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I think the problem with Cyberpunk is that a significant part of the genre is gear-porn, which doesn't mesh well with rules light systems. I mean what's the point of having a tricked out On-Sendai Cyber-7 and Zeiss cyber-eyes when it doesn't give me any real advantage over that chump with a cheap Z-Tech 2000 and a pair of surplus night vision goggle? As much as I dislike the Shadowrun and CP2020 mechanics, they both get the gear-porn aspect of the genre right. I think for a good Cyberpunk game you need a mid-point between granular crunch-tacular nonsense and rules light.
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Aug 9, 2015 07:55
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I'm looking forward to seeing the Band of Blades and Blades Against the Darkness hacks for Blades in the Dark for use in Dungeon Crawl games. I think its a much better fit for the genre than ApocWorld from which it descended. personally I think Cyberpunk needs at least some crunchiness to really work, of course I'll admit my preferences for systems is for them to have at least some crunchiness, extremely rules-light games I can't really wrap my head around(last time I tried to read FATE, which was admittedly a couple years ago, got a headache not very long into reading it), not to mention they just feel bland again though that's just my opinion
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Aug 9, 2015 08:00
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Well, Blades can do "gear porn" to some extent, in that there is a variety of items that players can choose to bring on scores and they have a limited capacity and quality is also a factor. Granted its not detailed in a "Uzi III vs AK-2000" sorta way. Also, some of that poo poo (especially cybernetics) could just be moves IMO. It definitely works better for Blades than *World. There are several cyberpunk hacks for *world and they're all bad IMO beacuse they try to emulate previous Cyberpunk RPGs and thus fall into the same trap as Dungeon World.
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Aug 9, 2015 08:04
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IT BEGINS posted:I suppose I was thinking 'interesting' instead of 'interesting mechanically'. Coming from a decade of 3.X, I'm welcoming the ability to describe things starting with the narrative rather than a mechanic. I also can't think of a system that has mechanically complex combat while still pushing the narrative first. You should check out The Burning Wheel. It has a really simple base system but it builds really complex subsystems on top of it, so even though there are simpler ways to deal with random scraps where nothing important is at stake once a character's beliefs are on the line you're supposed to break out the Fight! system, which is scripted combat where the participants plan ahead three actions at a time and then they're resolved in order according to how they interact with each other. Ultimately thought, the game isn't about being "Complex Combat System the Game," but about playing characters according to their beliefs, instincts and traits so as to get a compelling narrative.
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Aug 9, 2015 09:05
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grassy gnoll posted:I think it's time we found a new system to port to any genre or play experience. The d20 years nearly killed the hobby, *World is cliche. Seriously I'd love handfulls of dice multiple success to be the new standard. Single channel results are for losers. IT BEGINS posted:I suppose I was thinking 'interesting' instead of 'interesting mechanically'. Coming from a decade of 3.X, I'm welcoming the ability to describe things starting with the narrative rather than a mechanic. I also can't think of a system that has mechanically complex combat while still pushing the narrative first. e: also mouseguard would fit the dungeons and redwalls descriptions from earlier. Splicer fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 10:36
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Bucnasti posted:I think the problem with Cyberpunk is that a significant part of the genre is gear-porn, which doesn't mesh well with rules light systems. I mean what's the point of having a tricked out On-Sendai Cyber-7 and Zeiss cyber-eyes when it doesn't give me any real advantage over that chump with a cheap Z-Tech 2000 and a pair of surplus night vision goggle? Definitely agree with that, its why I've personally had such a problem with running them in the past...I hate the systems in games like Shadowrun but there is a certain "feel" that's lost converting it to something like FATE, PDQ or any of my other favorite lighter systems. That's why Savage Worlds is one of my favorite games. It's got juuuuust enough granularity that I feel like it can handle things but the system is a lot more approachable. Of course, downside is you have to then create a 97 page long full conversion...but I've never let that stop me.
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Aug 9, 2015 10:44
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Splicer posted:I'll be running a Torchbearer campaign starting this week and while I haven't had a chance to play yet so far the mechanics are hitting a lot of good buttons. It's based on burning wheel and gently caress you Ratpick with your lovely four post new page. I'll be posting noob questions and game reports in our shiny new thread. Yeah, Torchbearer owns too. To me the difference between whether I'd want to play Burning Wheel or Torchbearer is a matter of scope. For dungeon-crawling there's really nothing better than Torchbearer, while Burning Wheel is really good for games with a wider focus. That said, I much prefer Torchbearer's generalized conflict system to Burning Wheel's specialized subsystems for everything approach, but I get that Luke Crane likes his complex games and Torchbearer is more Thor's baby.
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Aug 9, 2015 11:38
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Splicer posted:The time of [Genre] Patrol is now! I really liked running Danger Patrol, but had issues when the players were not comfortable with directing the narrative. Dungeon World helped in that the GM can take a lot more control when necessary to help prod things along mechanically. So while I'm not as excited at the prospect of playing Dungeon World any more, I still jump at the chance to run it, especially for players new to TRPGs or whose only experience is d20/pf.
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Aug 9, 2015 13:05
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dungeon world isn't great but it's a far better game than that fool dude is a poster
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Aug 9, 2015 15:21
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Captain Foo posted:dungeon world isn't great but it's a far better game than that foo dude is a poster
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Aug 9, 2015 15:47
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Captain Foo posted:dungeon world isn't great but it's a far better game than that fool dude is a poster YOSPOS, bitch.
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Aug 9, 2015 15:48
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Nit-pick: I know what people are intending here when they say "granular", but this is ambiguous usage. All abstractions have granularity - a degree to which they are broken into grains - it is more descriptive to say whether that granularity is fine-grained or coarse-grained. Even a phrase like "more granular" can be ambiguous -some people mean bigger grains (more chunky) while some mean more grains (more finely divided). Saying fine or coarse removes the ambiguity.
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Aug 9, 2015 15:51
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Oh hey, apparently I stirred things up a bit by accident. I just want to clear up that have nothing against Adam Koebel personally. I simply meant that he never made anything I think is great. Dungeon World is pretty good and the best parts are the parts that are closest to Apocalypse World. There is nothing actively terrible about it in my opinion, but neither is it good enough to make me excited about his other projects in the way I am about Luke Crane or Vincent Baker. If this Rat Queens game turns out awesome, I'll get hype about his next game. Obviously this is a matter of taste and people are excited by different things. I don't think anyone needs to take my tastes as gospel. As for specific complaints about DW, I don't have any that haven't already been expressed in my absence.
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Aug 9, 2015 16:16
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I'm looking forward to seeing the Band of Blades and Blades Against the Darkness hacks for Blades in the Dark for use in Dungeon Crawl games. I think its a much better fit for the genre than ApocWorld from which it descended. Technoir is pretty good!
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Aug 9, 2015 16:22
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Aug 9, 2015 16:26
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Are there games that experiment with, or straight-up use, a method of character creation in which you only define your stats/skills/etc in the spur of the moment? That is, you can possibly start the game with half or more of your "skill points" unallocated and then you're only supposed to invest them when you see that you need to? Paolomania posted:Nit-pick: I know what people are intending here when they say "granular", but this is ambiguous usage. All abstractions have granularity - a degree to which they are broken into grains - it is more descriptive to say whether that granularity is fine-grained or coarse-grained. Even a phrase like "more granular" can be ambiguous -some people mean bigger grains (more chunky) while some mean more grains (more finely divided). Saying fine or coarse removes the ambiguity. I learned something today! Thank you
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Aug 9, 2015 16:28
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Aug 9, 2015 16:30
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If I remember right, Heroquest 2 uses that as one of the Character creation options.
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Aug 9, 2015 16:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:Are there games that experiment with, or straight-up use, a method of character creation in which you only define your stats/skills/etc in the spur of the moment? It's not the character creation method for it, but Fate Core proposes exactly this as one of the character creation methods. You start with just your High Concept and maybe a Trouble and your peak skill defined, and the rest you fill up as it the situation arises, filling up your yet-to-be-undefined skill and aspect slots.
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Aug 9, 2015 16:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:Are there games that experiment with, or straight-up use, a method of character creation in which you only define your stats/skills/etc in the spur of the moment? I know I've seen a game (not FATE) do this to some extent with skill choices, but I can't seem to remember which one it was now. remusclaw posted:If I remember right, Heroquest 2 uses that as one of the Character creation options. This might have been it.
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Aug 9, 2015 16:32
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gradenko_2000 posted:Are there games that experiment with, or straight-up use, a method of character creation in which you only define your stats/skills/etc in the spur of the moment? In Cortex+ you only fill out about half your character sheet before the first session with the remainder completed during play. The other players also get to define a few of your traits.
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Aug 9, 2015 16:38
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remusclaw posted:If I remember right, Heroquest 2 uses that as one of the Character creation options. Ah ha! Thank you! The high level of abstraction in that game even fits with the dungeon crawler concept I had earlier. The wheels are a'turnin'
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Aug 9, 2015 17:03
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I should dig my Heroquest book out and give it another read, I can't remember much about it. I should also reread my Sartar Kingdom of Heroes book because Glorantha is  .
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Aug 9, 2015 17:36
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Simian_Prime posted:So, change of topic: Been watching The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. lately: Any good Wild West RPG's that aren't Deadlands? I keep hearing about Aces and Eights. The combat is supposed to be quite lethal.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:17
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The shot clock and silhouette gun fights are a lot of fun and there are a lot of things done as mini games like bar brawls and mining. It uses randomly rolled D&D stats and a kind of reversed percentile system for skills. It also has the seemingly inescapable and to my mind totally unnecessary alternate history that means the Confederacy still exists and the U.S is all broken up. The presentation is beautiful though, especially if you get a first edition hardcover.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 19:22
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gradenko_2000 posted:Are there games that experiment with, or straight-up use, a method of character creation in which you only define your stats/skills/etc in the spur of the moment? Ruin, Ross Payton (clockworkjoe)'s in development architectural horror game, is planned to be like this according to the last RPPR podcast.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:23
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Helical Nightmares posted:architectural horror
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Aug 9, 2015 20:03
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Splicer posted:You can't say something like this and then just leave it there. Lemme guess, It's like House of Leaves?
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Aug 9, 2015 20:42
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I think this thread really needs to get back on track.
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Aug 9, 2015 21:00
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remusclaw posted:The shot clock and silhouette gun fights are a lot of fun and there are a lot of things done as mini games like bar brawls and mining. It uses randomly rolled D&D stats and a kind of reversed percentile system for skills. It also has the seemingly inescapable and to my mind totally unnecessary alternate history that means the Confederacy still exists and the U.S is all broken up. The presentation is beautiful though, especially if you get a first edition hardcover. Ugh. For once I'd like to see a Western setting where the Civil War proceeded pretty much the way it did in history and there's no Confederate presence. One of the great things about the Brisco County Jr setting is that there is a certain amount of racial and gender equality baked into it; women can become bounty hunters, and blacks can be respected businessmen, and nobody seems to think there's anything amiss. (Largely because it's a 90's TV show, but I'd like to retain that aspect in an RPG) If they have to go the alternate history route, make a setting where Lincoln escaped assassination and the Union followed through with the promises of Reconstuction. A setting with a more stable postwar South, where Jim Crow never got an chance and the cause of civil rights got pushed ahead, would actually be great to see.
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Aug 9, 2015 21:14
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What's wrong with the Confederacy existing? As long as it doesn't delve on Lost Cause myths they are pretty much the perfect bad guy government to have the players fight against.
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Aug 9, 2015 21:20
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:What's wrong with the Confederacy existing? As long as it doesn't delve on Lost Cause myths they are pretty much the perfect bad guy government to have the players fight against. There's nothing *wrong* with it, it's just boring and cliche at this point. Besides, if your group is a bunch of rebel outlaws, the perfect bad guy government is "whatever government you happen to be living under."
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Aug 9, 2015 21:23
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The Western is a staple in American society, and I would say Hollywood has managed to do just fine throughout most of its history in coming up with stories and antagonists for them without the conceit of an independent South.
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Aug 9, 2015 21:23
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remusclaw posted:The Western is a staple in American society, and I would say Hollywood has managed to do just fine throughout most of its history in coming up with stories and antagonists for them without the conceit of an independent South.
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Aug 9, 2015 21:24
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It's just that an entire nation of Leonardo de Caprio bad dudes on Django Unchained is a cool idea for antagonists imo 
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Aug 9, 2015 21:32
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They didn't all die in the war. It's not like assholes stopped being assholes or stopped taking advantage of the people they used to own. Things just got more complicated in the relationship. gently caress, ending the war gives you the KKK, and as a group of acceptable villains you can feel good about killing only the Nazis give them a run for their money. It does pay to remember that one thing Hollywood has always been very bad about was how diverse the west actually was, what with many cowboys being of Black or Hispanic descent. One I watched a bit back on TCM that was good in that regard, as well as having a woman as its protagonist was "Thomasine & Bushrod". 70s and a bit Blaxploitation, but pretty fun. E: There is also the Orc babies problem with plantation owners, with the KKK you generally avoid that. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 21:40
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Ratpick posted:You should check out The Burning Wheel. Splicer posted:I'll be posting noob questions and game reports in our shiny new thread. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely be keeping my eye on that thread. It's a shame for so many years D&D was really the only TRPG most players had ever played/considered playing. My players have long wanted a less complex system that didn't take hours to resolve simple combats but sort of just assumed that that's how all TRPGs are.
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Aug 9, 2015 21:42
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remusclaw posted:The shot clock and silhouette gun fights are a lot of fun and there are a lot of things done as mini games like bar brawls and mining. It uses randomly rolled D&D stats and a kind of reversed percentile system for skills. It also has the seemingly inescapable and to my mind totally unnecessary alternate history that means the Confederacy still exists and the U.S is all broken up. The presentation is beautiful though, especially if you get a first edition hardcover. We saw them demonstrating the shot clock/silhouette thing in a demo, and assumed they were like a gaming accoutrement producer, and were like "omg! We will take like ten of those, these are perfect for Deadlands." Then of course we found out they were not stand-alone and you only got one of them even when you purchased the full hardback $60? edition of the Aces & Eights book and our dreams would cost hundreds of dollars. And then we read Aces & Eights and found out it was literally just "a western." And that is the astounding story of how we wanted to throw money at them and instead have never given them any. Is Aces & Eights actually fun at all, or is it just an incomprehensibly dense minimum-frills western game?
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Aug 9, 2015 22:16
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It's important to note that of all the hundreds of movies and TV shows made in the Western genre, approx. 0 have been made in a setting where the Confederacy won the war. It's only tabletop RPGs that seem to have this weird fetish for a Southern victory.
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Aug 9, 2015 22:20
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The Confederacy is a fine badguy group imo. They are the perfect group of completely-evil bastards for your players to kill without remorse. They're the old west equivalent of Nazis or zombies. But in terms of the world, I'm tired of this "what if the South had won/stalled out the war" bullshit which is too often Lost Cause historical revisionism dressed up like alt-history.
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Aug 9, 2015 22:21
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