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If you count the tabletop RPGs, at least two more times- the Hadex Anomaly and the Screaming Vortex. Apparently hellholes where the laws of space and time are more like guidelines are actually tolerable places to live.
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Aug 17, 2015 13:44
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Given the Imperium has Death worlds, that isn't that surprising. Also, IIRC a Progenitor race either uplifted, or flat out created the Eldar and the Orks during its war with the C'than and their Necron servants. The Eldar and Orks DID win. But what is now Chaos, as well as Gork, Mork, Khaine and friends sensed them. And found them DELICIOUS Then, you know, the Eldar were having too much fun. And spawned a new Chaos God which ate most of their gods. And people. And turned the warp fully into the lovable hellscape it is today.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:10
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I have to say that I'm getting a bit in the mood for some Dark Crusade after reading this LP. I thought I had purchased it during the Warhammer Humble Bundle but apparently it was just the original game + Winter Assault. I guess I'll just wait for a Steam sale and then it's time to stomp some filthy Xeno's as the IG.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:16
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The dumbest loving thing I've learned about 40k was the new Comissar law introducing that A. They're all heavily drugged up and brain washed and B. They graduate by being tasked to murder their best friends. Because these make sense for the morale officer of the Imperium, and it's always great that a school system wastes so much time training people only to kill half of them.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:16
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Onmi posted:The dumbest loving thing I've learned about 40k was the new Comissar law introducing that A. They're all heavily drugged up and brain washed and B. They graduate by being tasked to murder their best friends.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:26
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Sylphosaurus posted:So how do you solve the conondrum if you have an aspiring Commisar who doesn't have any friends? Humbug! Everyone is a friend and comrade in the Schola Progenium. Also gently caress trying to attack SPESSSSS MEHREEEEENS as the Guard when these assholes have three quarters of the map occupied and all you can do is throw poo poo Guardsmen at them before you can roll out the tanks.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:28
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Onmi posted:The dumbest loving thing I've learned about 40k was the new Commissar law introducing that A. They're all heavily drugged up and brain washed and B. They graduate by being tasked to murder their best friends. To be fair to GW, the second bit is based on apocryphal tales of the Nazis doing something similar. To be fair to the loving Nazis, they were said to have only used beloved dogs instead of friends. And yeah, that first bit is straight up retarded. Real life has enough examples of people going to extremes thanks to indoctrination alone. I can understand the drugs if it's meant to harden the cadets to the gribblies they have to face, but IIRC it's explicitly mentioned that the drugs are there to reinforce their loyalty. Thing is, if a cadet needed drugs to have their loyalty reinforced in the first place they'd have become stormtroopers instead.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:28
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I think the place you're going wrong is assuming that anyone who either writes 40k lore or is a character in 40k gives even the tiniest of fucks about doing things sensibly. If they have magical space drugs that can indoctrinate people further, they're going to use them, whether or not it's strictly necessary. 40k does not give a gently caress about real life. Deformed Church fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 14:45
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Onmi posted:The dumbest loving thing I've learned about 40k was the new Comissar law introducing that A. They're all heavily drugged up and brain washed and B. They graduate by being tasked to murder their best friends. This is 40k. There probably is at least one Schola that requires commissar cadets to do that, and at least one that does not. Ciaphas Cain and Ibram Gaunt are nothing like that.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:46
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CommissarMega posted:To be fair to GW, the second bit is based on apocryphal tales of the Nazis doing something similar. As someone posted elsewhere quote:Thankfully, Dan Abnett already explains the new Schola lore in Eisenhorn/Ravenor/etc. Cythereal posted:This is 40k. There probably is at least one Schola that requires commissar cadets to do that, and at least one that does not. Ciaphas Cain and Ibram Gaunt are nothing like that. Yes that would be common sense talking, unfortunately this is GW, so they don't care what they're making GBS threads on to make their new derp work. Ask the Necrons, and the Space Marines
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Aug 17, 2015 14:48
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The galaxy is too big.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:50
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Thing is, the Eisenhorn/Ravenor books came out before the new Tempestus (Emperor, I hate that name) BS. Mind you, I haven't read Pariah yet, so maybe there's something there.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:51
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habituallyred posted:I must ask as to why the stealth veterans were not available for the unsuccessful attack. It seems like starting out with a force to invisibly capture points would be very useful. We did have them for the failed attack! I forgot to mention them, but they were out capturing points:  They helped Shas'o beat down some Rangers:  And then died shamefully because I wasn't paying attention to my micromanaging:  They're powerful when used effectively, but are the glassiest of glass cannons in an army of glass cannons. Turn your back too long while fighting a two front war and they'll be dead before you can reinforce them. kvx687 posted:Maaaaaan, that 3-1 Kill Ratio trigger. I don't know if my games are glitched or if it's just that the trigger is weird, but I cannot get it to trigger reliably. I've had games without losing a single squad, hell I've even had a couple where I didn't lose a single unit and it still didn't trigger. Is there something to it that isn't obvious, or am I just unlucky as hell? I've never had a problem getting the 3-to-1 kill Wargear. I usually get it fairly early on in the campaign while entrenching in a large map, or on my first stronghold assault. Clearly you just need to kill more enemies if you're having trouble making it trigger.  Lord_Magmar posted:If people really like all the stupid knowledge I have about this universe I will certainly try to make a fairly big post on all the races when we do beat their strongholds Yeah, man, the lore dumps are really cool! My knowledge of Warhammer 40K is restricted to the first Dawn of War series, and Coolguye and Last Roboky's Space Marine LP. If you wanna put in the effort for species posts, I'll add them to the OP and all. EDIT: fixin' the mixin' up of quotes Sally fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 14:58
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Onmi posted:Yes that would be common sense talking, unfortunately this is GW, so they don't care what they're making GBS threads on to make their new derp work.
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Aug 17, 2015 15:37
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As the OP seems okay with me doing big faction posts at the appropriate point I will. One thing to remember is that a big theme of Warhammer 40k is that everything will forever get worse, and anything getting better is just to set up larger falls. There's a reason the end of the 41st Millenium is known as the time of ending and it isn't because we're about to get a good one at that. Now as one last Tau post because I honestly dislike them as a faction for play-style reasons, I play Tyranids which kind of suck against pure ranged armies that can shoot worth a drat which the Tau can do absurdly well. The Tau being space communists and blue weaboos comes from when they were introduced, which in general made a whole lot of WH40k players real goddamn mad, because they were introduced as an actually good and friendly alien race that were reasonable to other people and had a lot of clear Chinese/Japanese influence in a game which mainly took European themes for it's factions. Which is kind of the exact opposite of what Warhammer 40k is meant to be, thankfully later editions fixed this by giving the Ethereals a bunch of shady lore and making their treatment of other races quite atrocious in some cases. This does however mean the Tau are almost always going to be the least liked race in any given discussion of Warhammer 40k. All in all even with the sterilization of entire populations and the wierdness inherent in espousing greater good and then letting Ethereals run everything the Tau are still probably the closest to good guys, second place of course being the Imperium of Man in all it's ridiculous bullshit glory. Now before they added all the nasty stuff this was wierd, now it's highly amusing because in any other reasonable setting the Tau would be an insidious villain trying to convert good people to their hosed up cult lifestyle. I'll say more on the Imperium of Man and why they're good guys for a value of good with the Imperial Gaurd dump, the space marine one will be more about the various styles of chapter and why the Blood Ravens in particular are kind of wierd for a Space Marine chapter. Finally if anyone notices any errors in my information feel free to correct me as I really like learning more about how utterly stupid Warhammer 40k can get, and always remember IN THE GRIM-DARK FUTURE OF THE 41ST MILLENNIUM, THERE IS ONLY WAR
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Aug 17, 2015 15:59
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The main point of the Tau narratively, in my opinion, is that they genuinely believe they're good guys and act like it. They think they live in a rational universe where reason, diplomacy, and the common good can prevail. They have no clue what kind of setting they're actually in and are going to be horribly broken when reality sets in.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:07
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Cythereal posted:The main point of the Tau narratively, in my opinion, is that they genuinely believe they're good guys and act like it. They think they live in a rational universe where reason, diplomacy, and the common good can prevail. Yeah that's basically it, although the Farsight has realised and is not so much broken as made stronger, also the Ethereals do know and are kind of constantly lying to the rest of the empire to keep them from collapsing from sheer abject horror at the universe. For example the Tau believe the Warp to be a silly fairytale the other races believe in, and that psykers are a type of science they don't understand. Generally the belief is that they were created because Games Workshop realised anime was a thing that exists and was a massive market they hadn't ever tried to cash in on, it didn't really work that way and that's a fan theory not something that's official. I personally think it was an attempt to make a new faction without thinking it through entirely and then quickly back-pedalling when the new faction was almost universally hated by their traditional player-base and that back-pedalling worked really well in my opinion. Also whilst a lot of people still have issues with the Tau far more people have issues with Matt loving Ward, yes the loving is both intentional and most players would find necessary, and I personally have a problem with Robin Cruddace because he seriously ruined my faction and made them a real mess that hasn't yet been fixed meaningfully.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:14
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The universe is full of people who are almost good guys, but don't quite make it. The Eldar really just don't want anything too terrible to happen, even if they're arrogant shitheels while doing it. The Tau are almost there, except for all the forced sterilisation and that sort of thing. The Orks just want to have fun. The Imperium is just trying to survive. Most of the Necrons really just want to be left alone a lot of the time.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:38
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The minor races are the good guys, which is why they quickly get enslaved, eaten, or otherwise annihilated.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:39
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I'll highly disagree with anyone who says the Imperium are the good guys. For a bit of Ork related flavor, the greatest Ork in the galaxy (both in terms of power and actual size) is Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka. Ghaz is named after the British prime minister at the time of the game's (Warhammer 40k, not Dawn of War) making, Margaret Thatcher (MagUruk Thraka). The prime mover of the British Hooligan faction of 40k is the Iron Lady. Make of it what you will. my dad fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 16:42
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also whilst a lot of people still have issues with the Tau far more people have issues with Matt loving Ward, yes the loving is both intentional and most players would find necessary, and I personally have a problem with Robin Cruddace because he seriously ruined my faction and made them a real mess that hasn't yet been fixed meaningfully. To be fair to Matt Ward, while most of the changes he made were kind of poo poo, he did give us TRAZYN THE INFINITE who is.... well... I'll just let the fluff piece speak for itself. Newcron codex posted:"Dear Lady, let me express my fulsome appreciation for your most generous gift. It is so very rare to discover another of my own kind that appreciates my work, therefore to find understanding amongst a member of another race is nothing short of a revelation. I realise that you briefly trod my galleries, but the fact that you spotted in so short a time that my Acabrius War collection was lacking three regiments of Catachan warriors reveals that you truly have a collector's eye for detail. And to send five regiments! Such generosity will allow me to weed out and replace a few of the more substandard pieces in my collection. If I might level a minor criticism, the instructions issued to your gift were manifestly not as clear as you thought, as most of them had to be forcibly restrained -- sadly it seems that the lower orders will always behave like an army of invasion, whether that be their purpose or not. However, this is a minor complaint and seems almost churlish under the circumstances, so please allow me to repay your gift with one of my own. Accompanying this message is the Hyperstone Maze, one of a series of Tesseract Labyrinths constructed at the height of the Charnovokh Dynasty. It is a trinket really, only of interest to scholars such as you and I, but I trust you will find it amusing -- assuming you have the wit to escape its clutches, of course." So he's not ALL bad. Just when he's writing about the ULTRAMARINES and Grey Knights.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:51
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Allow me to preface this post by saying "gently caress the Eldar". You have do two things to win against the Eldar: have infiltration detecting units and lock them down ASAP. I one spent three hours on a map, constantly destroying bases over and over again because Taldeer kept sneaking worker units across the map to build new bases. I had a huge victory Space Marine army marching all over the map, that she couldn't kill, but I couldn't win because everytime I nuked one base she'd already have another one up somewhere else. It was maddening. On the topic of 40K lore, it is important to remember that it is all canon. Even the bits that conflict. Especially the bits that conflict.
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Aug 17, 2015 20:01
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my dad posted:For a bit of Ork related flavor, the greatest Ork in the galaxy (both in terms of power and actual size) is Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka. Ghaz is named after the British prime minister at the time of the game's (Warhammer 40k, not Dawn of War) making, Margaret Thatcher (MagUruk Thraka). The prime mover of the British Hooligan faction of 40k is the Iron Lady. Make of it what you will. That's--loving hilarious!
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Aug 17, 2015 21:15
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Blind Sally posted:That's--loving hilarious! It's largely fallen by the wayside, but like Judge Dredd Warhammer 40k started off as a satire of then-contemporary British society.
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Aug 17, 2015 21:18
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40k was also originally a joke that came about because players were complaining Fantasy was too 'grim and dark' and the writers had A: Read a shitload of 2000 AD comics and B: Were like 'Oh, you want Grim and Dark? We'll show you the silliest loving Grim Darkness ever'.
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Aug 17, 2015 21:28
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RickVoid posted:On the topic of 40K lore, it is important to remember that it is all canon. Even the bits that conflict.
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Aug 17, 2015 21:29
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If I understand correctly, catgirls are canon Bloody loving catgirls in WH40k are canon
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Aug 17, 2015 21:33
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dasmause posted:Bloody loving catgirls in WH40k are canon
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Aug 17, 2015 21:34
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dasmause posted:If I understand correctly, catgirls are canon Yep. IIRC they were briefly mentioned at one point in one of the Dark Heresy books as an abhuman (evolutionary offshoot of humanity like ogryns and ratlings) that the Imperium deemed impure and exterminated.
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Aug 17, 2015 21:34
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Poil posted:Is Slaanesh involved in any way? Nope, they're aligned with Imperium I think Slaanesh is a whole new strain of hosed up poo poo Cythereal posted:Yep. IIRC they were briefly mentioned at one point in one of the Dark Heresy books as an abhuman (evolutionary offshoot of humanity like ogryns and ratlings) that the Imperium deemed impure and exterminated. God drat it, finally humanity achieved actual catgirls and they get nuked But aren't one of Spess Mehren's chapter members basically beastmen? Space Wolves IIRC? dasmause fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 21:35
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dasmause posted:If I understand correctly, catgirls are canon They're classed as abhumans, but the felinids of the planet Carlos McConnell definitely exist. And I just found this LP and am greatly enjoying it. Loved playing as the Tau in Dark Crusade, though I always went Mont'ka for the Hammerheads and Battlesuits. Broadsides are boss as well. Never really liked or used the Tau Relic unit, though. I think I went Missile Pods first with my wargear, then the jetpack, and then rushed the Plasma Rifle, since that thing is so good. Also, O'Kais's banter (or lack thereof) with Eliphas in the Chaos stronghold mission is one of the best parts of this game. Cythereal posted:The main point of the Tau narratively, in my opinion, is that they genuinely believe they're good guys and act like it. They think they live in a rational universe where reason, diplomacy, and the common good can prevail. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 21:50
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GhostStalker posted:There's that bit of fluff where they first encountered a Chaos warband and thought that they killed Slannesh when they shot the Chaos Champion leading the band. The Tau are naive as all hell, but that and their superior firepower makes me like them all the more. gently caress your Titans, we have Manta gunships. The Tau are one of my favorite parts of 40k. It's a shame GW missed their own point with them and kept sliding more into 'No really they're just evil fascists like everyone else' instead of 'No, these are the guys who A: Haven't hosed up yet and B: Might gently caress up later.'
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Aug 17, 2015 21:54
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dasmause posted:
And the Blood Angels are Literally Vampires. Night10194 posted:The Tau are one of my favorite parts of 40k. It's a shame GW missed their own point with them and kept sliding more into 'No really they're just evil fascists like everyone else' instead of 'No, these are the guys who A: Haven't hosed up yet and B: Might gently caress up later.' I liked them as the kinda naive guys who don't quite get what this corner of the universe is like and also they just so happen to have the kind of firepower that makes Exterminatus look like indoor fireworks. The idea of a race who are like 'we come in peace, but just in case...' never fails to make me smile.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:02
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The Felinids are canon yeah, but they have never really been described in any sort of detail. So we might as well run with this.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:05
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Theantero posted:The Felinids are canon yeah, but they have never really been described in any sort of detail. Hahahaha, goddamnit, some of the fan canon stuff people have linked is hilarious. So what's the deal with all things in W40K being canon? Like, this LP is canon by existing? How does that work? Is it some GW ploy to keep their fans making awesome videos and songs?
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Aug 17, 2015 22:10
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GhostStalker posted:There's that bit of fluff where they first encountered a Chaos warband and thought that they killed Slannesh when they shot the Chaos Champion leading the band. The Tau are naive as all hell, but that and their superior firepower makes me like them all the more. gently caress your Titans, we have Manta gunships. While Tau dish out superior fire power they have a big problem with logistics to my understanding. They need new ammo for their guns and they need supply lines for that. Also their weapons require experts to fix and they are prone to breaking since they are high tech. Imperial guards lasguns are pretty simple to get ammo for. Just throw the ammo catridge into a fire and after a moment its ready to be fired again. Lasguns also never break so they are incredibly reliable. Orks on the other hand just put trash into their guns. They also fix their guns with trash. Eldar can use the webway to get their ammo so its less of an issue for them. I don't think their weapons really break either since they just fire shruikens mostly.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:11
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Blind Sally posted:Hahahaha, goddamnit, some of the fan canon stuff people have linked is hilarious. So what's the deal with all things in W40K being canon? Like, this LP is canon by existing? How does that work? Is it some GW ploy to keep their fans making awesome videos and songs? Nah, pretty much 40k seems to dance a fine line between being just accessible enough to attract enough of the awesome creative types, while being just non-newbie friendly enough to scare away most of the lovely fandom creative types. Not that the latter type don't pop up from time from time to time to poo poo out some horrible fetish style fan art.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:17
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Blind Sally posted:Hahahaha, goddamnit, some of the fan canon stuff people have linked is hilarious. So what's the deal with all things in W40K being canon? Like, this LP is canon by existing? How does that work? Is it some GW ploy to keep their fans making awesome videos and songs? GW is actually really loving stingy with their trademarks, but as long as you don't make any money off of it, it should be ok. Otherwise, almost all of the 40k poo poo on 1d4chan wouldn't exist. That stuff, Dawn of War, Abnett's books, and Ciaphas Cain wer what got me into 40k in the first place.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:17
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I actually really liked Tau for being the naive race. They are still my favorite of the WH40k races and without them I'd have never really gotten into the setting.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:43
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Godna posted:I actually really liked Tau for being the naive race. They are still my favorite of the WH40k races and without them I'd have never really gotten into the setting. They also gave the Imperium something unique to be afraid of. With a lot of the other foes, the Imperium's propaganda isn't that far from the truth (beyond underestimating them). With the Tau, at least originally, it absolutely was bullshit. The Tau were an ideological threat, a group of people who hadn't given up on everything yet. Reading about the Imperials freaking out about that was always fun.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:52
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