|
That does make perfect sense for a franchise trying to transition into a new setting, but it still feels like, I dunno, killing off Batman to introduce New Spandex Crime Fight Guy. (I realize I only know this material because of the game, in which Jack is a very important character, so my opinion is biased, but ehhh) Did the transition at least introduce a bunch of new and interesting characters? e: This is a super boring top-of-page post so here's one of my favorite images from this game  anime tupac fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Jun 12, 2015 |
#
?
Jun 12, 2015 10:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 20:00 |
|
|
anime tupac posted:3. Wikipedia Link Syndrome led me from article to article until I wound up reading the plot of Gehenna: The Final Night. Spoilers I guess if anyone gives a poo poo Smiling Jack gets killed by some random Beckett follower who used to be a decent guy and then went insane at some point? As do many other prominent characters? I'll grant I don't know anything about this setting but that seems kinda drastic edit: quote:Did the transition at least introduce a bunch of new and interesting characters?
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2015 10:41
|
|
|
Zephro posted:One of the things you gotta remember about VTM (and one of the things I really like about it, and miss from the the new setting) is that it's full of late-90s millenarianism, so a drastic conclusion to the metaplot is basically inevitable. The book that ended the setting presents four different Gehenna scenarios. The least apocalyptic ends with every single vampire in the world dead directly by God's hand, with the possible exception of the PCs if they've grabbed their One-Off, No Refunds Chance for Salvation™. The silliest version is an Antediluvian Battle Royale that ends up with every scrap of organic matter on the planet becoming part of [Tzimisce] and the planet itself becoming [Gangrel], and even if you manage to thwart [Tzimisce] 99% of the globe's population is dead. Don't forget the scenario that ends in a literal backalley brawl between Lilith, Caine, Abel, Lucifer and a bunch of Antediluvians.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2015 23:32
|
|
|
Yeah, they basically said "lets rework and streamline the systems so they actually work, divest ourselves of this gargantuan metaplot, and as a celebratory measure, fire ALL the checkhov's guns in a final cash grab for the old setting. Then let's get acquired by a bunch of rotten shark eating icelanders, jerked around a bunch, then form another company so we can license our own IP back to make more books." I may have extrapolated a bit there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2015 23:55
|
|
|
I still rather enjoy the Kemintiri end-of-the-world plotline, largely because it ends on such a petty power-gaming move. It's not enough that she's a true 4th-gen setite with a grudge against everything, which is a silly thing to have in an adventure to begin with, she also has to humiliate everyone involved. Using the same three-dot thaumaturgical power that, very probably, some of the player characters started with, she lowers her generation… by three steps, and effectively becomes Caine. Flash to white as godly stuff happens. Anyone who lives does so because she has written them off as irrelevant. It's almost as if the whole thing is written in reference to what some annoying player has done… 
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
anime tupac posted:2. The Salubri seem awesome, do they have any future in whatever the new setting is, or do they kinda die out, as the Final Nights wiki entry seems to suggest they will? There's no real room for the Salubri in Requiem. Golconda is kind of their whole deal, and the official version of it in Requiem is a Gangrel thing that's basically the opposite of what it was in Masquerade.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2015 00:53
|
|
|
Republican Vampire posted:There's no real room for the Salubri in Requiem. Golconda is kind of their whole deal, and the official version of it in Requiem is a Gangrel thing that's basically the opposite of what it was in Masquerade. What exactly is the Gangrel negaGolconda?
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2015 01:27
|
|
|
xanthan posted:What exactly is the Gangrel negaGolconda? Golconda, also called "The Red Surrender", is a kind of voluntary frenzy where a Gangrel basically shakes hands with the beast and lets it out to play. Rather than going berserk, he or she just goes extra feral and predatory while still retaining their consciousness. Penalties to mental skills, bonuses to combat and animal ken. It's supposed to be an extremely addictive high. It's way less cool than Requiem's reworking of Malkavians (psychic vampire AIDS) but the clanbooks were pretty hit and miss that way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2015 02:19
|
|
|
I feel like some people have argued that Hollywood is too small or short (I might be misremembering) but I really like it. The quest that gradually leads you to the Tzimisce place is one of my favorites, I normally just yawn at games' attempts to pull my strings but the increasingly creepy 8mm detective vibe, culminating in the horrible flesh house, actually managed it for me. e: actually I have a question Zephro posted:One of the things you gotta remember about VTM (and one of the things I really like about it, and miss from the the new setting) is that it's full of late-90s millenarianism, so a drastic conclusion to the metaplot is basically inevitable. The book that ended the setting presents four different Gehenna scenarios. The least apocalyptic ends with every single vampire in the world dead directly by God's hand, with the possible exception of the PCs if they've grabbed their One-Off, No Refunds Chance for Salvation™. I also love that about it, but here's my question: is there anything canonical in Vampire about the various religions being ~true~? Like you mention that one doomsday scenario, and obviously there's a God, according to the setting, and also a Christian one, if all Western vampires descend from the biblical Cain(e). But then if that's true, are there other canon explanations set aside for the Kuei-Jin, who come from perverted versions of the Ten Thousand Heroes or whatever? I know I'm mangling the details here, but I'm basically just asking if the setting definitively comes down on sourcing vampires to various religions or if it leaves it all ambiguous. edit 2: I'm a huge voice acting snob and VA being good is way more important to me than it seems to be for most people; that said, Gary's VA is loving awesome. I don't know why it didn't strike me the first time but I'm only noticing how good it is now. Even when the lines could easily be cheesy, he delivers them so well. I've never even heard of the guy but his absolute disdain for the PC just seeps out in everything he says. Somehow, impossibly, he was the Codex Narrator in the ME games, which I just can't reconcile with his lizardlike Gary voice. anime tupac fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jun 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2015 08:08
|
|
|
Been playing quite a bit lately, and I have to admit this game is a loving blast. I'm playing with a wizard vampire with a bunch of persuasion points and so far things have been going smoothly; I only checked a guide once because I went back to Isaac to ask him about Ginger Swan and the door was locked so I had no idea what to do. Of course then I realized I was trying the front door instead of the side one. Welp.. I'm having so much fun I'm already planning a Malk run and maaaaaybe a Nosferatu to see how different the whole "people can't see you" plays. Having said that, the Nosferatu sewers can go suck a god drat dick, between the 118a pump room and the areas after that that are filled with those loving woman human centipede things that take a trillion shots to kill (or 2 blood strike hits but hey, there's no blood to be had other than rats, and there are more of those cunts than rats). That was the least fun I've had with the game so far, but looks like it's over now, I just got to the Nosferatu "town").
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2015 19:55
|
|
|
Nosferatu run really isn't that fun. Taking the sewers gets old.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2015 20:02
|
|
|
It's one of the worst sewer levels in the history of sewer levels so your hatred isn't without merit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2015 20:03
|
|
|
Republican Vampire posted:Golconda, also called "The Red Surrender", is a kind of voluntary frenzy where a Gangrel basically shakes hands with the beast and lets it out to play. Rather than going berserk, he or she just goes extra feral and predatory while still retaining their consciousness. Penalties to mental skills, bonuses to combat and animal ken. It's supposed to be an extremely addictive high. Forgot about this thread for a bit but I must ask, psychic vampire AIDS? Sorry for the slight derail into Requiem stuff.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
xanthan posted:Forgot about this thread for a bit but I must ask, psychic vampire AIDS? Sorry for the slight derail into Requiem stuff. After backlash against the core rulebook's version of Malkavians, WW wrote up a new version for the Ventrue Clanbook. It's a blood disease that's pretty clearly styled on HIV in some respects. Functionally it's like a secondary bloodline, but there's a bunch of stuff about how it spreads (like blood-sharing for erotic or narcotic purposes), the volume of misconceptions about how it's spread, and so on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2015 00:13
|
|
|
Khizan posted:Nosferatu run really isn't that fun. Taking the sewers gets old. You can move around on the streets, as long as you don't get too close to the NPCs. The trigger range is fairly small.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2015 00:15
|
|
|
Tippis posted:I still rather enjoy the Kemintiri end-of-the-world plotline, largely because it ends on such a petty power-gaming move. If you look at game rules in general you can just tell that there are random rules put in there because some player asked "but what if I...?" In the case of Vampire I kind of wonder if The Masquerade itself as well as how frequently useless combat-related stuff is came about because of an inherent flaw in the setting. Vampires are nigh unkillable death machines. I just assumed that in some early version the players just ran rampant doing whatever they wanted but the person running the game was like "knock that poo poo off. Here is a reason." Granted running a game and seeing how people snap it in half is the best way to see what does in fact need capped somehow and The Masquerade is actually a cool way of doing that. Somebody probably asked "but what if a really low generation vampire lowers their generation further?" Somebody else probably asked "but what if X power could be used to do Y by a ludicrously powerful vampire?" The other issue was that they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with the setting as a whole. It starts with "the stories in the Bible are partly true, Caine and Abel were real people, and God is unhappy with the world. By the way, Armageddon is coming and you can't stop it." The whole "very terrible things are going to happen to you" thing was a central theme of Vampire. Vampires themselves were strongly focused on avoiding Those Bad Things but also knew, deep down inside, that their efforts were fruitless and irrelevant. They were totally, completely, and absolutely hosed no matter what they did. The whole setting was bleak as hell and that's really why it worked as it did. Other times it becomes awesome. Battletech has the best example of that. "Wait, mechs can jump? What happens if I jump on another mech?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2015 11:44
|
|
|
True enough. I seem to recall that the VtM Players' Guide had a chapter on that whole problem. They were discussing the “general framework” design of the storyteller system and how the GM and players should work to make a good story, and how to fudge rules in an interesting way. The example they used was the classic player question “how much damage does a motorcycle do?” VtM wasn't designed to be a combat action game, and yet, inevitably, someone will ask what happens if you do a burnout on a vampire elder's face.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2015 13:22
|
|
|
I just got a new laptop that can actually handle games, the OP is kind of old, are there any mods aside from the Clan Quest pack that I should be looking into? I am so pumped to finally play this again after so many years.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 06:17
|
|
|
Soonmot posted:I just got a new laptop that can actually handle games, the OP is kind of old, are there any mods aside from the Clan Quest pack that I should be looking into? I am so pumped to finally play this again after so many years. No. Seriously, nothing has improved since the OP was written, other than a few iterations of the fan patch.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 06:19
|
|
|
Steam has an article on antitribu clans, is this worth grabbing?
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 06:24
|
|
|
Alright, finished the game. I really really liked it, but it goes a little combat-heavy once you hit Chinatown. I'm going to lose my cred and admit I turned on god mode for a few of the later fights (like Ming Xiao's goop form), but other than that it went well. Now, I was reading some random stuff about the game and I came across something about Heather: she's supposed to give me an armour, be kidnapped by Sabbat and then die in hallowbrook? That didn't happen in my game, she never showed up in Hallbrook and I did talk to her quite a few times in my haven (both in the first haven and the tremere pad in Strauss' building) but other than the "Master I brought you a dude" I never got any other interactions, just the "gimme blood" and "change your clothing" options.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 06:44
|
|
|
Edmond Dantes posted:Alright, finished the game. I really really liked it, but it goes a little combat-heavy once you hit Chinatown. I'm going to lose my cred and admit I turned on god mode for a few of the later fights (like Ming Xiao's goop form), but other than that it went well. You have to talk to Heather after doing the Society of Leopold but before getting the Hallowbrook quest from Lacroix, otherwise nothing will happen. I think there's a few things with Heather that only happen if you talk to her at very specific times.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 13:19
|
|
|
why aren't you always talking to Heather don't you think about how lonely she must be 
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 14:47
|
|
|
Right, so I launched the game and noticed the version number said 8.8 and I knew I had the unofficial patch installed, so I checked and yeah, you have to launch from the patch's shortcut and not the steam launcher. I beat the game with the unofficial patch installed but didn't actually use it.  Cantaloupe posted:You have to talk to Heather after doing the Society of Leopold but before getting the Hallowbrook quest from Lacroix, otherwise nothing will happen. I think there's a few things with Heather that only happen if you talk to her at very specific times. Remora posted:why aren't you always talking to Heather I did talk to her a bunch of times, but since I kept getting the same options after the first "master, dobby brought you a hooman!" I stopped checking all the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
Edmond Dantes posted:Right, so I launched the game and noticed the version number said 8.8 and I knew I had the unofficial patch installed, so I checked and yeah, you have to launch from the patch's shortcut and not the steam launcher. You are so inconsiderate of your blood-bound sycophant's emotional and physical needs. Shame on you. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 15:49
|
|
|
Republican Vampire posted:Golconda, also called "The Red Surrender", is a kind of voluntary frenzy where a Gangrel basically shakes hands with the beast and lets it out to play. Rather than going berserk, he or she just goes extra feral and predatory while still retaining their consciousness. Penalties to mental skills, bonuses to combat and animal ken. It's supposed to be an extremely addictive high.  This isn't entirely correct. The core book gives something like an outline if not outright rules about what 'real' Golconda would look like and even some suggestions on how to achieve it. The Red Surrender, as presented in the Gangrel book, isn't the 'real' Golconda any more than any of the other suggested alternative Goldondas are. In fact, that's one of the things that's kind of unique about Requiem; there are a lot of competing theories that are allowed to be simultaneously true, because there's no metasetting. Of more direct interest to this thread: Onyx Path is publishing a 4th Edition of the Vampire: the Masquerade!
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 16:42
|
|
|
Mendrian posted:Of more direct interest to this thread: Onyx Path is publishing a 4th Edition of the Vampire: the Masquerade! Here's to hoping it wouldn't take much work to convert it to nWoD rules. Or that they don't gently caress it up like they did Beast.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 17:29
|
|
|
Edmond Dantes posted:I beat the game with the unofficial patch installed but didn't actually use it. Sounds like an easy problem to fix. And really don't worry about cheating. Unclipping was one of my favorite tools for moving through the hubs. Not to mention skipping the sewer level each time. Bonus points for second playthrough, you can start to make sense of the malk's ramblings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 17:39
|
|
|
Brainamp posted:Sounds like an easy problem to fix. And really don't worry about cheating. Unclipping was one of my favorite tools for moving through the hubs. Not to mention skipping the sewer level each time. Yup, I'm making a dementation/intimidation malk (I used persuasion a lot last playthrough, might go for seduction instead of intimidation) to see how it goes. Too bad you get screwed on a couple weapons and the lockpick if you skip the tutorial though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
Soonmot posted:Steam has an article on antitribu clans, is this worth grabbing? Ahahahahahaha I think this LP should answer your question. tldr = no no no no nonononononononononNONONONONONONONO not unless you're doing it to see just how bad and mod-y a mod can be, it's like a Quake 1 mod with all the goofy bullshit it crams in there for no reason. Highlights include having to spend more time in the sewers, having to spend time in a NEW sewer section, lovely platforming, and an absolute truckload of wildly unbalanced combat shoehorned into places where it doesn't belong (in a game where the combat is the weakest part) which includes making Grout's wife into a boss. Also everyone wears football pads. Honestly the new clans/powers look like they could be fun if you could just play with those and not have to deal with all the other poo poo they threw in. I remember The Final Nights mod adding new clans/powers while also having a relatively light touch with regards to the amount of other stuff they changed, but it's been awhile since I played that one so maybe it's just as terrible.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 19:16
|
|
|
Brainamp posted:Bonus points for second playthrough, you can start to make sense of the malk's ramblings. Ahahaha, holy poo poo, I got to the seer at the beach and my PC is already spoiling the game. I think people freaking the gently caress out I'm a Malk will never get old. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 19:30
|
|
|
Malk playthroughs are fun as hell. Its pretty great just the sheer amount of exasperation you'll hear when most characters realize you're a loving malkavian.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 19:39
|
|
|
Edmond Dantes posted:Ahahaha, holy poo poo, I got to the seer at the beach and my PC is already spoiling the game. I think people freaking the gently caress out I'm a Malk will never get old. I think some of the writing for Malk felt a bit too monkeycheese at times, but the parts of the game that portrayed them as insane mystics that either freaked people out or just really annoyed them (The several times where people when they first meet you are just like, "Ugh, you're a Malk, aren't you?") were great. Also the first time I heard the voices legit creeped me out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 19:43
|
|
|
Brainamp posted:Malk playthroughs are fun as hell. Its pretty great just the sheer amount of exasperation you'll hear when most characters realize you're a loving malkavian. The best moment is right out of the gate. "Thrown out here like a naked baby in the woods and you're Malkavian? You're hosed."
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 19:53
|
|
|
ToxicSlurpee posted:The best moment is right out of the gate. "Thrown out here like a naked baby in the woods and you're Malkavian? You're hosed." The sheer glee with which he delivers that line is amazing as well. Brainamp posted:Malk playthroughs are fun as hell. Its pretty great just the sheer amount of exasperation you'll hear when most characters realize you're a loving malkavian. Accordion Man posted:The best is freaking out Ming-Xiao because a Malk PC sees right through her. So far this is fun as hell; it feels the Malk PC has already played the game and isn't outright spoiling everything out of respect for the player, but is having a blast dropping hints all over the place, like the first meeting with Jeanette, or the phone call with the guy from the modelling job saying "you have a nice way of... dissecting the language".
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 21:38
|
|
|
Accordion Man posted:The best is freaking out Ming-Xiao because a Malk PC sees right through her. Yeah I only lasted a few conversations in to my malk run because it felt like a nerd doing Monty python voices at me. The stop sign conversation sounds brilliant though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
I loved the amount of foreshadowing in the Malkavian dialogue. Hell, when you first meet Jack in the alley there's a "BOOM!" dialogue option.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 22:26
|
|
|
Accordion Man posted:The best is freaking out Ming-Xiao because a Malk PC sees right through her. I think the best part of that spoilered character is casually dropping "Yama Kings" like it ain't no thing, and the reaction (unless that's what you meant). On the "insane mystic" thing, the first time you meet VV in LA and have the option to call her by her real name is one of my favorite examples of that. Gorgeous Gary is one of the few characters who isn't annoyed at you just for being a Malkavian, and it's pretty refreshing (and hilarious).
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2015 23:12
|
|
|
gently caress, I just wanted viscisitude and obtenebration. Ow well, nor add if this game doesn't have nor than enough to keep me occupied. I don't think I ever did a nosferatu run back in the day
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2015 00:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 20:00 |
|
|
Argh, I screwed myself off the Haven in downtown because I was flippant to the jester in the tower. Can I console it in somehow? I googled but didn't come up with anything
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2015 23:27
|
|