solution wouldn't work though so let's not do anything." are the same kind of people who were saying the same kind of things when Bull Connor was siccing dogs on black people in Alabama. You really don't have to engage them. PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 01:58
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Dead Reckoning posted:I suppose the difference is that the tones I spend most of my time policing are "factually incorrect" and "logically inconsistent." Go back and read it again, the context was AR and her constant tone policing
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Aug 5, 2015 01:58
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PostNouveau posted:Publicizing police abuse is the only reason any discussion is taking place at all. It may seem like police abuses are crescendo-ing, but I'm sure that they're at the same level they've been at for decades and decades. Hell, if anything, it's probably better now than before.
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Aug 5, 2015 02:28
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Dead Reckoning posted:Sure you can. You can look at departments which narrowed the disparity between arrests of whites and minorities (and other metrics of bad policing,) and then you can look at the programs and training they used, and then you can encourage wider adoption of those practices if they're found to be useful. Racism without racists, amiright?
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Aug 5, 2015 03:05
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White people get pulled over like this, black people get pulled over like this, this, this,and this.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:18
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A Fancy Bloke posted:Go back and read it again, the context was AR and her constant tone policing It's not tone policing to point out when someone is using terms that are traditionally used to marginalize women. e.g. "too sensitive" and "flipping out"
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Aug 5, 2015 03:21
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Hell, if anything, it's probably better now than before. The Zoot Suit riots are an interesting read because during them, enlisted sailors would go around beating up minorities. The really interesting part however is an account of how some sailors held up some minorities, called the cops, and then the cops beat up the minorities themselves.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:23
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ActusRhesus posted:It's not tone policing to point out when someone is using terms that are traditionally used to marginalize women. e.g. "too sensitive" and "flipping out" why don't you just get back in the kitchen and leave the lawyerizing to the menfolk, wifey 
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Aug 5, 2015 03:26
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Shukaro posted:why don't you just get back in the kitchen and leave the lawyerizing to the menfolk, wifey I think the lawyers need to leave the lawyerizing to gutfeelers, because racism.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:28
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C2C - 2.0 posted:Like, I want to believe the judge presiding over the suit is gonna' laugh it out of court. I hope there is some provision for costs and attorney fees.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:46
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ActusRhesus posted:It's not tone policing to point out when someone is using terms that are traditionally used to marginalize women. e.g. "too sensitive" and "flipping out" Um sorry, you can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt any motivations behind the use of those terms, so your complaints about anything sounding like sexism can be dismissed out of hand. E: Unless you can quote someone saying "I hate women and am only saying 'too sensitive' because I hate women and for no other reason and I would never say it to a man." Thank you.
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Aug 5, 2015 04:46
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Zarkov Cortez posted:I hope there is some provision for costs and attorney fees. Literally the best post this thread has ever had.
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Aug 5, 2015 04:47
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Dead Reckoning posted:But your only evidence for this bellyfeel. You can't prove anything, you're just trying to wrap your worthless opinions in the language of righteousness. No dude, how about you read my posts. I condemn what the cop did because of his unprofessional behavior and his needless escalation of a routine traffic stop into an arrest and a beating over requiring the driver to obey arbitrary and pointless commands to stroke his ego (you do agree here, right)? And in addition, because this behavior is exactly the way a racist would treat a black woman, I conclude that he is probably racist. Addressing racism in police departments won't go back in time and stop this from happening, but that is not the point, the point is that events like this are all too common, and we know from looking at the statistics that racism is a motivating factor in a portion of them, and reforming the racial bias in policing will stop the future similar occurrences that are a consequence of that racism. Dead Reckoning posted:The thing is, people aren't saying, "I think racism was a component of this stop," they're saying that the stop was racist and therefore inherently wrong, I actually am saying the former. You are choosing to read the latter for some reason, and then being needlessly condescending and dickish instead of actually trying to understand what I am saying and have a conversation, why not just cut that out so we can talk about stuff? Dead Reckoning posted:and that it's proof that the system is broken and needs to change, and that anyone who disagrees with their interpretation is defending racism. The system is broken and does need to change, but we know that from the statistics. This stop is just a likely example of that, but even if it isn't and the cop in his heart-of-hearts loves black people and was just having a bad day, we know from the studies of our broken racist system that similar incidents will happen that are caused by racism until that's addressed. Dead Reckoning posted:People are welcome to their opinions, but they need to understand that unprovable beliefs about others motivations are utterly unworthy of discussion. All motivations are in principle unprovable because there is no way to directly observe another's thought process, this is a meritless objection.
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Aug 5, 2015 05:06
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I still don't understand how "the system is broken" if only .00001% of stops annually result in the kinds of news stories that get posted here.
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Aug 5, 2015 05:37
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blarzgh posted:I still don't understand how "the system is broken" if only .00001% of stops annually result in the kinds of news stories that get posted here. I know you understand that for every story posted here there are way, way more stops or arrests that are similar or identical that for whatever reason don't get wide traction, so what are you trying to gain from this poor trolling?
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Aug 5, 2015 05:46
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"Gee why is everyone so determined to prevent plane crashes, what about all the planes that didn't crash, see everything is fine" -Someone from the 1950s that was fortunately ignored E: "Only .025% of the population died in car accidents in 1967, shut up about your seatbelt law idea already what a waste of time." VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 05:48
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There was a blizzard, global warming is a hoax.
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Aug 5, 2015 06:03
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But seriously, we have a full Department of Justice Report on the dysfunctional criminal justice system in just one town that exposed systematic racial bias in detention and searches, racial remarks and jokes so commonly accepted in the department that they were freely sent out over official intra-office e-mail, documented cases of blatant abuse and beating of unarmed minorities, and a whole apparatus of funding the city government with bullshit fines and superannuating penalties to put people hundreds or thousands of dollars in unpayable debt to the city which was consciously levied on the poorest and most vulnerable people in the community, and all of this was happening for decades and decades and it took literal riots in the streets to even get anyone to investigate. And oh yeah, then the exact same thing happened in a major city and once again decades of abuse came to light only after another community burned. How can you read something like that and not conclude the justice system needs to be fixed in many places in the US.
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Aug 5, 2015 06:21
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Spun Dog posted:Here's a reasonable reaction by law enforcement to being filmed: I think this is just a lovely white-flight commuter suburb cul-de-sac sprawl town/city thing with respect to police departments. They almost always seem to be about the same with bored and harassing anyone for the stupidest things just because. To be fair, this city in particular tend to attract a strong tweeker type, and breeds bored teens with not much else to do but skateboard, smoke weed and instigate things while walking around endlessly uniform cul-de-sacs and eating at lovely chains (I should know).
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Aug 5, 2015 06:42
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Its not trolling; the fact that the justice department is investigating the Furgeson police is proof that, a) the system is working and b) Sheriff's deputies in Albuquerque or wherever don't need to have the past 200 years of 4th amendment jurisprudence rewritten on the fly by internet people because of [news story].
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Aug 5, 2015 06:45
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blarzgh posted:Its not trolling; the fact that the justice department is investigating the Furgeson police is proof that, a) the system is working and b) Sheriff's deputies in Albuquerque or wherever don't need to have the past 200 years of 4th amendment jurisprudence rewritten on the fly by internet people because of [news story]. What actions do you believe prompted the justice department to investigate the Ferguson police? The system was in place for decades prior to the investigation.
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Aug 5, 2015 06:56
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blarzgh posted:Its not trolling; the fact that the justice department is investigating the Furgeson police is proof that, a) the system is working I didn't realize a properly-operating system required honest-to-God riots in the streets before allegations of racist policing were taken seriously enough to be investigated. Oh look, another city is burning down, looks like we'll finally get an investigation, all is working as intended 
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Aug 5, 2015 07:03
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