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Seat Safety Switch posted:I don't see what the big deal is, Harley owners never use their front brake anyway. I had two friends on FB unironically post that. Slavvy posted:I assume and hope that this is either an extremely isolated casting defect or over-torqueing. It wasn't me who over torqued it. Brake parts are one of the few things I actually whip the torque wrench out for, but obviously who the gently caress knows about POs. It's a '01 with 3k miles on it though because it sat in my old man's garage for over a decade due to his wife being deathly afraid of motorcycles. I've had nothing but bad luck with it but this is the first thing that's been something that would kill me.
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Aug 14, 2015 02:07
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DiggityDoink posted:I had two friends on FB unironically post that. ummm.... if u use the front brakes on a bike... u'll flip.... be safe and just use the rears.... (things I have actually been told by bikers)
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Aug 14, 2015 02:10
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I didn't truly grasp the importance of brake balance until I started playing Forza and it let me set the front/rear bias. "Of course I want more stopping power in the rear! That sounds totally reasonable!" Then the first time I had a panic stop and the car instantly did a 180 I realized what was going on. I don't ride motorbikes but I figure the same basic concept applies.. it results in what you guys call highsides, right?
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Aug 14, 2015 02:50
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xzzy posted:I didn't truly grasp the importance of brake balance until I started playing Forza and it let me set the front/rear bias. Hmm. Rear bias should just make the car harder to stop, unless you're trail-braking (i.e. braking while cornering), in which case it could lock the rears and cause the car to oversteer somewhat dramatically, per your description. On a motorcycle, overuse of the rear brake isn't the #1 cause of highsides, but certainly locking the rear in a corner can cause one. A highside is when one or both tires start to slip, and then suddenly regain traction. The momentum of the bike's slide causes it to "trip" over the new traction, often quite violently, throwing the rider into the air in the direction of the slide - and often sending the bike in the air on the same trajectory. They're pretty awful, people get really badly hurt by them. Spinning up the rear due to overzealous throttle usage in a corner is far more likely to cause a highside (e: because often when this happens, riders will panic and chop the throttle, causing instant traction). Locking a wheel typically means that the tire won't regain traction until far after it doesn't matter anymore (i.e. the bike is already going the gently caress down). Locking the rear is actually really fun at lower speeds. 
HandlingByJebus fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 02:57
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DiggityDoink posted:This is just as much poor ownership decisions as it is a mechanical failure. Christ. Took me a solid thirty seconds of looking, then an audible gasp and I sat bolt upright in my chair. Time for a new slider, I guess. On the other hand, Seat Safety Switch posted:I don't see what the big deal is, Harley owners never use their front brake anyway.
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Aug 14, 2015 03:22
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Enourmo posted:ummm.... if u use the front brakes on a bike... u'll flip.... be safe and just use the rears.... Was this immediately before or after they told you the story about when they totally had to lay the bike down to avoid an accident?
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Aug 14, 2015 03:24
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xzzy posted:I didn't truly grasp the importance of brake balance until I started playing Forza and it let me set the front/rear bias. Fun fact: because bikes let you alter the 'brake balance' dynamically (separate controls for front and rear brakes) you can do all kinds of crazy poo poo, like feathering the rear brake to tighten your line around a corner or what have you. Also: sofullofhate posted:Locking the rear is actually really fun at lower speeds.
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Aug 14, 2015 04:16
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Mechanical failure in progress:BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:them duke boys...
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Aug 14, 2015 06:38
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That's not the car's fault, right? I mean it's a pretty low quality clip but I swear the brakes never light up. If the steering went I'd at least expect some kind of reaction, so the driver must have blacked out?
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Aug 14, 2015 07:28
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kastein posted:I don't like going to court, would rather post an honest tech expose so people can make an informed choice and move on. If they have an issue with that and decide it's court worthy I know at least half a dozen other qualified electrical engineers who I can probably hire as expert witnesses. This is well known, very widely used technology that probably has over a billion units in use with excellent safety records... when done right, they just aren't doing it right and have absolutely no technical or financial justification for it. This is a pretty major safety issue. We're not talking about things shorting out and dying, this is an enormous fire risk. Maybe at least file a complaint with your secretary of state's office or something.
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Aug 14, 2015 07:42
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Fayez Butts posted:Mechanical failure in progress: Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 09:03
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DiggityDoink posted:This is just as much poor ownership decisions as it is a mechanical failure. drat, that bike almost made a Layer Dan out of you  after my cycling accident and hearing from a coworker who wrecked at 150mph on the track, I'm happy to never ride motos again.
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Aug 14, 2015 11:07
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Speaking of incorrect brake settings You wanna check that stuff out before you take your rod out for the one time a year drag race in a woodward parking lot.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:20
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Godholio posted:This is a pretty major safety issue. We're not talking about things shorting out and dying, this is an enormous fire risk. Maybe at least file a complaint with your secretary of state's office or something.  So I dug in further. If anyone wanted to make a case for fraud, here you go. Tore the two failed cells out of the pack, then realized the labels were definitely two labels on top of each other, not a single custom printed heatshrink sleeve as most companies use. So I peeled the outer label off:   This is a 4S2P pack constructed from A123 Systems ANR26650M1A cells. A123 is good poo poo, but... A123 Systems produces a 4S2P pack. It is professionally spotwelded and heatshrunk and uses high strand tinned super flexible silicone insulated wire leads, far superior to the garbage Braille used. This is a Braille 4S2P pack, built with the same exact cells. Let's compare some specs shall we? A123 4S2P made from ANR26650M1As: http://www.a123rc.com/goods-131-Motorcycle+starter+Battery+lifepo4+A123+system+ANR26650M1A+12V46AH+4S2P.html Braille 4S2P made from ANR26650M1As with stickers wrapped around them: http://www.amazon.com/Braille-Battery-ML7S-Volt-Lithium/dp/B005P96UC8 (they have apparently downrated the PCA spec since the one I have was purchased. This one's case specs 280 PCA.) Amp-Hours: A123 - 4.6Ah Braille - 6Ah (30% uprating from the original manufacturer) Pulse Cranking Amps: A123 - 276A Braille - 280A (on unit inspected) 250A (on Amazon) - we'll call this one a draw Continuous draw / cranking amps rating: A123 - 138A Braille - 200A (45% uprating from the original manufacturer) Further, the spotwelds not only look loving horrible, they ARE loving horrible:  These two pieces of the second layer of nickel bond strip simply fell off when I cut the two failed cells apart. Since a single spotweld (out of sixteen) on each one achieved fusion and the rest were barely hanging onto the surface, my suspicion is that the first weld "took" and the setup or spotweld methodology they are using is bad, so all the weld current is simply going through the first weld every time they try to add more welds nearby. Just to make sure I prodded another apart with a utility knife between the layers:  Slight prying and it just popped apart. Again, one spotweld that penetrated, the rest just sorta clung to the surface until I looked at them funny.  And on the other end of the spectrum, the set of spotwelds in the lower right is a horrible bodge job. It looks like someone energized the welder and then touched it to the workpiece instead of the other way around. The hole goes all the way through the first layer of nickel. Dear Braille: I have priced out the exact materials (or better) that you use in these packs and I can build exactly the same shoddy unsafe fire-death-trap for approximately $150 BOM cost in quantity 1. A proper safe 4S3P (which would actually meet the claimed performance levels on your site) with cell balancing for approximately $200 in quantity 1. Shape the gently caress up or I might decide to compete with you, those are still drat good margins even doing this right. In the meantime I'll just tell everyone I know to not buy your garbage until someone shows me a more modern product that is well engineered and the unsafe products are taken off the market.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:16
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Wow, I want to think this was a counterfeit.
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Aug 15, 2015 04:40
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Nope. Got all four from them, direct. One caught fire, one is pictured here, I haven't bothered to tear the other two open. That was my first thought upon opening it up too.
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Aug 15, 2015 05:03
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Teslas use NCR18650 batteries, if anyone is curious / cares / finds it interesting.
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Aug 15, 2015 05:52
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Uncle Jam posted:Speaking of incorrect brake settings Looking forward to more dream cruise accident pics. Also, someone posted a battery pic to facebook: Braille Battery, Inc facebook posted:Wow! How old is that battery? Looks like an ML7S? That looks like an early Gen 1 battery from 2010 or so. We haven't built them like that, with those cells or even that model in more than 4 years! Our current product looks much different and than that! Definitely a museum piece of the early days....that early technology still won the Rolex 24 & Le Mans back in the day. Lots of development & improvement since those early days! Thanks for sharing.
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Aug 15, 2015 06:16
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Good thing we totally dont make them like that anymore, that would be irresponsible!
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Aug 15, 2015 06:43
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14 INCH SLIT posted:Good thing we totally dont make them like that anymore, that would be irresponsible! --Land Rover.
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Aug 15, 2015 06:51
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How come they are still for sale on amazon with the same exact pic then I wonder? They still don't have a loving balance charge port so unless they want to tell me there is an actual balance charge controller inside and maybe show a picture or two of their own they can blow it up their rear end. E: and it being old is absolutely no excuse for being unbalanced. You can learn about the critical nature of lithium cell balancing by spending 5 minutes surfing wikipedia, you don't need to spend years risking customers cars with outright dangerous products to do that. kastein fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 13:47
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And in horrible mechanic failures...
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Aug 15, 2015 15:03
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kastein posted:And in horrible mechanic failures...  That must have sounded like... a bolt rattling around... in a tin can? In HELL.
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Aug 15, 2015 20:06
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kastein posted:And in horrible mechanic failures... So that's where it went!
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Aug 15, 2015 20:46
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sofullofhate posted:
The proverbial skeleton masturbating in a filing cabinet full of tin cans.
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Aug 15, 2015 20:49
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You guys are looking at the wrong end for the real horror. What's the combustion chamber and the intake(?) valve on that corner look like?
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Aug 15, 2015 21:03
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No idea, I found it on facebook. Apparently that was an air filter housing bolt that went awol during reassembly. E: I'm thinking more "blender full of spoons and glass bottles"
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Aug 15, 2015 21:13
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MrChips posted:The proverbial skeleton masturbating in a filing cabinet full of tin cans. I heard a land rover making this noise the other day and remembered the "skeleton jerking off in a trashcan" description someone posted a while back. Couldn't stop laughing, that's exactly what it sounded like.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:32
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Saw a friend post a chronological update on Facebook of doing plugs on his Skyline  a few years ago. One post was something like "lost a coil pack bolt but found a spare inside the garage." A few hours later was a video of "just did plugs, what do you think this noise is?" Two weeks later he had it up for sale with the head off, piston and cylinder thrashed.
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Aug 16, 2015 02:55
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MrChips posted:The proverbial skeleton masturbating in a filing cabinet full of tin cans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4AFQc4ZrvA
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Aug 16, 2015 03:25
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kastein posted:How come they are still for sale on amazon with the same exact pic then I wonder? It's quite possible that their newer batteries DO have a balance charge board inside, but I'd want to see one bought off amazon by some random & ripped open showing the board before I believed it. In any case since you can't trust any of their batteries to ever have the circuitry they can go get hosed. A simple balance charge port would have added at most a couple bucks to their BOM.
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Aug 16, 2015 06:50
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MrChips posted:The proverbial skeleton masturbating in a filing cabinet full of tin cans. For added comedy, accompanied by the romantic noises of Skeletons having sex on a tin roof.
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Aug 16, 2015 17:49
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Blitter posted:For added comedy, accompanied by the romantic noises of Skeletons having sex on a tin roof. I... what? I have a 3 minute gap in my memory and left with a feeling of utter confusion. I'm not sure if I'm aroused, weirded out, or revulsed. Is this what a stroke feels like?
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Aug 16, 2015 18:07
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14 INCH SLIT posted:Good thing we totally dont make them like that anymore, that would be fraudulent! FTFY
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Aug 16, 2015 19:00
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MrChips posted:The proverbial skeleton masturbating in a filing cabinet full of tin cans. Something like this I imagine  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXvBsR-P8wg
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Aug 16, 2015 19:02
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kastein posted:The problem is that the Braille reps claimed (verbally, so unfortunately no proof) that this battery had internal balancing, and the Braille-branded chargers that were used with these batteries claim to have magical balancing capability while only connecting to the end terminals of the pack. Clearly this is bullshit, because at least two packs have failed due to cell unbalance, one causing a fire, and I'd bet a significant amount of money that the other two will show severe cell imbalances as well if I crack them open and measure each cell pair. If I could show pictures of the internals of the li-ion battery packs we have manufactured for our devices, you might break down weeping. Multiple die-cut solder tabs, a molded plastic cell holder to prevent cell-failure chain reactions, wiring laid out by actual engineers, etc... The wiring thing, however, is common. We have some batteries that have the tabs soldered directly to battery circuit board, and others that have wires running from the tabs to the PCA. No further mechnical reinforcement is added to those connections (beyond tape) because they can never move, and also because if the battery has gotten hot enough to melt solder than multiple levels of protection have failed* and that battery should be in flames. I think we had one version of a battery with a single tab that wasn't soldered--i think we had a PTC thermistor spot welded to one tab, with a wire crimp on the other side. Other than that, every battery i've seen from multiple extremely-reputable supplies has been designed this way. *Specifically, our batteries have multiple thermistors (connected to the smart battery IC) and thermal fuses.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:43
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Das Volk posted:Something like this I imagine A witch put a curse on you, right?
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Aug 16, 2015 19:45
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kastein posted:
So, I think these are LiFePO4 cells instead of standard Li-Ion. This means they are safer when overcharged, which is a benefit for preventing self-ignition of unbalanced cells during charging, but does nothing to mitigate damage from over-discharging. It's still inexcusable not to balance charge them, but it's somewhat less dangerous than with normal Li-ion chemistries.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:59
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You are correct on chemistry, but one still caught fire and drat near burned a friend's car to the ground. I had actually taken this pack apart a week or two ago, saw how lovely it was, told multiple people backchannel (rather than spreading it publically, as I wasn't sure of the danger and just hated how badly it was fabricated) and then this happened shortly afterward. At that point I decided as an engineer I can't really in good conscience let this slide and should warn the gearhead community at large. Still not sure how the pack caught fire since LiFePO4 are astonishingly hard to do that to, I would love to get measurements on each cell's potential in the failed pack and maybe have a camera on it for the failure but it is just a bit too late for that. The concern about no mechanical connection prior to soldering is of least concern on my list as well - solder as you noted melts well above the temp where the battery is already on fire and you really have a number of other more pressing concerns at that point. e: if you guys sell packs as well as making them, send me a PM, it sounds like everything is properly done and I'd much rather buy from a known company than one of the other firms doing imported lithium starting batteries. In the meantime it looks like I'm going with Shorai, will report back if anything explodes or catches fire
kastein fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 20:46
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Das Volk posted:Something like this I imagine That skeleton is going to be sore!
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Aug 16, 2015 20:51
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