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Larry Parrish posted:This guy writes way too many words to say nothing in particular You get used to it and eventually learn to love it.
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Aug 16, 2015 04:08
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bobjr posted:I thought she said they kept in contact, but never actually met up. That's why she was so excited to meet Max again, all her old friends have basically abandoned her but unlike the main timeline she wasn't angry about Max not seeing her. Right, good catch. So there probably wouldn't be pictures of the two of them together, but she could jump into any regular pictures she has from before the accident to see what she could do from that point. Makes me wish there'd been space in the story to bring Warren in on the time travel secret as well for a Harry Potter trio type of thing, I feel like he'd have been a good sounding board for more complicated solutions. Edit - just finished the episode and okaaay man no wonder all this time traveling quibbling seems like so many split hairs, because the poo poo that's actually going down in the plot is white hot. I mean, what the hell? How does that make sense at all? Jefferson can't be a Prescott, right? So he works for them too on their freaky pet project? And I find it hard to believe Chloe will stay dead, Max will definitely bring the photo-jumping power back out (probably to that selfie Warren took) to change that outcome, assuming the next episode isn't some avant-garde horror thing where you spend the whole time being dismembered by a sadist. Also c'mon girls that was such a transparent trap you have only yourselves to blame. You also have only yourselves to blame for not reporting the body and all your evidence to the police, the newspaper and the internet immediately because you'd just tracked down wealthy serial killers. Dolash fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 04:14
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Nathan is mentally incompetent, there's two of them, one of them has a gun and the other has magic powers. It's really not that stupid of them to try and stop him from getting rid of the body when they clearly have the upperhand.
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Aug 16, 2015 04:56
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Larry Parrish posted:This guy writes way too many words to say nothing in particular You have now met Dolash
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Aug 16, 2015 05:08
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Jimbo Jaggins posted:Nathan is mentally incompetent, there's two of them, one of them has a gun and the other has magic powers. It's really not that stupid of them to try and stop him from getting rid of the body when they clearly have the upperhand. Going to the junkyard, maybe, since they'd already committed to dealing with this on their own. But him texting them about it was a 50/50 split between being an idiot who can't stop blabbing about what he's doing and deliberately provoking them to meet him there so he could attack them. It's not an unreasonable thing to go down, I just knew they were screwed when I had Max run up the ridge overlooking Rachel's grave while Chloe ran straight forward only to get snapped back down to ground level in the cutscene. I wonder if there's any chance Jefferson knows about Max's powers? He could just be kidnapping her as standard Prescott creep operating procedure and got lucky it disabled a trump card he didn't know she had, but we're due for someone with some connection to the time travel and the ecological weirdness. Edit - going back and reading this thread, I see my gut reaction to the ending of episode 4 was pretty off. So maybe Nathan's dad isn't involved with the sick poo poo going on in that dark room at all and it's all just Jefferson? gently caress, that changes a lot. Dolash fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 05:09
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I can forgive them for the alternate timeline being essentially a closed loop that could have been extracted from the plot without many changes. (Not least because I'd put good money on the same mechanic being used in episode 5 to undo the end of episode 4, and they had to introduce Chekov's polaroid at some point in the narrative) It still served the purpose of ending episode 3 on a real holy poo poo moment and leaving people desperate for episode 4 to come out, although admittedly this was a time limited function since any new players can now play them back to back. It also sets up some of the most impactful emotional moments in the story. Even the most cynical stone-hearted goons must have felt some distant tug of feeling over something in there. Whether it was alt Chloe pleading for help to end it, or watching young Max toss that photo in the fire, or her wrenching apology to confused young Chloe after that. I'm sure someone will show up to tell me how much they thought that was stupid, but for me at least it was all pretty well done. And as far as the idea of talking to alt Chloe about time travel and discussing which timeline to keep... wow. That's just cruel. Put yourself in her place: you've been trapped in your pained, immobile, slowly dying body for a few years, you know your time is short and you're right on the verge of wanting to end it all. And then someone comes along and says 'hey, I've got magic powers and I can undo all of this, but as a trade off, your father, whom you love more than anyone in the world, is going to die... whaddya say?' I mean really, I wouldn't put that choice on my worst enemy. It would be interesting if Max does eventually have to tell Chloe about the alternate timeline, though. Maybe in the theoretical episode 5 photo travel scene (I'm betting on the picture with Warren before the party) you have to convince Chloe not to run off looking for Nathan so you can warn her of upcoming events (and you're limited to the immediate area of the picture) and that's the only way you can do it.
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Aug 16, 2015 05:57
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Yeah, being asked by Chloe just to participate in the assisted suicide was heavy as gently caress already. There's a reason of all the big time-slows-down choices in the game, this is the only one where the game lets you go 'oh god I can't make this decision'. It took me a few breaks from the game before I could sit down and pull the trigger on it. I could kinda feel it was the 'hammer' moment for Max too - up until that point, it was easy to tell myself 'Okay, Chloe is a quadriplegic and her family is ruinously deep in debt, but they're together again, and that's what counts, right?', but then being asked to end it... After that, I can't really fault Max for treating it as her One Big Warning and rushing to undo everything she just did and preventing herself from ever going back to change her mind. Especially hot on the heels of something as heavy as that. And yeah... how do you tell someone that? "Oh hey Chloe, I got back from an alternate timeline where I went back in time to save your dad and that led to you becoming a quadriplegic in a car crash and the financial ruin of your family and finally I had to help you commit suicide because your respiratory system was failing painfully so I had to go back again and undo saving your dad." Though like Bob says, the fact that Max might be forced to explain all this to Chloe anyway is really interesting and I hope they put her into that position.
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Aug 16, 2015 06:51
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Finished the episode a few hours ago and holy loving poo poo. Opening on a series of gut-punches and with that ending. I didn't see Jefferson being the ring-leader or whatever he is coming, but like most people we've had the opportunity to get busted he seemed kinda suspicious. Also, doesn't Max still carry around the butterfly photo she took in the bathroom in the beginning of ep 1? Is it possible she could use the reflection in the bucket to warp back there and warn Chloe or whatever? Joda fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 07:12
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Joda posted:Finished the episode a few hours ago and holy loving poo poo. Opening on a series of gut-punches and with that ending. I didn't see Jefferson being the ring-leader or whatever he is coming, but like most people we've had the opportunity to get busted he seemed kinda suspicious. It's in Chloe's room Pingcode posted:
That'd gently caress up a normal person and Chloe is like two days from eating a bullet if not for her meeting Max again. (You saved Kate just like you saved me etc) Normally I'd say it was just about literally saving her from getting shot but she says the same thing about Rachel. SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 07:55
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I can't imagine Chloe ever forgiving Max if she found out. When family members love each other that much, sacrificing your life so they can live isn't really a question. I agree with Max's ultimate decision though. Maybe Chloe had a right to have a chance to decide, but in that case so did William. And then you'd basically have two opposing views to choose from anyway, though maybe Chloe would be outvoted if Joyce was included as she probably should be. I'm just assuming with this that everyone believes Max about her time travel powers.
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Aug 16, 2015 08:51
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Viridiant posted:And then you'd basically have two opposing views to choose from anyway, though maybe Chloe would be outvoted if Joyce was included as she probably should be.
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Aug 16, 2015 09:09
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Still catching up on what people think of and have said about this game up 'til now, but right now what's the explanation for the 1.3 million dollar snuff dungeon on Prescott land that Jefferson has access to? The invoice was to a Prescott, the land was old Prescott land, if it was built as a survivalist bunker could Jefferson be squatting or is he cooperating with the Prescott family somehow? How long ago did Jefferson move to town? He's still relatively young and he got famous in I want to say New York City, so if he's only been in Arcadia Bay a few years it's hard to imagine the whole setup is his somehow. If all of those red binders were from Arcadia Bay but there haven't been any missing persons reports since 2001, does Jefferson do some kind of messed-up "catch and release" where he drugs people, takes photographs of them, then lets them go so they don't realize what's happened to them? Would that make Rachel an accident, like she woke up too early or Nathan hosed it up somehow? Or did he regularly kill his victims and most of those binders are from his time in the city? If so, why did they spare Kate Marsh - worried about too much heat now that Rachel was dead? It's clear there was a fakeout where we were supposed to think Nathan's dad was the one behind it all, but it's still hard not to think he's involved. If he is, I don't think Jefferson would try to clean him up as a 'loose end' unless his dad's really far gone and decides he needs to get rid of his problematic son to protect himself. Edit - I want to say that I really enjoyed and appreciated the clue-figuring-out section for actually having a pile of concrete clues from multiple sources that you put together for a clear answer. Their investigation up until that point was pretty hazy and a lot of games get a bit hand-wavy with their evidence, so it was nice to actually see what they'd accomplished and have it make sense. Dolash fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 16:39
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Dolash posted:If all of those red binders were from Arcadia Bay but there haven't been any missing persons reports since 2001, does Jefferson do some kind of messed-up "catch and release" where he drugs people, takes photographs of them, then lets them go so they don't realize what's happened to them? Would that make Rachel an accident, like she woke up too early or Nathan hosed it up somehow? Or did he regularly kill his victims and most of those binders are from his time in the city? If so, why did they spare Kate Marsh - worried about too much heat now that Rachel was dead? Yes, this much is pretty obvious. Rachel's death was a gently caress up. Remember: it happened to Chloe (though it doesn't look like Jefferson took pictures so maybe Nathan was using her as a guinea pig.) Nathan's text messages also make it pretty clear something went wrong the night of Rachel's death. Jefferson's thing is (or at least was) making creepy voyeuristic photos of drugged up girls, not murder.
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Aug 16, 2015 17:41
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Yeah, it's pretty clear he/they have been getting away with it for a while with the victims none the wiser until things gently caress up with Rachel (not dosed enough, wakes up, realises who and what is going on, resulting in having to dispose of her). Nathan then fucks up trying to ham-fistedly add Chloe to the collection, followed by Kate, who's very nature and background made her a huge risk because of course she was dosed and of course anyone with a shred of humanity is going to start asking questions about what exactly happened and it all starts to unravel. It seems pretty clear Nathan is tortured and guilty about it, and I'd be genuinely surprised if he was involved with Rachel's murder, instead trying to believe whatever bullshit pay-off out of town story his dear mentor tried to spin about it. I'm curious about who Jefferson ends up awkwardly talking to on the phone in Out of Time after Kate walks away and he quizzes Max. It can't be Nathan because he's in the class room bitching with Victoria so who then? If you eavesdrop, it sound like it's tied into all this poo poo...
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Aug 16, 2015 18:36
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It's probably Daddy Prescott.
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Aug 16, 2015 18:41
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Mokinokaro posted:Jefferson's thing is (or at least was) making creepy voyeuristic photos of drugged up girls, not murder. Exactly this. Most of the young women were being drugged and kidnapped from parties, so the assumption is that after team creepy got their photos, Nathan was probably taking them back and letting them loose again at the party. One more person blasted out of their mind at a party isn't going to cause much concern. The gently caress up with Kate was taking someone who was so straight-laced otherwise. She had one sip of wine at the party and then drank water. She wasn't shotgunning beers and sampling every drug that came her way. So it was pretty clear to everyone that something was out of the ordinary, even if most of the students just took it as a 'laugh at the religious girl getting wasted' moment. Similarly, Chloe didn't get the right dosage, or something, and woke up in time to nut-punt Nathan and get the hell out. Rachel also, but then she didn't wake up until she was already in the creepy photo hell dungeon and something about that scenario led to her apparent death. (Can't say for absolute certain since we haven't really seen a body yet, so they could be holding out some narrative trickery) It's obvious that Jefferson is getting a bit sloppy, or maybe Nathan was only recently added to his team and is causing problems. Maybe Jefferson had been doing this for years in some weird friendship/arrangement with daddy Prescott, and then Nathan put some clues together on his own and worked his way in. But he's such a crazy fuckup that he's making Jefferson's normal (horrible, but normal) routine go off the rails, leading to all of these recent mistakes. Basically episode 5 can't come soon enough.
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Aug 16, 2015 18:43
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Jefferson didn't gently caress up by drugging and abducting Kate. Remember, he wants to capture and photograph young women at the height of their innocence and vulnerability. He doesn't rape them, although the nature of the assault is definitely sexual, because in his own mind that would undermine their innocence. Kate being a straight-laced Christian girl was an otherwise perfect target. You can also sense his discomfort in Episode 3 with Victoria because she's so forward with him and that messes with his whole hosed-up power differential thing. At the time you think it's because Jefferson is doing the responsible thing as a professional educator, but only in hindsight of Episode 4 does it come to light that a sexually active young woman is probably a real boner killer for him.
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Aug 16, 2015 18:51
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exquisite tea posted:Jefferson didn't gently caress up by drugging and abducting Kate. Remember, he wants to capture and photograph young women at the height of their innocence and vulnerability. He doesn't rape them, although the nature of the assault is definitely sexual, because in his own mind that would undermine their innocence. Kate being a straight-laced Christian girl was an otherwise perfect target. You can also sense his discomfort in Episode 3 with Victoria because she's so forward with him and that messes with his whole hosed-up power differential thing. At the time you think it's because Jefferson is doing the responsible thing as a professional educator, but only in hindsight of Episode 4 does it come to light that a sexually active young woman is probably a real boner killer for him. He didn't gently caress up from his perspective as far as 'this is what gets my evil rocks off', he hosed up in that Kate wasn't someone who was going to take 'I blacked out at a party' as a normal thing to ignore. She was going to keep pushing back on it, because that is way outside the realm of her normal life. I'm betting there weren't viral videos of other girls he's nabbed going around acting grabby at parties while they were coming down off of Nathan's kidnapping drug cocktail. Because this wouldn't be terribly out of the ordinary for people who are used to partying all the time anyway. But agreed on the rest of your points. This game clearly makes the argument that sexual crimes are all about power and control and not really about sex, without ever having to say it outright at all.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:00
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RE: Kate reacted specifically bc she wasn't used to drugs; Isn't/wasn't Kate taking acid though? She's not entirely new to the concept of mind-altering consumables. That said I don't know if you can black out from acid or not.
Joda fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 20:17
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blue squares posted:Frankly the alternate timeline felt to me like one of those great ideas that the creative team had, but when they couldn't find a way to integrate it better, they didn't make the hard choice that all artists have to make: to know when to cut the material you love. Sometimes the best thing for the story is to cut your favorite parts. As (I believe) Stephen King calls it, "Kill your darlings." I thought Dontnod said the entire story was written near the beginning of development?
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Aug 16, 2015 20:31
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Caedar posted:I thought Dontnod said the entire story was written near the beginning of development? What does that have to do with what I wrote? The writing phase is when that sequence should have been scrapped or redone.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:33
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blue squares posted:What does that have to do with what I wrote? The writing phase is when that sequence should have been scrapped or redone. Oh, it sounded like you meant cut it during development when they couldn't realize it properly. Disregard.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:37
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Eh, it worked fine for me. It cemented the relationship and crippling guilt Max feels over losing touch with her oldest and dearest friend, sets up the new power that will presumably save the day in Ep 5 now all is at its bleakest, and shows the awful consequences of loving about with the time stream without giving it proper thought and consideration, regardless of your good intentions. Plus it was a nice little opportunity for Euros to feel smug about not having a gently caress awful callous health system, I guess.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:38
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blue squares posted:Frankly the alternate timeline felt to me like one of those great ideas that the creative team had, but when they couldn't find a way to integrate it better, they didn't make the hard choice that all artists have to make: to know when to cut the material you love. Sometimes the best thing for the story is to cut your favorite parts. As (I believe) Stephen King calls it, "Kill your darlings." Someone else mentioned it, but the polaroid power will . . . very likely be a part of the final episode. They had to introduce it in a way that was narratively interesting and to really make you realize that it's incredibly dangerous and can cause way too many ripples in the time line. Edit: I was beaten.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:41
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Max posted:Someone else mentioned it, but the polaroid power will . . . very likely be a part of the final episode. They had to introduce it in a way that was narratively interesting and to really make you realize that it's incredibly dangerous and can cause way too many ripples in the time line. Well yeah, you can't just drop a deus ex machina right in the final episode and have that be satisfying, but for me the sequence could have been improved. When I finished it I just wasn't happy about how I spent my time. Was it the worst thing ever? No.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:43
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Joda posted:RE: Kate reacted specifically bc she wasn't used to drugs; Isn't/wasn't Kate taking acid though? She's not entirely new to the concept of mind-altering consumables. That said I don't know if you can black out from acid or not. Kate hasn't taken acid, no. There's a girl named Katie in Frank's logs that you might be mixing her up with.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:47
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Oooooh. I missed the i then. My bad.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:51
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Joda posted:Oooooh. I missed the i then. My bad. I think a few people do that. That's on the devs, it's got to have been a mistake somewhere in the writing process. Or maybe they just told the artists 'we need a handwritten list of random names' without clarifying which names should have been avoided. Either that or it's setting up for a really weird twist in the next episode, but that's pretty far fetched. Such an easily avoidable mistake too, which is odd considering how meticulous they were with the cars and GPS coordinates to the point that you can actually see that Jefferson's car was at the barn at the same date/time Nathan was there, if you go looking for it.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:24
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exquisite tea posted:This is an inexpensive game and assets get reused everywhere. Next, my elaborate theory on how Mrs. Grant is in on the whole scheme because the red binder on her desk is the same model as the ones in the darkroom and David's closet. You should never have given away your personal information on that petition, Max...  TOO BAD  
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Aug 17, 2015 01:51
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Dolash posted:Still catching up on what people think of and have said about this game up 'til now, but right now what's the explanation for the 1.3 million dollar snuff dungeon on Prescott land that Jefferson has access to? The invoice was to a Prescott, the land was old Prescott land, if it was built as a survivalist bunker could Jefferson be squatting or is he cooperating with the Prescott family somehow? How long ago did Jefferson move to town? He's still relatively young and he got famous in I want to say New York City, so if he's only been in Arcadia Bay a few years it's hard to imagine the whole setup is his somehow. From the newspaper clippings in the barn, it's probably an old fallout shelter. This could place it from the '60s when JFK told everyone what a great idea they were because of things heating up. The LiS wiki says Jefferson was born in Arcadia Bay. So he could easily be some Prescott cousin or just childhood friends with Sean Prescott - the wiki says Jefferson is 46, and that would be about the right age for Sean to have an 18 year old son and a daughter a bit older.
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Aug 17, 2015 02:52
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monster on a stick posted:From the newspaper clippings in the barn, it's probably an old fallout shelter. This could place it from the '60s when JFK told everyone what a great idea they were because of things heating up. The note that tells you it's price also says it's named "The Stormbreaker" which seems to imply it was constructed somewhat recently for the purpose of getting through the giant tornado. Also if it was constructed decades ago it seems weird that there would even be the note with it's cost in there. The newspaper clippings in the barn are probably just there to show that the Prescotts know how to build shelters. The Prescotts clearly know something about what's coming due to all the weird destiny stuff surrounding Nathan and Jefferson is probably collaborating with them or if he has time powers manipulating them.
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Aug 17, 2015 03:02
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drat the beginning of the episode brings back so many memories from last year... Too bad IRL you don't get the choice to sacrifice a shitheel alcoholic parent to bring your friend back, cause I'd press that rewind button so hard.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:09
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Just beat episode 1, looks like the only thing I did "right" was let the bird die.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:10
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Lord Chumley posted:Just beat episode 1, looks like the only thing I did "right" was let the bird die. Given what happens if you don't is generally considered an ill omen, I'd belatedly have to agree. Oh well, my course is set, I shall see it through to the end.
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Aug 17, 2015 19:38
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Sentinel Red posted:Given what happens if you don't is generally considered an ill omen, I'd belatedly have to agree. Oh well, my course is set, I shall see it through to the end. What does this mean?
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Aug 17, 2015 20:15
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blue squares posted:What does this mean? http://www.snopes.com/oldwives/bird.asp
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Aug 17, 2015 20:31
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Should probably check Native American legends instead of "old wives' tales".this page posted:Bluejay is the trickster hero of the Chinook, Chehalis, and other Northwest Coast tribes. Bluejay is generally a benevolent being who is helpful to humankind, but he is also extremely foolish and careless, and stories about him are often humorous or even slapstick in nature. Sounds about right.
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Aug 17, 2015 21:03
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Letting the bluejay out later confuses me, because isn't that their nest in the garage? Aren't you condemning those eggs by separating them from their mother?
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Aug 17, 2015 21:11
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Dolash posted:Letting the bluejay out later confuses me, because isn't that their nest in the garage? Aren't you condemning those eggs by separating them from their mother? Why yes there is only 1 Blue Jay in all of Arcadia Bay
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Aug 17, 2015 21:16
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Oh god. It's going to be like watering the plant everyday all over again. 
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Aug 17, 2015 21:24
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