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Panfilo posted:Am I the only one that mashes the 'W' key harder at times, mistakenly believing this will somehow make my ship go faster? No, but like WoT I've occasionally caught myself holding it the entire round.
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Aug 16, 2015 17:08
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Panfilo posted:Am I the only one that mashes the 'W' key harder at times, mistakenly believing this will somehow make my ship go faster? I seem to have the opposite problem where I'll slow down to avoid torpedoes and then completely forget to press 'W' to get going again.
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Aug 16, 2015 17:19
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At what point does US DD's stop being competitive? I'm doing pretty ok in my Clemson, but don't want to grind for nothing.
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Aug 16, 2015 17:36
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Throbbing blob posted:At what point does US DD's stop being competitive? I'm doing pretty ok in my Clemson, but don't want to grind for nothing. They get kinda meh at around T5-6, then get good again once you get the torp upgrade at T8.
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Aug 16, 2015 17:38
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Panfilo posted:Am I the only one that mashes the 'W' key harder at times, mistakenly believing this will somehow make my ship go faster? Probably not. Its like people who play racing games with a remote and lean to the left or right when making a turn.
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Aug 16, 2015 17:41
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As much as I hate doing WoT class comparisons, I actually can provide a decent summation of destroyers, especially IJN destroyers, in terms of tanks. Destroyers in general are basically a mashup of light tanks and tank destroyers - designed to be effective at quickly getting places to cap points, as well as be the big threat to the heaviest craft in the game, via their big weapon fired from concealment before the opponent even knows they're there - with US leaning more towards the light tank side, and IJN leaning more towards the TD side. Except in this case, even if you perfectly line up your shot your opponent still gets a huge amount of warning to dodge your shots.
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Aug 16, 2015 17:42
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Lord Koth posted:True, but I meant parallel to the spread, as in driving between the torpedoes, thus dodging any hits entirely. This is just flat out something that you should not be able to do as a battleship if you were flat on to them when they became visible. Dropping the number of hits you take with the change is already difficult but doable, this makes it just plain easy.
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Aug 16, 2015 18:11
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Coming from the Houshou, the Langley is loving terrible. 
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Aug 16, 2015 18:31
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Got my Montana early this morning and took it out straight into battle, fully modulized, camo, etc, and i am now down to 1mil credits.... but hey, we absolutely smashed a team into the water with it and I barely took damage, guess i can't ever play it again.
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Aug 16, 2015 18:54
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I like the continuing emphasis itt that battleships are the idiot class when in fact they're easily the hardest to do well so far that I can tell, because you are such a massive loving target regardless of their class survivability. In order to be an asset to your team instead of a liability at any given time you have to juggle paying attention to torps from DDs that may or may not be nearby, torps from your friendly DDs who usually don't give a gently caress about anything but themselves, torps from torpedo bombers, HE spam from cruisers, and direct fire from other BBs. If you're not worthless you'll be trying to get close enough to minimise the effect of dispersion meaning you'll probably have to do at least half of these things at once. if higher tier DDs really do get poo poo on by everything else, good. I can't loving wait, because at tier 5 the easiest and most tactless way of doing well is to poo poo torpedoes into a chokepoint for 20 minutes or suicide into my Kongo.
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Aug 16, 2015 18:55
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Michi88 posted:Got my Montana early this morning and took it out straight into battle, fully modulized, camo, etc, and i am now down to 1mil credits.... but hey, we absolutely smashed a team into the water with it and I barely took damage, guess i can't ever play it again. Grats, maybe if the stars align we could do a Tier 10 division sometime.
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Aug 16, 2015 18:56
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yaay posted:I like the continuing emphasis itt that battleships are the idiot class when in fact they're easily the hardest to do well in because you are a massive loving target regardless of their class survivability. In order to be an asset to your team instead of a liability at any given time you have to juggle paying attention to torps from DDs that may or may not be nearby, torps from your friendly DDs who usually don't give a gently caress about anything but themselves, torps from torpedo bombers, HE spam from cruisers, and direct fire from other BBs. If you're not worthless you'll be trying to get close enough to minimise the effect of dispersion meaning you'll probably have to do at least half of these things at once. I kinda agree insofar as every class has a pretty decent counter to battleships right now, much of which I'd attribute to BB gun accuracy being complete rear end.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:03
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if i had to look at it from the opposite perspective i'd say that citadels hit far too hard and WG are poo poo so they can't balance them correctly
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Aug 16, 2015 19:04
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yaay posted:
Honestly i see the opposite, more then once a fletcher or gearing has burned me for 70% of my health in an Iowa by he spamming without being revealed... they spammed he at me constantly for about 5-8mins straight, and dropping torps and i couldn't do anything because they stayed invisible.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:07
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I've had a very fun and easy time levelling my kongo, at least after the hull upgrade. It's accuracy is pretty great compared to the ships before it, and it is very rare to get in a 6+ game IME. I recommend complaining less and playing better.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:18
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So if I understand this right, the bogue can pretty much only have all bombers or all fighters? Against the Japanese level 5 CV that can have both? If this is correct, can I safely assume that the devs haven't given any real thought to balancing the ships against each other at tier level?
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Aug 16, 2015 19:19
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yaay posted:I like the continuing emphasis itt that battleships are the idiot class when in fact they're easily the hardest to do well so far that I can tell, because you are such a massive loving target regardless of their class survivability. In order to be an asset to your team instead of a liability at any given time you have to juggle paying attention to torps from DDs that may or may not be nearby, torps from your friendly DDs who usually don't give a gently caress about anything but themselves, torps from torpedo bombers, HE spam from cruisers, and direct fire from other BBs. If you're not worthless you'll be trying to get close enough to minimise the effect of dispersion meaning you'll probably have to do at least half of these things at once. What the hell are you talking about? This thread has consistently stated that idiots are drawn to battleships, not that they do well in them. The emphasis is on the dumbasses who sit at maximum range in their battleships and basically accomplish nothing the whole match, which is completely ineffective 99% of the time. Someone who actually knows what they're doing in battleships is a lethal threat, and one that can wreck large chunks of enemy teams. And yes, this includes the Kongo once you know how to use it. HE-spamming cruisers is the thing constantly called out as requiring no skill. As for destroyers... you know, aside from the fact that experienced battleship drivers are already capable of minimizing or completely avoiding many torpedo spreads already, along with being perfectly capable of smashing destroyers flat even at tier 5. It's also ignoring that destroyers are SUPPOSED to be the check to battleships, and have been marketed as such from the very beginning. If it's a lone destroyer vs. a lone battleship the destroyer generally SHOULD win more often than not, taking into account equally skilled players, and at higher tiers that's not necessarily the case already. Unzip and Attack posted:So if I understand this right, the bogue can pretty much only have all bombers or all fighters? Against the Japanese level 5 CV that can have both? IJN carriers that actually take fighters once they get access to multiple loadouts are reasonably rare, because for tiers 5-6 they're usually close to worthless against same-tier, or even -1 tier, US fighters, and the habit sticks at the later tiers. So while IJN carriers CAN carry both, most rarely do until the absolute top-tier when they always have at least one. US fighter squadrons being superior to IJN ones is one thing, but the fact that they can consistently wipe out the opposing squadrons for no loss really does not encourage IJN carrier drivers to bother with those loadouts. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 19:20
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yaay posted:I like the continuing emphasis itt that battleships are the idiot class when in fact they're easily the hardest to do well so far that I can tell, because you are such a massive loving target regardless of their class survivability. In order to be an asset to your team instead of a liability at any given time you have to juggle paying attention to torps from DDs that may or may not be nearby, torps from your friendly DDs who usually don't give a gently caress about anything but themselves, torps from torpedo bombers, HE spam from cruisers, and direct fire from other BBs. If you're not worthless you'll be trying to get close enough to minimise the effect of dispersion meaning you'll probably have to do at least half of these things at once. T4-T5 is the peak of destroyers. They go down hill fast after that. By T6 even they are subpar. Honest question, how much non-Battleship time do you have? Get a Minekazi and try landing some 10km hits. I think you'll be surprised how many times you miss by 5 km because someone tapped rudder 30 seconds after the torps were fired, but 30 seconds before they would hit.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:22
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Lord Koth posted:What the hell are you talking about? This thread has consistently stated that idiots are drawn to battleships, not that they do well in them. The emphasis is on the dumbasses who sit at maximum range in their battleships and basically accomplish nothing the whole match, which is completely ineffective 99% of the time. Someone who actually knows what they're doing in battleships is a lethal threat, and one that can wreck large chunks of enemy teams. And yes, this includes the Kongo once you know how to use it. HE-spamming cruisers is the thing constantly called out as requiring no skill. I thought it was carriers that were supposed to counter battleships. How can carriers and DDs both be the counter to BBs? How are DDs even a logical counter to BBs anyways?
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Aug 16, 2015 19:23
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The problem is people look at these things as a "experienced bb players can handle it" one at a time, sure 1v1 I can handle a cruiser, bb, dd, etc. But in most matches I'm carrying the pubbies and I'm fighting 2-3 bbs, 2-4 cruisers, and a dd plus being focused by a cv at the same time and it cannot be avoided. It's a matter of you have to carry, and being caught on fire by around 50% of hits taken from he spamming cruisers sucks, on top of shooting, dodging torps, turning into plane waves, etc. /edit, there is nothing more frustrating then taking 4 rounds from a pensicola and being lit on fire 3 times from it, using your damage control, then a slavo 5seconds later lits around 2 fires.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:23
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Lord Koth posted:What the hell are you talking about? This thread has consistently stated that idiots are drawn to battleships, not that they do well in them. The emphasis is on the dumbasses who sit at maximum range in their battleships and basically accomplish nothing the whole match, which is completely ineffective 99% of the time. Someone who actually knows what they're doing in battleships is a lethal threat, and one that can wreck large chunks of enemy teams. And yes, this includes the Kongo once you know how to use it. HE-spamming cruisers is the thing constantly called out as requiring no skill.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:23
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Warbadger posted:I thought it was carriers that were supposed to counter battleships. How can carriers and DDs both be the counter to BBs? How are DDs even a logical counter to BBs anyways? Destroyers counter BBs that drive in perfectly straight lines for minutes at a time. Michi88 posted:The problem is people look at these things as a "experienced bb players can handle it" one at a time, sure 1v1 I can handle a cruiser, bb, dd, etc. But in most matches I'm carrying the pubbies and I'm fighting 2-3 bbs, 2-4 cruisers, and a dd plus being focused by a cv at the same time and it cannot be avoided. It's a matter of you have to carry, and being caught on fire by around 50% of hits taken from he spamming cruisers sucks, on top of shooting, dodging torps, turning into plane waves, etc. This is because the current metagame is a toxic cesspool of "I don't want to be in front". No one has the balls to be the first ship so everyone sits at max range and snipes ineffectively.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:24
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Xae posted:
As anyone who has played with me knows, I play aggressive as gently caress and it works.... if the pubbies follow me in.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:27
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Lord Koth posted:IJN carriers that actually take fighters once they get access to multiple loadouts are reasonably rare, because for tiers 5-6 they're usually close to worthless against same-tier, or even -1 tier, US fighters, and the habit sticks at the later tiers. So while IJN carriers CAN carry both, most rarely do until the absolute top-tier when they always have at least one. US fighter squadrons being superior to IJN ones is one thing, but the fact that they can consistently wipe out the opposing squadrons for no loss really does not encourage IJN carrier drivers to bother with those loadouts. Ok thanks for the insight. Seems like the devs really went whole hog with the "American X is better/worse than Japanese X" design philosophy on a lot of things. So would a stock Bogue with 1 and 1 even be viable then? I just can't wrap my head around having all bombers and just watching them get raped by fighters on every pass.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:29
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BB's are the easiest targets to consistently hit on the map so it follows they're going to get focused down quickly. Wargaming's retarded philosophy of historical loadouts when we feel like it and horrible game balance when we don't needs to stop. They need to go all in on this game being arcadey as hell and the rudder turn buffs are a step in the right direction but nerfing the hell out of DD's is step backwards when they're so awful already. And lol @ those thinking WG is ever invested in making any line smooth to tier X. Horrible road bumps, stock grinds and recycling lovely draw inducing game modes is apart of WG's dev DNA now.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:29
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Xae posted:Destroyers counter BBs that drive in perfectly straight lines for minutes at a time. Destroyers also counter battleships that get close by, which is why every cluster of islands and small inlet on the maps is a loving deathtrap when DDs are around. Besides that there's the whole things where DD's are faster and difficult to spot until they reach short-ish range, so that even if you can't hit the BB it's not like he can hit you back without help from his team to spot your rear end. Destroyers are also capable of launching torps at an angle that isn't outlined by the torp auto-lead so it's not like it's impossible to hit turning ships. Just not guaranteed. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 19:32
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pidgeotto-san posted:BB's are the easiest targets to consistently hit on the map so it follows they're going to get focused down quickly. 
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Aug 16, 2015 19:32
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cheese posted:I think his point is that we rag on dumb BB drivers when they are actually hard to play well. Long range sniping is useless, but when you close to 10-12km to get good BB volleys you have to deal with HE cruiser spam, torps, etc. It really is not easy to play a BB at higher tiers well as there is a lot to consider at any one second. poo poo, just planning out your turret rotations and the angles you will attack at in advance is difficult. Totally true. I personally read the complaint to have been that we were saying that playing a battleship well was easy and required no skill. Which is of course not true at all. The fact that we rag on all the useless idiots battleships attract as well is just a continuing complaint since they're supposed to be the backbone of a team, not hiding at maximum range. Xae posted:Destroyers counter BBs that drive in perfectly straight lines for minutes at a time. The fact that they don't necessarily do one of the jobs WG marketed them for well is a related matter, but that is one of the roles WG gave them, so complaining about them actually doing it is dumb. The latter point is an unfortunate truth, and right now it's just a matter of you have to get good at reading the minimap and try and predict what your team is going to do. Battleships most explicitly SHOULD NOT be leading the charge, but at the same time they should be advancing within reasonable distance of the frontmost ships rather than staying at maximum range.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:32
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Lord Koth posted:Totally true. I personally read the complaint to have been that we were saying that playing a battleship well was easy and required no skill. Which is of course not true at all. The fact that we rag on all the useless idiots battleships attract as well is just a continuing complaint since they're supposed to be the backbone of a team, not hiding at maximum range.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:36
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They should give all of the old early battleships and cruisers that had them the submerged torpedo launchers that they historically had. 
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Aug 16, 2015 19:39
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I look forward to torping dds in a Tirpitz
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Aug 16, 2015 19:41
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Xae posted:Honest question, how much non-Battleship time do you have? Get a Minekazi and try landing some 10km hits. I think you'll be surprised how many times you miss by 5 km because someone tapped rudder 30 seconds after the torps were fired, but 30 seconds before they would hit. I've more time in the Kongo than anything else, but I do play all classes aside from CVs. I have a clemson and the double turrets feel real good against other DDs. The main point of irritation for me is not that hitting with a spread of torps from far out isn't hard, because it is, it's that you can do it with zero risk and there's no real counterplay if you can only guess at where the torps are going to come from to begin with. People who play like this exclusively probably have mostly lovely scoring games, but at ~10k per torp plus flooding you only really need one or two to hit to ruin somebody. If I'm in a BB my first priority has to be minimising my silhoutte against other battleships and cruiser spam because those things are more of a certainty.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:41
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cheese posted:Its not hard to imagine a pubbie getting his shiny new Wyoming and then in the first game, he charges ahead, starts to get HE/Fire spammed to death by a Cleveland and 2 Omahas, try to flee and then eats a pair of invisible Minekaze torps. He goes "gently caress that, I'm gonna snipe" and the rest is history. There's also that many cruisers don't bother with moving with the BB, either by being far too fast for most BB or that they decide to turn away the second more than 2 enemy ships are sighted, leaving the BB all alone to be spammed to death. Passive BB on max distance are a really frustrating thing to see in most games but I can certainly understand why it happens.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:42
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Warbadger posted:Destroyers also counter battleships that get closeby, which coincidentally isn't too hard given that DD's are hard to spot and difficult to hit when your accuracy is garbage. Destroyers are also capable of launching torps at an angle that isn't outlined by the torp auto-lead so it's not like you can't hit a guy who makes the occasional turn. The USN DD's typically have 2-3 KM where they are visible before they can fire torps. If you turn into the destroyer to present a small shilloute you can dodge almost all torpedoes. My T6 Farragut has landed 4-6 hits torps on Cruisers or Battleships and have them survive. Without torps DDs are just incredibly poo poo Light Cruisers. Take a look at the guns on the Mutsuki or Minekazi if you want a laugh. They're 5 inch guns with 45 second 180s. And the Mutsuki gets a whole 2 of them! The Farragut does 1/2 the damage of the Cleveland if HE spamming, with 1/4th the chance to start a fire. While having a third the HP and a third of the AA capability. And this is considered one of the best USN DDs for guns.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:43
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Junkozeyne posted:There's also that many cruisers don't bother with moving with the BB, either by being far too fast for most BB or that they decide to turn away the second more than 2 enemy ships are sighted, leaving the BB all alone to be spammed to death. Passive BB on max distance are a really frustrating thing to see in most games but I can certainly understand why it happens. Edit: Everything in this game is kinda, sorta the same speed. I lost a game earlier because my Cleveland could not catch an enemy carrier that was at 16km. I was just barely faster and I chased him halfway across the map. cheese fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 19:44
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cheese posted:I wonder if they track the amount of gold spent on free XP as it relates to certain vehicles and tech tree lines. Gotta make sure you have a Furutaka/Colorado/Kawachi in every line No one has any illusions that horrible grinds frustrating you to give them money is a sound business model to them. One thing about BB's is that getting set on fire isn't really bad from HE at tier or below. I usually try to stay close to the action as possible because a loss+death doing 60k+ damage is better than a survival+loss or win cowering far behind action. I try to go in with some form of an out and plan my turret rotations automatically, and I always expect to get set on fire every game. I usually let myself burn down till I'm safe. Nothing frustrates me more than rage blowing my repair knowing i'm only going to get set on fire again seconds later and holding onto my dick for that unavoidable manual drop that will probably come 20 seconds later. Granted that getting "safe" in that tinderbox situation doesn't happen frequently at all, BB's just have to account for more crap being thrown at them with no recourse more than any other ship type. Better solution would be to shorten the godawful repair and fire times. also get rid of standard battle
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Aug 16, 2015 19:49
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pidgeotto-san posted:No one has any illusions that horrible grinds frustrating you to give them money is a sound business model to them. Fire, Flooding, Engine Disable and Rudder Disable are all way too long. Cutting them all in half would be a very nice change.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:55
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pidgeotto-san posted:
My constant state of being on fire from Clevelands in my Iowa would disagree. Anything does it, mogami, pepsicola, dds.... Michi88 fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 20:06
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Michi88 posted:My constant state of being on fire from Clevelands in my Iowa would disagree. That is because some idiot decided the Cleveland needed a 12% chance to start a fire when it fired 100 RPM with captain skills.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:08
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Xae posted:That is because some idiot decided the Cleveland needed a 12% chance to start a fire when it fired 100 RPM with captain skills. Edited my post for more accurate whining 
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Aug 16, 2015 20:13
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