China Economy Megathread

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Peel: Dec 3, 2007

So much for the end of explosive growth in China.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 00:18

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# ? May 12, 2024 13:41

Spazzle: Jul 5, 2003

Peel posted:

So much for the end of explosive growth in China.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 00:26

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

BrandorKP posted:

I see some of you comparing this to Texas City. The Texas City incident involved 2100 MT of ammonium nitrate. This is two 21-ish MT explosions. The difference is the cargo hold of a ship amount of whatever vs a couple of 20' containers of whatever.

This is a pretty significant hazardous materials incident and is going to be a very very big deal.

If you want another ammonium nitrate explosion to compare it to, there was the AZF factory explosion in southern France in September 2001 (it happened the 21th). About 200�300 tons of ammonium nitrate was involved in the explosion. The blast wave shattered windows up to 3 kilometres away, and the resulting crater was 10 metres deep and 50 metres wide. The blast was equivalent to 20-40 tons of TNT, measuring 3.4 on the Richter scale, and was heard 80 km away (50 miles). The explosion caused 29 deaths, with 2,500 wounded, around 30 of them heavily. And while it was close to the city of Toulouse (population 460 000+), it wasn't as close as those two detonations in China were from populated areas.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 00:30

The Saucer Hovers: May 16, 2005

Let's see those reds hack our gibsons without a National Supercomputing Center.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 00:37

Bro Dad: Mar 26, 2010

The Saucer Hovers posted:

Let's see those reds hack our gibsons without a National Supercomputing Center.

That was just the Tianhe-1. The Tianhe-2 (the world's fastest supercomputer) is in Guangzhou.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 00:52

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Peel posted:

So much for the end of explosive growth in China.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 02:25

The Saucer Hovers: May 16, 2005

So they're just gonna go ahead and devalue for the third day in a row? That's fun.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 02:38

paragon1: Nov 22, 2010; FULL COMMUNISM NOW

Bro Dad posted:

That was just the Tianhe-1. The Tianhe-2 (the world's fastest supercomputer) is in Guangzhou.

It's definitely faster than the Tianhe-1 now.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 02:50

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

paragon1 posted:

It's definitely faster than the Tianhe-1 now.

Jesus

# ? Aug 13, 2015 02:57

Grand Theft Autobot: Feb 28, 2008; I'm something of a fucking idiot myself

The only thing I know about China's Economy comes from a lecture by a visiting professor from China while I was in grad school. The class was centered on market competitiveness, Michael Porter, and Cluster Theory. Basically, the idea is that individual firms are more productive and competitive when they operate close to related firms, even industry competitors. Simple reasons include the ability to draw from a much deeper talent pool, knowledge sharing, and concentrated lobbying power for more favorable political treatment.

This visiting professor gave a lecture about what China calls the "Business Buildings Economy," which takes Porter's simple concept and runs it straight into the loving ground. For an excruciatingly hilarious hour this guy ran through the most insane PowerPoint presentation possible. I wish I could find and post it.

Basically, he argued that because businesses are more competitive and successful in clusters, China was building a shitload of Business Buildings in artificial clusters, so that firms would move into them and benefit from the advantages of clustering. It took every ounce of my being to respect Chinese Culture and not interrupt with raucous laughter. I couldn't contain random and obvious chuckles, especially when my shithead friends shot me knowng looks from across the room. This was like Sim City Economics. Spend shitloads of money on business buildings and office parks, even in the middle of loving nowhere, and of course they will just instantly fill up with firms. Why wouldn't they? He never asked the question, "Do these firms exist?" or "Is there sufficient demand for the number of buildings we are constructing?" It seemed to me that the whole scheme was a great way to waste billions of dollars building ghost towns full of empty, lovely office buildings.

When the professor finished and said, "Are there any questions?" I'm honestly surprised nobody asked "What the gently caress are you talking about?"

# ? Aug 13, 2015 03:17

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

The only thing I know about China's Economy comes from a lecture by a visiting professor from China while I was in grad school. The class was centered on market competitiveness, Michael Porter, and Cluster Theory. Basically, the idea is that individual firms are more productive and competitive when they operate close to related firms, even industry competitors. Simple reasons include the ability to draw from a much deeper talent pool, knowledge sharing, and concentrated lobbying power for more favorable political treatment.

This visiting professor gave a lecture about what China calls the "Business Buildings Economy," which takes Porter's simple concept and runs it straight into the loving ground. For an excruciatingly hilarious hour this guy ran through the most insane PowerPoint presentation possible. I wish I could find and post it.

Basically, he argued that because businesses are more competitive and successful in clusters, China was building a shitload of Business Buildings in artificial clusters, so that firms would move into them and benefit from the advantages of clustering. It took every ounce of my being to respect Chinese Culture and not interrupt with raucous laughter. I couldn't contain random and obvious chuckles, especially when my shithead friends shot me knowng looks from across the room. This was like Sim City Economics. Spend shitloads of money on business buildings and office parks, even in the middle of loving nowhere, and of course they will just instantly fill up with firms. Why wouldn't they? He never asked the question, "Do these firms exist?" or "Is there sufficient demand for the number of buildings we are constructing?" It seemed to me that the whole scheme was a great way to waste billions of dollars building ghost towns full of empty, lovely office buildings.

When the professor finished and said, "Are there any questions?" I'm honestly surprised nobody asked "What the gently caress are you talking about?"

I think this is a good idea though. It's the reason why startup incubators are built.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 03:25

TheBuilder: Jul 11, 2001

The problem is that each office complex has a KTV on the top floor.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 03:32

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Vladimir Putin posted:

I think this is a good idea though. It's the reason why startup incubators are built.

Startup incubators have a pretty lousy track record.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 03:33

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

TheBuilder posted:

Like they actually had any occupants...

Hopefully this is true.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 03:44

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

The only thing I know about China's Economy comes from a lecture by a visiting professor from China while I was in grad school. The class was centered on market competitiveness, Michael Porter, and Cluster Theory. Basically, the idea is that individual firms are more productive and competitive when they operate close to related firms, even industry competitors. Simple reasons include the ability to draw from a much deeper talent pool, knowledge sharing, and concentrated lobbying power for more favorable political treatment.

This visiting professor gave a lecture about what China calls the "Business Buildings Economy," which takes Porter's simple concept and runs it straight into the loving ground. For an excruciatingly hilarious hour this guy ran through the most insane PowerPoint presentation possible. I wish I could find and post it.

Basically, he argued that because businesses are more competitive and successful in clusters, China was building a shitload of Business Buildings in artificial clusters, so that firms would move into them and benefit from the advantages of clustering. It took every ounce of my being to respect Chinese Culture and not interrupt with raucous laughter. I couldn't contain random and obvious chuckles, especially when my shithead friends shot me knowng looks from across the room. This was like Sim City Economics. Spend shitloads of money on business buildings and office parks, even in the middle of loving nowhere, and of course they will just instantly fill up with firms. Why wouldn't they? He never asked the question, "Do these firms exist?" or "Is there sufficient demand for the number of buildings we are constructing?" It seemed to me that the whole scheme was a great way to waste billions of dollars building ghost towns full of empty, lovely office buildings.

When the professor finished and said, "Are there any questions?" I'm honestly surprised nobody asked "What the gently caress are you talking about?"

So basically China is copying Japan with the MITI industrial planning poo poo? Worked out great for the Japanese, so uh, good for them

And yes, it is a very efficient way to build lots of empty office buildings. Again, beaten to the punch by 30 years

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Aug 13, 2015

# ? Aug 13, 2015 04:15

Redgrendel2001: Sep 1, 2006; you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

golden bubble posted:

And 5,000 were wounded by the Texas explosion. But the big thing is the difference in location. The Texas City port had over a mile of industrial development between it and the nearest commercial/residential buildings, which were all only a few stories tall. The Tianjin explosion occurred two blocks away from a complex of high-rise apartments.

IIRC the other big difference is that the Texas City fire burned for a long time (day or so) before going BOOM so they were able to evacuate the city.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 04:19

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

The 20 tons of TNT equivalent does seem to be a little on the... low end.

The Guardian:

quote:

USGS geophysicist John Bellini said it is rare to detect seismological activity from other events, like the explosion in Tianjin. �Blasts that are not mine-related are rare to record, just because they don�t get transferred into the ground very well,� he said.

Bellini said that it looks like multiple blasts were recorded at the Beijing monitoring facility, but the agency is not completely certain that the activity came from the explosion in Tianjin. The nature of the blast means that the seismological monitor does not give a completely accurate assessment of the explosion�s magnitude, he said.

�I can�t really give you an accurate magnitude picture � because it is one station and I don�t know how much air blast and how much of it is ground vibration, so I can�t give any precise magnitude measure for it,� Bellini said.

He did say that a safe estimate for the explosion is that it registered between a magnitude 2 and 3 on the Richter scale.

�That doesn�t accurately portray the amount of energy in the explosion, just because it isn�t transferred to the ground very well,� said Bellini.

quote:

Twelve hours after two huge blasts rocked the Chinese port city of Tianjin, here is what we know:

Latest casualty figures put the death toll at at least 17, with 32 injured and a further 283 people in hospital.
Nine firefighters are confirmed to have died, although it is not clear whether they are counted among the 17. Authorities say they have lost contact with a further 36 firefighters tackling the huge blazes.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 05:19

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZa48XG7NNM

# ? Aug 13, 2015 05:33

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

36 firefighters? :raise:

# ? Aug 13, 2015 05:36

TheBuilder: Jul 11, 2001

It looks like a goddamned fuel air bomb went off in that container stack. RIP FuMing Sobotka.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 05:39

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Is there any reason except dying for them to lose contact with the firefighters?

# ? Aug 13, 2015 05:50

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

drilldo squirt posted:

Is there any reason except dying for them to lose contact with the firefighters?

Firefighters rationally quit because gently caress being a Chinese firefighter if things are gonna burn like that.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 05:51

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

# ? Aug 13, 2015 05:58

GoutPatrol: Oct 17, 2009; *Stupid Babby*

Bip Roberts posted:

Firefighters rationally quit because gently caress being a Chinese firefighter if things are gonna burn like that.

pretty sure it sucks being any kind of emergency service in china.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 06:04

Daduzi: Nov 22, 2005; You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun.

Vladimir Putin posted:

I think this is a good idea though. It's the reason why startup incubators are built.

Thing is, these kind of places work great if they organically form. They pretty much never work if governments try to create them through their own zoning. I remember giving a presentation to the Party Central Committee of a downtown Shanghai district on pretty much this topic (creative clusters in London to be exact) where that was my main argument: pretty much every attempt at forcing a creative cluster in London failed. What worked was identifying clusters as they naturally formed and backing them through subsidy and relaxed planning laws.

Of course, the week after I gave the presentation they shut down an area where galleries and coffee shops were springing up. The week after they announced a brand new "innovation complex". The notion of not micromanaging doesn't really mesh well with Chinese government.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 07:19

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

BBC references CCTV saying it was explosives

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-33896292

"State broadcaster China Central Television (CCTV) said a shipment of explosives had detonated but this was not confirmed."

CNBC has identified the hazardous materials warehouse

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/12/explosion-in-tianjin-china.html

"Dow Jones reported that the warehouse is used by Ruihai International Logistics, a company that handles hazardous materials, citing a blog run by China's Ministry of Public Security Fire Department. "

# ? Aug 13, 2015 07:38

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

A minor public service.

If you are ever around a hazmat incident, this is a good thing to have:
http://phmsa.dot.gov/pv_obj_cache/pv_obj_id_7410989F4294AE44A2EBF6A80ADB640BCA8E4200/filename/ERG2012.pdf

There are phone app versions of that available. If you know the un number of whatever the poo poo is, that book tells you how far to GTFO.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 07:41

cheesetriangles: Jan 5, 2011

I think the proper GTFO range is don't stop driving until you run out of gas.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 11:04

Grand Theft Autobot: Feb 28, 2008; I'm something of a fucking idiot myself

Daduzi posted:

Thing is, these kind of places work great if they organically form. They pretty much never work if governments try to create them through their own zoning. I remember giving a presentation to the Party Central Committee of a downtown Shanghai district on pretty much this topic (creative clusters in London to be exact) where that was my main argument: pretty much every attempt at forcing a creative cluster in London failed. What worked was identifying clusters as they naturally formed and backing them through subsidy and relaxed planning laws.

Of course, the week after I gave the presentation they shut down an area where galleries and coffee shops were springing up. The week after they announced a brand new "innovation complex". The notion of not micromanaging doesn't really mesh well with Chinese government.

It's this. These sorts of observations and policy recommendations are essentially exactly what Porter talks about. Clusters are good and should be encouraged, but you can't just create them by building an office park, or by trying to force the into existence.

Funniest goddamn presentation I've ever seen.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 13:57

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Renmenbi devalues for a second straight day.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 14:17

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

Third, no?

# ? Aug 13, 2015 14:19

cheesetriangles: Jan 5, 2011

Does this make bananas more or less profitable to sell?

# ? Aug 13, 2015 14:23

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

cheesetriangles posted:

Does this make bananas more or less profitable to sell?

It depends if it's an import or export. Also this is indeed the third straight day not the second.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 14:48

Lucy Heartfilia: May 31, 2012

Why not a fourth time tomorrow?

# ? Aug 13, 2015 15:47

Spacehams: Jun 3, 2007; sometimes people are mean, and I think they should try being nice; Grimey Drawer

Lucy Heartfilia posted:

Why not a fourth time tomorrow?

I don't think anyone would be surprised at this point.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 17:39

Warcabbit: Apr 26, 2008; Wedge Regret

BrandorKP posted:

A minor public service.

If you are ever around a hazmat incident, this is a good thing to have:
http://phmsa.dot.gov/pv_obj_cache/pv_obj_id_7410989F4294AE44A2EBF6A80ADB640BCA8E4200/filename/ERG2012.pdf

There are phone app versions of that available. If you know the un number of whatever the poo poo is, that book tells you how far to GTFO.

Not available. Could you find a link to it or to the phone apps?

Also, I should point out that the US Army Field Manual for First Aid is available on Amazon for your Kindle / Kindle app. It's not the worst idea to have it on your phone in residential memory for emergencies.
http://www.amazon.com/Manual-4-25-1...+manual+medical

Warcabbit fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Aug 13, 2015

# ? Aug 13, 2015 18:26

Telsa Cola: Aug 19, 2011; No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

So what is the downside of them devaluing their currency day after day? I know very little about economics so sorry for the stupid questions.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:21

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Telsa Cola posted:

So what is the downside of them devaluing their currency day after day? I know very little about economics so sorry for the stupid questions.

It freaks people out which is no small thing in economics.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:22

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Telsa Cola posted:

So what is the downside of them devaluing their currency day after day? I know very little about economics so sorry for the stupid questions.

Other countries don't like it; also it makes it difficult to switch to a more sustainable economic model of domestic consumption.

# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:23

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# ? May 12, 2024 13:41

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Telsa Cola posted:

So what is the downside of them devaluing their currency day after day? I know very little about economics so sorry for the stupid questions.

It's essentially stealing from other exporting countries on the financial margins, which will piss those other countries off, and also it signifies a doubling down on their unsustainable export-focused economic model instead of weaning off it like they said they would and have to do to prevent their economy from making GBS threads itself

# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:25

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