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I had a group play a PF game with only Psionics Unleashed once. It went pretty well for Pathfinder - the worst thing in it was a half-giant aegis with a giant weapon and a billion strength - before it petered out for unrelated reasons. It was a pity and I slightly miss it.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:05
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A page late, but can we all agree on a definition for HP as "can you still fight?" points? They're so unrelated to just physical meat integrity what with all the ways they can be reduced.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:06
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Arguably 4E introduces added verisimilitude as the "Bloodied" state suggests you have taken actual non-trivial physical injury, if possibly like when Bruce Lee sees you split his lip.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:08
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It bugs me that the monk isn't Psionic anymore
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Aug 13, 2015 23:13
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This isn't the groggiest grog but it does make me just feel kind of sad for this guy. He seems like he is sort of trudging joylessly through the motions of funhaving somehow, and it's all the stranger in that he isn't edition warring or caring much about specific rules. People I've seen feeling bored with RPGs or other creative hobbies can often benefit from a genre jump and he does only mention fantasy, but I don't think that's the root of what's ailing him.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:13
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starkebn posted:A page late, but can we all agree on a definition for HP as "can you still fight?" points? Hit Points are "how many broadsides of a cannon can this ship take before sinking" because all wargames are descended from Naval Combat training wargames.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:46
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Nessus posted:Where did the psionics thing come from, anyway? I mean monks I can comprehend - I gather the inspiration was Caine from Kung Fu, and it seems like it'd be simple enough to keep the core concept of "religious unarmed fighter" and recast it in whatever local theological environment you prefer. But the psionics business did seem strange, if more for the "why are they calling it psionics instead of mindwitching or some poo poo." Psionics used to be/is part of the fictional milieu that D&D was originally based on, back when fantasy and sci-fi were not two completely separate genres. The fact that psionics now feels like it's external to D&D is part of that whole thing where "D&D-esque fantasy" is now a genre in and of itself. spectralent posted:Source your quotes. Dreamscarred Press is, as far as I know, a group of people that up and rewrote/redesigned the 3.5 Psionic systems for Pathfinder after it became clear to them that Paizo was not interested in doing to port-over themselves because they didn't like the way psionics worked in 3.5 On top of creating a Cleric/healer-type psionic class, they also cleaned up a lot of the mechanics such as making sure the Psychic Warrior does not have any dead levels or creating level-0 powers. It's a very cool book because you can use it to run a whole campaign of nothing but psionic classes and they have something to cover each role/archetype. They then later also did Path of War, as a port of Tome of Battle over to Pathfinder.
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Aug 14, 2015 00:02
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That sounds good but do they avoid that issue where part/noncasters might as well just gently caress off or did they do a decent job at parity?
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Aug 14, 2015 00:23
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spectralent posted:That sounds good but do they avoid that issue where part/noncasters might as well just gently caress off or did they do a decent job at parity? This is pretty much impossible without a rewrite of the 3.X magic system
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Aug 14, 2015 00:27
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spectralent posted:That sounds good but do they avoid that issue where part/noncasters might as well just gently caress off or did they do a decent job at parity? There are no "noncasters" with psionics, because even the Psychic Warrior, or the new psionic classes full BAB Aegis or the full BAB Marksman all have powers. If you're referring to classes like the core Fighter, then yeah the psionic classes definitely outshine those, but my reason for exploring this idea in the first place was always so that you'd use them as direct replacements for the shitter 3.x classes.
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Aug 14, 2015 00:36
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Even soulknives have powers now because of what I can only assume is a stealth buff on Dreamscarred's part.
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Aug 14, 2015 00:41
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NGDBSS posted:Speaking of spell terms coming from one language or another, has anyone played that one TRPG that's basically Learn to Speak Korean? Magicians. I think it's pretty cool, but it is worth remembering that it's basically edutainment; it's not really set up for long-term play or deep mechanical engagement, character advancement is pretty much entirely your own advancement in the Korean language. It is a very clever design however, there are a lot of really smart choices made for use as a language tool (for instance, it's GMless, so no one gets to sit out embarrassing themselves by trying to speak). if the gimmick sounds cool to you, and you don't mind your games a little story-gamey, I would say definitely check it out.
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Aug 14, 2015 00:50
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spectralent posted:That sounds good but do they avoid that issue where part/noncasters might as well just gently caress off or did they do a decent job at parity? If you're talking DSP in general, the Path of War classes are all very similar in power to most of the Psionic classes. I think the Psion is the only class you can consider tier 2, all of the rest are around tier 3-4. They also have a fighter Archetype that trades out like half of the feats they get for Path of War maneuvers (and grit, but that's not important). It's compatible with most other archetypes and you can choose from a fairly wide variety of schools.
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Aug 14, 2015 01:06
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Caphi posted:Even soulknives have powers now because of what I can only assume is a stealth buff on Dreamscarred's part. There is nothing stealth about it. Dreamscarred was very public about their changes and balancing. One of the key mission goals was "make soul knife not literally the worst class in the game".
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Aug 14, 2015 01:09
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Terrible Opinions posted:There is nothing stealth about it. Dreamscarred was very public about their changes and balancing. One of the key mission goals was "make soul knife not literally the worst class in the game". Yeah, but they still started by printing a "classic" soulknife and then releasing the fix as an archetype.
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Aug 14, 2015 01:16
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Parkreiner posted:Magicians. I think it's pretty cool, but it is worth remembering that it's basically edutainment; it's not really set up for long-term play or deep mechanical engagement, character advancement is pretty much entirely your own advancement in the Korean language. It is a very clever design however, there are a lot of really smart choices made for use as a language tool (for instance, it's GMless, so no one gets to sit out embarrassing themselves by trying to speak). if the gimmick sounds cool to you, and you don't mind your games a little story-gamey, I would say definitely check it out. This seems really loving interesting. Thanks!
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Aug 14, 2015 02:34
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TheTatteredKing posted:There's a bit of logic to "well I can't beat the lock but let me try again when I'm better." I remember IIRC Light Warden in the Murphy's thread going over Identify checks. The DC for identifying a creature is 10 + its hit dice, but the average person has a +/-0 on the check and every creature has at least one dice. So this peasant gets one shot at identifying a dog, 55% chance they'll fail, and can never try again since peasants tend to not gain levels.
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Aug 14, 2015 03:13
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NGDBSS posted:(grogquotin) My players would be having more fun if at first level they all got three artifacts and were made Lords of Hell and lead 10,000 demons into battle so what THEY find more fun isn't as much concern to me is as how much is this going to effect my game. The rule that "whatever the grognard fears might be the outcome of trying things a new way is always more interesting and fun-sounding than what they believe they must do to avoid it" continues to hold.
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Aug 14, 2015 03:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:Psionics used to be/is part of the fictional milieu that D&D was originally based on, back when fantasy and sci-fi were not two completely separate genres. Related: Seemingly every third fantasy setting in the 70's and early 80's involved ancient alien colonization mystery reveals or crashed space ships and laser gun visitors. Many fantasy RPGs did this.
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Aug 14, 2015 03:38
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Including D&D! Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, y'know.
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Aug 14, 2015 03:47
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Mors Rattus posted:Including D&D! Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, y'know. Hell, even older than that. The Temple of the Frog in Blackmoor was all a plot by an alien (Who wears a suit of powered armor equivalent to +3 platemail) to take over the world with genetically engineered murder-frogs. It was the first D&D adventure basically ever published. The Sci-fi is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE.
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Aug 14, 2015 03:54
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Caphi posted:Even soulknives have powers now because of what I can only assume is a stealth buff on Dreamscarred's part. Terrible Opinions posted:There is nothing stealth about it. Dreamscarred was very public about their changes and balancing. One of the key mission goals was "make soul knife not literally the worst class in the game". Yep! I was involved a bit in the playtesting when they first started as that was when I was big into Pathfinder and I had been a long time Dreamscarred supporter (my name is actually in the credits of Psionics: Unleashed!) and when they got some flak for making the Soulknife "better then the Fighter" they explicitly stated that was the whole idea. Even then though they still felt a bit constrained as the general PF community at the time was very fiercely divided about balance and how far 3rd party could go, though that's mellowed out in time. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those same people whinging on how PF was already perfectly balanced ditched it for 5e.
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Aug 14, 2015 03:54
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ProfessorCirno posted:Yep! I was involved a bit in the playtesting when they first started as that was when I was big into Pathfinder and I had been a long time Dreamscarred supporter (my name is actually in the credits of Psionics: Unleashed!) and when they got some flak for making the Soulknife "better then the Fighter" they explicitly stated that was the whole idea. Even then though they still felt a bit constrained as the general PF community at the time was very fiercely divided about balance and how far 3rd party could go, though that's mellowed out in time. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those same people whinging on how PF was already perfectly balanced ditched it for 5e. 5e was the best thing to happen to my local Pathfinder group. All the grogs left for the even dumber game.
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Aug 14, 2015 04:13
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unseenlibrarian posted:Hell, even older than that. The Temple of the Frog in Blackmoor was all a plot by an alien (Who wears a suit of powered armor equivalent to +3 platemail) to take over the world with genetically engineered murder-frogs. It was the first D&D adventure basically ever published. The Sci-fi is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE.
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Aug 14, 2015 04:51
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Halloween Jack posted:In RPGs, I believe it all started with Empire of the Petal Throne. IIRC the OD&D booklets specifically mentioned robots as one of the possible monsters to be encountered beyond those that were statted up in the rules.
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Aug 14, 2015 04:56
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OD&D The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures Wilderness Wandering Monsters pg 18 Desert (Mars) Nomads Dervishes Nomads Lord Wizard Nomads ( R e d Martians) (Tharks) (Black Martians) (Yellow Martians) (Tharks) (White Martians) Found this too: Pg 24 OTHER WORLDS: There should be no "natural laws" which are certain. Space could be passable because it is filled with breathable air . On the other hand the stars could be tiny lights only a few hundred miles away. Some areas of land could be gates into other worlds, dimensions, times, or whatever. Mars is given in these rules, but some other fantastic world or setting could be equally as possible. This function is up to the referee, and what he wishes to do with it is necessarily limited by his other campaign work. However, this factor can be gradually added, so that no sud- den burden will be placed upon the referee. Here's what OG Gygax has for robots: Monsters and Treasure Monster Descriptions Pg 22 Robots, Golems, Androids Self-explanatory monsters which are totally subjective as far as characteristics are concerned. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 05:06
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Nihilarian posted:It bugs me that the monk isn't Psionic anymore The monk should have never been Psionic in the first place.
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Aug 14, 2015 08:40
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theironjef posted:We're in the middle of a readthrough of AD&D for episode 50, and you'd think based on Gygax's preface (or foreword, or introduction, I forget which since the book has all three) that he wanted to do away with some of the sillier bits of realism that had been applied to games over the years. Check this out: Wow! According to the "military press ten times your strength score" rule, anyone who consistently strength trains for a year or two will definitely have a strength score of 18, whereas your average untrained schmuck will probably have a strength score closer to 6 or 7. But of course, ability scores are inborn. They're like your character's genes, and there's no way we can either get rid of them or make them less important. something something dissociated mechanics
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Aug 14, 2015 11:31
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You misapprehend how easy or difficult it is to lift the weight of a grown man over one's head. http://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/PressStandards.html Do you even lift? Cyberpunkey Monkey fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 11:40
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I'm not by any means a great lifter, and I can strict press right around 185 for one rep (at about 175 bodyweight). But you're right, I guess I've underestimated how difficult that is. (I've been at it for a lot more than a year...)
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Aug 14, 2015 12:09
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Elfgames posted:The monk should have never been Psionic in the first place. If the alternative is the monk being magic, I'll take psionics any day of the week.
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Aug 14, 2015 14:22
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Why wouldn't the monk be martial and just able to do crazy poo poo because they're that good at martial arts?
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Aug 14, 2015 14:30
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gtrmp posted:IIRC the OD&D booklets specifically mentioned robots as one of the possible monsters to be encountered beyond those that were statted up in the rules. TSR actually did a Warriors of Mars wargaming book, but they were quickly shut down because they didn't have the rights. The thing with Tekumel is that besides just having some aliens and robots in it, it's the earliest RPG setting that is explicitly the remnants of a sci-fi empire. Tekumel was settled by humans and several alien races as a trade depot and vacation resort, and only partially terraformed. Then Tekumel and its sun got sucked into a pocket dimension and civilization quickly collapsed into barbarism for lack of supplies. I'm pretty sure that a lot of Erol Otus' D&D art is highly Tekumel-influenced. Even when he's drawing stuff that's clearly from D&D (like dark elves) things like the weapons and armor are basically Tekumel. Iron is rare on Tekumel, so they use dinosaur hide that's chemically treated to make it as hard as bronze. Tekumel is the only setting I know of that has leather swords. I think that when you see old Otus D&D art where characters have weapons and armor (and hats, oh god the Otus hats) that appear to make no sense and have no historical correspondence, that's Tekumel showing. 
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Aug 14, 2015 14:44
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Mors Rattus posted:Why wouldn't the monk be martial and just able to do crazy poo poo because they're that good at martial arts? Because any abilities beyond ordinary human level must be magic. Or psionic. Or something. This isn't some kind of comic book, you know. 
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Aug 14, 2015 15:20
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Mors Rattus posted:Why wouldn't the monk be martial and just able to do crazy poo poo because they're that good at martial arts? Because that's anime bullshit. Proper roleplayers use wizards who win every fight by calling out the names of their special magical powers.
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Aug 14, 2015 15:23
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IIRC the Monk was originally a hybrid between a Cleric since they could cast Divine Magic, and then a Thief so that they would have Thief skills, and then they just had a specific bonus to let their unarmed strikes hit as hard as weapons.
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Aug 14, 2015 15:38
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Monks should just get more enlightened as they level up, eventually transcending the illusion of reality.
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Aug 14, 2015 15:57
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MonsieurChoc posted:Monks should just get more enlightened as they level up, eventually transcending the illusion of reality.  "Joe who is this and why is he at my gaming table" "This is Lee, he'll be playing the part of my old character, Kibo the Monk, who has transcended his reality and will now be joining us for weekly gaming sessions."
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Aug 14, 2015 16:06
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gradenko_2000 posted:IIRC the Monk was originally a hybrid between a Cleric since they could cast Divine Magic, and then a Thief so that they would have Thief skills, and then they just had a specific bonus to let their unarmed strikes hit as hard as weapons. 1e monks didn't have spellcasting abilities; they just gained a variety immunities, a hilariously feeble self-healing ability, and for some reason the ability to speak with animals and plants. There was a revised monk offered in an early issue of the Dragon that had various abilities drawn from the psionics list, so psionic monks do go a ways back.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:18
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1e Monks also learned how to Mind Blast, as if they were an illithid with 18 Intelligence. But yeah, hey, Monks who are psionic? Pffff! Bunch of nonsense, right?
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Aug 14, 2015 17:23
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