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Dre2Dee2 posted:post this in the op
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Aug 14, 2015 16:52
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You can add a Mage Knight caveat though, Mage Knight is actually good.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:53
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Oh yeah true, MK is the exception to the rule
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Aug 14, 2015 16:54
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I'm like the Sith, I only deal in absolutes.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:54
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Andarel posted:Base game is really bland. Galactic Orders makes it significantly less bland and makes the midgame a bit more interesting though endgame is still boring. I've gone on record plenty (I was on a dice tower podcast at one point complaining about how lovely Core Worlds is, hah) on how mediocre the mechanics of CW are, expansion adds new things that are definitely a bit thinkier and make synergistic cards actually feel synergistic. Thanks for the explanation. I will definitely trade it away to the first person who wants it, unplayed.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:58
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Malloreon posted:Thanks for the explanation. I will definitely trade it away to the first person who wants it, unplayed. It's probably worth playing once just to see how bland it actually is, there are definitely worse things out there. Also somehow the expansion has half as many cards as the base game but the box is notably bigger. Why. How.
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Aug 14, 2015 17:00
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jadarx posted:I saw similar boards for Mercs at Gencon a few years ago. After digging around, I found a thread with pictures and a little explaination. But that link has been lost in time. This looks a lot like infinity. Anyone have any more information about this MERC game?
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Aug 14, 2015 17:02
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There was a kickstarter for it and there are a shitload of "MERCS: <xyz>" named boxes  I didn't back and don't recall there being anything particularly special seeming about it but I'd love to be wrong. I love that terrain even though I'm a little disappointed that it's some mashup thing and not actually a demo of any particular game.
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Aug 14, 2015 17:14
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I mentioned here that I gave away my copy of Munchkin to my teenage nephew, because I hate the game and never want to play it again. I found out that when they arrived to their new home after an international move, their stuff didn't get there for 2 more days. So they played it for hours and hours over the next two days 
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Aug 14, 2015 17:28
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canyoneer posted:I mentioned here that I gave away my copy of Munchkin to my teenage nephew, because I hate the game and never want to play it again. Did they ever finish that game?
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Aug 14, 2015 17:36
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canyoneer posted:I mentioned here that I gave away my copy of Munchkin to my teenage nephew, because I hate the game and never want to play it again. I reiterate, you're the worst uncle ever.
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Aug 14, 2015 17:37
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Is Roll the one where the only solution to cheating is 'Don't play with cheaters?'
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Aug 14, 2015 17:41
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AMooseDoesStuff posted:Is Roll the one where the only solution to cheating is 'Don't play with cheaters?' Sure, but that's a good strategy in general. Who the hell cheats in boardgames?
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Aug 14, 2015 17:42
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canyoneer posted:I mentioned here that I gave away my copy of Munchkin to my teenage nephew, because I hate the game and never want to play it again. You did this to them.
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Aug 14, 2015 17:42
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silvergoose posted:Sure, but that's a good strategy in general. Who the hell cheats in boardgames? I mean, what IS the solution to cheating otherwise?
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Aug 14, 2015 17:50
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Cut off their hands.
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Aug 14, 2015 17:52
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Kai Tave posted:I mean, what IS the solution to cheating otherwise? 
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Aug 14, 2015 17:52
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Kai Tave posted:I mean, what IS the solution to cheating otherwise? Above, but also generally you can point out a mistake or blatant cheating. In Roll, all the rolling is done in secret, so there's nothing really stopping somone from just, rotating their die to the face they want. Aside from 'Don't be a horrible lovely cheater baby'.
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Aug 14, 2015 17:53
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AMooseDoesStuff posted:Above, but also generally you can point out a mistake or blatant cheating. In Roll, all the rolling is done in secret, so there's nothing really stopping somone from just, rotating their die to the face they want. Aside from 'Don't be a horrible lovely cheater baby'. On the one hand sure, hiding dice rolls makes it that much easier for someone to cheat. On the other hand, some dude was cheating at some big name Ticket to Ride tournament and only got called out because a million people were watching him over a stream, the other players and judges didn't seem to notice what was going on at all, which suggests to me that while hidden resolutions may make it easier for someone to cheat that if someone's a horrible lovely cheater baby they're gonna be one no matter what the game is, and so "don't play with dumb assholes" seems like the most sensible advice you can give regarding cheaters. Because silvergoose is right, who the hell cheats at board games? I guess if you're playing with lots of random strangers the possibility increases that you'll run into dumb assholes, but even even a halfway curated group I would think that anyone who was the sort of person to cheat at Roll to the Galaxy (or Dark Moon or anything really) would come out in the wash.
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Aug 14, 2015 18:01
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Yeah, I don't know why I'm getting so worked up over Roll, don't play with assholes, folks.
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Aug 14, 2015 18:03
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Mechanically, I'm not totally convinced that cheating at Roll would improve your chances of winning much. Players end up with a lot of ways to manipulate their dice results anyway, and you're still bound by which phases people select. Anything less obvious than stacking like 8 dice on Settle to pop out 3 planets in one turn is going to just be equivalent to a normal result, I think
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Aug 14, 2015 18:06
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Kai Tave posted:I mean, what IS the solution to cheating otherwise? canyoneer posted:So they played [Munchkin] for hours and hours over the next two days I haven't played Roll so I don't know if this is a real issue or a hypothetical that could apply elsewhere, but one issue could be inadvertent cheating. That is, it's not cheating with malicious or dickish intent, but just from a proper lack of understanding in the rules. I've seen it happen in other games until we called someone out and put an asterisk on the game score, to be referred to forevermore.
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Aug 14, 2015 18:10
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deadly_pudding posted:Mechanically, I'm not totally convinced that cheating at Roll would improve your chances of winning much. Players end up with a lot of ways to manipulate their dice results anyway, and you're still bound by which phases people select. Anything less obvious than stacking like 8 dice on Settle to pop out 3 planets in one turn is going to just be equivalent to a normal result, I think Though to be fair, on average, someone's gonna roll something weird at least once during a game. Or everyone is. Or all rolls will be perfectly average. Luck's a weird thing, certain people in this thread aside.
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Aug 14, 2015 18:11
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quote:On the one hand sure, hiding dice rolls makes it that much easier for someone to cheat. On the other hand, some dude was cheating at some big name Ticket to Ride tournament and only got called out because a million people were watching him over a stream, the other players and judges didn't seem to notice what was going on at all, which suggests to me that while hidden resolutions may make it easier for someone to cheat that if someone's a horrible lovely cheater baby they're gonna be one no matter what the game is, and so "don't play with dumb assholes" seems like the most sensible advice you can give regarding cheaters. Because silvergoose is right, who the hell cheats at board games? I guess if you're playing with lots of random strangers the possibility increases that you'll run into dumb assholes, but even even a halfway curated group I would think that anyone who was the sort of person to cheat at Roll to the Galaxy (or Dark Moon or anything really) would come out in the wash. I don't think many people actually want to cheat, or think of themselves as cheaters... but the potential to cheat in a hidden way can hurt a game (especially when played with strangers). Lots of people who've quit playing FPS games because of "all the cheaters" may have never actually seen a cheater; just knowing it's possible can suck out some joy. It's especially problematic if it's combined/partially combined with "rules that take attention to follow"- say, something like "you can't build a duplicate card in 7 Wonders". If you've got something where you can cheat without being blatant, and where players might cheat unintentionally, you open up a lot of potential for, uh, negative interactions. Like, say in some hypothetical game you had to roll a dice in secret and then just had to remember to do something later based on what the dice was. Maybe you forgot, maybe you're cheating, maybe everyone is just getting a little frustrated that you keep rolling Turtlenecks. I mean, yeah, don't play with jerks... but, again, even non-jerky players can potentially have games ruined by stuff like this. It's not a huge deal (and I think Roll is probably fine - as you really have to "affirmatively cheat" it sounds like, and most people don't want to straight-up cheat) but it's a negative point on a game design I think. That is to say: it's better if it's easy to follow the rules, and for it to be clear that your opponents are as well. Edit: Yay, A Distant Plain just made the cut. jmzero fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 18:16
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The good news is that the rules for dice assignment in Roll are basically trivial - line 'em up, move 1, maybe move another if you want. And people who really want to roll the right thing can always invest in that ability directly or indirectly, so you never really feel like things are totally out of control. I mean, sometimes you just naturally roll 8 Explore but I've never seen anyone even hint that they might consider changing it because the chances of a truly lovely roll are really low and you've got the power to fix that.
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Aug 14, 2015 18:23
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GrandpaPants posted:I haven't played Roll so I don't know if this is a real issue or a hypothetical that could apply elsewhere, but one issue could be inadvertent cheating. That is, it's not cheating with malicious or dickish intent, but just from a proper lack of understanding in the rules. I've seen it happen in other games until we called someone out and put an asterisk on the game score, to be referred to forevermore. Well, sure generally in games you can witness or point out mistakes (or cheating) but from what I remember of the one time I sorta played Roll For The Galaxy, the only thing being done in secret is rolling and assigning dice. The resolution is still public, right? So on one hand removing ability to point out mistakes or misplays, yeah, but there's nothing to get wrong in the secret part of Roll, is there?
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Aug 14, 2015 18:44
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jmzero posted:I don't think many people actually want to cheat, or think of themselves as cheaters... but the potential to cheat in a hidden way can hurt a game (especially when played with strangers). Lots of people who've quit playing FPS games because of "all the cheaters" may have never actually seen a cheater; just knowing it's possible can suck out some joy. This isn't cheating so much as "failure to pay attention" though, and you can't really do much to fix that either. I've played games of Kemet, the least obfuscated and random-roll-y game there is, where halfway into the next day phase someone's realized oh poo poo, I didn't discard one of my combat cards last time. That thing up there about "you can't build a duplicate card in 7 Wonders?" Guess what the guy teaching me the game for the first time didn't mention? There's a vast gulf between "cheating unintentionally" i.e. making mistakes and doing it deliberately though, and I don't think a board game designer is really under the same obligation to cheat-proof their stuff the same way online video game designers are since one type of game is going to be a free for all with potentially millions of random players around the world and one is a small, face to face group, more likely than not comprised of people you already know. Maybe I'm just too optimistic, but when I got Dark Moon my first thought wasn't "oh geez, this could be so easy for someone to cheat at" because while some of the people I play board games with can be annoyingly dumb at times (no, you cannot set your starting pyramids in Kemet to 3/0/0 stop asking) I can't honestly imagine any of them deciding they're going to cheat at a board game like an rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 14, 2015 18:46
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Kai Tave posted:That thing up there about "you can't build a duplicate card in 7 Wonders?" Guess what the guy teaching me the game for the first time didn't mention? Same thing happened to me, oops. A co-player pointed out I had a dupe card in a game during scoring and I was like "..... so?"  I was that guy
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Aug 14, 2015 18:48
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My group usually handles "accidental cheats" in one of two ways. 1) If it's your first game, you are forgiven and can go back. If going back is not possible we'll figure something out or just let it go. 2) If it's not your first game and you should better then you pay the price. In the 7 Wonders example, if someone who wasn't a learner tried to play a duplicate we would just force them to trash for cash instead. If it wasn't discovered until the of the game we would retroactively trash it for cash, essentially converting whatever it was into 1 vp (because it's 3 gold).
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Aug 14, 2015 18:53
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I follow card game rules, where if you try to cheat (deliberate or accidental) and someone notices they just say something and you take it back. If this happens more than once in a game or something similar then you get yelled at and depending on the game state penalized. If it goes unnoticed then congratulations you cheated successfully!
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Aug 14, 2015 19:00
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My Amazon order from the big sale came in. Got Castles of Burgundy, Libertalia, Dixit, 7 Wonders, and Love Letter. A pile of new games is just the best 
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Aug 14, 2015 19:00
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I sent my big order in but it's mostly just the level 99 blood tithe  So many sleeves.
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Aug 14, 2015 19:14
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Andarel posted:I sent my big order in but it's mostly just the level 99 blood tithe Jfc, are you planning on sleeving millenium blades or something?
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Aug 14, 2015 19:32
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I will let my copy of Millennium Blades get so ratty it literally disintegrates in my hands before I try sleeving that poo poo.
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Aug 14, 2015 19:35
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I've already done that, that took a lot of sleeves too. When I get a non-prototype copy I dunno if I'll sleeve that, depends on the quality of the cardstock but it's pretty rough to manipulate the huge market deck with it sleeved. Nah, look at the red/blue: it's a 6-person order where half of us are preparing to sleeve shittons of BattleCON cards that'll be arriving next week.
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Aug 14, 2015 19:35
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You don't want to know what my Twilight Struggle deck looks like.
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Aug 14, 2015 20:09
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I sleeved twistrug. My rear end in a top hat friends bend cards and put them in their pockets.
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Aug 14, 2015 20:11
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Lord Frisk posted:I sleeved twistrug. My rear end in a top hat friends bend cards and put them in their pockets. That is insane. I don't let people riffle shuffle my cards and if anyone bends them they get told to cut it out immediately. These games are expensive, don't tolerate that poo poo. If they persist, make them pay for the games or don't play with them.
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Aug 14, 2015 20:12
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Malloreon posted:None of those answers were condescending. Can we keep a tally in the OP for every time someone who thinks they're having fun is heroically corrected? It might keep out the riff raff who are busy enjoying themselves and starting to get dangerously interested in the hobby.
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Aug 14, 2015 20:26
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Since it's borderline on topic: Has anybody figured out how to make 5 player Legendary more plausible? (Outside of telling 2 people they can't play.) We really enjoy playing the game, but our loss to win ratio at 5 players is silly. The problem stems from pushing 10 villains into/through the city before you even have a shot at using the first card you may have been lucky enough to purchase in the first 2 hands. Conversely, in a 3 player game by the time 10 villains get into/through the city you're on your 4th hand. I'm not claiming we're tactical experts and have gone hyper-meta on the game here. We're average players, but seriously...what the.... Has the thought been just don't play it with 5 unless you like to spend time dying with your friends/family?
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Aug 14, 2015 20:33
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