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PantsOptional posted:Lightsabers in the FaD book are Damage 6, Crit 2, Breach 1, Sunder. They're still pretty brutal but slightly less so since I believe the one you were using is Crit 1 as well. They can also be upgraded from that base to become even worse than in EotE or AoR. Breach is the thing that makes the fight short and brutal. Most characters will have 3 or 4 soak for most attacks but not for lightsabers (thanks to breach) so in effect you might as well add 4 to get to the effective damage. Thats why cortosis armour is a must if you are up against lightsabers to help you not die as quickly. A couple of weeks ago I managed to take out my characters lightsaber (slightly upgraded FaD base model) and went upagainst a rival Sith. I had phryk armour (GM ruled it takes breach down to pearce 2 until it gets taken out), two ranks in parry and went first so I came out alive on 5 health left and a crit down with a dead Sith (rolled 89 on the crit roll +many from the over damage).
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Aug 3, 2015 19:41
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Everblight posted:Breach 1 is what does it, that is Pierce 10, which means most characters might as well not be wearing armor. Crit 1 is kind of a big deal, too. Lightsabers are OP. I'd say everything else is nerfed, and lightsabers are the only weapon that is as effective in the game as it is on-screen.
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Aug 3, 2015 20:18
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Madurai posted:I'd say everything else is nerfed, and lightsabers are the only weapon that is as effective in the game as it is on-screen. Eh, real problem is pretty much everybody who gets shot with a blaster and takes significant damage in the movies is a minion. Luke drat near ignored being shot in his bionic hand, and Leia didn't seem all that disabled considering she blew the stormtroopers away right after being hit. Judging "effectiveness" is kinda hard to do when we don't exactly have a lot of examples of damage to PC equivalents.
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Aug 4, 2015 02:44
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Any images of what an HA-5 Aerial Retreat looks like? Or plans for one?
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Aug 12, 2015 20:41
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Having just got my hands on Force and Destiny I have two things. The first is rules. Can i check that for modding a lightsaber you can just add the mod (as long as you have hardpoints) and you get the base mod. If you want the modification options you choose the one you want, roll a 3 purple mechanics check (with a 2 dice downgrade for your lightsaber and add force dice), spend the cash and if you succeed you get just the mod (with the exception of a triumph) and no more? Then its pick another, make the roll +1 purple and pay the cash and see how it goes? The other point is a couple of art bits that seem out of place. The picture of Lia in her Endor leather dress shows a lot of thigh for seeming no reason other than mild titillation and the bit on page 32 just screams D&D sorceresses fighting with the outfits and doesn't mesh with the rest of the artwork,. Most of the art is fantastic but thee two bits stand out as a bit of a tits and rear end style stuff that isn't in the other books.
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Aug 13, 2015 20:06
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Foxtrot_13 posted:The other point is a couple of art bits that seem out of place. The picture of Lia in her Endor leather dress shows a lot of thigh for seeming no reason other than mild titillation and the bit on page 32 just screams D&D sorceresses fighting with the outfits and doesn't mesh with the rest of the artwork,. Most of the art is fantastic but thee two bits stand out as a bit of a tits and rear end style stuff that isn't in the other books. I don't really see it on the Leia art; there's not nearly enough leg on display for me to consider it even mild titillation... But as for the "sorceresses" picture, I see exactly what you mean. I guess they're trying to include some art of more...bombastic force usages (perhaps specifically the Dathomiri witches and the like), but it seems especially out of place given the context of the page its on.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:27
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At least the sorceress picture is so small you need a magnifying glass to really make out any detail.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:41
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What exactly is a Corellian Sendoff? Is it something FFG invented, or did it happen in a comic or something that was a signature move or some poo poo?
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Aug 14, 2015 15:36
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MadDogMike posted:Eh, real problem is pretty much everybody who gets shot with a blaster and takes significant damage in the movies is a minion. Luke drat near ignored being shot in his bionic hand, and Leia didn't seem all that disabled considering she blew the stormtroopers away right after being hit. Judging "effectiveness" is kinda hard to do when we don't exactly have a lot of examples of damage to PC equivalents. Leia got dropped by one stunbolt on her ship. Artoo was shot twice (admittedly, the first time was a laser cannon), and we don't know how many bolts hit Threepio in Cloud City.
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Aug 14, 2015 17:16
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Elendil004 posted:What exactly is a Corellian Sendoff? Is it something FFG invented, or did it happen in a comic or something that was a signature move or some poo poo? It's kind of like a Cosby sweater, which is just a variation on a Cleveland steamer
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Aug 14, 2015 22:29
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So I can't imagine the game system lends itself to it, and will likely only have opposition grog, but does anyone know if and where grognards.txt for this delightful game exists? I'm curious as to how people could contrive complaints in it. 
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Aug 17, 2015 13:59
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Honestly the worst I've seen is some mocking of funny dice symbols..and only from people who never actually tried playing.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:05
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That's what I'm guessing: just grognards complaining about it not being real role playing or other dumb things cuz it doesn't have lots of numbers and charts. I can't imagine the setting lends itself to the bad rape/misogyny grog cuz Leia is front and center either.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:09
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I bought the system and I've played it but there were a few things (for example, the extremely high lethality and how it is an extremely GM intensive game) that put me off it and made our group move on to other things. I think there is some criticism that can be leveled at the game but in the end it just wasn't right for our group, although the above might not be a problem for other groups.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:12
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I actually have experience the opposite with the lethality ; my players are nigh-invulnerable. Although I have learned that the problem is that FFG's default enemy stat blocks are hilariously low-balled.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:27
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Because of the high damage of guns and low HP it seemed to take only a couple of shots to take out characters, which made every fight seem like we would have people going down, getting stimpacked back up and repeat. Also Onslaught at Arda was an awful adventure.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:32
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Space combat is truly atrocious, especially as you try and design more complex encounters.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:46
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I can see starship combat being p bad. My friends and I started this cuz we wanted to role play our x wing dudes outside of x wing. It seems that unless you want to make everything abstract, it would be a pain tracking anything more than a small skirmish cuz your gunners and other guys are all doing separate small scenes and those are tedious, I agree. I can see the case for high lethality too. My friends and I have played dark heresy before so we probably approached this game with more caution.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:57
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I tried to run an encounter with my 6 players in a YT-1300, a hostile Gozanti Cruiser (which has like 5 guns) and then another Gozanti Cruiser which appeared hostile to the PCs but was actually there to attack the first Gozanti. Anyway I went through about half a round of combat doing 7 or 8 NPC actions and I just said "gently caress this you guys win the battle let's move on with this story." The second Gozanti jumping in had a great narrative effect (the players were all like "oh poo poo we're hosed now") and there was great dramatic effect as I tell them it warps in and makes an attack and I roll the dice in the open and it was a pretty high number and they're like oh_shit.png and then OH MY GOD IT ATTACKED THE FIRST CRUISER but then any dramatic effect was gone as the 3rd battery did 3 points of damage to a 50 HP cruiser. I don't think it'd be as bad if you had bunch of fighters versus other fighters, or if you abstracted larger ships to only have one move and one weapon action (hint: you'll probably need to do this ahead of time, it's a bit too complicated to restat a ship on the fly), but as it is a single weapon on a large ship may not do that much damage so you'll need a lot of weapons firing and four or five weapons a turn per ship, it just becomes a slog. Also really hard for the GM, because instead of just controlling an enemy ship, you're controlling the pilot and each gunner and probably an engineer etc on the ship.
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Aug 17, 2015 15:25
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FISHMANPET posted:I tried to run an encounter with my 6 players in a YT-1300, a hostile Gozanti Cruiser (which has like 5 guns) and then another Gozanti Cruiser which appeared hostile to the PCs but was actually there to attack the first Gozanti. Anyway I went through about half a round of combat doing 7 or 8 NPC actions and I just said "gently caress this you guys win the battle let's move on with this story." And everyone on the ship except the pilot has very little choice. They're just rolling dice for the one thing they can do at their post. It's like having a game system of thrilling adventure except when the PCs get to stairs or a ladder, at which point you have to roll dice for each PC on every step/rung. It really makes you want to design adventures that have no stairs or ladders. I totally agree that the game is lethal. PCs start out pretty weak, even against traditional blaster fire, but once you start rolling a lot of dice per shot on both sides of a firefight, you're going to have some rolls where a LOT of Advantage comes up. Autofire, Criticals, and other effects become more common both ways.
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Aug 17, 2015 15:50
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FISHMANPET posted:Space combat is truly atrocious, especially as you try and design more complex encounters. I've joked with our GM that rather than doing space combat, we should hack together some version of X-Wing staged-encounters and use that for our campaign.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:07
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That is what my group does. We're trying to make this like wraith squadron / top gun in space. Still trying to figure out how to make an ewok...
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Aug 17, 2015 16:12
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Any books have values for trade goods?
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Aug 17, 2015 16:35
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Elendil004 posted:Any books have values for trade goods? The core rulebook for EotE has rules for trading (markup for distance and tech level basically), based on the sale price of anything that has a price tag in any supplement, as well as values for larger amounts of spice, if that's your thing.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:38
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The two biggest issues my group has come across is that space combat very much only includes the pilot and it seems to be easier than it should be to fail a simple difficulty dice roll with three dice (but get plenty of advantage). Overall it is a good system for a heroic narrative game.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:50
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Foxtrot_13 posted:The two biggest issues my group has come across is that space combat very much only includes the pilot and it seems to be easier than it should be to fail a simple difficulty dice roll with three dice (but get plenty of advantage). If space combat only makes the pilot feel engaged, you're doing it wrong. When you're stumped, watch the original trilogy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvJDItC6tE0 You've got: Han Piloting Chewie working on the shields Chewie astrogating (and rolling a despair) Han and Chewie fixing things Leia piloting with 3P0 assisting (since neither are that great, they get to play off each other) back to Han and Chewie piloting 3P0 calculating the odds Now add in the fact that you could have guys doing gunnery, guys slicing the enemy systems and jamming electronics, etc. As a GM you can do so many fun things with despairs (and you can be liberal with destiny because it's supposed to be epic). Have cargo break lose and guys have to run back and secure it. Things can break, systems can go down, the enemy can clamp on and try to board, etc. homullus posted:The core rulebook for EotE has rules for trading (markup for distance and tech level basically), based on the sale price of anything that has a price tag in any supplement, as well as values for larger amounts of spice, if that's your thing. I was looking for more trade goods, grain, metals, etc. Elendil004 fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 16:58
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Elendil004 posted:If space combat only makes the pilot feel engaged, you're doing it wrong. If "getting to roll dice and have some impact" is what it takes to have your players engaged, it works. If they want to actually decide something, though, the pilot has almost all of those.
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Aug 17, 2015 17:10
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You can boil everything down to "make a die roll on your turn" and the game sucks that way. There's a huge difference between "I shoot at the TIE fighter, [rolls gunnery]" and "I track the TIE and try to keep my shot lined up [rolls gunnery, fails with advantage]. Missing, I yell to the other gunner "You got one coming in low, I missed him but he's shaken up, he's all yours! [allowing the other gunner to make a shot with a boost die]." etc. But yes, if you run boring space combat then space combat is boring.
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Aug 17, 2015 17:20
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Elendil004 posted:You can boil everything down to "make a die roll on your turn" and the game sucks that way. In a terrestrial gun battle, a gunhaver can look around for a more advantageous position, or a piece of the environment to interact with. If she wants to move, she moves where and when she wants to. In a space battle, a gunhaver is in a fixed position, and his movement is dictated in whole or in part by others. He can decide to fire or not to fire (which is no decision at all). In space battles with terrain or larger ships, he might choose to target something else, if it happens to be within his firing arc. It is this, rather than how one chooses to describe actions (which can be applied or not to either kind of combat), that I am talking about.
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Aug 17, 2015 17:28
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homullus posted:In a terrestrial gun battle, a gunhaver can look around for a more advantageous position, or a piece of the environment to interact with. If she wants to move, she moves where and when she wants to. I just disagree wholeheartedly. I feel like if a player is ever feeling worthless either they need to do something cool or the GM is being too restrictive. My answer to "space battle are boring" isn't "do less space battles" it's "Make them exciting"
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Aug 17, 2015 17:47
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The trick to space battles is that the enemy ship is one big NPC that may have multiple attacks in a round, and you treat your players like they're playing FTL. Your combat map is always centered around your ship, and your pilot always takes the first PC spot to do a fancy move. Everyone else then runs around the ship manning guns or repairing or jamming incoming missiles or calculating a jump vector that keeps changing because the drat pilot just changed your heading 180 degrees because a VSD just jumped in ahead, etc etc. If you keep it fast paced, it's drat fun and exciting.
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Aug 17, 2015 17:48
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Elendil004 posted:I just disagree wholeheartedly. Do you disagree that pilots get to make the most decisions? Because that's the point I am making, that you continue to address as a problem of how one describes the single roll without decisions that a player very likely must make on his turn.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:04
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My guys have found a really unique way to get around the whole "pilots do everything" type of senario, but this might be more specific to the game I'm running for them. They stole a Correlian corvette from the empire (don't ask, it was a series of rolls that were too good for me to not let them get away with it), and since its a capital type ship, the pilot really has the least important role. The big guy is now the commander/squad leader who's shouting commands at the others, including the pilot. The pilot now runs a fighter squad (he controls all of them as a single unit) and the others are all having a blast running their small part of the capital ship. But since thats now the norm for them, when they go back to their freighter, they each pick a thing that they know how to do and do it really, really well. And the commander still barks orders to everyone instead of the pilot making all the decisions. Because thats how they know what to do now. So what I'm saying is, the system is really really designed for capital ship combat to be super exiciting, and if you stick your guys on a freighter for too long they'll probably groan and moan if the have do their one roll to rebalance the shields or whatever. Give them a Star Destroyer. This is Star Wars, not loving Traveller. Mustache Ride fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 18:27
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Jeez guys, if things are boring just make them exciting, it's so obvious! This isn't an issue that's relegated to Star Wars in particular either, it's a difficulty that a lot of games featuring group spaceship/naval combat or the equivalent thereof suffer from in that "getting everyone involved" means "having people sit at their assigned stations and roll dice on the same action over and over again like an automated process until you accrue sufficient numbers to win the encounter." Homulus has correctly identified the root of the issue which is that being stuck on a vessel severely limits your ability to "do exciting things" simply by virtue of the fact that you're stuck in a loving enclosed space at the whim of the pilot. This is going to limit the sorts of things you can do by default. Some games get around this better than others since they involve things like boarding actions which can turn more agency over to players who aren't the guy in charge of the ship...Swashbucklers of the 7 Skies has wingsuits that you can use to leap from one ship to another, Rogue Trader has everything from boarding torpedoes to teleporters...but Star Wars doesn't really do a lot with that, so the traditional arrangement of a PC group on a modified freighter running from/fighting Imperials largely boils down to "do you want to roll your skill on your turn y/n?"
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Aug 17, 2015 18:28
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It would work much better if the players started with a freighter AND [number of PCs minus 1] fighters.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:31
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It might help if you encourage your players to think outside the box, e.g. put on a space suit and grab a missile launcher and start taking pot shots out the airlock That said whenever I run a campaign I'm just throwing out the space combat rules and subbing in x-wing.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:38
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Forget a space suit, be a droid and leap out the airlock so you can tear that enemy ship apart with your bare claws. What's the worst that can happen? You overshoot your target at several hundred km/h and hurtle through the endless void of space forever? The vehicle combat has been the most confusing and aggravating for our group in general, but luckily we've mostly kept it to a minimum so far since none of us have any appreciable piloting or gunnery skill either. Our last major space battle saw our NPC companion vaporize all the enemy fighters by himself with a turret while I shouted the enemy into submissiveness via coercion checks over the broadcast channel. I've been trying to have my droid slowly amass a mighty fleet of stolen vehicles though, which I intend to eventually staff with more droids/autonomous systems or just use them as expendable mobile ramming platforms. VoidTek fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 18:49
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Players should be using magna-grapples to hook onto nearby asteroids and swing through the luminiferous aether onto the enemy ship, imo.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:55
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I don't think it's wrong that the Pilot has more to do in a space battle. That person invested skills into piloting a ship and thus should be rewarded by doing cool poo poo in space. I don't think this a valid complaint about the SWRPG. That said, you as a GM should do all of the poo poo the above posters said so that the other PCs aren't just twiddling their thumbs. Edit: I personally love the "play like it's FTL in Star Wars" style of play. Why yes, some imperials managed to sneak on board the ship. Of course there's a fire heading towards the engine/armory. ACValiant fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 19:45
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Looselybased posted:I don't think it's wrong that the Pilot has more to do in a space battle. That person invested skills into piloting a ship and thus should be rewarded by doing cool poo poo in space. I don't think this a valid complaint about the SWRPG. There's nothing wrong about the pilot getting to do cool pilot-y stuff and I don't think anyone here is saying that, but "everyone stuck aboard a spaceship for a spaceship encounter" is one of those things that many RPGs have yet to find a satisfactory method of handling that doesn't boil down to "the pilot makes the big decisions, everyone else rolls an appropriate skill over and over until the encounter ends." It's not a unique failing to Star Wars, but it's not unreasonable for someone to look at the prospect of another "thrilling" space chase where they get to roll Shoot Space Guns repeatedly with no other real options until things come to an end or the GM decides enough is enough and shuffles things along.
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Aug 17, 2015 19:50
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