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inscrutable horse posted:So I'm a huge nerd who's decided to pick up HEMA (longsword) to stave off cabin fever at my new job. I will be utterly alone (well, with 10 other people) on an island in the middle of nowhere for a year, with an embarrassing amount of free time. Considering that I'm an absolute beginner, how should I practice this stuff? I've been looking at various articles and fechtbücher on the net, and together with this thread, I get the idea that footwork and general fitness are vitally important, so that's something I'd like to know more about. But then there's stuff like stances/guards/whatever the terminology is - how much of that can I practice on my own? Is it actually feasible? And then there's the unknown unknowns that I don't even know to ask about! The HEMA guys might differ, but from a kendo stand point, you can't and you are more likely to teach yourself bad habits than teaching yourself anything useful. You're better off spending the time getting fit.
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# ? Aug 12, 2015 22:29 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 04:17 |
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Yeah, you should really try to find a buddy. Fighting with swords is fundamentally a multiplayer experience and you can't really learn to parry a blow without someone swinging a sword at you. However, if you can find yourself a training partner, it's all good. There's a number of "HEMA for Dummies" -books available, and the existing HEMA community is proof that you can, in fact, learn to fight from a book. (If you've got someone willing to swing a sword at you.) You just need a pair of swords or sword-like objects and preferably also a pair of fencing masks, and you're good to go.
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# ? Aug 12, 2015 22:36 |
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That sounds reasonable enough. So what kind of fitness training would you recommend? I've been hiking in the mountains since I was 6 or 7, so I'm reasonably fit, if not exactly an athlete, but I don't know how well that transfers to exercises that seem to favour quick, sharp motions.
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# ? Aug 12, 2015 22:49 |
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Hiking's good, keep doing that if the island allows. If you want to be stronger, (and hey, who doesn't?) doing lots of pushups and lifting heavy barbells is good stuff. Goons over in YLLS are probably better at that side of fitness. In any case, you don't really need to worry about training specifically for swordfighting, since the sword is basically a labour-saving device designed to make up for a lack in strength. Speed comes more from practice than exercise. On the other hand, strong shoulders make the sword lighter and a strong core gives you a better posture, so there are of course benefits to working out.
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# ? Aug 12, 2015 23:10 |
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inscrutable horse posted:That sounds reasonable enough. So what kind of fitness training would you recommend? I've been hiking in the mountains since I was 6 or 7, so I'm reasonably fit, if not exactly an athlete, but I don't know how well that transfers to exercises that seem to favour quick, sharp motions. Any HIIT work. Trail running is good too, especially shorter loops where you can push yourself. You can diy a speed-ladder for footwork/speed drills. Barbell-work if you can (but being on an island with only other people that sounds unlikely). so look up body-weight exercises.
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# ? Aug 12, 2015 23:40 |
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buy a skipping rope
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 00:52 |
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Do the stupid fencing step up and down the beach all day. Squat while you do it. You need to build those muscles. The beginning sucks.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 00:54 |
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No beach, I'm afraid. Just 50m vertical cliffs.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 01:54 |
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Ha! I have to do it up a minor hill and am limping the next day. Do that damned exercise. after you are worn out, then basic training starts. Keep it up. It is pretty fun.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 02:15 |
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Squat until your legs are crying for mercy, then do ten more.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 03:04 |
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ImplicitAssembler posted:The HEMA guys might differ, but from a kendo stand point, you can't and you are more likely to teach yourself bad habits than teaching yourself anything useful. You're better off spending the time getting fit. I would also say not to train completely on your own. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get something that seems simple completely wrong. Martial arts of any kind definitely require some kind of teaching, or at least an outside perspective.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 04:54 |
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Teaching of any kind is, I'm afraid, pretty much impossible I live in the Faroe Islands, and after months of exhaustive investigation, I've found out that there is no one in the country who has practiced any sort of sword-based martial art, bet it Olympic, historical or JSA. This is kinda what inspired me to start this in the first place - my ambition, once I'm off The Hermit Island of Desolation and Despair, is to start recruiting other interested individuals so that we can start a club. From there I hope to get it recognized as an "official" sport or something, and get my filthy hands on some in order to invite teachers over here for a short period. Well, those are my "professional" ambitions - personally, I just want to swing a sword around like a huge nerd.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 11:29 |
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Re: exercise chat, walking lunges are more interesting than squats if you get bored easily (like I do).inscrutable horse posted:Teaching of any kind is, I'm afraid, pretty much impossible I live in the Faroe Islands, and after months of exhaustive investigation, I've found out that there is no one in the country who has practiced any sort of sword-based martial art, bet it Olympic, historical or JSA. This is kinda what inspired me to start this in the first place - my ambition, once I'm off The Hermit Island of Desolation and Despair, is to start recruiting other interested individuals so that we can start a club. From there I hope to get it recognized as an "official" sport or something, and get my filthy hands on some in order to invite teachers over here for a short period. Well, those are my "professional" ambitions - personally, I just want to swing a sword around like a huge nerd. You could start a study group, as long as everyone understands that you're all new at this and your role is basically just to give structure to the sessions rather than as a teacher it could be ok. Everyone I've met through HEMA has been very nice and I'm sure you could get some teaching tips if you approach an established trainer.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 12:10 |
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Yeah, that's pretty much the outline of my future plans: get some likeminded people to swing swords, and then get in contact with established groups elsewhere for guidance. I've noticed that there are groups in Scandinavia which explicitly offer to help establish new groups, so I've bookmarked them for further reference. As for exercise chat, am I wrong in thinking that a lot of it is geared towards general endurance? If so, then it's not really an issue for me - like I said before, I've been hiking in mountainous terrain for nearly 25 years, and by now I can keep up a pace of ~8 kph pretty much indefinitely. When weather allows it, I often walk from where I live to the capital city, and that's around 45 km of constant hills and valleys. I'm thinking more about upper body endurance (gotta hold and swing that thing) and "explosive" movement (lunging forward). Or am I just being a complete Jon Snow who knoos noothin'?
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 12:30 |
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Here's a good blog post about training for speed: http://guywindsor.net/blog/2012/10/i-am-slow/ Tl;dr: Don't worry about it quite yet, it comes with practice. (Longsword fencers are also super lazy so we don't lunge a lot anyway.) (And also because very few sources show lunging motions.) Upper body strength is good for fencing, because the stronger you are the lighter the sword feels, and the easier it is to manipulate precisely. Working out also opens up new nerve channels, which makes it easier to activate the correct muscles. Thanks for reminding me I really should hit the gym again.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 12:58 |
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Super, thanks for the good advice! fakeedit: Just one more question, and then I'll stop bothering you guys! I've been checking out videos in this playlist. Matt Easton seems like a guy who knows his things, so is this a good resource?
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 13:32 |
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inscrutable horse posted:So I'm a huge nerd who's decided to pick up HEMA (longsword) to stave off cabin fever at my new job. I will be utterly alone (well, with 10 other people) on an island in the middle of nowhere for a year, with an embarrassing amount of free time. Considering that I'm an absolute beginner, how should I practice this stuff? I've been looking at various articles and fechtbücher on the net, and together with this thread, I get the idea that footwork and general fitness are vitally important, so that's something I'd like to know more about. But then there's stuff like stances/guards/whatever the terminology is - how much of that can I practice on my own? Is it actually feasible? And then there's the unknown unknowns that I don't even know to ask about! If you already have a solid background in martial arts, go for it. Without a training partner you will only aquire the very basics, but at least you will know your drills after a year.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 16:35 |
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Let's put it this way: I know that the pointy end should generally point away from me.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 16:44 |
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inscrutable horse posted:Let's put it this way: I know that the pointy end should generally point away from me. Use that year to learn the theory, nomenclature, read and use online forums and sperg about equipment and so on. Regarding physical training, imo your best bet is that one of the other 9 persons is a martial artist - train the stuff he is doing. Even if its not swords, it will probably prepare you far better for swords in the future than anything you can do as a complete beginner by yourself. Also use that year to become really, really fit. inscrutable horse posted:Teaching of any kind is, I'm afraid, pretty much impossible I live in the Faroe Islands, and after months of exhaustive investigation, I've found out that there is no one in the country who has practiced any sort of sword-based martial art, bet it Olympic, historical or JSA. This is kinda what inspired me to start this in the first place - my ambition, once I'm off The Hermit Island of Desolation and Despair, is to start recruiting other interested individuals so that we can start a club. From there I hope to get it recognized as an "official" sport or something, and get my filthy hands on some in order to invite teachers over here for a short period. Well, those are my "professional" ambitions - personally, I just want to swing a sword around like a huge nerd. That said, a complete beginner to martial arts will not be able to absorpt much of relevance in a few weeks. Learn any other martial art (bonus points if you actually do fights in it), and revisit swords later. Maybe someone on that island does some form of stick fighting - its weapon based, and even if its very different from swordsplay, you will aquire a shitload of qualities that will be very useful for learning other weapon systems. If you insist on basically starting on your own with books only, or even a few more beginners as partners, the quality of the stuff you will do will stay abmyssal for a long, long time. It will probably be fun though Nektu fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Aug 13, 2015 |
# ? Aug 13, 2015 16:59 |
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you're the second faroese i've ever met--what percentage of that region is that?
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 17:19 |
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HEY GAL posted:you're the second faroese i've ever met--what percentage of that region is that? Second Faroese, you say? That would make me about 1/24000th then Nektu posted:
The only martial art practiced in the country is Judo, and I've been thinking about maybe taking a few classes of that for their perspective on grappling, but that won't be possible for another year, once my job has run its course. I do, however, have a brother-in-law-ish in Denmark who does viking reenactment, and according to my sister, he was totally psyched earlier today about hearing I've wanted to pick up the German longsword, so it seems I'm not completely lost for training opportunities. Fun Faroese fact though: Once I get my hand on a proper sword, I will likely be the first civilian person in about 1000 years to wield a blade I'm totally onboard the whole get "git swole noob" before doing any drills or stuff, though. I might not have even a single competitive gene in my body, but I do want to do things properly! I did buy myself a sweet looking Rawlings Proline Xtreme Sparring sword, though, so I can't promise that I won't swing it around on occasion...
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 17:35 |
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inscrutable horse posted:Super, thanks for the good advice! Additionally, does anyone have a link to some videos that demonstrate the meisterhaue? I want to make sure I'm remembering them right, and looking at a series of static pictures isn't helping a lot.
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:44 |
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If a group of Jamaicans can start a bobsleigh team, a group of Faroeses can hit each other with swords. Follow your dreams, goon sir!
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# ? Aug 13, 2015 21:20 |
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Nektu posted:
I just wanted to expand on this and say that if any of the other 9 people are into any kind of physical thing that involves most of the body at all; weight-lifting, dancing, martial arts, etc; then you would probably do well to hook up with them. Becoming aware of your own body, where it's going and how to control it in various ways is general skill that overlaps with a lot of stuff and you only get bad habits if something conflicts directly with what you eventually want to start doing.
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# ? Aug 14, 2015 02:55 |
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Apart from just getting fit, footwork is something you can definitely get lots of benefit from practising on your own. I can't speak for HEMA, but in Olympic at least, good footwork/basic bladework will often beat good bladework/sloppy footwork. But until you know you're doing it right and it's getting to become second nature, go slowly and stay relaxed. Approach it more like learning a musical instrument than expecting some kind of count of monte cristo montage... Getting feedback on your technique is very important, both in terms of learning to fence effectively and also making sure you don't learn a bad habit that leads to a serious sport injury. If you can't get actual in-person tuition, it's going to be a lot safer to learn another sport/martial art from someone who does know what they're doing. Plenty of skills and types of fitness will end up being transferable. Hell, foil is more or less contact badminton sometimes. Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Aug 14, 2015 |
# ? Aug 14, 2015 03:44 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52ykRz95JRU HEMA form video by Dustin Reagan (winner of the Longpoint 2015 open longsword tournament, and tournament champion)
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# ? Aug 14, 2015 04:46 |
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I guess inscrutable horse could just post videos of his work, and I bet that the thread would be very willing to help him out with critique and advice. Its just so much harder to explain stuff verbally only...
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# ? Aug 14, 2015 18:01 |
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Verisimilidude posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52ykRz95JRU are these guys really skinny or are their masks throwing off my sense of proportion
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# ? Aug 14, 2015 21:38 |
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A fencing mask is pretty big, but these are some thin dudes.
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# ? Aug 14, 2015 21:41 |
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ScratchAndSniff posted:If a group of Jamaicans can start a bobsleigh team, a group of Faroeses can hit each other with swords. Follow your dreams, goon sir! Hahahaha! I need to translate this into Latin, and then it will be my future club's motto!
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# ? Aug 14, 2015 22:47 |
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Would anyone in the SoCal area be interested in a Jukendo study group? As mentioned previously in this thread, Jukendo is the Japanese martial art of bayonet fighting, based off the French school of bayonet incorporating elements of Japanese spear styles. It is practiced heavily by the Japanese Self Defense Forces, but is extremely obscure outside Japan. My Naginata dojo is trying to start a study group here in Irvine. There doesn't seem to be much interest, but I figured goons might be interested in getting into an obscure martial art.
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# ? Aug 17, 2015 17:31 |
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Han Feizi posted:Would anyone in the SoCal area be interested in a Jukendo study group? Even in Japan, it's extremely obscure...
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# ? Aug 17, 2015 19:06 |
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yeah i'm into this kinda niche martial art you probably haven't heard of it
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# ? Aug 17, 2015 19:21 |
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Today I learned a thing: To fix my strike, I need to fix the guard it begins from. To fix my guard, I need to fix the blow that ends in it. Making progress.
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# ? Aug 17, 2015 20:42 |
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HEY GAL posted:yeah i'm into this kinda niche martial art kind of a hip-hop martial arts system
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# ? Aug 18, 2015 02:59 |
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So what do you guys like to do against absence-of-blade attacks? I really hate those.
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# ? Aug 18, 2015 09:38 |
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Crazy Achmed posted:So what do you guys like to do against absence-of-blade attacks? I really hate those. What do you mean?
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# ? Aug 18, 2015 13:11 |
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Crazy Achmed posted:So what do you guys like to do against absence-of-blade attacks? I really hate those.
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# ? Aug 18, 2015 13:28 |
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Crazy Achmed posted:So what do you guys like to do against absence-of-blade attacks? I really hate those. Sweeping parries, check steps, accordion distance. Get them to commit when you want them to, and kill them with distance. Counterattack if they're too close and too hidey (he says with a knowing nod).
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# ? Aug 18, 2015 13:58 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 04:17 |
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Crazy Achmed posted:So what do you guys like to do against absence-of-blade attacks? I really hate those. This could describe a ton of different things. Maybe try describing the attack in more detail, along with weapon you are using.
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# ? Aug 18, 2015 18:24 |