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O holy poo poo Säcken. 
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Aug 10, 2015 20:39
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I'm loving these stories a lot more than the ones in "Looking for Jake." Sacken in particular feels like an insta-classic for modern horror, yeesh. I loved "The dowager of bees" the most so far - I'd love for China to write something akin to "The Prestige." I think he could do an amazing novel working in that sort of milieu.
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Aug 10, 2015 21:22
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I just finished The 9th Technique, and it is the only story so far I don't like. Perhaps it is because I am tired, but I couldn't make much sense of the story, and as with several of the other stories, the ending was really lacking.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:09
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I thought The 9th Technique has one of the most evil, perfect endings of any of the stories of the book. Read it again when you're less tired.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:37
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I will say one thing about this collection, it has a lot more humour than most of his writing.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:49
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Hedrigall posted:I thought The 9th Technique has one of the most evil, perfect endings of any of the stories of the book. Read it again when you're less tired. I tried it again and I still don't really understand it. After the guy hands her the flask, the writing becomes really odd. The thing in the flask has special properties because It was in a room with a guy who was tortured, but I am not sure what it is or what the woman wants with it. I also don't get all the insect references, or why the thing didn't hatch. Perhaps I am just being dense, but the sudden change in writing style is just leaving me completely clueless, as to what is going on in the story.
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Aug 11, 2015 06:48
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The thing you have to realise is that almost every story is a half-formed thing. Like he came up with a brilliant idea, wrote some beautiful words around it and then just clapped his hands of it and moved on to the next one. That Dusty Man story was awful to be honest, are any of these stories really old?
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Aug 11, 2015 07:02
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Oasx posted:I tried it again and I still don't really understand it. After the guy hands her the flask, the writing becomes really odd. The thing in the flask has special properties because It was in a room with a guy who was tortured, but I am not sure what it is or what the woman wants with it. I also don't get all the insect references, or why the thing didn't hatch. I dont have the book with me but from recollection, this is what's happening in the 9th Technique: - Basic premise: when episodes of extreme emotion (eg: fear) happen, objects in the vicinity get imbued with a certain potency. - The chrysalis was from a caterpillar that was used in a torture technique against this dude IRL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Zubaydah - The chrysalis was overlooked by the underground magic community as a magic object because the most prized item from that guy's interrogation was the waterboarding cloth. - The reason the witch wanted the chrysalis in particular, though, is that her plan involves insects specifially: the chrysalis has become magically linked to all other insects throughout time and space in general, and she wants to use it in some complex spell to stop the mosquito that gave Aleister Crowley malaria from doing so. - (Aleister Crowley being an occult figurehead who the witch idolises IIRC? and she wants to change the course of his life by stopping him from contracting the disease... I need to read the story again to see if that's as I recall) - She prepares the chrysalis for her spell and waits for it to hatch, but the object is far more potent than she expects and it sucks all the energy out of her and its surroundings. - It's strongly implied that it keeps doing this and keeps growing and growing, to certainly hatch into some monstrosity, while the world outside her window seems to fade away — the chrysalis could be draining the whole world for all we know. It's a very dark and creepy ending and I love it. That's what I got out of the story. I want to read it again (and many others of the collection) to be able to fathom some of the stories better.
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Aug 11, 2015 10:08
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thehomemaster posted:That Dusty Man story was awful to be honest, are any of these stories really old? The Dusty Hat was unreadable for me. I got about halfway through and just moved on because I could barely parse the language, it's THAT clunky. I aspire to go back and read it once I finish the rest, but it was torture.
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Aug 11, 2015 15:37
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Hedrigall posted:
Cromwell, not Crowley. She wanted to undo the Restoration. Crowley never had malaria. chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 15:45
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End Of Worlds posted:Cromwell, not Crowley. She wanted to undo the Restoration. Crowley never had malaria. Oh whoops. I was trying to remember some historical figure starting with a C. The Dusty Hat started out the hardest to read, but once you realise what's going on, it becomes fun. It's pretty much Wati's story from Kraken retold with a different joke. Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 23:40
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I just finished the book, as other have mentioned it has a real problem with endings, most of the stories either had very unsatisfying endings, or endings that didn't make any sense. And it is the primary reason why i ultimately think it is a very good book, but not among his very best. Also this is a small complaint, but i wish the stories had a bit less Horror feel, Horror is fine but most of the stories felt a bit depressive, for lack of a better word. My favourites : “Three Moments of an Explosion” I really like this one, i didn't understand the ending, but for two pages there were a lot of cool ideas. “Polynia” Another nice story, it has a very simple concept but there are some really interesting ideas hinted at, like there are parts of the icebergs that are invisible and have completely alien enviroments. “The Condition of New Death” This is one of my favourites. A super creepy concept that doesn't go on too long. “Syllabus” I found this one really fun, and filled with interesting ideas. “Dreaded Outcome” I found the psychological parts of this story really fascinating, are those things actually a real part of the field of psychology? “After the Festival” Really weird and eerie, i like the idea that these strange worms can just appear out of nowhere. Nobody knows where they come from, they just accept it. As many others it suffers from an ending that is very unsatisfying. “The Bastard Prompt” One of my favourites, a super creepy story and hints of conspiracies. “A Second Slice Manifesto” I didn't really understand this the first time i read it, and if i hadn't real Hedrigall's review, and i not sure that the second reading would have helped. But once i understood it, it was an interesting story, and a creepy ending. “Covehithe” This felt like the most Miéville story in the book, a weird concept without going into horror territory. The baby oil rigs sounded super cute. Good, but not great : “In the Slopes” I liked the concept of this one, but i think it is the perfect example of a weakness many of the stories have. It takes a long time to get going, and when it finally becomes good, it ends abruptly. “Säcken” I found this one to be okay, it felt like an old horror story, but it went on a bit too long, and it didn't feel like anything really happened. “The Rabbet” Very creepy story, but once again it ends on a non-ending. Didn't like : “The 9th Technique” I read this one twice, and there were still a lot of things about it i didn't understand. Hedrigall explained it pretty well, but i think there is something wrong with the story if i need someone to explain to me what happened. “The Dusty Hat” There were some interesting ideas here, and it reminded me a lot of Cyclonopedia. But the writing was a combination of being super dry, and not really making any sense. Easily the worst story in the book, It really feels like an editor should have stepped in here. “Estate” I really don't know what this story was about. “The Junket” This felt like 18 pages too long, apart from the name of the film, there wasn't anything to the story. It was a joke that went on too long. “Four Final Orpheuses” Perhaps i am meant to know who Orpheus is, but i didn't get the story at all. “A Mount” This felt very meandering, i don't really understand the point of it. “The Design” This was an interesting concept for a story, but it went on way too long, and it could easily have been condensed into five or so pages. The others were a mix of good and bad, but i don't have any strong feelings for them.
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Aug 12, 2015 21:20
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Ha yea, I got the same Cyclonopedia vibe from The Dusty Hat as well, it's kind of making me want to re-read it now.
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Aug 12, 2015 21:51
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Oasx posted:“Four Final Orpheuses” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus
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Aug 12, 2015 22:47
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Oasx posted:“Four Final Orpheuses” It's too bad Google was destroyed in the great war
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Aug 13, 2015 01:56
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The Vosgian Beast posted:It's too bad Google was destroyed in the great war You are missing the point, a short story should stand on its own not require Google in order to make any sense of it. At two pages it is not like it annoyed me too much, it just seems like an odd thing to put in the book.
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Aug 13, 2015 05:14
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Oasx posted:You are missing the point, a short story should stand on its own not require Google in order to make any sense of it. At two pages it is not like it annoyed me too much, it just seems like an odd thing to put in the book. You should try just learning more. Here is some research on Orpheus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZoQSThtD6s
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Aug 13, 2015 05:19
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I'm sorry you don't get Classical references? It was a pretty cute story. (Finishing The Design now and will report eventually)
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Aug 13, 2015 05:19
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Oasx posted:You are missing the point, a short story should stand on its own not require Google in order to make any sense of it. At two pages it is not like it annoyed me too much, it just seems like an odd thing to put in the book. Intertextuality is a fairly common feature of all literature, everywhere, ever. This goes for even genre fiction.
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Aug 13, 2015 06:06
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Orpheus is a fairly well-known figure in Greek mythology, not as well known as Hercules but up there with Perseus and Jason and Theseus and such. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that your readers will have heard of him.
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Aug 13, 2015 06:20
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Finished the whole book. I'm gonna jump in on the conversation eventually and do a proper response to each story soonish, but in the mean time : I'll become thread pariah, but I really liked it a lot, especially the lack of endings. It seemed kind of rough and sketchy in a good way if that makes sense? I mean, yeah, I'm with you The Dusty Hat and poo poo needed another pass, but I actually enjoyed how Watching God and Estate and whatever were less stories and more like a Music Video Written Down that Made You Have Feels. Does that make any sense or is it crazy person rambling? The trailers are kind of like a microcosm I think (for me at least). I don't really get them but I have a strong reaction and I seriously wonder if that might not be the point. (Also a pretty strong fear/suspicion that I should get a joke but I don't so I feel vaguely embarrassed. So possibly I'm rationalizing not getting it as the point but I'm pretty smart and god drat it Miéville I'm in an existential crisis thanks)
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Aug 13, 2015 06:25
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Watching God was legit good, could have been shorter though.
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Aug 13, 2015 06:29
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Xiahou Dun posted:I don't really get them but I have a strong reaction and I seriously wonder if that might not be the point. (Also a pretty strong fear/suspicion that I should get a joke but I don't so I feel vaguely embarrassed. So David Lynch in book form?
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Aug 13, 2015 08:45
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Khizan posted:Orpheus is a fairly well-known figure in Greek mythology, not as well known as Hercules but up there with Perseus and Jason and Theseus and such. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that your readers will have heard of him. Yeah, the story was a fairly light-hearted way to explore 4 possible reasons why Orpheus hosed up right at the mouth of the exit to Hades, when he was just seconds away from victory. I particularly liked the weak, pathetic "what was I supposed to do again?" outcome.
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Aug 13, 2015 10:07
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Oasx posted:You are missing the point, a short story should stand on its own not require Google in order to make any sense of it. At two pages it is not like it annoyed me too much, it just seems like an odd thing to put in the book. I'm sorry you don't know one of the most famous stories in the entirety of Western Civilization.
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Aug 13, 2015 14:26
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Why reference anything at all that a small segment of your readership might not understand? That's just bad writing imo, better to tone it down to references everybody will get. While you're at it, might as well scrap any slightly unusual words. Who wants to pick up a dictionary while they're reading? Nobody, that's who. Why should the people who know nothing about books or words be punished? This is why I like Goosebumps.
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Aug 13, 2015 15:18
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Perhaps we can go back to discussing China Miéville? I hear he came out with a new book recently.
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Aug 13, 2015 15:39
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taser rates posted:Ha yea, I got the same Cyclonopedia vibe from The Dusty Hat as well, it's kind of making me want to re-read it now. Speaking of which, I tried to read Cyclonopedia a month ago and couldn't finish it. Sounds like you guys may have gotten more out of it than I did?
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Aug 13, 2015 18:38
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Megachile posted:Speaking of which, I tried to read Cyclonopedia a month ago and couldn't finish it. Sounds like you guys may have gotten more out of it than I did? It is a hard book to describe, 50% of the time what i read sounded interesting, but i wasn't sure if i quite understood it, 25% of the time i would read a page and not understand a word, but those last 25% would be crazy ramblings about oil and Assyrian demons and i would just love it. I am not sure i would recommend it to anyone, i can't even clearly say what it was about, so i don't blame you for dropping it.
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Aug 13, 2015 19:05
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Yea, I don't really blame anyone for not being able to finish Cyclonopedia, it must have taken me at least a month of on and off reading and backtracking. What brought it to mind while reading The Dusty Hat was more of a vague feeling on my part than anything concrete, but there is some similarity, in my recollection, between the sentience of the dust vs the role that the desert and oil play in Cyclonopedia.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:13
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Oasx posted:You are missing the point, a short story should stand on its own not require Google in order to make any sense of it. At two pages it is not like it annoyed me too much, it just seems like an odd thing to put in the book. Orpheus is one of the major myths of western culture.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:20
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Xiahou Dun posted:I'll become thread pariah, but I really liked it a lot, especially the lack of endings. It seemed kind of rough and sketchy in a good way if that makes sense? I mean, yeah, I'm with you The Dusty Hat and poo poo needed another pass, but I actually enjoyed how Watching God and Estate and whatever were less stories and more like a Music Video Written Down that Made You Have Feels. Most of them definitely don't feel labored over, and if there's one phrase that describes CHina's writing, it's "labored over." It's nice to read work that's so clearly by him but feels looser and freer and "first draft" instead of uptight and labored over.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:23
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Oasx posted:It is a hard book to describe, 50% of the time what i read sounded interesting, but i wasn't sure if i quite understood it, 25% of the time i would read a page and not understand a word, but those last 25% would be crazy ramblings about oil and Assyrian demons and i would just love it. Cyclonopedia really asks for a half decent understanding of Deleuze and Guattari to get to the meat of a lot of it's arguments; making the current complaint about being expected to know rudimentary Greek myth stuff to get into a story even funnier.
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Aug 14, 2015 03:20
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I'm enjoying these stories quite a bit for the atmosphere, but I wish they came with an encyclopedia attached - I'm never sure whether the vagueness present in the stories is because of ~new weird~ reasons or because I'm not smart/cultured enough, which nags at me sometimes. Most of the time I imagine it's probably a combination of the two, but I never would have deciphered the latter half of the 9th Technique, a story I still enjoyed on my first read through, without the help of this thread.
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Aug 14, 2015 04:39
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NicelyNice posted:I'm enjoying these stories quite a bit for the atmosphere, but I wish they came with an encyclopedia attached - I'm never sure whether the vagueness present in the stories is because of ~new weird~ reasons or because I'm not smart/cultured enough, which nags at me sometimes. Most of the time I imagine it's probably a combination of the two, but I never would have deciphered the latter half of the 9th Technique, a story I still enjoyed on my first read through, without the help of this thread. Whoa man, watch out--this thread isn't a safe place to admit you're not cultured or knowledgeable about certain things, if the last page is anything to go by.
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Aug 14, 2015 14:55
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orpheus is not some obscure work that it's unreasonable to assume that an audience will be at least to some extent familiar with ffs
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Aug 14, 2015 15:04
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"who the hell is this zeus fellow anyway, i don't want to need a dictionary or lexicon to read these stories"
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Aug 14, 2015 15:05
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To be fair, I didn't get it. Then I googled Orpheus and the story was immediately better. Also, funny.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:23
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It's the original "you had one job!"
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Aug 15, 2015 01:04
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Oasx posted:“Dreaded Outcome” anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 08:42
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