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Kalman posted:When you've (recently) been criticized for putting economics ahead of race and done a good job of fixing that, putting out a statement that is literally "I know we don't agree on race but what about this economic poo poo" is tone deaf as hell. I agree with that. As much as I love the guy and know that he understands the race issues, and I see his ideal of the thought that fixing economic disparity will help with that, he needs to break it down for the vast majority of folk who can't see that the two are related. People just don't understand the link between the two. 
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Aug 6, 2015 03:39
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Kalman posted:When you've (recently) been criticized for putting economics ahead of race and done a good job of fixing that, putting out a statement that is literally "I know we don't agree on race but what about this economic poo poo" is tone deaf as hell. Economics should be put before race and #BlackLivesMatter "leaders" are self-appointed nobodies who represent nobody yet for some reason believe they are the gatekeepers for the democratic nomination. Does anyone actually think more than 1 in 20 Black Americans has even heard of these new leaders of the civil rights movement? Can anyone reading this thread actually name one of them without googling?
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Aug 6, 2015 03:40
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Kalman posted:When you've (recently) been criticized for putting economics ahead of race and done a good job of fixing that, putting out a statement that is literally "I know we don't agree on race but what about this economic poo poo" is tone deaf as hell. I imagine his intent was to say, "we may disagree on many issues but perhaps we can find common ground on one," but it's definitely phrased in a really tone deaf way.
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Aug 6, 2015 03:41
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Kalman posted:When you've (recently) been criticized for putting economics ahead of race and done a good job of fixing that, putting out a statement that is literally "I know we don't agree on race but what about this economic poo poo" is tone deaf as hell. You're not going to go to Lynchburg, VA - the place where Lee surrendered to Grant and essentially ended the war - and have people say "wow, maybe there really is something to this police brutality thing" this year. Bernie is not capable of being that kind of agent of change, no single person is. But what he can do is try to find common ground with them and get past a you're-Democrat-I'm-Republican divide so we get some kind of movement taking place. We can't shut out the deep south forever, all that has done is harden them and now race has actually become an even worse issue in some places than it was in the 80's or 90's.
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Aug 6, 2015 03:42
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Kalman posted:Bernie is a good dude but it's a reasonable criticism. I mean, if you ignore all the stuff he's done since Netroots Nation and are also a soulless person who cannot derive joy from the obviously hilarious idea of Bernie Sanders speaking to Liberty University, sure.
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Aug 6, 2015 03:43
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Pull up thread, noo...
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Aug 6, 2015 03:45
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MrBims posted:You're not going to go to Lynchburg, VA - the place where Lee surrendered to Grant and formally ended the war - and have people say "wow, maybe there really is something to this police brutality thing" this year. I wouldn't rule that out.
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Aug 6, 2015 03:45
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Can we have dreamers swing by and scare him away from this meal too?
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Aug 6, 2015 03:47
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Joementum posted:I mean, if you ignore all the stuff he's done since Netroots Nation and are also a soulless person who cannot derive joy from the obviously hilarious idea of Bernie Sanders speaking to Liberty University, sure. Please tell me there'll be video.
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Aug 6, 2015 03:48
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Bernie is like Milton Friedman in the sense that he accords an unrealistic amount of influence to economic effects.
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Aug 6, 2015 03:56
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I just spent 3 years living in Lynchburg, and it DEFINITELY was not at ALL one of the more conservative places I've lived. It's a town of 100,000+. There's a hell of a lot more people there than just Liberty students/faculty/the Fallwells. My neighborhood was around 50% black and full of Obama signs during election season. I sent my kid to a church pre-school at a church different from the one we attended on Sundays, BOTH large Churches. The religious community there is no where NEAR as conservative or evangelical or obviously die-hard Republicans as down here in the REAL south (no one from outside Virginia or Maryland considers those dumps part of our southern culture in the 21st century). And of course liberty students attending on-campus are primarily KIDS. I think Sanders will be almost as welcome as Ted Cruz.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:00
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Joementum posted:I wouldn't rule that out. People need to start realizing that 2016 is fittin' to throw the rulebook out the window. Everyone keeps saying that one of the establishment candidates is gonna over take trump but they're all (if you'll pardon the expression) a bunch of idiotic goons. Scott Walker is the best at tricking people (He's got that skill that lets you use money to cast spells) and Trump is going to stomp him a new Kochhole and walk it dry. Jeb Bush is like someone decided an infant should run for president. Marco Rubio, a man who can best be summed up as "who?", would be described here, but even thinking about him is putting me to sleep. TRUMP. UBER. ALLES.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:00
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If the general election isn't Trump vs. Sanders, everyone who casts a primary vote for Bush/Clinton should be shipped in train cars to the nearest Planned Parenthood butcher shop.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:03
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Is Bernard Sanders capable of error when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals?
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Aug 6, 2015 04:09
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Nessus posted:Is Bernard Sanders capable of error when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals? Bernie Sanders is only infallible in economic matters, and only when he invokes it
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Aug 6, 2015 04:10
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MrBims posted:You're not going to go to Lynchburg, VA - the place where Lee surrendered to Grant and essentially ended the war - and have people say "wow, maybe there really is something to this police brutality thing" this year. Bernie is not capable of being that kind of agent of change, no single person is. But what he can do is try to find common ground with them and get past a you're-Democrat-I'm-Republican divide so we get some kind of movement taking place. We can't shut out the deep south forever, all that has done is harden them and now race has actually become an even worse issue in some places than it was in the 80's or 90's. So maybe you just leave out the "we may not agree on race" part? Look, Bernie at Liberty should be a good time, but if you actually like the dude (which you should, he is a good guy) then pointing out "hey this was maybe not the best way to say that" is constructive criticism. I know Bernie cares about issues of race. I would just prefer to see him stop making statements that make it seem like he doesn't. E: Also, look at what he said below - in bold. You really think blacklivesmatter is a harder sell at Liberty than anthropogenic climate change? Climate change was in the original. It's really easy to make the statement not be one that comes off as "black people issues can be sacrificed in favor of economic issues." Drop the "we may not agree", list police brutality in there, done. "Liberty University was kind enough to invite me to address a convocation and I decided to accept. I think it is important to see if we can reach consensus regarding the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality in our country, about the collapse of the middle class, about the high level of childhood poverty, about climate change, about police brutality, and about other issues. It is very easy for a candidate to speak to people who hold the same views. It's harder but important to reach out to others who look at the world differently. I look forward to meeting with the students and faculty of Liberty University." Kalman fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 04:15
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Chris Christie posted:If the general election isn't Trump vs. Sanders, everyone who casts a primary vote for Bush/Clinton should be shipped in train cars to the nearest Planned Parenthood butcher shop. This but uniroically.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:15
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Kalman posted:So maybe you just leave out the "we may not agree on race" part? Where did he even say that? I'm tired and about to go to bed but I'm looking what you quoted right now and I don't see what you're talking about. I looked up several articles and ctrl+f'ed for 'race' and ignoring every reference to the presidential race and I don't find it. Either my brain is fried or you're being dismissive of the single biggest issue facing the the country as a whole and where Republican voters are often especially hurting, economic inequality, and just want to bring up Netroots Nation like everyone isn't sick to death  of hearing and talking about that in every single internet leftist discussion of Bernie.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:26
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VanSandman posted:You think the leadership of the Christian right isn't made up of true believers? Ask yourself why there were no laws or amendments against gay marriage in the US before the 90s,if you think opposition specifically to gay marriage is a core belief of the Christian right in general. Instead of an issue that was whipped up by the Republicans in the 90s.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:27
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MrBims posted:You're not going to go to Lynchburg, VA - the place where Lee surrendered to Grant and essentially ended the war - and have people say "wow, maybe there really is something to this police brutality thing" this year. Bernie is not capable of being that kind of agent of change, no single person is. But what he can do is try to find common ground with them and get past a you're-Democrat-I'm-Republican divide so we get some kind of movement taking place. We can't shut out the deep south forever, all that has done is harden them and now race has actually become an even worse issue in some places than it was in the 80's or 90's. I don't think you understand what liberty University is if you think it represents the deep south. It is a special kind of hardcore conservative Christian pseudo fascism that pisses off even most of the deep south for being too "out there" for their tastes. I assure you most deep southerners don't think, for example that listening to rock music should be punished nearly as hard as rape, but Liberty University does! Also LU punishes someone who gets raped nearly as much as someone who rapes.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:31
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Nintendo Kid posted:Ask yourself why there were no laws or amendments against gay marriage in the US before the 90s,if you think opposition specifically to gay marriage is a core belief of the Christian right in general. Instead of an issue that was whipped up by the Republicans in the 90s.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:32
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The Senate has voted to extend America's participation in the International Space Station until 2024. One of the sponsors was a certain Marco Rubio. http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/senate-agrees-extend-international-space-station-till-2024-0 The Article posted:“Throughout our entire economy, we need to eliminate unnecessary regulations that cost too much and make it harder for American innovators to create jobs,” Rubio said on Wednesday. “The reforms included here make it easier for our innovators to return Americans to suborbital space and will help the American space industry continue pushing further into space than ever before. This is an important win for Florida’s space exploration community.” Emphasis added, because  .Hate to break this to you, Marco, but if the trajectory of the ISS goes suborbital, it's not going to last until 2024.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:33
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Nintendo Kid posted:I don't think you understand what liberty University is if you think it represents the deep south. It is a special kind of hardcore conservative Christian pseudo fascism that pisses off even most of the deep south for being too "out there" for their tastes. No, I know, I didn't mean to conflate all of the south as being the same as Liberty. We have pockets of that in Appalachian Georgia, Pentecostal groups or cities with strong Civil War ties, then you go south to Atlanta and think you may as well be in New York. But so much of it all has been consigned away by Democrats at various times in recent history and we really felt the damage of it with the 2014 midterms. Sanders wants a new 50 state strategy and it doesn't feel like anyone with power wants to agree.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:47
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MrBims posted:No, I know, I didn't mean to conflate all of the south as being the same as Liberty. We have pockets of that in Appalachian Georgia, Pentecostal groups or cities with strong Civil War ties, then you go south to Atlanta and think you may as well be in New York. But so much of it all has been consigned away by Democrats at various times in recent history and we really felt the damage of it with the 2014 midterms. Sanders wants a new 50 state strategy and it doesn't feel like anyone with power wants to agree. Hillary Clinton's campaign manager is Robby Mook, who was a Deputy Field Director for Howard Dean, the architect of the 50 state strategy. Both him and Hillary have said they want to run a campaign that supports all democrats, and based on their actions, they are actually doing that.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:52
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It's just that someone sane speaking at Liberty University is like having a black jew give a speech to the annual Nazi party rally in the 30s. A few of the people there might already agree and be stuck being there because of their parents or whatever, but the vast majority are all in on hating everything they stand for.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:53
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Mook was also the guy who won the Nevada caucuses for Obama in 2008.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:54
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Kalman posted:So maybe you just leave out the "we may not agree on race" part? Jesus dude it's a two paragraph press release saying that he's speaking at liberty university. Also about the climate change being dropped, whatever group that published the article about the press release dropped it.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:54
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Anyone needing an intro to Liberty University should check out The Unlikely Disciple by Kevin Roose. The author (a crunchy-granola liberal college student) went undercover at Liberty for a semester.
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Aug 6, 2015 04:56
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Chris Christie posted:I think Sanders will be almost as welcome as Ted Cruz. So, people will be required to come listen to him?
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Aug 6, 2015 05:01
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I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him a chance, some conservatives like Sanders because he 'tells it like it is' ("like Trump", except Sanders' positions are actually consistent) and as an added bonus he's standing up to that bitch Hillary.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:04
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Plus he is an independent and gets conservative cred for being attacked by O'Malley for his stance on gun control.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:09
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Powered Descent posted:The Senate has voted to extend America's participation in the International Space Station until 2024. One of the sponsors was a certain Marco Rubio. Maybe Rubio is planning to deorbit the ISS over Russia/Iran/Cuba/the Right's boogeyman of the week at the end of his term.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:10
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JT Jag posted:("like Trump", except Sanders' positions are actually consistent) I'm in favor of evolution, and that's why I support Hillary/Trump 2016: Change you can drop on the trail
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Aug 6, 2015 05:11
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which candidate do i need to trade to evolve into a real liberal i already have jeb bush as my tm slave because he knows DIG by default
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Aug 6, 2015 05:14
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MrBims posted:You're not going to go to Lynchburg, VA - the place where Lee surrendered to Grant and essentially ended the war - and have people say "wow, maybe there really is something to this police brutality thing" this year. Bernie is not capable of being that kind of agent of change, no single person is. But what he can do is try to find common ground with them and get past a you're-Democrat-I'm-Republican divide so we get some kind of movement taking place. We can't shut out the deep south forever, all that has done is harden them and now race has actually become an even worse issue in some places than it was in the 80's or 90's. There are better places to do it than at a place like Liberty University though. Like there are tons of right leaning religious groups who he could totally make a 'look guys Jesus told us to help the lesser among us right? There's nothing wrong with helping people' argument. They also tend to have the advantage of not being a huge haven for racists, misogynists, and homophobes.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:15
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Neurolimal posted:which candidate do i need to trade to evolve into a real liberal Well since they didn't carry the Hermancain over to this year's version (not even stashed away in a secret gym) you'll probably just want to trade out Randpaul.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:27
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Tatum Girlparts posted:There are better places to do it than at a place like Liberty University though. Like there are tons of right leaning religious groups who he could totally make a 'look guys Jesus told us to help the lesser among us right? There's nothing wrong with helping people' argument. They also tend to have the advantage of not being a huge haven for racists, misogynists, and homophobes. Its a bunch of college students.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:28
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Powered Descent posted:The Senate has voted to extend America's participation in the International Space Station until 2024. One of the sponsors was a certain Marco Rubio. Eh, I'll let that slide for supporting the space program, even if he doesn't understand it.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:29
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ugh, there are too many conservative types this gen
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Aug 6, 2015 05:30
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Miltank posted:Its a bunch of college students. And it's giving legitimacy to a place that literally only recently decided interracial dating was ok. Again, there are better places, there are lots of religious, conservative, collages without this much baggage.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:37
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