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Genocide Tendency posted:No. It really doesn't. Also, there have been more than a few high profile killings by the NYPD inbthe last year or so. Seriously, its basically a dad joke made out of a slogan memorializing people killed by cops. It is in poor taste.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:14
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Genocide Tendency posted:No. It really doesn't. Raising money is fine, it's the coopting of another explicitly political movement that's being criticized.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:14
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Genocide Tendency posted:Raising money for kids who lost their father shouldn't be...politicized  That's why it's a lovely slogan.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:14
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lfield posted:You're missing the point on purpose. Everyone knows you're missing the point on purpose. You yourself must know it. Of course he knows it. He is open about being here to troll. Genocide Tendency posted:Blm is a loving joke and its members are the retarded cousins that actual Civil Rights/Police reform/Equality activists try to ignore and hope they don't gently caress up enough to detract from real work on equality. Genocide Tendency posted:Also, I pretty much told Exclamation Marx I would stay out of the police thread so I can't tell them that the cops should have gunned down that dude in Texas. Or that, armed or not, maybe that kid in Ferguson probably wouldn't have been shot if he wasn't hanging out in a gun fight. Watching the meltdown and thread closure (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 11, 2015 00:17
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Shukaro posted:Ferguson protesters have shut down I-70 near St. Louis. That's...well, it's disruptive, I'll give them that much. I can't see it persisting for a long time, though- and it seems pretty ad hoc. Who organized it/how long did it last?
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Aug 11, 2015 00:25
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Discendo Vox posted:That's...well, it's disruptive, I'll give them that much. I can't see it persisting for a long time, though- and it seems pretty ad hoc. Who organized it/how long did it last? Some angry person already drove through the crowd.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:25
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A Washington Post reporter has been issued a summons for trespassing last year, when Ferguson police threw him out of a McDonald's: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...b8b4_story.html Another reporter said he expected to receive a summons as well but hadn't yet (that other reporter is white, the one who got his summons already is black  )E: WaPo reporters currently face charges in Iran and St. Louis. Badger of Basra fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 00:30
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Badger of Basra posted:A Washington Post reporter has been issued a summons for trespassing last year, when Ferguson police threw him out of a McDonald's: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...b8b4_story.html That was such a bullshit episode. It doesn't surprise me that they waited a year to issue the summons, what does surprise me is that they actually did it.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:32
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DrNutt posted:You or Jarmak have still failed to make a salient point as to why it's acceptable to gun down an unarmed guy as an alternative to subduing him nonlethally. So far, we've got that it's theoretically possible for him to have killed the officers with his bare hands, that an officer might have sustained an injury, or that he was really black and scary. My point about 9/11 is that police will put their concern for their own safety aside to save lives, but only certain lives. A police officer being overtaken could have disastrous consequences for not only that officer, but the community in which the incident takes place. It is absolutely justified to shoot someone attacking an officer.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:36
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lfield posted:You're missing the point on purpose. Everyone knows you're missing the point on purpose. You yourself must know it. I'm not missing the point. I'm saying the point is loving stupid. It's a baseball team letting a charity raise money so some kids who lost their father can go to college. Getting lovely over the name of the charity is loving childish and bullshit. AreWeDrunkYet posted:Of course he knows it. He is open about being here to troll. About this? No. I firmly believe that people upset about this are loving stupid and wrong. I also firmly believe that blm is a loving joke. See them shutting down a Bernie Sanders rally. You know. Bernie Sanders, the guy who has done more for civil rights and equality than the entire collective membership of blm. They really are the black mans version of confederate flag supporters.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:41
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Genocide Tendency posted:I'm not missing the point. I'm saying the point is loving stupid. You're missing the point.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:44
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Lessail posted:You're missing the point. you might as well have said "nu uh!!!"
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Aug 11, 2015 00:45
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Cole posted:you might as well have said "nu uh!!!" Ya got me.... ya fukcin got me!
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Aug 11, 2015 00:48
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Judakel posted:A police officer being overtaken could have disastrous consequences for not only that officer, but the community in which the incident takes place. It is absolutely justified to shoot someone attacking an officer. Somehow American police have killed more people last month that the combined police forces of Western Europe in the last several years, yet there is no epidemic of disastrous consequences for those police forces or communities. It's almost as if the immediate jump to the use of lethal force in the United States isn't necessary. e: And counterproductive if the goal of policing is public safety. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 00:48
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Genocide Tendency posted:Raising money for kids who lost their father shouldn't be criticized AreWeDrunkYet posted:Raising money is fine, it's the coopting of another explicitly political movement that's being criticized. Genocide Tendency posted:Raising money for kids who lost their father shouldn't be criticized Repeat until GT is probated again. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 11, 2015 00:49
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Somehow American police have killed more people last month that the combined police forces of Western Europe in the last several years, yet there is no epidemic of disastrous consequences for those police forces or communities. It's almost as if the immediate jump to the use of lethal force in the United States isn't necessary. Well you'd need to control for features distinguishing your two samples. Different rates of gun ownership in the population at large would be a big one, off the top of my head.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:54
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Lessail posted:You're missing the point. Not agreeing with you is not missing the point. Not agreeing with the echo chamber is not missing the point. But keep saying that since you don't have anything to actually reply with but it still makes you angry that I'm not making GBS threads myself with white man guilt. lfield posted:Repeat until GT is probated again. t 
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Aug 11, 2015 01:00
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Please guys. Let's avoid the fundraiser topic. Please.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:02
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Genocide Tendency posted:Not agreeing with you is not missing the point. Not agreeing with the echo chamber is not missing the point. But keep saying that since you don't have anything to actually reply with but it still makes you angry that I'm not making GBS threads myself with white man guilt. You're missing the point
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Aug 11, 2015 01:07
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Discendo Vox posted:Well you'd need to control for features distinguishing your two samples. Different rates of gun ownership in the population at large would be a big one, off the top of my head. Sounds like a good argument for some meaningful gun control, eh?
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Aug 11, 2015 01:17
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Discendo Vox posted:Well you'd need to control for features distinguishing your two samples. Different rates of gun ownership in the population at large would be a big one, off the top of my head. The issue with just saying "People have guns, therefore American police are crazy and violent" is that shooting deaths of police officers are incredibly low compared to the number of officers and stops they perform. While the number of guns in civilian hands is often used as a means of justifying their pro-lethal force training, it has less to do with gun ownership and more to do with how police implement the tiny handful of officer deaths into their training. Incidents like the death of Kyle Dinkheller are shown in officer training as examples of how officers' failure to respond quickly to a lethal threat can be fatal. Not a problem if the lessons were simply "If a very mentally ill man is aiming a rifle at you, don't spend nearly a minute trying to scream until he drops it" or "Get backup and arrest people acting erratically or violently instead of letting them freely wander around and make threats until they can pull out a gun." But instead, the lessons taught are "You can be murdered by civilians any time, anywhere, even if you're not doing anything bad," and "If you even suspect your life is in danger, escalate to lethal force immediately." And of course, in many cases an officer's shaky justification for why they thought they were in danger is the only thing necessary to stave off investigation or even administrative punishment. Civilians with legally owned weapons are expected to completely justify any shootings they commit and face life-ruining penalties if they gently caress up and shoot someone who's not a threat (unless they're a prostitute refusing to gently caress you), while police are easily able to shoot someone for reaching into their pocket and face little to no consequences.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:31
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Sounds like a good argument for some meaningful gun control, eh? I agree fully. chitoryu12 posted:The issue with just saying "People have guns, therefore American police are crazy and violent" is that shooting deaths of police officers are incredibly low compared to the number of officers and stops they perform. While the number of guns in civilian hands is often used as a means of justifying their pro-lethal force training, it has less to do with gun ownership and more to do with how police implement the tiny handful of officer deaths into their training. Incidents like the death of Kyle Dinkheller are shown in officer training as examples of how officers' failure to respond quickly to a lethal threat can be fatal. I don't actually think american police are crazy and violent, though- I think the phenomena and training issues people are describing vary too much in different jurisdictions and agencies to permit such a broad reading.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:35
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Discendo Vox posted:I don't actually think american police are crazy and violent, though Debatable.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:42
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It's almost as if there is a training problem. You had a guy shot by a trainee in Texas. The senior officer had his tazer out. That's a problem. Why did the new guy put four rounds in someone when the guy who has been doing it for 19 years have a tazer. Obviously they let an idiot out with a gun before they had properly trained him to be responsible not only with a firearm but in handling a situation. Saying a cop murdered someone, implying malicious intent over incompetence prevents fixing the right issues. Again. Every stage of police policy/training/oversight needs to be addressed and there needs to be serious discussion about making meaningful changes.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:42
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Sounds like a good argument for some meaningful gun control, eh? Exactly. Disarm the police immediately.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:47
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Genocide Tendency posted:Saying a cop murdered someone, implying malicious intent over incompetence prevents fixing the right issues. The training comports with the law. There is no issue from your position.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:48
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jfood posted:The training comports with the law. There is no issue from your position. Except that I pointed out there was. Good job at not being able to read an entire post.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:52
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nm posted:And if they'd called it "slain officers fund" or something it would be fine. Calling it "blue lives matter" is basically an attempt to mock and profit off of the black liveatter campaign. And if you don't see that you're blind. It's not zero sum. In fact, the Righteous Indignation provoked will probably result in even greater fundraising for Black Lives Matter (and Free Mumia!). So, win-win. LeJackal posted:Exactly. Disarm the police immediately. Also, gently caress school and give me my allowance Immediately.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:54
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Genocide Tendency posted:Except that I pointed out there was. You didn't make a point, you missed it.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:57
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TheImmigrant posted:It's not zero sum. In fact, the Righteous Indignation provoked will probably result in even greater fundraising for Black Lives Matter (and Free Mumia!). So, win-win. He never said it would take money away from BLM so your point about it not being zero sum is irrelevant. His point is that they made it political by choosing that name, and it's pretty crass to co-opt the language of a movement that's about the un-punished killing of black people by cops to be used at a fund raiser for police who were killed by criminals who are having the full weight of the justice system brought down on them. Edit: you also have no evidence for your completely made up second statement so I'm forced to wonder what the point of your post is at all. Lemming fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 02:04
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Strictly from a PR standpoint it's a really poor choice for a name.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:06
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Nonsense posted:Some angry person already drove through the crowd. "Drove through" kind of implies that the driver did it at speed, when in reality it's more like the driver slowly pushed through the crowd at walking pace.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:12
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PINING 4 PORKINS posted:"Drove through" kind of implies that the driver did it at speed, when in reality it's more like the driver slowly pushed through the crowd at walking pace. Oh ok, those people were all arrested and are enjoying the summer heat. I hope nobody really tries to continue copying that blocking of highways crap. They did that in Egypt and people were mowed down.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:14
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Cole posted:Strictly from a PR standpoint it's a really poor choice for a name. I agree but not enough to throw a fit on the internet over their fundraiser. Bad taste? Yep. Moral outrage? Nope. And being on the one year anniversary of something that happened in another state? Don't give a poo poo. It's still a good cause.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:16
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Nonsense posted:Oh ok, those people were all arrested and are enjoying the summer heat. I hope nobody really tries to continue copying that blocking of highways crap. They did that in Egypt and people were mowed down. Proving Egypt has returned to a proper society for the first time since Cleopatra's reign.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:18
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Genocide Tendency posted:I agree but not enough to throw a fit on the internet over their fundraiser. Alright, well first of all there's no "moral outrage" in this thread from any of the people you've quoted, it's been variations on "this is stupid/they hosed up," literally 0 people have thrown a fit, second, getting upset that the police continue to be completely tone deaf on the issue is a legitimate grievance. Nobody has said raising money for children is bad. The way you do it is certainly open to criticism, especially if you openly politicize it yourself.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:24
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Twelve videos on a huffington post story don't make US police or, more significantly, US police training and education, a homogenous mass. "police are crazy" isn't useful or meaningful, and it obscures locating meaningful causes for specific outcomes- which is what is necessary in a setting of 10th amendment governance.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:27
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Discendo Vox posted:which is what is necessary in a setting of 10th amendment governance. Look, clearly we can solve America's problems if we make the whole country New York State or California.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:34
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Dead Reckoning posted:Look, clearly we can solve America's problems if we make the whole country New York State or California. based on nm's anectdotes about the CA criminal justice system, lol if anyone thinks that's a good idea.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:40
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Discendo Vox posted:Twelve videos on a huffington post story don't make US police or, more significantly, US police training and education, a homogenous mass. "police are crazy" isn't useful or meaningful, and it obscures locating meaningful causes for specific outcomes- which is what is necessary in a setting of 10th amendment governance. Eh.. To be fair. Hearing all the talk about the cafes and red light district in Amsterdam makes most of the US think the Netherlands is a magical place with weed and hookers. Its not true, but stereotyping exists for a reason. Unless its stereotyping blacks. Which is wrong. Also, I like how the blm is all rabid dog about police violence but omits alarmingly high weekend body counts on south 41 in Chicago. #BLACKLIVESMATTER* * - when cops shoot them.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:59
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