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Well it sounds like you can probably just wait for it to burn down and then you'll be able to start fresh!
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Aug 6, 2015 19:50
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Wulfling posted:Yeah, wrapping the ground to the neutral is what I've had more than half a dozen electricians tell me to do. To fix it now I'd have to go back and undo the splice on more than thirty outlets. poo poo. Am I simply surrounded by incompetence? I need to learn more of this myself for doing repairs. Honestly I'm not shocked. It explains a lot of the work out there at least. There's a reason why people act like a family member died when their go-to competent electrician/plumber/etc moves or retires. I feel you on the random circuits. I figured out I have a switch on my living room wall which is actually a three-way with a switch in a random wall of the garage which controls an under-eave outlet on the opposite corner of the garage  .Trick for tracking down which circuit outlets are on: plug in a radio and turn it up until you can hear it at your breaker box then start flipping until it turns off. If you have a helper have them mark the plugs and move the radio from plug to plug as you figure out which outlet is which. This is much faster than having a light on and having to go back and forth, and even faster than yelling back and forth to a helper because you hear instantly when you get the right one. Once you have all outlets labeled you can pull all the outlets and figure out where the hot is coming in. DRAW A DIAGRAM IN INK. It isn't fast and would have been easier to do when you were replacing everything but you''ll only have to do it once. Just make sure the radio doesn't have a battery backup. That was a frustrating experience and I felt so dumb when i figured it out.
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Aug 6, 2015 21:04
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Well thanks to you guys at least, I've unfucked all the outlets I hosed. All the electricians who told me to do that, I had contacted about getting a bid on flat rewiring the house. I don't have the labor to do it myself or I would. None of them wanted the job at all, and only one was willing to come out and look at the house. Assuming it wasn't against code, I'd just run all new wiring in conduits along the rafters, and put in a junction box at every drop to a switch or outlet, so no writing ran horizontally in the walls. Maybe that's dumb, but it seems reasonable if a bit over done.
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Aug 6, 2015 21:39
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Shifty Pony posted:Honestly I'm not shocked. Yet! 
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Aug 6, 2015 22:00
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Shifty Pony posted:Trick for tracking down which circuit outlets are on: plug in a radio and turn it up until you can hear it at your breaker box then start flipping until it turns off. If you have a helper have them mark the plugs and move the radio from plug to plug as you figure out which outlet is which. This is much faster than having a light on and having to go back and forth, and even faster than yelling back and forth to a helper because you hear instantly when you get the right one. Once you have all outlets labeled you can pull all the outlets and figure out where the hot is coming in. DRAW A DIAGRAM IN INK. It isn't fast and would have been easier to do when you were replacing everything but you''ll only have to do it once. Or use your phone, then you can talk to your helper.
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Aug 6, 2015 23:43
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Guy Axlerod posted:Or use your phone, then you can talk to your helper. You must live in a big city without basements.
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Aug 7, 2015 01:14
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My cellphone works just fine in the basement? I helped my dad figure out what circuit a given outlet was on by yelling across the house a few times when I was a kid, but the last time we realized we could just use our phones and save the yelling. Still frustrating.
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Aug 7, 2015 02:21
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Shifty Pony posted:I feel you on the random circuits. I figured out I have a switch on my living room wall which is actually a three-way with a switch in a random wall of the garage which controls an under-eave outlet on the opposite corner of the garage that doesn't seem that weird? if i had a christmas light set up it seems like it would be convenient to be able to control it from both of those places.
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Aug 7, 2015 02:55
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crocodile posted:that doesn't seem that weird? if i had a christmas light set up it seems like it would be convenient to be able to control it from both of those places. Weird is not necessarily inconvenient. That's a pretty good explanation, but it's still a thing to leave undocumented. What a pain in the rear end to trace and diagnose.
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Aug 7, 2015 03:01
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Shifty Pony posted:Just make sure the radio doesn't have a battery backup. That was a frustrating experience and I felt so dumb when i figured it out. sorry for rudeness but lmao
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Aug 7, 2015 03:23
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Hell, my box is outside this house is long and has plenty of sound murdering corners. I'd use it as an excuse to buy a set of walkies. Thanks for the assist all around. I'm leaning to hate everyone that does home repairs for a living. Going to buy a stack of books at home depot on my next trip and try to build off all the hand me down knowledge I have.
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Aug 7, 2015 03:30
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Rented a new apartment on short notice, the only place available in my price range. Checked the breaker box, got  'd by our old friend STAB-LOK   signed the lease anyway.How are they even legal/insurable anymore? My last apartment's lovely STAB-LOK didn't trip properly when my A/C pulled too much power, I manually toggled the switches and the unit kicked on. How that building hasn't burned to the ground is beyond me.
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Aug 7, 2015 05:54
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We got a computer upgrade at work. Previously, anytime an order came in, a printer beeped and spat out a ticket. Now we have bump terminals (screens with a row of buttons under them). I noticed that one of the new outlet boxes not only was sticking way out from the wall, but had two single gang outlet covers on them. Boss gave me the okay to go get a double gang cover. Removed the single gang covers...  .... oh. Box is packed so full that I couldn't push that giant rear end wire nut back at all. And once I put the original duelling single gang covers back on, the outlet on the right was completely dead until I smacked it. We only plug a radio into that one now. And of course there's the whole "uh, doesn't commercial wiring require THHN or BX? How does that work with a plastic residential old work box?" (hint: it's crammed full of romex) Best part is we have no idea what breaker it's on, otherwise boss would just fix it himself. We have 1 giant panel (about half of it is doubles IIRC), plus 2 sub panels, and since the restaurant is ~30 years old, there's been a lot of hack jobs over the years - lots of outlets that don't have work, lots of 208/240/277 volt outlets that haven't had anything plugged into them in 15+ years, . I noticed yesterday that the breaker marked "service disconnect" is 100 amps (!!!!), and appears to be 2 phase (we have 3 phase service). That entire box was so hot that the enclosure itself was uncomfortable to touch, and all of the breakers were too hot to touch for more than a few seconds. Same with the one of the subpanels (which has 3 of its 4 breakers labeled "spare"). We're pulling enough power that I wouldn't want to even touch that 100 amp breaker without arc flash gear on, and I'm guessing the subpanels aren't even connected to it - or they are, and the 100 amp doesn't turn off the panel it's in. The service enters at the top of the panel, with the 100 amp at the bottom, and the conduit from that panel to the next subpanel being at the bottom. e: I just noticed those outlets are stamped 15 amp. There's not a single circuit in the restaurant with a breaker under 20 amps; there's several 50 amp breakers though. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Aug 7, 2015 |
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Aug 7, 2015 06:16
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some texas redneck posted:e: I just noticed those outlets are stamped 15 amp. There's not a single circuit in the restaurant with a breaker under 20 amps; there's several 50 amp breakers though. There’s nothing wrong with that part.
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Aug 7, 2015 06:22
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15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit? I know it used to be kosher in residential (probably still is), but I didn't think it was allowed in commercial.
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Aug 7, 2015 06:26
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You might be right about that.
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Aug 7, 2015 06:46
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some texas redneck posted:15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit? Since there's a lot of newbs in here, why would this be bad?
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Aug 7, 2015 07:24
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Samizdata posted:Since there's a lot of newbs in here, why would this be bad? The outlet would burn up/otherwise fail at say 18 amps without tripping the breaker.
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Aug 7, 2015 07:27
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Enourmo posted:The outlet would burn up/otherwise fail at say 18 amps without tripping the breaker. Welp, that makes sense. I think I had the numbers flipped around in my head or something. Cheers!
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Aug 7, 2015 07:35
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I just bought a new house (well, I bought it in February, but I've been busy!). I have a couple of questions about things I've found, should they go here or the Fix It thread? Does it really matter?
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Aug 7, 2015 17:38
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Finagle posted:I just bought a new house (well, I bought it in February, but I've been busy!). I have a couple of questions about things I've found, should they go here or the Fix It thread? Does it really matter? The fix it thread is for 'look at this incompetence' and we try to fix it.
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Aug 7, 2015 17:43
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Enourmo posted:The outlet would burn up/otherwise fail at say 18 amps without tripping the breaker. 15 and 20A outlets are mechanically identical.
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Aug 7, 2015 18:18
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I'll just post the one I'm pretty sure is incompetence then! So this is the drain for my sump pump:  I didn't think anything of this when we got the house inspected since it wasn't running at the time, and neither clearly did the house inspector. But when we get a lot of rain, half the water from the house doesn't go into the pipe in the ground! This causes a huge lake to form around the pipe, and if there's one thing I do know about houses so far its that water next to foundation = bad times. I guess my questions are: 1) Just how BAD is this? 2) My best friend took a look at this and his concern is that because "the type of corrugated plastic pipe" its possible just going back into the drain area that the sump pump drains in the first place, rather than out to the street/away from the house. Is that right? How do I even tell? 3) Is this easily fixed by either A) getting a cap for the drain pipe in the ground and connecting it up to pipe from the house? (Something like this is what I'm trying to describe poorly:  or B) just extending the pipe from the house to actual go INTO the pipe in the ground, so it splashing and flooding the area around the pipe isn't an issue?I'm new to owning a house, and while I am very confident in my ability to LEARN to do things, I am also very aware that I am starting from scratch in most of my knowledge. Add to that that I'm going back to school (and thus quitting my job here in a couple weeks) so stopping problems before they start is something I really want to do where possible!
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Aug 7, 2015 18:25
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I can't answer whether or not it drains away or back into the house but as for linking the pipe to the drain pipe you can use just about anything. My dad cut up a milk jug to bridge the gap between gutter downspout and drain pipe before  All you need is for the water to go into the lower pipe, any kind of funnel will do. A nice reducer coupler will look nicest, of course.
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Aug 7, 2015 18:28
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Arrath posted:I can't answer whether or not it drains away or back into the house Fill a 5-gallon bucket with water and some food coloring, pour it down the pipe, see if the sump pump starts shooting out colored water?
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Aug 7, 2015 18:35
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Phanatic posted:Fill a 5-gallon bucket with water and some food coloring, pour it down the pipe, see if the sump pump starts shooting out colored water? Boom, there you go.
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Aug 7, 2015 18:36
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Finagle posted:
This needs to be in the FiF thread. However: 1 - Bad maybe 2 - That could be drainage to a ditch or set to discharge in the soil in your lawn (usually in a gravel bed under a layer of soil). Or you could just be recirculating into the sump. But you won't know unless you dig it up. (EDIT: or the colored water trick... there's always a simpler solution...) 3 - Yes it can be fixed easily. It just looks like the flange disconnected from the drain tile. Mine is set up where the PVC goes into the ground, has a 90 elbow into a flange which connects to drain tile that empties into my ditch.
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Aug 7, 2015 18:39
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insta posted:15 and 20A outlets are mechanically identical. Then why are they rated differently? Because "gently caress You, pay us more"?
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Aug 7, 2015 21:27
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insta posted:15 and 20A outlets are mechanically identical. Also, you can have 15 amp outlets on a 20a circuit, including commercial. Enourmo posted:The outlet would burn up/otherwise fail at say 18 amps without tripping the breaker. No it wouldn't. You can't legally plug a 18 amp device into a 15 amp outlet. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Aug 7, 2015 |
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Aug 7, 2015 21:34
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some texas redneck posted:We got a computer upgrade at work. Previously, anytime an order came in, a printer beeped and spat out a ticket. Now we have bump terminals (screens with a row of buttons under them). incoming insurance fraud, I'm calling it..
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Aug 7, 2015 22:00
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kid sinister posted:No they aren't. 15a plugs can fit in 20a outlets, but 20a plugs can't fit in 15a outlets. Enourmo posted:Then why are they rated differently? Because "gently caress You, pay us more"?
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Aug 8, 2015 01:00
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wolrah posted:Internally they are in some cases literally the exact same thing with different faceplates. So not "mechanically identical". Yes, I think many/most people get that it's often cheaper to produce fewer SKUs even if those parts are over rated for certain applications. That doesn't make it to code to use a 20A outlet on a 15A circuit nor does it make a 20A plug fit into a 15A receptacle. We can discuss manufacturing economy or how two 10 A devices with NEMA 5-15s plugged into the same 20A outlet will draw more than one 17A device with a NEMA 5-20, but that would be missing the point. Code is not perfect. Its changes and additions are often reactionary rather than proactive. But it still serves a purpose and not following it isn't smart, not only in terms of safety but also in terms of risk: liability (civil, criminal and insurance) as well as resale value/ease of resale.
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Aug 8, 2015 01:50
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froward posted:incoming insurance fraud, I'm calling it.. I doubt it. It's long, long, long depreciated (the store is 30 years old), and it's a cash cow for the owner (who is one of the larger franchise owners in the company). He's a cheap gently caress who always goes with the lowest bidder though... and, well, you may be onto something. No sprinklers, no fire alarm. I went outside today to take out the trash, like I do every day. All of the meters (along with a pad mount transformer leaning at a nice angle) are by the dumpsters - found the one for our suite. The disconnect was buzzing and hot to the touch, and the sticker on it claimed it was rated for 240V 100A, with a rusty padlock keeping it locked in the on position. Makes me wonder if it's even a 3 phase disconnect. I don't want to be anywhere near that thing if someone manages to shut it off, I'm guessing there's a lot more than 100 amps going through it - the meter (LCD display on it) showed a load of 37kW. I did notice that the lights (all of them - coolers, ceiling lights, menu board, etc) have stopped flickering at random since the new outlets went in, at least, so they probably had the cover off of the main panel at some point. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Aug 8, 2015 |
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Aug 8, 2015 07:55
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Motronic posted:So not "mechanically identical". Enourmo posted:The outlet would burn up/otherwise fail at say 18 amps without tripping the breaker. The wiring the outlet is attached to is another matter of course, but that's not what the quote was about. No one said anything about code or it being a good idea.
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Aug 8, 2015 17:04
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As long as the 18 amps aren't on a single socket, it doesn't even matter that they're sharing internals, because 5-15 outlets are listed for use on 20A circuits. They are required to pass through 20A, and handle 20A total between the two sockets.
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Aug 8, 2015 20:14
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Speaking of dumb electrical ideas. http://www.amazon.com/NEMA-5-15P-5-20R-Plug-Adapter/dp/B00DNF5Z2M
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Aug 8, 2015 20:28
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KillHour posted:Speaking of dumb electrical ideas. quote:Rated for 15 Amps 
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Aug 8, 2015 20:36
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A cartel of property insurance companies probably designed that and brought it to market.
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Aug 8, 2015 21:03
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KillHour posted:Speaking of dumb electrical ideas. Amazon Review: worked great to adapt a treadmill with 20amp plug into 15amp outlet. The treadmill had 15 and 20 amp modes so we are not in danger no worries!
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Aug 8, 2015 22:10
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KillHour posted:Speaking of dumb electrical ideas. Apparently they go even higher http://www.amazon.com/Conntek-Locking-Adapter-Female-Connector/dp/B002YB108Y/ref=pd_cp_23_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=130E2FPK884J6QBDZM3G 
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Aug 8, 2015 22:20
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