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Actually the HF torque wrenches are pretty famous on the internet for being both cheap and quite accurate. People have tested them. And he is writing a manual for the mechanics that will be working on his company's machines, so gudentight is really really not the right answer here...
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Aug 7, 2015 09:45
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Yeah, exactly. I was just using my HF wrenches as a general guide of the range to expect, not what the mechanics are going to be using. I was wondering if there's a rule of thumb. They're building a prototype now, so if anything is amiss, I'm sure I'll get yelled at in due time. And, this engine is larger than my entire VW... Uthor fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Aug 7, 2015 |
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Aug 7, 2015 11:50
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Uthor posted:High pressure fuel lines. Manufacturer calls for 15Nm (11ft-lb, 133in-lb) plus 60 degrees of rotation. I dunno, I didn't come up with those values. Maybe the Germans define meters differently? Might be better to stick with Nm? That's the beauty of metric, the thing it excels at. In Australia all pipe sizes and the diameter of most things are imperial still (wheels, exhausts, copper plumbing and HVAC pipe). But metric has it's place for small things, quick measurements etc When I did piping needing to be torqued I used a rothenberger open end spanner torque wrench. It goes down to 10Nm. http://www.rothenberger.com/en/products/-/89-torque-spanner-set-for-accurate-tightening-of-flare-nuts/ It wasn't supplied to me, I had to buy it or not get support from any manufacturers. But a regular torque wrench and crows foot could do the job I guess. Just keep it simple and keep it metric, it's not hard to read and set a number even if you have NFI what it means (like I don't when talking HVAC PSI pressures, or deg F with old timers - give me kPa and deg C any day) Fo3 fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Aug 7, 2015 |
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Aug 7, 2015 12:14
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Fo3 posted:Might be better to stick with Nm? This is the first time the customer is doing anything in metric, so all our drawings are being dual dimensioned. The Nm value will still be there. There's a mishmash of metric and imperial (new versus legacy components) that is super annoying, though at least 90% of the hardware is now metric.
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Aug 7, 2015 12:23
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Frank Dillinger posted:I can't think of any other thread to put this and I haven't found any good review sites: I'm needing a new pair of work boots/shoes. I work in a shop, concrete floors. I'd like them to be light and comfortable. Also important is that they be oil resistant and breathe well. My budget is up to 300$ or so, unless more gets me significantly better footwear. Fashion isn't super important, but if it matches dark blue and grey work clothes, that doesn't hurt either I like these, and they are made in Canada, which are basically a rip of Blundstones, and those aren't made in Australia anymore.
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Aug 7, 2015 13:46
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Uthor posted:This is the first time the customer is doing anything in metric, so all our drawings are being dual dimensioned. The Nm value will still be there. The only thing I hate more than this is when some chucklefuck takes it upon themselves to dimension everything in one system, even hardware built in the other system. M11.11x1.27 bolt, my rear end 
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Aug 7, 2015 14:45
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Speaking of Nm torque wrenches, I'm probably going to need one that does stuff in the 2-10 Nm range for my new carbon bike. Bike tool companies obviously have "bike specific" ones, but I figured there were probably better, cheaper option from other companies. So, anyone have recommendations?
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Aug 7, 2015 15:07
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kastein posted:The only thing I hate more than this is when some chucklefuck takes it upon themselves to dimension everything in one system, even hardware built in the other system. M11.11x1.27 bolt, my rear end 
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Aug 7, 2015 15:21
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That's 7/16-20 UNC but measured in millimeters. I have actually seen this done 
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Aug 7, 2015 17:12
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Yeah, that's why Australia isn't fully in metric. Nobody want to order 6.35mm, 12.7mm or 63.8mm or whatever tubing. The machines that make tubing still make them in 1/4", 1/2" and 2.5" and it's easier to keep thinking imperial for them. But for nominal values pulled from thin air, metric is easier in many ways.
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Aug 7, 2015 17:23
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kastein posted:That's 7/16-20 UNC but measured in millimeters. The correct procedure in this instance is to remove the engineer with a length of 101.6mm box section. Fo3 posted:Yeah, that's why Australia isn't fully in metric. Nobody want to order 6.35mm, 12.7mm or 63.8mm or whatever tubing. The machines that make tubing still make them in 1/4", 1/2" and 2.5" and it's easier to keep thinking imperial for them. But for nominal values pulled from thin air, metric is easier in many ways. I have an entec springs catalog on my desk at work, their metric selection is literally the imperial selection with the numbers converted, even the same part numbers. I ended up getting true metric springs from a Swedish company for a job I needed.
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Aug 7, 2015 18:42
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Further fun fact relating to idiotic dimensioning: all USDM vehicles contain at least 3 SAE 7/16-20 or 1/2-13 fasteners per seat. Why? Because USC 49 CFR 571.209 requires that by name rather than specifying a seatbelt fastener minimum shear or tension strength. It then goes on to specify all forces as wacky rear end numbers of newtons (40034N? WTF?) which just so happen to convert to even numbers (9000) of pounds force.  I bet they use the same SAE fasteners on other market vehicles too to simplify tooling and design. Sorry, rest of the world...
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Aug 7, 2015 19:33
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Slight derail: JH Williams hand tools. No better than HF, or worth the premium but still 1/3 the cost of Snap On? Just looking to upgrade a few key things like a few ratchets and sockets I use often and wondering if they might be a decent compromise. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007YREJRW/ref=pe_256750_146013440_em_1p_1_ti
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Aug 7, 2015 20:30
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Mercury Ballistic posted:Slight derail: JH Williams hand tools. Williams makes a lot of Snap-On's stuff, actually. I personally wouldn't be too excited about that one in particular, because it's 36-tooth. For that price point you might consider Armstrong's 88-tooth stuff? Although I suppose flex-head stuff tends to be more expensive.
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Aug 7, 2015 20:38
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Uthor posted:Yeah, exactly. I was just using my HF wrenches as a general guide of the range to expect, not what the mechanics are going to be using. The Navy (and therefore me) uses the 20-90% rule. The required torque must fall within 20-90% of the range of the torque wrench, or it's considered inaccurate.
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Aug 7, 2015 20:40
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Definite derail but linked from the Williams sockets: USMC themed sockets! What better way to say "Semper Fi" than by turning a wrench? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GPVJQ94?psc=1
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Aug 7, 2015 21:05
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Cakefool posted:The correct procedure in this instance is to remove the engineer with a length of 101.6mm box section. It's mildly annoying, and I'm of the opinion that you should use imperial values for an imperial design, but only really becomes a problem when the conversion makes the tolerances slightly different on something that's quite tight, so you may be getting a four-tenths-of-a-thou window that could have been five, had they not been trying to keep it in line with what the metric values round to, especially when you know it was five when it was originally designed with only imperial units on the drawing. kastein posted:Further fun fact relating to idiotic dimensioning: all USDM vehicles contain at least 3 SAE 7/16-20 or 1/2-13 fasteners per seat. Why? Because USC 49 CFR 571.209 requires that by name rather than specifying a seatbelt fastener minimum shear or tension strength.  "It's ok, we'll hide it by using metric-sized heads!"
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Aug 7, 2015 22:11
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InitialDave posted:
Torx or E-Torx are very common on seatbelts. And Seats.
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Aug 7, 2015 22:16
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I've seen a naive engineering student specify "M9.525-24 UNF" on a drawing, but he was from a totally metric country and had just been told by a gruff workshop technician that he needed a UNF thread on something. 
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Aug 7, 2015 22:26
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Picked some of these up for a couple of the lads at work, I'm not sure I'll ever personally need the precision but I might pick one up anyway. http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-optical-centre-punch
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Aug 7, 2015 22:30
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Uthor posted:This is the first time the customer is doing anything in metric, so all our drawings are being dual dimensioned. The Nm value will still be there. I may have mentioned this before, but this is super common on US made heavy equipment. Engines and hydraulic pumps/motors are all metric, but when the manufacturer assembles the rest of the machine they use all SAE hardware and measurements. Total pain in the rear end. At least they don't convert the head and thread sizes, and usually the service manuals give both torque values.
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Aug 8, 2015 05:17
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I've done a lot of work for a US manufacturer (psst, they paint their vehicles yellow) that was the opposite. Everything was metric, but a lot of their engines were legacy and had SAE threads. I rarely did anything with the engines themselves, but I encountered it when needing to attach something to existing threaded holes in the engine block.
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Aug 8, 2015 13:15
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CAT is still SAE. That's the same on trucks, a lot of the engines are SAE, the chassis is metric. Powerstroke: SAE, Ford: Metric. Thanfully, the DMax is an Isuzu-base, so I think it's all metric.
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Aug 8, 2015 14:57
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My company doesn't have a lot of CAT stuff so I don't really know about that, and I know John Deere shares a lot of their models with Hitachi, so their stuff tends to be all metric and also not made in USA. But companies like Genie, JLG (manlift/forklift manufacturers), Bobcat, Skyjack, as well as generator and compressor manufacturers all buy metric components and then assemble them into a frame using SAE fasteners. Engine mount brackets will have M12 bolts into the engine and 1/2" bolts into the frame. Maddening.
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Aug 8, 2015 17:12
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kastein posted:Actually the HF torque wrenches are pretty famous on the internet for being both cheap and quite accurate. People have tested them. Hell, man, that was in this very thread.  Cakefool posted:Picked some of these up for a couple of the lads at work, I'm not sure I'll ever personally need the precision but I might pick one up anyway. That's pretty fuckin' cool. Shame there's no magnet in the base, though. "And then hold it very tight", ugh.
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Aug 8, 2015 17:12
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They've got a cork/felt base, they grip on everything I've tried them on but a couple of magnets could be inserted into the base easily, good idea.
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Aug 8, 2015 17:16
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itsrobbiej posted:The Navy (and therefore me) uses the 20-90% rule. The required torque must fall within 20-90% of the range of the torque wrench, or it's considered inaccurate. They don't go to 100%? Is there a worry of over-torquing? Ours (Air Force) are spec'd from 20% to 100%. If it's accurate at 20-60-90 then it's going to be accurate at 100%.
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Aug 9, 2015 03:18
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I think my favorite example of fastener fuckery is probably jeeps. 4.0L XJ: every bolt going into the longblock is SAE Every bolt going into the intake manifold is metric though (and all the threaded hose barbs and stuff are NPT) All the bolts into the water pump are SAE Exhaust is SAE even though it was a new design for 91 Every bolt in the tcase is metric, but the driveshaft yoke nuts are SAE, as are the external fasteners that attach the tcase to the shift linkage and transmission Transmission is metric, as is everything at the trans end of the bellhousing. So you have a metric trans bolted to a metric tcase with 5/16 UNF-UNC studs and nuts. The best part though is the starter. It has one M10 bolt and one 3/8-16 bolt. The 3/8-16 bolt faces the metric transmission's bellhousing and the metric bolt goes into the starter snout. Oh, all the interior stuff is metric except the seatbelts and any self tapper screws used, which are SAE. The hold down bolts on a lot of big electrical connectors are SAE too, just... because. It is a real hardware hodgepodge. This is why people will sometimes say the upper row of manifold to head hardware is 9/16 head SAE and the lower row is 14mm head metric and no one even thinks twice, just accepts it without realizing that 9/16 and 14mm are close enough to be mistaken and all of them are actually 3/8-16 with a 9/16 head.
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Aug 9, 2015 14:11
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Hypnolobster posted:I'm really goddamn impressed with Gearwrench these days. I've got the set of the flex head 3 degree ratchets, and the 3/8 regular one. They're worlds better than the fine tooth SK that I bought a couple years ago. I'm really convinced that Kobalt and Gearwrench are really the way to rock for the basic tools.
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Aug 9, 2015 15:19
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Yeah, I love mine. The only time I can't use them is on really tight stuff like the JIS (smaller than normal heads) 14mm head M10 bolts holding some Aisin transmission case halves together. There just isn't enough space around the head to get a ratcheting pawl housing in there, no way around that.
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Aug 10, 2015 16:34
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I've been trialing the Pittsburgh ratcheting wrenches myself. I've only broken one so far and it's because it was thoroughly loving it by using it to hold the head of a bolt that I was using an impact tool on.
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Aug 10, 2015 16:36
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I love my ratcheting wrenches, but after I bought them I got them stuck at least 3 times while cranking a bolt out and bottoming the head against something else, trapping it on the bolt. I'm not smart sometimes.
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Aug 10, 2015 16:39
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Hypnolobster posted:I love my ratcheting wrenches, but after I bought them I got them stuck at least 3 times while cranking a bolt out and bottoming the head against something else, trapping it on the bolt. NP231 mounting studs + nuts are the reason why I now own 3 9/16 gearwrenches 
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Aug 10, 2015 17:10
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Hypnolobster posted:I love my ratcheting wrenches, but after I bought them I got them stuck at least 3 times while cranking a bolt out and bottoming the head against something else, trapping it on the bolt. That's why I love the ones with the switch to change direction rather than needing to flip it.
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Aug 10, 2015 17:37
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Sadi posted:That's why I love the ones with the switch to change direction rather than needing to flip it. Those are both more expensive, and require a slightly larger housing, which makes access worse.  That said, I wish I owned a set.
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Aug 10, 2015 17:45
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MRC48B posted:Those are both more expensive, and require a slightly larger housing, which makes access worse. I always scoff when people fawn over them in this thread and then I'll do a job where I wish I had one. The two places where I thought about it this weekend were for U-Joint straps where one would never ever fit, and for the 21ish bolts that hold on my fender, where one would be amazing. edit: ordered a 5 piece set from 3/8 to 5/8, my most common group of fasteners. Sometimes it feels like every bolt on the truck is 1/2". StormDrain fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 17:58
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^^ Ratcheting wrenches, especially the gear wrench stuff, are the best thing to happen to fasteners since the adoption of Metric. Unrelated, but I've been doing a lot of house work lately (new windows, etc) and I just have to say that this Werner multi position ladder is one of the best things I have ever bought. I seriously can't recommend this thing enough if you do any work on a ladder--it's incredibly versatile and you can straddle the top and use it like a scaffold, or like a telescoping ladder if you need to get up high. It's even surprisingly stable on uneven ground. Catatron Prime fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 20:07
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FYI, the Costco LED shop lights were on rebate $6 off each at my local Costco. Finally picked up four for the garage.
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Aug 10, 2015 20:23
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Oh speaking of those lights I saw Costco has long LED replacement flouro tubes too. Good option if you already have flourescent tubes in your garage/workshop.OSU_Matthew posted:^^ Ratcheting wrenches, especially the gear wrench stuff, are the best thing to happen to fasteners since the adoption of Metric. Nice, I actually just bought one of those in the 13 foot size this weekend and haven't had a chance to use it. I was a little annoyed spending $100 on a ladder, but it looked really well built and I can break it down to store in a closet when needed. mod sassinator fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 20:56
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IOwnCalculus posted:FYI, the Costco LED shop lights were on rebate $6 off each at my local Costco. Finally picked up four for the garage. Now if only UK Costco would have then at the same price as you all seem to get them. I'm stuck with 2 lovely fluorescents in my garage at the moment  I have a 1/2 clear garage roof so don't need lights for 50% of the year but I had to get up early today and I saw darkness for the first time since spring and it has reminded me what it is like!
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