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DE posted:Today Covert Lethality will be changed from ‘lethal damage if undetected’ to ‘lethal damage on stealth-finishers’. Covert Lethality is supposed to grant Lethal Damage for stealth tactics and not ground-slamming or obliterating blind enemies. We know this may come as a disappointment as many Tenno have sworn their life to the power of this Mod however the myriad of unintended uses was proving more powerful than intended. Whatever, dumb. DE posted:After considering the use of Covert Lethality for Exalted Blade a debate ensued about the use of melee Mods that are specific to certain weapons; again, it was decided that while we intended for certain melee Mods to amplify Exalted Blade it didn't make sense for all melee Mods to apply. For example, currently the buff from Justice Blades works for Exalted Blade even though the mod is an augment for the Dual Cleavers. No DE. Don't keep walking towards that ledge. It's dangerous. Don't do it. DON'T! Oh no...  DE posted:Next week we intend to limit the Melee mods that work with Exalted Blade strictly to generic mods (ie: Pressure Point, Molten Impact, etc) but not weapon-specific augments. We appreciate that this will remove certain fitting strategies however we feel that those combos were not the intention of the ability and want to avoid making it so that you only want to play Excalibur with one or two specific weapons. Oh gently caress DE. You did it. You stepped off the ledge again. How many times do you need to break your fun Oh DE 
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Aug 14, 2015 22:28
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I blame people on the official forums screaming for a nerf because they can kill lv 20-25 enemies on Sedna too hard (yes really). Also, DE's insistence that Excalibur can never be good.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:33
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Would Excalibur really be so bad after this? It's still getting power from warframe slots, pressure point, and elemental stuff. Or is it just good, rather than top-tier?
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Aug 14, 2015 22:37
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The weapon specific mods were just cool, it wasn't like a vital thing to have; I've been tearing things up without it. Remove the warframe augments that Excalibur has because they're all bad. Give me 3 exalted blade augments that all do something like the syndicate mods did 
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Aug 14, 2015 22:40
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TacMan posted:The weapon specific mods were just cool, it wasn't like a vital thing to have; I've been tearing things up without it. Not Empty Quoting.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:42
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Would Excalibur really be so bad after this?
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Aug 14, 2015 22:42
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Nordick posted:gently caress no, it still wrecks face like no tomorrow even without those mods. Goons are just being hyperbolic crybabies again. Is it so bad to just want to keep my radial proc, for an anime explosion to go with my anime sword? Seriously.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:45
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Countdown to it being called 'degenerate gameplay' in...
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Aug 14, 2015 22:50
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Nordick posted:gently caress no, it still wrecks face like no tomorrow even without those mods. Goons are just being hyperbolic crybabies again. You're absolutely correct! Consider this: when using Pressure Point and Steel Charge for a combined total of +180% base damage, Exalted Blade runs 700 base damage per strike. With a +100% base damage Syndicate mod on your weapon, it rises to 950 per strike. The loss of the Syndicate mod reduces the damage to about 74% of what it was with the Syndicate mod, which is significant but hardly crippling. It's still a huge amount of spammable damage with infinite punchthrough. The only valid complaint here is the stupidity of DE's reasoning, as outlined by BeAuMaN. Nobody gives a drat whether they have freedom of choice in what weapon they use with Excal because you're never going to see or use the thing; they already screwed that pooch by making Excal a one-dimensional gimmick frame whose primary function supersedes all other forms of gunplay or melee in favor of its own built-in attack method. Hell, people are still going to use specific weapons with Excal, they just changed the criteria: now all that matters is having an extra polarity or two so that you can fit all the highest-drain damage mods. Edit: I'll grant that the loss of the Syndicate explosion proc is a valid concern, but the counterpoint is, Excal's ult lets you use Life Strike from rifle range. You're not really losing much!
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Aug 14, 2015 23:00
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Cathair posted:Edit: I'll grant that the loss of the Syndicate explosion proc is a valid concern, but the counterpoint is, Excal's ult lets you use Life Strike from rifle range. You're not really losing much! How long until the remove that too?
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Aug 14, 2015 23:06
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"Hotfix, removed Fury and Berserker from Exalted Blade list, because no one really wants to rapid-fire energy waves  ... Why is no one using Excalibur anymore? First Mag, now this!"
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Aug 14, 2015 23:15
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Neo_Crimson posted:How long until the remove that too? How long until they "rework" Exalted Blade altogether and make it have a range of 2 meters?
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Aug 14, 2015 23:18
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Why am I obligated to use Steel Charge? What if I want to use Energy Siphon or Corrosive Projection, auras that help out my whole team and not just me? Maybe I wanted to do that and still have good damage thanks to my syndicate mod. Maybe I also don't want to use Life Strike.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:19
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I understand why they have the survive or die alerts on the early planets, so that new players can run them too, but I really wish they were later. I got a rank 0 person in my last pubbie attempt that was still using the mk-1 weapons and I felt really bad for them.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:37
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Hellioning posted:I understand why they have the survive or die alerts on the early planets, so that new players can run them too, but I really wish they were later. I got a rank 0 person in my last pubbie attempt that was still using the mk-1 weapons and I felt really bad for them. You should feel happy for them. You're carrying them to free xp and potatoes. Potato number 2 is a lot more valuable for them than potato 561 for higher level players.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:53
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Neo_Crimson posted:How long until the remove that too? Yeah, sure. The whole system was designed with ranged channeling in mind, hence the low base energy consumption. This was outlined as a feature, and they even hotfixed it when Life Strike wasn't working with the waves properly. You're supposed to be able to heal yourself at range, they clearly had it in mind in the first place. And we can expect them to take that away soon, because clearly, gutting an intended core feature is exactly the same as nerfing an edge case that they, to all appearances, just didn't think about too hard about when they slapped this thing together. Or, maybe you're just being a reactionary baby. Hmmm. Tallgeese posted:Why am I obligated to use Steel Charge? Oh, come on. Before this news came along people were already telling me I was being a scrub to use anything but Steel Charge on my Excal just because it was the best, even though it wasn't really needed. Hell, you're a big fan of that line of thinking yourself, I've seen you talking all kinds of poo poo about how you just can't imagine why people would want to use anything but this certain combo of optimal nuke frames, as if the only point of the game is to be the objective best at all times. Arguments about being locked into a certain aura have some merit but it seems disingenuous coming from you. But I digress. Let's examine what Exalted Blade looks like with only Pressure Point, no Steel Charge: 550 base damage. With a Syndicate mod, 800 base damage. The loss of the Syndicate mod in this case reduces it to about 69% of the damage it dealt with the Syndicate mod. Getting more uncomfortable here, but still not crippling. Also, "Maybe I don't want to use Life Strike"? Are you for real? How is that any different from saying "maybe I don't want to use a Syndicate mod" under the current system? If you want to make your life harder for no real reason, go ahead, but that doesn't have much bearing on the rest of us. The point is, Excalibur is not ruined. I agree completely that this is an unecessary change and the publicly stated reason for it is nonsensical, but if you look at the math it's not enough to make the frame bad again. I have no problem with discussing bad changes but getting so histrionic over exaggerations is just obnoxious.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:05
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Hm yes my way of playing is perfectly okay, it's your way that is silly and you are silly for thinking it shouldn't be changed
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Aug 15, 2015 00:08
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Hm yes my way of playing is perfectly okay, it's your way that is silly and you are silly for thinking it shouldn't be changed 'Your way' of playing didn't really change, that's kinda the whole point. You can do the exact same thing you used to do and it will just take you marginally more time to kill everything in the same tile just like you always used to. The gently caress did you just say, do you even know?
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Aug 15, 2015 00:23
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Why are you getting personal, Cathair? I seriously didn't use Life Strike, because I wanted my Exalted Blade up forever and did not want to drain my energy with channeling. I also deliberately did not use Steel Charge because I always go out of my way to set up an aura that'll help my whole team, and not just me. By this token, I tend to not like Valkyrs who take it either. Maybe I like using powerful setups so everyone can relax and get their farming done with a minimum of stress? God forbid I try to be a team player, I guess.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:26
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Cathair posted:Also, "Maybe I don't want to use Life Strike"? Are you for real? How is that any different from saying "maybe I don't want to use a Syndicate mod" under the current system? If you want to make your life harder for no real reason, go ahead, but that doesn't have much bearing on the rest of us. I run Equilibrium, Slash Dash for damage reduction when it gets hairy, and rely on the syndicate proc to keep my health up. I don't run Life Strike at all, nor do I channel (since you have to mash Slash Dash for the targeting to work acceptably). Losing out on the health regen, radial proc, and damage from the syndicate mod is definitely going to put a dent in my playstyle. e;oh, and I have my Excal's aura slot forma'd for dash because yes, people do appreciate having auras that benefit the entire squad. Steel Charge is generally a pretty selfish choice, and I try not to run it unless the frame came with a V polarity that I haven't forma'd out yet. Souplesse fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 00:31
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Countdown to it being called 'degenerate gameplay' in... You're a loving tool who doesn't know how to use words more complex than 'countdown'.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:42
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Would Excalibur really be so bad after this? It's still getting power from warframe slots, pressure point, and elemental stuff. No, it will still be top tier. You are just not forced to bring a syndicate weapon to squeeze out even more damage out. This is just the same as goons and pubbies whining about them shutting down Viver. You can still farm somewhere else, but it's just slower and less mindnumbingly easy. Excalibur, now, is just ridiculously strong and fun to play and this slight nerf is better than just outright nerfing Exalted Blade's damage or energy consumption. They're just taking away the cherry on top of a large sundae fudge. Covert Lethality nerf sucks big time though because daggers become poo poo again. Sure, it's a bit OP when it works with blinds but making is stealth takedown only limits it to the use of "practically never" in regular missions.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:49
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I never reconfigured my Excal's aura off of Bar polarity either, regardless of what's optimal.  I assumed some of you did based on past experience with your preferences, and it was genuinely surprising to read otherwise when some people in chat often act like it's terribly strange when I express a desire for non-optimal playstyles to be viable. And like I said, it shouldn't be a make-or-break difference to the damage output whether or not you run Steel Charge in the first place. Not always having a Syndicate heal proc is kind of a drag, but hmm, gee, it's not like people run every other frame in the game without necessarily having syndicate-proc weapons on. However will we cope, surely this means Excal is dead and you should sell all the poo poo you made to use with him. 
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Aug 15, 2015 00:49
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You say you don't care about optimal builds but you keep getting on our case for not using Life Strike 
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Aug 15, 2015 00:51
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When mommy and daddy fight, it's the children who get hurt the worst.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:52
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Thank god Excalibur got nerfed, it almost had some advantages over Mesa. Not anymore 
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Aug 15, 2015 01:06
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Wait, so I saw someone further up imply Fury and Berserker are off the list too. What's their loving excuse for that? They're not syndicate or weapon-specific, and Fury performs a pretty basic function too! Unless I or the post I inferred this from were misinterpreting things.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:12
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AlphaKretin posted:Wait, so I saw someone further up imy Fury and Berserker are off the list too. What's their loving excuse for that? They're not syndicate or weapon-specific, and Fury performs a pretty basic function too! Unless I or the post I inferred this from were misinterpreting things. It was a joke, they aren't actually off the list  I was implying the slippery slope approach that DE seems to enjoy. First they came for the syndicate mods, and I did not speak because I did not use them, ect
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Aug 15, 2015 01:13
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Malachite_Dragon posted:It was a joke, they aren't actually off the list Oh, phew. 
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Aug 15, 2015 01:17
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Seriously guys this is literally worse than the official forums. Literally. Warkak posted:
Okay this is legitimately lovely since many enemies don't have a stealth finisher animation. Really if it wasn't for that, this nerf would be totally within reason. This was a mod for stealth runs, not for cheesing enemies with ground slams and blinds. I can see why they would choose to change the effects to match their intentions. Warkak posted:
So y'all realize that the major reason behind parkour 2.0 was because people were using specific melee weapons because they let us move around better? They specifically altered it to make sure we used melee weapons because we liked them, not because we had to use them to effectively move though the level. So that in mind, yes, of course making specific weapons more effective with Exalted Blade would cause them to rethink this idea. It basically goes perpendicular to their current design philosophy. That said, anime explosions are cool, so I would totally be down with an Excal augment that mimics this effect, as has been suggested here. Seriously, post that into the forums. Malachite_Dragon posted:Countdown to it being called 'degenerate gameplay' in... You realize this is a real term right? Like game developers actually use this term? This isn't an internet tumblr/reddit thing. And yes, when developers say "yo we really don't want people doing this with the tools we gave them" that does fall under the definition of degenerate gameplay. Why did this term becomes the new 'cuck' for goons?
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Aug 15, 2015 01:19
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Malachite_Dragon posted:You say you don't care about optimal builds but you keep getting on our case for not using Life Strike The problem with most 'optimal' builds is that they often restrict the player's options for convenience or things that are just fun. Life Strike isn't in the same category because it doesn't do any of those things- it's completely inert until you need it, the energy cost is minimal when you do need it, it's easy to use, and it doesn't change your playstyle at all. It does cost a mod slot, but if you were already willing to give up a slot for a Syndicate weapon mod, what's the difference? It's not like you're losing anything more, for a solution capable of filling the same niche. It doesn't even cost as many mod points, only 4 for an unranked copy, which is what you should be using for efficiency reasons anyway. The point is not that everyone has to use it, the point is that it's available if you feel like the lack of health regen is an issue. You're losing one way of dealing with a problem, but there's another very similar way of solving said problem which is almost as good. To refuse to use it and then say everything is terrible because you can't have hp regen is just stupidity.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:20
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SSNeoman posted:So y'all realize that the major reason behind parkour 2.0 was because people were using specific melee weapons because they let us move around better? They specifically altered it to make sure we used melee weapons because we liked them, not because we had to use them to effectively move though the level. So that in mind, yes, of course making specific weapons more effective with Exalted Blade would cause them to rethink this idea. It basically goes perpendicular to their current design philosophy. But... but... I legitimately liked using the tipedo. edit: I had weird issues landing the kick launch with my obex yesterday. I always found it pretty forgiving in the past, but for the life of me, I couldn't get it to hit. Maybe they changed it to not launch them if they die from the impact and the stuff I was running was too low level to not die in one hit. I hope that's the case cause launching mooks was the best part aside from lightning fast punches. RosaParksOfDip fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 01:21
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RosaParksOfDip posted:But... but... I legitimately liked using the tipedo. Well it's a good thing they didn't remove the tipedo! That would be awful. Now you can use the tipedo while I bring my galatine and you won't speed ahead of me!
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Aug 15, 2015 01:22
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SSNeoman posted:Seriously guys this is literally worse than the official forums. Literally. Make it not work on slams then, or make loving stealth finishers for every enemy before doing this poo poo.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:23
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RosaParksOfDip posted:But... but... I legitimately liked using the tipedo. I did and still do, though I am an Orthos p man now since that poo poo has ballah range with p reach  But you get my point though, right? We didn't use the Tipedo because we wanted to, we did it because it made us more effective in areas besides melee attacks, namely letting us soar across rooms. Sure we liked the Tipedo, but plenty of people didn't. And if they used a weapon like the Scindo or the Jat Kittag, there is no way in hell they would be able to keep up with a Tipedo user. This new system means that we can use what we want without being gimped when it comes to movement. e:f; sorta b Nalesh posted:Make it not work on slams then, or make loving stealth finishers for every enemy before doing this poo poo. Agreed. That's why I said that part was legitimately lovely.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:28
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How high level do enemies have to get that a stealth finisher with a fully-modded weapon isn't going to kill them without the new mod, anyhow? They really ought to turn that part of the mod to "stealth finishers take half as long to execute [at full strength]" at this point, to have something that's actually useful for that play mode but not abuseable anywhere else.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:34
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That would require fine-tuning mods instead of taking a sledgehammer approach to changes, and DE just doesn't roll like that.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:35
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SSNeoman posted:I did and still do, though I am an Orthos p man now since that poo poo has ballah range with p reach I sorta see the point on both sides, though. If you were using the tipedo to speed through a mission for mobility, odds are you didn't care about killing stuff at all. it was 100% gotta go fast and do the objective and get my loot for completion. If it was a mission where I was actually spending time doing stuff, I brought whatever the hell I felt like because if it was pubs, odds are I'd end up at the exit before them regardless. The only time I'd feel obligated to bring a tipedo outside of my own enjoyment was if I was being carried by goons and didn't want to be a bigger burden by forcing them to wait for me at the exit. But yeah, I can see how people would feel obligated to always bring a tipedo for speed.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:36
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SSNeoman posted:Seriously guys this is literally worse than the official forums. Literally. You sure about that? Really? I could find you some things. Pretty easily, too.  SSNeoman posted:Okay this is legitimately lovely since many enemies don't have a stealth finisher animation. Really if it wasn't for that, this nerf would be totally within reason. Nah, it would've made the mod practically useless even if every enemy had the proper animations. Seriously, how often do stealth finishers with a well-modded weapon fail to kill anything in the level ranges found in missions where stealth runs are relevant? The major- and only- benefit of the mod is that it allowed you to make fast kills without the cool but way too slow animations that are nothing but a hindrance if you're trying to do a 'real' stealth run. I feel like this is a bigger deal than any Excal syndicate bullshit because it really does remove a fun potential playstyle from the game. Why couldn't they have just made it so it doesn't work on Excal's energy blade, and/or make it not trigger on enemies under the effect of Radial Blind? It's kind of like how they could've made Greedy Pull affect only loot and not energy, but instead chose to remove the only reason why anyone would ever use it.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:38
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Goddammit DE.
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Aug 15, 2015 01:39
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