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Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters

Duo posted:

Is it still possible to get on Excalibur if I try early in the morning or something, or is it actually closed for good at the moment? If so I guess I'll just make my character on Hyperion :toot:

Also can someone briefly explain to someone new why people seem so upset over crafting? Did they make it easier to level in the expansion so people that did more grinding in the past are mad at the new people that can get there faster? At least that's what I've gotten from trying to read up on it.

End game crafting is a massive grind if you aren't rich and even when you get all the top end gear there's nothing currently wotthwhile to make with it. Lack of genuinely valuable recipes is the biggest problem.

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Sarrisan
Oct 9, 2012

Duo posted:

Is it still possible to get on Excalibur if I try early in the morning or something, or is it actually closed for good at the moment? If so I guess I'll just make my character on Hyperion :toot:

Also can someone briefly explain to someone new why people seem so upset over crafting? Did they make it easier to level in the expansion so people that did more grinding in the past are mad at the new people that can get there faster? At least that's what I've gotten from trying to read up on it.

It's getting pretty hard to get on excal. Your best bet is right after maintenance, or to cough up 18 dollars and transfer from another server.

General Morden
Mar 3, 2013

GOTTA HAVE THAT PAX BISONICA

Mr. Nice! posted:

You shouldn't be spamming it. It also provides some mitigation by blinding all the mobs. Basically I flash only to grab initial hate on a pack and to keep the blind debuff up. Otherwise I'm goring blade and passing out shield bashes.

if your team is heavy aoe you're going to need to spam flash to maintain hate

trying to maintain goring blade with high dps is dicey because you'll often lose hate if the dps is doing really well

also using shield swipe is an overall dps loss now

Captainsalami
Apr 16, 2010

I told you you'd pay!
So this just happened.



seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
DRKs getting unleash which actually does damage and enmity generation for AoEs makes flash pretty pitiful in comparison.

Now that I've got goring blade, it's kind of hard to determine when to use that over rage of halone, but yeah maintaining mob enmity is kind of hard unless you want to spam flash, which in that case you're not doing any damage.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Mr. Nice! posted:

You shouldn't be spamming it. It also provides some mitigation by blinding all the mobs. Basically I flash only to grab initial hate on a pack and to keep the blind debuff up. Otherwise I'm goring blade and passing out shield bashes.

That's not what I meant. Using flash at all really sucks.

Panic! at Nabisco
Jun 6, 2007

it seemed like a good idea at the time
I got tired of being a dragon man, so I made a Bad Financial Decision and actually bought a fantasia. I am now a handsome catte, however, so all is well.



That's PROFESSOR catte to you

Vil
Sep 10, 2011

There are a few very situational times when you want enmity but not damage, but there are far more times when you want both enmity and damage. PLD not having that option (outside of a tiny laughable bit from Circle of Scorn) is annoying.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



General Morden posted:

if your team is heavy aoe you're going to need to spam flash to maintain hate

trying to maintain goring blade with high dps is dicey because you'll often lose hate if the dps is doing really well

also using shield swipe is an overall dps loss now

I run with people aoeing like crazy and have no problems holding hate. Spamming flash isn't necessary at all. Also yes I know swipe is a DPS loss right now but it's still good for passing out pacifications and some enmity on trash packs.

Niton
Oct 21, 2010

Your Lord and Savior has finally arrived!

..got any kibble?
Paladin is also not helped by being the only tank that lacks a passive damage increase in their tanking stance - Warrior gets +20% from Maim, and DRK gets +15% from Darkside. If they wanted keep paladin unique while fixing that, a good place to start might be simply removing Shield Oath's offensive penalty to bring them in line with Maim/Darkside, rather than increasing their potency in general.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Or just make it so you can have both oaths on at the same time, like darkside and grit.

Doublestep
Sep 8, 2013

Keep on keeping on!
What is 'Fight or Flight'

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Doublestep posted:

What is 'Fight or Flight'

Not passive, that's what.

Doublestep
Sep 8, 2013

Keep on keeping on!

Fister Roboto posted:

Not passive, that's what.

Maim and Darkside aren't passives either

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
IMO they need to buff catte and dragons by reducing tail clipping

Hamsterlady
Jul 8, 2010

Corpse Party, bitches.

Kitfox88 posted:

IMO they need to buff catte and dragons by reducing tail clipping

Bring back 1.0 cat butts

kafziel
Nov 11, 2009

Doublestep posted:

Maim and Darkside aren't passives either

But neither are cooldowns, they're functionally up all the time.

Niton
Oct 21, 2010

Your Lord and Savior has finally arrived!

..got any kibble?

Doublestep posted:

Maim and Darkside aren't passives either

Darkside's more of a toggle than a passive, I guess, but Maim absolutely is a passive - even without the combo bonus, it'd still be part of your highest DPS rotation thanks to Storm's Eye.

What I meant was "Paladin has no always-on analogue to Maim or Darkside while tanking", which is still true. Because if you're doing your job, those should both be active nearly 100% of the time.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
Sword oath is also a pretty boring stance. Woo, small potency increase to auto-attacks :geno:

Doublestep
Sep 8, 2013

Keep on keeping on!
And Dark doesn't have a dps cooldown. Please stop trying to homogenize all of the tanks.

Holyshoot
May 6, 2010

bonewitch posted:

Shield swipe is technically a dps loss now

being out of tp is far worse

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

hobbesmaster posted:

Well you see that he's talking about balance around savage statistics so it seems like it's entirely possible that only "savage quality" dps would out threat a tank that knows what they're doing.

They don't though, unless the tank fucks up and does something like pull a boss without their tank (or any) stance up or a BLM crits repeatedly in their opener.

seiferguy posted:

Sword oath is also a pretty boring stance. Woo, small potency increase to auto-attacks :geno:

Joke's on you. PLD is gonna get a Quickblade with a 1 second autoattack speed and then Sword Oath will really shine. :v:

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



seiferguy posted:

Sword oath is also a pretty boring stance. Woo, small potency increase to auto-attacks :geno:

It doesn't add potency to auto attacks. It adds an additional attack after each auto attack. It's a separate. They updated the tooltip in heavensward to reflect this.

terrified of my bathroom
Jan 24, 2014

GAY BOATS

Evil Fluffy posted:

They don't though, unless the tank fucks up and does something like pull a boss without their tank (or any) stance up or a BLM crits repeatedly in their opener.

our pld loses aggro to the blm in a1 all the time because he pulls in sword oath and then gets cocky with royal authority

All of our a1 clears have been mega clowny it kinda owns

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal

Mr. Nice! posted:

It doesn't add potency to auto attacks. It adds an additional attack after each auto attack. It's a separate. They updated the tooltip in heavensward to reflect this.

Oh right, I thought it was that but I checked one of those wiki pages and they said it added the potency. Though I'm not sure what the difference would be with it being added or separate, though.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS
You can (should) Shield Swipe once between Gorings because you have roughly one free GCD in a Goring-Halone-Royal rotation to use in order to avoid clipping your DOT (dependent on skill speed). If you have Bulwark, you can do four Shield Swipes (i.e. Swipe between parts of your RA/Goring combos) to replace Halone in your rotation at the cost of dropping the Halone debuff but saving yourself 70 TP and gaining 20 potency in damage. If you Swipe 2-3 times or more than 4 times you end up being in the middle of a combo when Goring falls off and is also extra bad if you're trying to squeeze two Gorings in one Fight or Flight.

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




seiferguy posted:

Oh right, I thought it was that but I checked one of those wiki pages and they said it added the potency. Though I'm not sure what the difference would be with it being added or separate, though.

an extra attack means you can miss.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Sword Oath is actually really good and cool. It's just that people don't notice it as much because it doesn't make their numbers bigger. But it's an extra ~25 potency per second when your normal rotation is around 150 pps.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Is it true that if you add a dungeon drop minion to your collection you can never roll on it ever again, while people who just want to sell it can keep rolling on it forever? Because that's really hosed up if true.

Smart Car
Mar 31, 2011

It's only true for untradable minions in my experience.

Agraya
Dec 15, 2009
You can definitely roll on minions you already have.

Holyshoot
May 6, 2010
Minions are pointless beyond selling until they let them always be out.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



Eej posted:

You can (should) Shield Swipe once between Gorings because you have roughly one free GCD in a Goring-Halone-Royal rotation to use in order to avoid clipping your DOT (dependent on skill speed). If you have Bulwark, you can do four Shield Swipes (i.e. Swipe between parts of your RA/Goring combos) to replace Halone in your rotation at the cost of dropping the Halone debuff but saving yourself 70 TP and gaining 20 potency in damage. If you Swipe 2-3 times or more than 4 times you end up being in the middle of a combo when Goring falls off and is also extra bad if you're trying to squeeze two Gorings in one Fight or Flight.

I actually just did some math because I thought the gulf was larger, but it really isn't. Going GB, RA, RA and assuming one clip of the dot you end up with 251.11 repeating potency per GCD. Toss in a shield swipe and no dropped ticks, you end up with 251 potency per gcd. If you throw in a fracture instead of a shield swipe, you're at 252. If you're in a situation where you will clip 2 ticks, you want to do a fracture and a shield swipe somewhere in the middle.

All this time before I had been looking at average potencies per combo and just assuming shield swipe and fracture were dps losses because they fell blow the average, but after I've actually calculated it, fracture and shield swipe do still absolutely have their place in a dps rotation for a single target fight. If you're doing multiple targets just goring blade all day long. On three targets you can rotate one between each and keep them up at all times.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Holyshoot posted:

Minions are pointless beyond selling until they let them always be out.

Not being able to have wind-up Nanamo on my shoulder while I stab bosses is a crime against humanity :(

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



The only minion that matters is {fat cat}

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS

Mr. Nice! posted:

I actually just did some math because I thought the gulf was larger, but it really isn't. Going GB, RA, RA and assuming one clip of the dot you end up with 251.11 repeating potency per GCD. Toss in a shield swipe and no dropped ticks, you end up with 251 potency per gcd. If you throw in a fracture instead of a shield swipe, you're at 252. If you're in a situation where you will clip 2 ticks, you want to do a fracture and a shield swipe somewhere in the middle.

All this time before I had been looking at average potencies per combo and just assuming shield swipe and fracture were dps losses because they fell blow the average, but after I've actually calculated it, fracture and shield swipe do still absolutely have their place in a dps rotation for a single target fight. If you're doing multiple targets just goring blade all day long. On three targets you can rotate one between each and keep them up at all times.

You do not want to use Fracture as a GCD filler because it costs 80 TP, which defeats the purpose of using Shield Swipe in the first place (to conserve it).

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



Eej posted:

You do not want to use Fracture as a GCD filler because it costs 80 TP, which defeats the purpose of using Shield Swipe in the first place (to conserve it).

I'm thinking in more of maximizing DPS than TP conservation at the moment. Also you may not always be able to get a shield swipe proc. I'm just saying as a matter of DPS, if you are going to clip goring blade, it is better to use on of fracture or shield swipe then it is to clip. They effectively have a potency of 260 and 250 respectively because you're getting that extra goring blade tick. This works only if you will be clipping. If you're not clipping goring blade, using either shield swipe or fracture is a straight DPS loss.

ilifinicus
Mar 7, 2004

Mr. Nice! posted:

I'm thinking in more of maximizing DPS than TP conservation at the moment. Also you may not always be able to get a shield swipe proc. I'm just saying as a matter of DPS, if you are going to clip goring blade, it is better to use on of fracture or shield swipe then it is to clip. They effectively have a potency of 260 and 250 respectively because you're getting that extra goring blade tick. This works only if you will be clipping. If you're not clipping goring blade, using either shield swipe or fracture is a straight DPS loss.
Um, having no TP means you are no longer DPS. TP management is a large part of DPS

Logicone
Nov 3, 2012

Fur proud service to ze Axis, I hereby avard myself und mein subordinates ze Better zan Herp Ribbon!

You get ze ribbon! Und YOU get ze ribbon! EVERYONE gets ze ribbon!

Except Herp. Arschloch.

Sarrisan posted:

It's getting pretty hard to get on excal. Your best bet is right after maintenance, or to cough up 18 dollars and transfer from another server.

Actually, it's easier to go right before maintenance. I logged in at about 10:55 last night, and just kept getting to server selection, and then backing out until Excal was selectable. I made my character technically 4 minutes after maintenance started, and it didn't appear on the lodestone until this morning, but it seems a surefire way to get on.

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Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
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