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Trapezium Dave posted:Well shoot. Yeah that's honestly the only concrete thing I think we know about the system. To seriouspost, I'm kinda looking forward to seeing how it works because I just like encountering new game rule systems 
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Aug 9, 2015 02:10
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I liked what they did in Skyrim, especially abolishing the stats. Micromanaging those was by far my least favourite part of the earlier TES games. Getting rid of the classes also made it a lot easier to roll up a character and just start playing. I'm not sure I like SPECIAL stats being too malleable though, as SPECIAL stats being rather fixed into what you set them up originally was part of what made that system stand out.
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Aug 9, 2015 02:28
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Well it would balance out since you get less points to initially spend on it
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Aug 9, 2015 02:29
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What seems to be confirmed is that SPECIAL starts at 28 points. Each SPECIAL stat has 10 perks beneath it, 1 for each level of that stat. Most perks have multiple levels. You get 1 perk per level and can put it into either the stat or into a perk that's been unlocked by having the appropriate leveled stat. There's no level requirement, so if you decide to start with 10 in AGI (and crap everything else) you can get the 10 AGI perk as soon as you level up.
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Aug 9, 2015 02:32
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Cut out skills, cut out SPECIAL, cut out perks, cut out VATS, leave in guns, add perks to weapons, change setting to space, replace mutants with aliens, cut everything, replace it with colored blocks that fall from the top of the screen.
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Aug 9, 2015 02:38
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Just started up a new FO3 game, having only played through it once years ago. I was struck by how rushed the story is in the beginning. You go from being roughly awoken to killing several people for the first time to being dumped out a world which you've never seen all in a few in-game hours. Then you're just kind of expected to be able to immediately play catch up on all these places and events. On one hand, it's reasonable to dump a player out and not have any idea what anything is (and an excuse for lots of exposition). On the other, it feels a little disconnected and lacking in consequence. Again, all this being about the pacing of the writing. I'm sure some would argue that it took too drat lang to get to the killing and looting. Hopefully the FO4 character, having experience in the world before the bombs, will feel like a little smoother transition. It's also one of the things I'm hoping the voice overs will help with, adding more contextual impact to the character's experience of events.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:10
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graynull posted:Just started up a new FO3 game, having only played through it once years ago. I was struck by how rushed the story is in the beginning. You go from being roughly awoken to killing several people for the first time to being dumped out a world which you've never seen all in a few in-game hours. Then you're just kind of expected to be able to immediately play catch up on all these places and events. Yeah, like, how did potty training go? What was each day of school like leading up to the GOAT? What about all the other birthdays?
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Aug 9, 2015 04:12
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graynull posted:Just started up a new FO3 game, having only played through it once years ago. I was struck by how rushed the story is in the beginning. You go from being roughly awoken to killing several people for the first time to being dumped out a world which you've never seen all in a few in-game hours. Then you're just kind of expected to be able to immediately play catch up on all these places and events. You wanted to spend MORE time in the vault?  I'd rather be able to explore the wasteland as fast as I can
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Aug 9, 2015 04:14
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JackBadass posted:Yeah, like, how did potty training go? What was each day of school like leading up to the GOAT? What about all the other birthdays? I don't really understand what point you're trying to make here. Are you agreeing with him or being awkwardly condescending in a way that doesn't make sense?
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Aug 9, 2015 04:17
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Not more time in the vault, as it is a game after all. Just talking about how rushed it feels as a story. Part of why I don't like the vault dweller tossed into the wasteland as a video game scenario. The time to make the story make more sense, to me, wouldn't work well.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:17
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frajaq posted:You wanted to spend MORE time in the vault? Who wouldn't want to spend more time in the vault? The tutorial stage wasn't nearly long enough.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:18
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graynull posted:Not more time in the vault, as it is a game after all. Just talking about how rushed it feels as a story. Part of why I don't like the vault dweller tossed into the wasteland as a video game scenario. The time to make the story make more sense, to me, wouldn't work well. I don't understand what doesn't make sense to you on that. Your character has never been outside the vault, nor heard anything about the world outside the vault aside from "It's dangerous. Stay inside". On a plot level, it makes perfect sense.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:20
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Meridian posted:I don't really understand what point you're trying to make here. Are you agreeing with him or being awkwardly condescending in a way that doesn't make sense? Welcome to JackBadass
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Aug 9, 2015 04:20
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JackBadass posted:I don't understand what doesn't make sense to you on that. Your character has never been outside the vault, nor heard anything about the world outside the vault aside from "It's dangerous. Stay inside". On a plot level, it makes perfect sense. Yeah, and as I said all that makes sense, but feels rushed and disconnected to me. You are hit with all these changes and then just started on the 'kill 10 molerats' treadmill. But I agree, it wouldn't be great for video game pacing which part of why I liked NV's story/starting scenario more.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:24
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> Life is peaceful but kinda oppressive in vault > One day my best friend wakes me up scared > Oh poo poo dad ran away > Oh poo poo they killed Jonas > Oh poo poo they're trying to kill me > better get the gently caress out of here Seems pretty straightforward
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Aug 9, 2015 04:26
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graynull posted:Yeah, and as I said all that makes sense, but feels rushed and disconnected to me. You are hit with all these changes and then just started on the 'kill 10 molerats' treadmill. But I agree, it wouldn't be great for video game pacing. ...okay? So what would you like instead? You're kind of all over the place on this thought, it seems.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:26
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JackBadass posted:...okay? So what would you like instead? You're kind of all over the place on this thought, it seems. A non-vault dweller start, really. Time for your character to digest all these changes and all that crap just doesn't work as well for a video game as it would a book or movie. I also am more interested in MY IMMERSION than most players.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:28
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graynull posted:A non-vault dweller start, really. Time for your character to digest all these changes and all that crap just doesn't work as well for a video game as it would a book or movie. I also am more interested in MY IMMERSION than most players. Play New Vegas instead, since it doesn't get into any previous details about your character aside from a place or two they may have been or a family they may or may not have.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:31
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graynull posted:A non-vault dweller start, really. Time for your character to digest all these changes and all that crap just doesn't work as well for a video game as it would a book or movie. I also am more interested in MY IMMERSION than most players. I would think playing a game for the first time, you could immerse yourself better if you're learning about things along side the character. I guess you could go the opposite end of that spectrum, though, and end up with something like Destiny, where everyone but the player knows what's going on for the entirety of the game.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:32
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Meridian posted:Play New Vegas instead, since it doesn't get into any previous details about your character aside from a place or two they may have been or a family they may or may not have. Yes, nothing more immersive than vague or no details...
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Aug 9, 2015 04:33
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JackBadass posted:I would think playing a game for the first time, you could immerse yourself better if you're learning about things along side the character. Playing the game for the first time doesn't really excuse Bethesda's writing. The way they introduce you to the world in Fallout 3 isn't that great, so it's not out of the question that someone playing it isn't immediately immersed despite it being the first time they play it.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:37
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Meridian posted:Playing the game for the first time doesn't really excuse Bethesda's writing. The way they introduce you to the world in Fallout 3 isn't that great, so it's not out of the question that someone playing it isn't immediately immersed despite it being the first time they play it. No, of course it doesn't. The writing sucks, no argument, I just don't see how it breaks immersion.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:39
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JackBadass posted:Yes, nothing more immersive than vague or no details... I'd say that it is better to be thrown into it and learn as you go than have the set up of Fallout 3 where you apparently have a background but your knowledge of it is fragmented because it hops around so much and isn't really that interesting to begin with. Rather come up with my own character's origins than have certain details dictated to me poorly. But hey, that's just me.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:40
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The first few seconds of the game allow you to kill a character while only being an infant. How could you possibly not be enthralled by the story when they make sure you murder at least a person and a few rad roaches before Dad does something stupid?
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Aug 9, 2015 04:40
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Meridian posted:I'd say that it is better to be thrown into it and learn as you go than have the set up of Fallout 3 where you apparently have a background but your knowledge of it is fragmented because it hops around so much and isn't really that interesting to begin with. Rather come up with my own character's origins than have certain details dictated to me poorly. But hey, that's just me. Don't engage with JackBadass, his opinions are bad and talking to him only serves to waste your time
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Aug 9, 2015 04:43
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Meridian posted:I'd say that it is better to be thrown into it and learn as you go than have the set up of Fallout 3 where you apparently have a background but your knowledge of it is fragmented because it hops around so much and isn't really that interesting to begin with. Rather come up with my own character's origins than have certain details dictated to me poorly. But hey, that's just me. So your complaint about it seems to be in regards to your character's relation to other characters, as opposed to their lack of experience in the location, am I right?
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Aug 9, 2015 04:44
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Magmarashi posted:Don't engage with JackBadass, his opinions are bad and talking to him only serves to waste your time I'm getting that impression.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:44
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Meridian posted:The way they introduce you to the world in Fallout 3 isn't that great, so it's not out of the question that someone playing it isn't immediately immersed despite it being the first time they play it. The first location you probably go in the game after exiting the vault is an abandoned and destroyed village that you can loot stuff in the house wrecks, you also see a weird eyebot yelling american propaganda. If you go left you find a house with a scared junkie inside, if you keep going that way you find an abandoned school full of vicious raiders that want to brutally murder you. If you go right instead you end up in a town constructed out of junk with a nuclear bomb in the middle. When I played for the first time I learned pretty quick what Fallout is about 
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Aug 9, 2015 04:44
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JackBadass posted:So your complaint about it seems to be in regards to your character's relation to other characters, as opposed to their lack of experience in the location, am I right? No, you're not.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:45
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frajaq posted:The first location you probably go in the game after exiting the vault is an abandoned and destroyed village that you can loot stuff in the house wrecks, you also see a weird eyebot yelling american propaganda. If you go left you find a house with a scared junkie inside, if you keep going that way you find an abandoned school full of vicious raiders that want to brutally murder you. If you go right instead you end up in a town constructed out of junk with a nuclear bomb in the middle. That's also not your introduction.. It's when you're dicking around in a boring vault for what feels like forever but is actually really goddamn rushed and badly set up.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:47
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Meridian posted:No, you're not. Then what is your complaint? You cite New Vegas as being better in this regard when it does the same things, just with better dialog.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:47
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frajaq posted:The first location you probably go in the game after exiting the vault is an abandoned and destroyed village that you can loot stuff in the house wrecks, you also see a weird eyebot yelling american propaganda. If you go left you find a house with a scared junkie inside, if you keep going that way you find an abandoned school full of vicious raiders that want to brutally murder you. If you go right instead you end up in a town constructed out of junk with a nuclear bomb in the middle. Oh absolutely, I was more referring to the vault sequence rather than your first encounter with the wasteland.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:47
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Meridian posted:Oh absolutely, I was more referring to the vault sequence rather than your first encounter with the wasteland. I think I get the complaint now. That's like saying one spot on the dog turd is more brown than another.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:49
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JackBadass posted:Then what is your complaint? You cite New Vegas as being better in this regard when it does the same things, just with better dialog. As I said in my previous post rather clearly: Rather come up with my own character's origins than have certain details dictated to me poorly. Bethesda obviously had their narrative thing going on and I get that, but it wasn't introduced very well and wasn't particularly compelling throughout that quest line. I am saying New Vegas is better in that respect because you don't start off the game with character relationships dictated to you.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:51
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Meridian posted:Bethesda obviously had their narrative thing going on and I get that, but it wasn't introduced very well and wasn't particularly compelling throughout that quest line. I am saying New Vegas is better in that respect because you don't start off the game with character relationships dictated to you. You kind of did, though. Hell, the first [TIME FRAME REMOVED TO PREVENT CONFUSION] of the game you spend chasing a character that you had a bad relationship with. I wholeheartedly agree that 3's story was C- minus work at best, but NV was still guilty of this to a degree. A much smaller one, but still noticeable.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:55
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The PC doesn't know any more about Benny than the player does. Finding out why Benny shot the PC over a tiny trinket is like, the entire narrative hook of the game.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:57
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JackBadass posted:You kind of did, though. Hell, the first [TIME FRAME REMOVED TO PREVENT CONFUSION] of the game you spend chasing a character that you had a bad relationship with. I wholeheartedly agree that 3's story was C- minus work at best, but NV was still guilty of this to a degree. A much smaller one, but still noticeable. You're really annoying, and arguing for the sake of it while missing the point entirely. The fact that you're chasing a dude who shot you in the face does not contradict anything I'm saying. Your character's origin, back story, experience and goals are not tied to the fact that Benny shot you in the face. You don't even have to acknowledge the fact that that happened once you gain control of your character. What point are you trying to make, exactly?
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Aug 9, 2015 04:58
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Meridian posted:Bethesda obviously had their narrative thing going on and I get that, but it wasn't introduced very well and wasn't particularly compelling throughout that quest line. I am saying New Vegas is better in that respect because you don't start off the game with character relationships dictated to you. Yeah this was always a cool part of New Vegas, until Lonesome Road and Ulysses happened
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Aug 9, 2015 04:58
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Alain Post posted:The PC doesn't know any more about Benny than the player does. Finding out why Benny shot the PC over a tiny trinket is like, the entire narrative hook of the game. Did you have amnesia at the start? I honestly forget.
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Aug 9, 2015 05:00
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Meridian posted:You're really annoying, and arguing for the sake of it while missing the point entirely. I'm pretty sure his entire shitposting ~thing~ is that NV was terrible and FO3 was much better, but I could be mistaking him for any number of others that were doing this same thing in this thread.
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Aug 9, 2015 05:00
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