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OK, that I don't get, the morale system isn't that hard to understand. It's a lot easier to understand than what some spells do. You just need to remember that morale 50 means not actually being influenced by the morale system and the rest is easy.
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Aug 6, 2015 12:00
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Malachite_Dragon posted:"We don't understand how our own game works anymore." Programming is basically a one man show that's been going on since 2001 or earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if morale was written a decade ago and we already know how bad these guys are at documentation.
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Aug 6, 2015 12:28
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Illwinter is slowly turning into the Adeptus Mechanicus. Soon they'll start fixing bugs by chanting to their compilers and rhythmically slapping their cocks on the monitors.
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Aug 6, 2015 12:28
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I kind of appreciate the cargo cult game design, to be honest.
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Aug 6, 2015 13:12
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Sloppy Milkshake posted:No, it's distinctly wrong, i've tested this before. Just to be sure I literally just tested it and lost nowhere near that much population. It's more like .66 per point of unrest patrolled away than 10 per. This is a big part of why blood is so insane. You can patrol down unrest and extract tons of blood slaves from your lands and it doesn't really depopulate them that quickly. If patrol actually killed 10 peasants per unrest removed that would be a significant and needed cut in blood's ability to scale so crazily.
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Aug 6, 2015 14:01
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Having high order + a lot of pd also helps with getting rid of unrest with out trashing your population, especially if you don't have some crazy blood searcher like a B9 fountain pulling 25 slaves a turn.
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Aug 7, 2015 14:10
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Lots of people take O3/G3 in scales, or close to it, the fact both helps against the bad side of blood hunting it's a big benefit.
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Aug 7, 2015 16:04
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 One turn there was a solid shield wall of Abysian heavy infantry protecting his fireball-spewing mage corp. The next turn... it was time for boar. This game is amazing. Shout outs to the Great Boar (perhaps the greatest), which gored the Abysian pretender god and then trampled his prophet into the mud.
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Aug 7, 2015 18:20
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That post was such a boar 
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Aug 7, 2015 19:02
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really disappointed to not see a thrice horned boar on your side of the field
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Aug 7, 2015 22:05
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An actual Rainbow pretender spotted in the wild. Now I've seen it all.
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Aug 8, 2015 11:01
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Density posted:Illwinter is slowly turning into the Adeptus Mechanicus. Soon they'll start fixing bugs by chanting to their compilers and rhythmically slapping their cocks on the monitors. That's basically programming in general. Always has been. All code ever written is bad and nobody comments as much as they should. Nothing is ever properly documented and programming languages change over time. Other times you have some problem that you need to fix right loving now or nothing will work at all but the only fix you can come up with fast enough is a terrible hack job. So you say "I'll put this in now because it works and fix it later." Then you never do and ten years later somebody else finds your god awful hack and thinks "hey that's a good idea!" Sometimes that's actually you but you forgot why you wrote that pile of garbage or what the fix was. Worse yet sometimes that god awful hack turns out to be the only reason why literally everything works. You try to fix it but everything else breaks. Which is the other thing; sometimes you fix one bug and it causes 30 more. The worst is net code. My one professor literally said that "the entire internet is constantly burning down all the time. It's a miracle it works at all."
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Aug 8, 2015 11:54
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And let's remember they are "hobbyist game developers", not professional game developers. Game development at Illwinter isn't their main job. I can't be surprised if they haven't maintained the code with maximum rigor in a what really is a 2-bedroom devs project.
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Aug 8, 2015 13:48
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Signed up for the goon game service.
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Aug 9, 2015 06:37
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Sloppy Milkshake posted:Always meme. Always. 
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Aug 11, 2015 06:14
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Are there any good tricks to prevent attack rear orders from RNG'ing their way onto your mages? Assuming storm is off the table and I would prefer to have my mages in the backline rather than in the center of a giant troop sandwich. I'm testing against large masses of flyers (200+, all set to attack rear orders) and even with like 400 troops arranged in 6 groups the flyers still sometimes get lucky and one group of 50 flyers will get to my mages in the back. Even more annoying, sometimes they all attack the rearmost line of troops, and the spillover of all those flyers colliding with each others can actually push them back into my mageline, effectively turning it into a mage attack. poo poo's very random and kind of hard to plan against. Is there anything I'm missing that could make avoiding the attack-rear more reliable? Like breaking my troops into more groups or setting them all to skirmish formation or something?
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Aug 11, 2015 06:22
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have mages that are ethereal and invunerable and have awe and fear and mistform and soul vortex. then they can survive standing on top of zotz
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Aug 11, 2015 06:34
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If your point is that I'm being foolishly stubborn then you're probably right but there's gotta be something abuseable about the way attack rear works to at least minimize the chances of my mages getting turn 1 batman'd
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Aug 11, 2015 06:44
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Put your mages slightly forward and off to the side and a blob of heavy infantry behind them on hold and attack closest to serve as targets for the Attack Rear order? Some dudes on Guard Commander might also work: If every square around your mage is full of friendly infantry then a batmans can't land next to him and stab him with a pointy stick.
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Aug 11, 2015 06:58
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Baiting it is an interesting idea but that leaves me in the same situation where I'm at the whims of RNG, since sometimes the rear attack works, sometimes it doesn't. Just seems kinda lame that even with double the enemy troop count there seems to be a critical mass of flyers where you just can't prevent the wraparound. Interestingly if I go up to like 700+ troops it actually gets worse because my troops take up all the space where the flyers would normally land and when the flyers surround my blob they get pushed back into my mages pretty much 100% of the time. Thus far my best results are from keeping the mages in the middle of all the troops and hoping they don't do anything too stupid as a result. Lesson learned i guess. Edit: also doing cheap stuff like spamming 20 groups of 1-2 units doesn't seem to have any effect.
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Aug 11, 2015 07:06
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Whether flyers can go over soldiers on Attack Rear or not is a morale check and like all checks in Dom4 it has DRN added to it. As DRN is an exploding 2d6 (that means if it rolls a 6 you re-roll and add the result, ex you could roll 6, 6, 1 for a total of 13 on 1 exploding dice) that means that there is always a small chance that the check will succeed no matter how many dudes are in the way. So you need to have some form of defense that works even if the flyers succeed on their 'attack rear' order because there is no way to ensure that it always fails.
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Aug 11, 2015 07:12
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There's a couple things you can do to deal with attack-rear flyers. Option A, which you've stated you don't want, is a mage sandwich - a "rearguard" of troops to bait out attack rear orders. Option B is having each mage have a squad of dudes on Guard Commander", which isn't perfect if a large number of troops hit your backline, but works well when combined with A so that flyer-bunching doesn't put your mages in the line of fire as badly Option C is having extremely high morale units between you and the flyers.  I might be misremembering this When a squad has a target and moves close to an enemy squad that isn't its target, it needs to pass an opposed morale check, or else engage the other squad. This is why attack rear orders often can't quite get all the way to the back row. If you put something like skeletons between the mages and the flyers, the flyers will almost certainly lose their opposed morale check vs the 50-morale skeletons and be forced to engage.
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Aug 11, 2015 13:57
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Actually skeletons are what I'm testing with, so I can indeed confirm that they get bypassed even when in the 400 numbers. I also understand the mechanics you're explaining Neruz, but there has to be some additional mechanic in place to determine which group gets attacked when an attack rear order is given: If I arrange 5 lines of 80 units each, and have 3 squads of flyers on attack rear, they often end up attacking different lines of units, and sometimes they will get to the mage backend. Usually only one flyer squad makes it to the rear, which suggests each squad is rolling individually (no surprise there). And the fact that they often end up adjacent to different troop squads is what made me think that having more squads of troops might proc more morale checks and reduce the rate of them getting to my mages. But that last point does not seem to be reliable, unless there is a minimum troop count required for the squad to trigger a morale check (I only tested spamming squads of 1-3 units). TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 14:09
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I think the number of troops is a modifier to the opposed morale roll (in other words, both the number of attackers and defenders count). It makes sense, if you think about it. So you can divide the units in several squads to provoke more morale checks, but each one will be easier to succeed.
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Aug 11, 2015 14:13
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The check isn't hard to pass and you don't want to gamble your mages lives on those rolls. Just make a blob of garbage and stick the mages in the middle.
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Aug 11, 2015 14:22
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TheresNoThyme posted:Actually skeletons are what I'm testing with, so I can indeed confirm that they get bypassed even when in the 400 numbers. Each squad rolls an individual morale check for each other squad it has to go past yes. When on Attack Rear orders if a squad tries to pass by an enemy squad they do some kind of morale check and if the check fails then the guys on Attack Rear attack the squad they are trying to bypass instead. Multiple squads of defenders reduces the likelihood that any given squad of flyers will get past, multiple squads of flyers increases the likelihood that one squad will get past. But due to the DRN addition that likelihood will never be certain either way and there is always a chance that a squad will just roll well and get all the way through. Squad size is definitely relevant to the morale check, I have no idea how exactly the check works (and neither do Illwinter) but bigger squads have better checks and very small squads of I think less than 5 guys have massive penalties to morale checks.
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Aug 11, 2015 14:33
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ChickenWing posted:There's a couple things you can do to deal with attack-rear flyers. Or if you have strong fire mages and with high fire resistance, Option D: Have them cast fire shield on round 1 and position them in a way to make as many fire zones overlap each other. Disclaimer: Only works against flyers without fire resistance, of course.
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Aug 11, 2015 14:35
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A staff of storms will shut down most flyers.
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Aug 11, 2015 14:46
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Torrannor posted:A staff of storms will shut down most flyers. Until an rear end in a top hat brings an army of Ziz.
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Aug 11, 2015 15:02
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Or Spire Horn Caelians. Or Air Elementals.
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Aug 11, 2015 15:05
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Neruz posted:When on Attack Rear orders if a squad tries to pass by an enemy squad they do some kind of morale check and if the check fails then the guys on Attack Rear attack the squad they are trying to bypass instead. I seem to recall Kristoffer saying that the unit starts trying to target (DRN) from the rear and works it's way forward. It's been like two months since I read that thread though, so I might be misremembering. Faulty as hell oral tradition is the proper Dominions way.
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Aug 11, 2015 19:32
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I have created a mod that you can use to create a passive observer player. This player has all graphs and will get a 999 stealth mindless spy hidden in every province via event. Just shove them into a province with no connections and they can quietly observe the game without interfering. They exist in all ages and it's quite easy to add them to a map. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4kxpe4qj63zogw2/observers.zip?dl=0
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Aug 12, 2015 02:29
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Nuclearmonkee posted:I have created a mod that you can use to create a passive observer player. This player has all graphs and will get a 999 stealth mindless spy hidden in every province via event. Just shove them into a province with no connections and they can quietly observe the game without interfering. Better make the spy floating and flying; there are still some remote assassinations that will target the spy (Vengeful Water, LA Atlantis' flying undead bear assassins) but there's nothing you can do about those.
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Aug 12, 2015 02:39
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Maybe a way to make the event re-occur every X number of turns to replace any scouts that get offed as a result? Also some water breathing for the water provinces, I think. Unless that's already covered by something else, I still have no idea what the gently caress I'm doing in this game 
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Aug 12, 2015 04:20
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Maybe a way to make the event re-occur every X number of turns to replace any scouts that get offed as a result? Also some water breathing for the water provinces, I think. Unless that's already covered by something else, I still have no idea what the gently caress I'm doing in this game Sure that will work but it still won't stop some remote assassinations that are intended to hit enemy players from accidentally hitting the superspies and wasting the mage's turn and gems used. Honestly I think 'observer has free Eyes of God he can recast with max gems whenever he wants, game only has 4 global slots. Deal with it' is the best way to do it. I'd rather lose a global slot than have to deal with the potential random interference invisible superspies would result in.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:26
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the only spell that targets stealthed mans is mind hunt and mind hunt will not target those guys because they dont have an mind
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Aug 12, 2015 04:29
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jsoh posted:the only spell that targets stealthed mans is mind hunt and mind hunt will not target those guys because they dont have an mind Doesn't Earth Attack hit stealthed mans? I recall using it to murder ponymans. Vengeful Waters will also hit them, though that won't have any actual gameplay significance beyond producing a giant fuckton of pointless combat messages. I feel like Tupilaks can go after stealthed commanders too, though that obviously only applies to LA Atlantis.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:32
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Neruz when are you coming back?
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Aug 12, 2015 04:38
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I sincerely doubt I will ever feel the urge to play Dom4 with goons ever again.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:39
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| # ? May 25, 2024 13:57 |
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Was there some drama?  A quick glance over post histories didn't show anything and 287 pages is a bit much to comb through.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:57
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