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Noticed & bought this game a while ago but hadn't played it (so little time these days), you guys have knocked it out the park stik. Mark of the Ninja is one of the few games I've 100% completed and this'll easily be another (well as far as that makes sense in this). Beat experienced after a couple of false starts, really like how the turn based nature of the game can make even unsalvageable looking scenarios possible. Thought I'd lost the lot when an Akuma, 2 Okames, and 3 guards closed in on a bottleneck with three of my agents inside (1 was already down), but managed to get my starting pair back out (even if I abandoned one, at least I was still alive). The next mission (final before OMNI) was a detention centre, and funnily enough was one of the agents I left behind, with his disruptor and cloak still equipped. Is that deliberate? Welcome anyway, managed to get me through OMNI with armour piercing, even if I had to sac a couple of agents to do it.
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Aug 6, 2015 23:43
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| # ? May 29, 2024 22:59 |
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The update appears to be live!
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Aug 7, 2015 03:16
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I'm not sure if they added new decor in the update or just because I never got this far in Endless before, but I really like the tatamis in Sankaku levels. Also I'm loving the new Felix daemon, just because I can now spam trigger daemons with Central with no fear of losing cash.
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Aug 7, 2015 14:22
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Will be few days before I get the chance to play the game again, how does Prism's camouflage work?
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Aug 7, 2015 14:31
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Lichtenstein posted:Will be few days before I get the chance to play the game again, how does Prism's camouflage work? Here's what I've learned from trying it in one mission: - It costs 2 power to activate. - It costs 2 power every turn to maintain. - It will deactivate when sprinting or attacking. - It will deactivate when in the sight of a guard who is 1 tile away. In practice this means "right in front of a guard"; guards can walk right next to Prism as long as there's no head-on collision. There are some edge cases though; if there's a hidden tile right in front of the guard, the disguise will deactivate although the guard never acknowledges or sees you. Diagonally standing guards also have a red 'watched' area in front of them that is comprised of 3 tiles instead of 1, so that may screw things a bit. - Works on cameras. - It does not prevent the effects of laser/infrared walls. - You can loot safes and interact with computer consoles freely. - Items can be used freely. You can have more-or-less infinite camouflage if you have +2 power generation every turn, but you'll be hurting for power turning off safes and cameras for your other operatives. Exploring is also a bit slow; sprinting toggles the disguise off and you need to spend more power to turn it back on. Edit: Also, camouflage Prism starts with zero augment slots, I just noticed. Edit2: Here's an example of using the disguise. The guard will not be alerted. 
Connoisseur fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Aug 7, 2015 |
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Aug 7, 2015 15:14
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All of that post is correct, except for: Connoisseur posted:- It will deactivate when in the sight of a guard who is 1 tile away. In practice this means "right in front of a guard"; guards can walk right next to Prism as long as there's no head-on collision. There are some edge cases though; if there's a hidden tile right in front of the guard, the disguise will deactivate although the guard never acknowledges or sees you. Diagonally standing guards also have a red 'watched' area in front of them that is comprised of 3 tiles instead of 1, so that may screw things a bit. During your turn, the three tiles directly in front of a guard are ALWAYS watched and will deactivate your disguise, not just for the guards standing at a diagonal. Those three tiles are your danger zone. If one of those tiles is in cover, though, it doesn't break your disguise to be there, like if the guard is standing next to cover and you are around the corner. When they are walking, they'll only break your disguise by walking into you or walking right up to you, but I've definitely had my disguise break more than once because of a guard moving somewhere I didn't expect. Getting Wisp or a Tag pistol seems essential for helping her to hide safely in plain sight. The new Prism is really fun actually, but she's very tricky. Not having a weapon is rough, and the power drain is definitely something you'll need to plan for and build towards fixing. She works really well with any version of Internationale and with Central for their bonus power gains, and also with the new Dynamo program since it lets you disguise forever for the back half of the map. I kinda wish I could take both regular prism and archived prism together with Dynamo and Parasite, that'd be a strong set of anarchists.
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Aug 7, 2015 16:11
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I'm a little underwhelmed by the new programs. I find myself de-prioritizing small server terminals because there's a lower probability of getting something I actually want. That, and I'm going to miss the old Cloak III, but I get why it needed to be nerfed. Basically, awesome hard game is now harder and awesome-er. 
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Aug 8, 2015 21:31
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A lot of the third tier items need nerfing.
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Aug 9, 2015 02:14
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Archive Prism is loving cool as hell. I had her drag a bullet-riddled Internationale out of a huge swarm of agitated guards over like a dozen rounds of alert level 6 lurking and scrambling. What a fun gimmick.
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Aug 9, 2015 13:49
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Just picked this up and it’s great fun. Managed to get to the final mission on my first go but got easily defeated. It’s very FTL-like in that you’re trying to both survive and use the events thrown at you to prepare for a definite endgame. My error was using the FTL and XCOM logic that more people is a big priority when it seems like 2 kitted out agents are much better than 4 with default stats and equipment. At the moment I’m just trying to get as many missions as possible in 72 hours and not really caring what they are, not sure if I need to apply more strategy than that to choosing missions on the easiest difficulty? Also, is there anything I can do about those shielded guys in the final mission if I get the right equipment or is it just a matter of avoiding them? Once they were on my case it was game over.
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Aug 10, 2015 12:06
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This game is great. Finished it on Beginner without too much trouble, but moving up to Experienced made it a lot more difficult. I've picked Parasite as my starting software, which makes it difficult to move through a level quickly because a lvl2 camera stops you dead in your tracks until it's cracked. A Buster chip helps a little, but not enough. Had to use all my rewinds after busting Xu out of prison and a bunch of drones and guards were between me and the exit ("are you breaking under the pressure, Operator?" Yes, yes I am). Ultimately made it out safely after using a hacked drone to murder a guard. I liked the ending. Reminded me of System Shock and Deus Ex, and of course the ending to the original Command & Conquer. One question: how do I use smoke grenades? All I can do is drop them, and when I do they just lie on the ground being useless. e: figured it out 
SixFigureSandwich fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 12:12
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Walton Simons posted:Just picked this up and it’s great fun. Managed to get to the final mission on my first go but got easily defeated. It’s very FTL-like in that you’re trying to both survive and use the events thrown at you to prepare for a definite endgame. While focusing upgrades on a couple of people seemed to be the best way, I found having extra people to carry items / move bodies / sit on knocked out bodies was very useful. Theres two types of shields - the ones with the very large shield numbers are hackable and their shield level is the hacking amount required. The ones with smaller fixed shields you have to find items that can penetrate that level of shield.
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Aug 10, 2015 12:37
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Any idea when the new update will reach GOG?
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Aug 10, 2015 13:03
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Citizen Psmith posted:Any idea when the new update will reach GOG? Today or in the next few days, probably.
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Aug 10, 2015 14:05
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robostac posted:While focusing upgrades on a couple of people seemed to be the best way, I found having extra people to carry items / move bodies / sit on knocked out bodies was very useful. More people allows you to explore the levels much more quickly, which I find very important in higher difficulties. Most of my losses comes when I'm going the wrong way, thinking it takes me to exit instead of a dead end.
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Aug 10, 2015 14:28
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My OF Xu/Archive Prism dream team sprang Nika from a detention facility and were getting all set for a daring escape. Someone spotted Prism the next round and she was quickly surrounded, so I used my rewind to go back to the turn in which I freed Nika. The game thought about it for a second, then gave me the "Agency terminated" screen 
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Aug 10, 2015 15:00
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Picking up one extra agent early on is very helpful in my experience, but you don't want to try and get a fourth until all of your agents are decently kitted out. For the final mission, you will really want: > At least one way to deal with armor 3 guards. Shock traps work best but +Piercing augments with very good guns or disruptors will also work. The more of these you have, the easier the mission gets. Lethal options are better than non-lethal here, because you will always hit alarm level 6 no matter what. A flurry gun passed between multiple agents can clear the level for you. > A panic button or two. Stun grenades and smoke grenades are optimal, but cloaking devices and Shock Trap 3 also work. I haven't found one since the new update so I don't know if they've changed, but Shock Trap 3 is the single best piece of equipment in the entire game and will carry you through levels by itself. If you can bring at least 2 into the final mission it will be a cakewalk. > Better programs. The ones your start with will not cut it. I find Dagger and Parasite are the strongest programs, a Hammer 2 or 3 can also be incredible, and Oracle is incredible because it auto-hacks cameras without caring about their firewall level. Hunter or Tauros are helpful but Daemons are not game-enders by themselves, so you can survive without them. It's also important to note that all of your agents are expendable on the final mission. Final mission details: You need M0nster to get the code from the security terminal and then open the final door, and then get Central through the final door to end the mission. As soon as you find the final room, hide Central in the corner of the room and have her wait out the entire rest of the mission. You can use your agents to cause a huge search party to go nuts over a side room somewhere away from the main two objectives. Have someone poke out of cover, get seen, duck back into cover, and then move them somewhere else where they won't get spotted when the guards come looking, and you can rather quickly get the entire complex swarming around looking for your agents and ignoring Central and M0nster. Of course, I like to try and get all of my agents into the final room too before ending the mission for bragging rights, but that's not remotely required to succeed and their survival has zero impact on your final score, weirdly.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:18
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Does the update expand the storyline or is it purely a mechanics update?
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Aug 10, 2015 15:31
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I've just bought a holographic projector for 400 spacebucks and it's pretty good. Agent about to get caught by a guard patrolling into a room? Have another agent throw the holoprojector. You are now in cover.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:33
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just got to the final mission on beginner and I have zero ammo for my guys' guns. lol I am so hosed.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:39
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MinibarMatchman posted:just got to the final mission on beginner and I have zero ammo for my guys' guns. lol I am so hosed. There are some money in the last level and shop with some charge pack. You can also have an agent draw all the guards to him/her and just stall for as long as possible while the rest of your people get the mission done.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:43
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Guns are not necessary in beginner at all. Funnily enough though, if you ARE relying on guns in beginner, you're actually in much better shape than someone who has played experienced when moving up to expert.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:55
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double nine posted:Does the update expand the storyline or is it purely a mechanics update? Purely mechanics, but they have announced that they are working on DLC to expand the story and add new characters/possibly a fifth Corp.
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Aug 10, 2015 17:10
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gnome7 posted:Purely mechanics, but they have announced that they are working on DLC to expand the story and add new characters/possibly a fifth Corp. Thanks. Now I can set my expectations accordingly.
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Aug 10, 2015 17:21
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Note that the dlc story is a kind of a prequel that's about Central's Pan-Euro Infosec Agency during the Resource Wars in her youth. There is sparse information about it in Central's and Monst3r's bios.
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Aug 10, 2015 19:53
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Thanks for all the tips, this is very FTL in that I die, huff for about 30 seconds and then restart.fspades posted:More people allows you to explore the levels much more quickly, which I find very important in higher difficulties. Most of my losses comes when I'm going the wrong way, thinking it takes me to exit instead of a dead end. Just lost a campaign due to this, the detention cell was in the one room a decided I didn't have time to check out at the start. Learned a lesson there.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:05
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One more thing is to weigh the benefits of waiting some turns vs just ramboing through cameras/guards. Yeah, you'll rack up the alarm via the latter, but you're also moving the alarm up by waiting.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:37
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TastyLemonDrops posted:One more thing is to weigh the benefits of waiting some turns vs just ramboing through cameras/guards. Yeah, you'll rack up the alarm via the latter, but you're also moving the alarm up by waiting. Yeah, this is a super important thing to realize, especially when it comes to killing. I used to think lethal options were a trap, considering heart monitors and charge packs. But Shalem and an early Flurry Gun basically won me my first attempt at Time Attack. Some guards just absolutely need to die, especially if they're unavoidable early on. I had a cyberlab mission where the lab was literally the first room after the start, and there was a stationary guard watching the door. You better believe I kicked that thing down and blew him away, because otherwise he would have been hounding me through the rest of the mission or locking down one of my agents just to pin. OMNI was a bloodbath between Shalem's starter rifle and the Flurry Gun, because so many OMNI units are armored or shielded, cutting down on your options for handling them. Plus you need your disruptors and pinning agents for those goddamned Harbingers.
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Aug 11, 2015 04:47
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stiknork posted:We're on sale -for 40% off this weekend in addition to the update, if anyone's interested and hasn't checked out the game. http://store.steampowered.com/app/243970 TastyLemonDrops posted:A lot of the third tier items need nerfing. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 17:23
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Zombie Samurai posted:Yeah, this is a super important thing to realize, especially when it comes to killing. I used to think lethal options were a trap, considering heart monitors and charge packs. Better yet, pair Xu with your killer agent. Kill anyone without worrying about raising the alarm level. Is it just me or Xu is the best agent? You don't even have to upgrade him to make him immensely useful. Safes, heart monitors, camera drones are all non-problems if Xu is there. He's indispensable for me at Expert Plus. Also, did you know that you can kill those super annoying Plastech Modded MK I's by using the Hunter program on the daemon that spawns after you KO them? Excellent reason to get Hunter right there. fspades fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 17:39
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Shumagorath posted:Is there any difference for you guys if someone buys from GOG? I chose them over Steam even though I would have had an extra 10% off for owning Ninja. Galaxy still hasn't updated so I'm guessing it's not your priority platform? I feel they are a problem in endless mode (hello, fully upgraded team with 6 tier 3 cloaking device), but in campaign you can only get one or two tier-3 items in a playthrough.
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Aug 11, 2015 17:39
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pedro0930 posted:I feel they are a problem in endless mode (hello, fully upgraded team with 6 tier 3 cloaking device), but in campaign you can only get one or two tier-3 items in a playthrough. I have to admit Shock Trap III is totally ridiculous though. The rest are fine, imo.
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Aug 11, 2015 17:43
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fspades posted:Better yet, pair Xu with your killer agent. Kill anyone without worrying about raising the alarm level. Xu is hands-down the best agent. Some agents help with power flow, some help you move through missions faster, some help with security, but Xu's augment is so incredibly versatile that it helps with all of those things. I mean, it's an EMP with no cooldown. Even if it had a cooldown or got switched to a Buster Chip effect it would be super good. And that's not even touching the Shock Trap he starts with. That's really interesting about the MK Is, too. Though I have to say, after doing Faust/Brimstone and Endless past Day 5, daemons don't really scare me anymore.
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Aug 11, 2015 18:04
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If Klei patched out drag-and-stand cheese I quit.
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Aug 11, 2015 18:39
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Just stole a Mk.III cloaking rig off a Spec Ops guy 
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Aug 11, 2015 19:03
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fspades posted:I have to admit Shock Trap III is totally ridiculous though. The rest are fine, imo. I love Shock III, but it goes from "best item in the game" to "use this if you want to fail the mission" in the jump from Expert to Expert Plus.
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Aug 11, 2015 21:39
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If I am carrying a dude and standing on top of a dude, does that mean I am pinning two enemies with the same guy?
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Aug 11, 2015 21:53
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^^ Yep, dragging abuse is great. Even better if you can KO multiple people on the same spot and then pin them all while dragging another dude. (I usually accomplish this with multiple shock traps or guns.)protomexican posted:I love Shock III, but it goes from "best item in the game" to "use this if you want to fail the mission" in the jump from Expert to Expert Plus. How so? I didn't start using shock traps until expert/expert plus because until then armor was so low as to be negligible or easily hacked. Not so much with multiple enemies with 8+ armor a piece. Joiny fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 22:01
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Joiny posted:How so? I didn't start using shock traps until expert/expert plus because until then armor was so low as to be negligible or easily hacked. Not so much with multiple enemies with 8+ armor a piece. I believe he means the alarm level shooting up with several KOs. In one of my final missions in Expert Plus I put four KO'd guards next to each other in an empty room, arranged so that they would wake up during the same turn, disabled their heart monitors with Xu and put a Shock III on the only door. Then they woke up and a fifth guy from the outside barged in. 
fspades fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 22:12
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Ah, I feel like there's 2 ways to play a level. One way is to go fast, but cautious, and get out by alarm level 3 or 4. This avoids getting more guards and daemons while giving you enough time to clean the place out. The second way is to shoot up to alarm level 6 by murdering people, ignoring cameras, and basically getting 'caught' in such a way that you'll be able to deal with it during your turn or use it as a distraction. Once you're at alarm level 6 you basically know where all the guards are and the level becomes easily beaten. With good guard control/manipulation via dragging/shock traps/guns you really have nothing to fear and can sit around forever. I feel like endless really encourages this style of play especially with the 2 levels of alarm advancement at the start of a level in the later days.
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Aug 11, 2015 23:07
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