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Pope Guilty posted:I like that they recommend you only read right-wingers talking poo poo about leftists and not, you know, what actual leftists believe. Socialists are a memetic hazard, they will hypnotize you with their toxic memes and you will no longer be able to maximize your utilons.
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Aug 14, 2015 15:51
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| # ? May 9, 2024 19:17 |
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Freaks create, progs occupy. Progs will forever attempt to destroy the beautiful magical spaces for free speech that social outcasts create, because they hate all that is good.
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Aug 14, 2015 15:58
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Freaks create, progs occupy. Progs will forever attempt to destroy the beautiful magical spaces for free speech that social outcasts create, because they hate all that is good. Now let's all be seated and open our copies of Temporary Autonomous Zone to the part about how great pedophilia is.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:02
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Pope Guilty posted:Now let's all be seated and open our copies of Temporary Autonomous Zone to the part about how great pedophilia is. https://twitter.com/search?q=freaks%20create%20progs%20occupy&src=typd
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Aug 14, 2015 16:05
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hah, Christ.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:09
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Pope Guilty posted:hah, Christ. There are years of bitterness that go back to usenet forums here.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:19
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The Vosgian Beast posted:There are years of bitterness that go back to usenet forums here. I'm honestly a bit surprised NRX types don't congregate on UseNet, the social network the technologically illiterate masses don't know about and don't know how to use.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:30
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Marcuse is an actual leftist, but they're just employing him as a club to beat other leftists with. They've also obviously never read A Critique of Pure Tolerance because the Marcuse essay in that argues for intolerance of the Right and intolerance of any opposition to socialism, up to and including revolution and violent purges of right wing dissenters. Political Whores has a new favorite as of 06:14 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 16:47
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That's the point, they think all leftists want to kill all conservatives and institute a dictatorship. They already project themselves onto their enemies, Marcuse's essay gives them something to brandish while screaming "SEE? SEE?" 
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Aug 14, 2015 16:58
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Woolie Wool posted:That's the point, they think all leftists want to kill all conservatives and institute a dictatorship. They already project themselves onto their enemies, Marcuse's essay gives them something to brandish while screaming "SEE? SEE?" That's fine because I tend to agree with Marcuse, insofar as I would have no problem using violence to prevent a reactionary regime from taking power.
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Aug 14, 2015 18:41
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Marcuse is an actual leftist, but they're just employing him as a club to beat other leftists with. These guys routinely call loving Hayek a leftist, because he said some non-insane things and thought society was a good idea.
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Aug 14, 2015 20:01
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Most NRx types couldn't fellatiate Hayek any harder. They're the kind of people who look at the Larry Summer's World Bank memo and see completely reasonable ethical thinking.
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Aug 14, 2015 20:12
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A White Guy posted:Most NRx types couldn't fellatiate Hayek any harder. They're the kind of people who look at the Larry Summer's World Bank memo and see completely reasonable ethical thinking. Larry Summers is very close to a real world supervillain, especially around 1991. Wasn't that shithead one of the big architects of that 'shock therapy' policy that demanded absolutely everything in Russia be privatized as fast as possible post Soviet Union?
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Aug 14, 2015 20:28
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Night10194 posted:Larry Summers is very close to a real world supervillain, especially around 1991. Wasn't that shithead one of the big architects of that 'shock therapy' policy that demanded absolutely everything in Russia be privatized as fast as possible post Soviet Union? He was also one of Obama's advisors, along with Geithner, early in his administration! ... 
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Aug 14, 2015 20:29
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Marcuse is an actual leftist, but they're just employing him as a club to beat other leftists with. Kind of like Fredrik DeBoer, actually. Interesting, that's a leftist who's loved and RTed all the time by actual nazis and NRx.
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Aug 15, 2015 00:41
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Instead of being slightly bothered by Scott, I've tried going directly to the source - Moldbug. He is certainly a highly intelligent individual - in the sense of intelligence that is captured by IQ. But he is also surprisingly skilled in the art of completely ignoring reality to an extent that his writings are basically science fiction. Consider: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.de/2007/04/essential-idea-of-leftism.html quote:The essential idea of leftism is that the world should be governed by scholars. ... note that there is no meaningful distinction between a scholar and a priest. ... Can anyone find an exception to this rule - ie, a mass movement that is generally described as "leftist," but which does not in practice imply the rule of scholars, or at least people who think of themselves as scholars? Pol Pot, which I am sure he would consider a leftist, not a monarchist (although he's certainly much closer to monarchy than to democracy), killed everyone who was in any way suspect of being an intellectual. He murdered everyone who spoke a second language, everyone with glasses, everyone not a peasant. He himself had a degree - he went to a technical college in France to study electrical engineering. Now by some perverted twist, this may be seen as him being a scholar. But he certainly didn't see himself as a scholar, and his actions ensured that in practice, the next rule would not be that of scholars, because as soon as he and those closest to him were dead, there'd be no scholars left to rule. Stalin can be seen as a scholar by Moldbug's terms, but after him came a range of people like - Khruchchev, who seemingly never got a degree and was a metal worker - Brezhnev, another engineer - Andropov, who got his diploma via ten years of sporadic correspondence courses and ostensibly spend most of his time doing anything but study - Chernenko, who had no academic credentials Mao famously had a cult of physicality. On the other hand, if you think of those organisations and schools which favoured the rule of priests, they strike one as decisively right-wing. That is, the catholic church, most islamist clubs, and so on. So you can see Moldbug's idea, and I guess you can imagine the perturbed state of mind which may led him to such an obviously wrong statement. But what I find hard to understand his how people take this man serious at all after having read this thing.
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Aug 15, 2015 12:12
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Cingulate posted:Instead of being slightly bothered by Scott, I've tried going directly to the source - Moldbug. He is certainly a highly intelligent individual - in the sense of intelligence that is captured by IQ. But he is also surprisingly skilled in the art of completely ignoring reality to an extent that his writings are basically science fiction. Consider: This being early days for UR, his commenters call BS pretty much from the start. Moldbug learned from this, and didn't write short, concise, disprovable posts henceforth, but rambling screeds where he spent a few thousand words setting up his careful redefinitions of English words which he then pretended he was using normatively.
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Aug 15, 2015 15:13
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Wait, what - is Modlbug the guy who came up with this dumb "Red Pill" meme (as in, adapting the already stupid Matrix symbolism to the context of right wing politics)? http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.de/2007/04/case-against-democracy-ten-red-pills.html
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Aug 15, 2015 16:51
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Cingulate posted:Wait, what - is Modlbug the guy who came up with this dumb "Red Pill" meme (as in, adapting the already stupid Matrix symbolism to the context of right wing politics)?  WELL SPOTTED! That's the earliest sighting I know of for "red pill" as "right-wing enlightenment".
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Aug 15, 2015 17:24
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Does that predate the redpill/PUA/MRA connection?
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Aug 15, 2015 17:28
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Moldbug posted:The essential idea of leftism is that the world should be governed by scholars. ... note that there is no meaningful distinction between a scholar and a priest. ... Can anyone find an exception to this rule - ie, a mass movement that is generally described as "leftist," but which does not in practice imply the rule of scholars, or at least people who think of themselves as scholars? As you know, the tools most commonly used by scholars are the hammer and sickle. (Those symbols certainly didn't reference the rising up of factory workers and farm workers against capital. Sickles make excellent pens, and hammers are used to smooth out paper.)
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Aug 15, 2015 17:35
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neonnoodle posted:Does that predate the redpill/PUA/MRA connection? Appears to. A quick Google search with time constraints on "red pill" "pickup artist" shows lots of hits in 2010, less in 2009, nothing from 2008 and a blog post from September 2007.
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Aug 15, 2015 17:39
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neonnoodle posted:Does that predate the redpill/PUA/MRA connection?  The only conclusion we can draw is that nobody cares about Moldbug. Curvature of Earth has a new favorite as of 07:14 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 17:51
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What the hell is that giant spike in 2009 from?
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Aug 15, 2015 18:07
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I'm checking a few "red pill" sites and the earliest mention of the red pill on there I can find is from 2009. Though maybe I just don't know enough fascist blogs.
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Aug 15, 2015 18:22
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Nolanar posted:What the hell is that giant spike in 2009 from? An MRA shot a bunch of people in 2009. This brought a lot of attention to the movement. (Naturally, MRAs' own words justified the extremely negative press they got.)
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Aug 15, 2015 18:26
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Christ, I thought Elliot Roger was the first MRA to go on a shooting spree
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Aug 15, 2015 18:33
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Tetracube posted:Christ, I thought Elliot Roger was the first MRA to go on a shooting spree iirc he wasn't even the first that month
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Aug 15, 2015 19:07
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Tetracube posted:Christ, I thought Elliot Roger was the first MRA to go on a shooting spree Not by a longshot.
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Aug 15, 2015 19:14
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Neither of these are MRAs proper. Not even Rogers. They were violent misogynists for sure, as are, with various degrees of violence, MRAs, but that's it.
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Aug 15, 2015 19:28
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Cingulate posted:Neither of these are MRAs proper. Not even Rogers. They were violent misogynists for sure, as are, with various degrees of violence, MRAs, but that's it. This is a distinction without a difference in practice, particularly given Rogers' manifesto being written in manosphere jargon. There's not much reason sensible people should pay attention to the internal gradations between MRA/MGTOW/etc just because it turns out that arseholes hate each other as much as they hate women. (I mean, you could try really hard to find a reason to, but you'd have to try really hard.) But basically, if you hear about a "senseless killing", it's likely to be someone with an extensive track record of misogynist outbursts. divabot has a new favorite as of 20:21 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 20:10
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divabot posted:This is a distinction without a difference in practice, particularly given Rogers' manifesto being written in manosphere jargon. There's no reason sensible people should pay attention to the internal gradations between MRA/MGTOW/etc just because it turns out that arseholes hate each other as much as they hate women. The pre-Rogers cases where not part of any of these groups. divabot posted:But basically, if you hear about a "senseless killing", it's likely to be someone with an extensive track record of misogynist outbursts.
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Aug 15, 2015 20:20
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divabot posted:This is a distinction without a difference EDIT: Cingulate posted:Yes, but that's next to irrelevant a statement in this context, given the demographics of murder and the nature of society. I'm not sure how that's irrelevant, unless you take it for granted that a man prone to violent outbursts will always specifically hate women. I would gree that it's nearly redundant to say that spree killers are generally misogynistic, but to say it's irrelevant is kind of messed up. DStecks has a new favorite as of 20:25 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 20:22
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I'm trying to be charitable to Moldbug (because if you're not, he's completely unreadable to begin with), and it doesn't work. It's clear he's in way over his head, which is bad when his shtick is being above it all. http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.de/2007/06/rawlsian-god-cryptocalvinism-in-action.html quote:Rawls tells him that an ideal society will be the one chosen by arbitrary humans who are unaware of the position they are to occupy in that society. So, for example, a Rawlsian might ask: who should be paid more, a NASCAR driver or a truck driver? The observer behind the veil of ignorance is likely to say the truck driver should be paid more, because driving in the Daytona 500 is a hell of a lot of fun and hauling a load of sofas from Chicago to Vegas is no fun at all. Unless the truck driver is paid more to compensate for this inequality, he or she is relatively disadvantaged, an outcome the observer (who can have no reason not to fear assignment to this role) will seek to avoid. (Rawls is not talking about who should get more or whatever. He's talking about what standards should be employed when discussing how to decide who should be paid more; and the standard he proposes is not "everyone should be paid equally, compensating them for the rest of their lives", but "society should be set up so that the floor is as high as possible" - that order of society should be chosen by which those who are the least well-off are better off than in any other possible society. This is not inherently (but only practically) incompatible with monarchy or libertarianism, and it certainly doesn't inherently reduce to, or even entail, anything like "those who have unfun jobs should be given monetary compensation". I think what Moldbug is doing here is (badly) interpolating from Nozick's critique of Rawls, which he claims to have read.) quote:There's an almost medieval flavor to this exercise, and it can lead to an infinite amount of intellectual entertainment. Of course, not even John Rawls can derive "ought" from "is," and there is no rational reason to prefer his definition of an ideal society to anyone else's. Ethics are fundamentally aesthetic. I'm sure he claims the contrary somewhere, but it thus becomes clear Moldbug has not read Kant or Plato either, otherwise he ... wouldn't. Cingulate has a new favorite as of 20:35 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 20:32
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DStecks posted:EDIT: Labels matter here. You're in hell, which is of course terrible, but what circle you're in is still important.
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Aug 15, 2015 20:34
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Cingulate posted:Irrelevant in this context, which is about various subdivisions within the general extreme-right, anti-humanist spectrum. True. Though I'd take great caution with taking their word for the differences. Yer gay Jewish SF neoreactionaries swear they are nothing whatsoever like those awful lumpen alt-right neo-Nazis using the jargon (I'm watching some on Tumblr attempt to disassociate themselves from the alt-right's memetic success with "cuckservative"), except of course there's a completely filled-out continuum from one to the other, they all exchange jargon and ideas and they have interchangeable views. Similarly, MRA/MGTOW and even PUA are pretty much interchangeable in all practical terms, and most manospherians bounce between them pretty freely. divabot has a new favorite as of 21:03 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 21:01
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Pretty much every MRA is a bad day and a cache of ammo away from being a spree shooter tbh
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Aug 15, 2015 21:04
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Here is Moldbug lamenting that Steve Jobs was not made king: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.de/2011/10/thos-carlyle-on-steve-jobs.html Literally. Literally. (A minor note: he's usually about the idea of monarchy as an institution. But here he is wishing for somebody to be chosen on order of merits. Which is, clearly, not the actual praxis of monarchy. In contrast, whenever people like Moldbug - e.g., well-meaning socially conscious Jewish intellectuals* - managed to get their favourites in power, the one-man rule that resulted usually produced gulags rather than iPhones. Also, Jobs was a 2nd generation immigrant to muslim parents.) * strangely, Moldbug is fairly approving of Popper, even though Popper is one of the best ideologues of his hated democracy there is. He even claims to have read The Open Society And Its Enemies. Popper's main political thought was the best government is that which can be replaced without bloodshed - that is, voted out. divabot posted:Similarly, MRA/MGTOW and even PUA are pretty much interchangeable in all practical terms, and most manospherians bounce between them pretty freely.
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Aug 15, 2015 21:27
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Cingulate posted:Neither of these are MRAs proper. Not even Rogers. Cingulate posted:I wasn't talking about Rogers
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Aug 15, 2015 21:31
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Holy poo poo I knew about Sodini but this one is even crazier. A (regrettably) pro click. I can't imagine how the evolutionary study of altruism can explain this and other related mass shootings. Sodini and Rodger both had the common thread of being terrified of being virgins forever (even though Sodini was an aging man who had actually had sexual relationships in the past but thought of himself as "over the hump" and doomed to a lack of sex forever afterwards). I bet if this guy had the internet we'd see similar themes. Is it an ideological action? Is it poor context and generalization skills? Other MRAs considered people like Rodgers and Sodini to be "relatable" in terms of their motives and in fact praised them. Is there any DE overlap with these kinds of reactions?
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