|
Kai Tave posted:I think the problem here is that "dropping a brand name on a piece of gear to explain why it's badass" really only works one time for any given piece of gear, after which everyone at the table is probably going to be like "yeah yeah, we get it, your Arisaka gun is badass for the 50th loving time." Lurks With Wolves posted:I mean, people don't actually go around calling things by their brand name every time they use them. Giving people a better combat move that only unlocks when they use their gear's full product name just means people are going to talk like they're in a bad commercial. If that's too complicated or strays too far from conventions about hold, you could have a peripheral move that triggers when you first mention the brand name of one of your pieces of equipment, adding a few tags or advanced tags from a select list. Although a move like that might not necessarily fit a game where equipment is already assumed to be fully tailored in terms of the mechanics when it is first acquired, so maybe it would only trigger on gear that hasn't already been branded.
|
# ? Aug 13, 2015 19:29 |
|
|
# ? May 3, 2024 02:24 |
|
I just like the idea proposed further upthread where when you select your gear at chargen you give it a brand name then explain what makes it awesome and what makes it bad/cheap/dated etc. with every playbook having different arrangements thereof.
|
# ? Aug 13, 2015 19:37 |
|
Tulpa posted:Fair enough, and I think I'm probably more critical of MH than most people here as I would class it as 2nd-circle instead of 3rd-circle (come to think of it, there hasn't actually been a 3rd-circle game) I'd actually like to hear some of your gripes with MH; I like it a lot (after ~5-6 sessions or so) and have yet to see any serious criticism of it that doesn't come strictly from being uncomfortable with the game's premise.
|
# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:10 |
|
After 200 hours, I don't know if there are any monstrous teens left to inhabit!
|
# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:13 |
|
The point behind all the gear worship in SR in terms of tone, which is what PbtA game is all about, is that is illuminates the complete corporate control of society. Spergin' around with hundreds of gear-checks and items completely misses the point - PbtA games are always about what the characters can do, not what their equipment is. I think what you would need is a move like this: When you try to buy a piece of equipment, roll +Contacts. On a hit choose 3, on a 7-9, choose 2, on a miss, choose 1. - You don't attract unwanted attention. - You find what you're looking for at a price you can afford. - The item's brand name is known for a quality of your choice, +Quality. -The Item's brand name doesn't have a well known drawback. If the item's brand hasn't been introduced in your game yet, you now owe that company 1 hold. (which we're presuming the MC uses to make moves with that company.) Impermanent fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Aug 13, 2015 |
# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:22 |
|
Captain Foo posted:This was the point of doing it this way. People get mentioned offhandedly, and you keep track of that information. The full list of mine included their loyalties and their stomping grounds, so as the game went on if I needed an NPC for this or that, I could use one that already existed. Makes the game feel more alive, to me. Agreed, just it's a thing I did anyway and it's confused me again. As I say it happens a lot with AW. Parkreiner posted:I'd actually like to hear some of your gripes with MH; I like it a lot (after ~5-6 sessions or so) and have yet to see any serious criticism of it that doesn't come strictly from being uncomfortable with the game's premise. I'd also like to hear it; I've probably played even less but I like what I saw.
|
# ? Aug 13, 2015 20:23 |
|
Bucnasti posted:I loved GURPS back in the day, I'd probably play a GURPS Shadowrun game, but I don't have time to do all that work. This exactly! Kai Tave posted:This is another problem a lot of would-be Shadowrun *World hacks run into. The last draft of Sixth World I looked at had Matrix rules that were like ten pages long. The Sprawl's were only like two pages and I even thought that might have been a bit excessive, but we'll see. The pervasiveness of the Hacker Dungeon is seriously to me, and I wish it would just die. I think the Matrix would work best with Workshop rules. Something like: quote:When you hit the Matrix and dedicate yourself to owning a network, hacking some heavy metal, or to getting to the bottom of some poo poo, decide what and tell the MC. Thee MC will tell you “sure, no problem, but...” and then 1 to 4 of the following: Want to hack a Yakuza Gambling Webfront? Sure, no problem, but first you'll have to figure out the IP address, and it's going to mean exposing yourself (plus colleagues) to serious danger. Want to disable the cameras at a local warehouse? Sure, no problem, but first you'll need to build a GPU-based mobile cracker, or the best you'll be able to do is a crap version, weak and unreliable. Want to hit the Renraku Arcology research databanks? Sure, no problem, but you're going to need Russian ICbreakers to help you with it and it's going to take physical access to their network, OR it's going to cost you a fuckton of nuyen and you're going to need some some serious computing power. And, of course, once those requirements are met, BAM, it's done. One of the most resounding parts of Gibson's writings was that Matrix runs happened fast. Faster than fast. It was the sort of thing you prepared for for days, and then you burned hard through in a few seconds tops. Bringing that back is a good idea. Then add some other move like : quote:When you want to pwn someone's gear in the middle of combat, roll+Hacking. On a 10+, pick 2. On a 7--9 pick 1. It might be better if there was another choice, but I'm not coming up with one off the cuff. Those two slapped together with something like "Console Cowboy" that acts like No-poo poo Driver but for your deck is probably a good step in the right direction for a fun-to-play decker. I guess this precludes hardcore decker-on-decker action, but I'm not certain that's a particularly interesting loss because literally no other character can be a part of that. And if you wanted to, just use the basic moves with the deck-boosted stats or whatever. poo poo, now I want to write a Shadowrun hack. Which seems like one of the classic blunders, right up there with Land Wars in Asia. Impermanent posted:The point behind all the gear worship in SR in terms of tone, which is what PbtA game is all about, is that is illuminates the complete corporate control of society. Spergin' around with hundreds of gear-checks and items completely misses the point - PbtA games are always about what the characters can do, not what their equipment is. Yes and no. In all the big works of cyberpunk, and especially in Shadowrun, gear defines a character as much as anything else. Maybe the little details don't matter, but your cybereyes do as much to define your character as your strength. They state something about your views of mortality, and your personal opinion about the value of your original eyes versus roboeyes that work better. They help define what your character can do, and what they will do. The other part of playing Shadowrun and gear, and what I tried to hint at in my last post but clearly didn't go a good job of, is that of exploiting and improving your gear post-chargen. For exploitation, coming up with a crazy solution because you had the gear for it is a lot of fun. (That said, a decent flashback mechanism can also serve that purpose). For improvement, buying new ware in SR exercises the scarcity of money in a real way, and does a good deal to establish the tone of Shadowrun. Finding a guy to sell you assault rifles might be a roll, but a new nervous system? That requires a fake license, a trusted doctor, a recovery clinic, more money than your group is going to make total in three runs, and so on. It's a long-term project, and the system needs to acknowledge and support that. Making it into "5 XP and a check box" or "Roll for some gear" removes that experience, and the tone with it. (Incidentally, BitD has a system for this that works well.)
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 07:09 |
|
QuantumNinja posted:It might be better if there was another choice, but I'm not coming up with one off the cuff. I would change it so that it reads "On a hit, the gear starts malfunctioning" because it's weird to me that you could roll a move all about making gear malfunction and not pick the "gear starts malfunctioning" option. Then make the choices on a 10+ or 7-9: -You briefly take control over the gear -They don't know what's causing the malfunction -The gear isn't easily repaired So now you can choose to either direct the nature of the malfunction yourself by taking control over the gear or you can leave how it malfunctions in the GM's hands, so choosing between greater or lesser narrative control essentially. The other two work fine as-is I think.
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 07:39 |
|
Parkreiner posted:I'd actually like to hear some of your gripes with MH; I like it a lot (after ~5-6 sessions or so) and have yet to see any serious criticism of it that doesn't come strictly from being uncomfortable with the game's premise. Sure! The season advance stuff is a shambles, with vaguely written rulings and literally just suggestions that you should go read Apocalypse World for advice even though they're significantly different games. Then there's other GM section stuff that feels under-written as well, in particular the game's example of play text makes reference to the "Disclaim Decision Making" move but this isn't a move in Monsterhearts, it's another piece of Apocalypse World that should be part of the main text of MH but is simply absent. Gaze into the Abyss is a conceptually great move (if you read the forum posts that lead to its development) but it's not great in practice. It's a move where the trigger is more interesting and important than the actual results of the move, and there's going to be situations where the MC is left grasping for straws from the 7-9 result being such a creative heavy-lift. Two of the most important moves in the game, Turn Someone On and Shut Someone Down, can be triggered without the character taking any action at all (shutting down by looking past someone like they don't exist is the most common instance of passive shutdowns) which can lead to weird and unsatisfying results when the mechanics don't seem to interface well with the fiction. The vampire's hypnosis is intentionally written to be really destructive towards player agency, and I think that's totally fine, but it's not a very fun move to be on the receiving end of. AW's Skinner had a move called Hypnotic as well but it was much better executed. In trying to be more simplified/less crunchy than AW, it actually makes the game harder to manage and less fun. I can go on about the season advance stuff, but I'll just keep it short, Growing Up Moves seem fine on paper but they suck in game, whether you hit or miss with them, they're just a disappointment narratively. Changing Skins is the biggest mess. People love doing that but it completely breaks the math in the game because even just one change of skins will allow characters to make most of their rolls at +2 or +3 if they pick their moves in a particular way, without significantly constraining what actions they take. ~5-6 sessions is the sweet spot for the mechanics to shine without being bogged down with all the niggling flaws. Personally, I would never play more than 2 seasons with the same setting/group of characters. I think that's one of the biggest flaws; I want to do the whole Buffy thing of following these characters through high school and into college but the game just doesn't survive that much play. None of this is to say I dislike Monsterhearts (because after all I played the game to death). Things like the String economy metagame and the general feel of each of the playbooks (teen archetypes as monsters) are really excellent. Thanlis posted:I'd be interested in your take on Cartel. It doesn't fall into the trap of using the same basic moves, damage is handled very differently, etc. Perhaps too early to judge given that it's not out in final form yet. I'd love to read and play Cartel but I do not own it. Tulpa fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Aug 14, 2015 |
# ? Aug 14, 2015 08:54 |
|
Thanks for the read Tulpa; it's interesting, but I'm not sure I've played enough MH to have definitive counters/agreement. For ages I've had the idea for an RPG where the players are members of an Japanese idol group who're trying to get and remain popular without coming under any particular scandal, becoming cynical, broken and jaded, or getting kicked out. Today it occurs to me that WWWRPG might have some of the kind of structure I'd need for that with the heat and audience mechanics, though I'm not quite sure how you'd do performances.
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 11:30 |
|
spectralent posted:Thanks for the read Tulpa; it's interesting, but I'm not sure I've played enough MH to have definitive counters/agreement. How about just straight-up reskinning WWW whole cloth? Stats: Look becomes Presence but remains the same conceptually - it's charm, screen/stage presence, commitment to Idol persona Power becomes Appearance - it's how good you look, period. The Power stat is used to "power through" wrestling in WWW; I suspect it would be genre-appropriate to have beautiful people being able to "power through" the Idol process. Work becomes Play - it's how skillful you are at actual singing, playing, dancing. Real remains Real - it's how good you are at bringing your real life into showbiz in a profitable manner. Moves: You can lift most of the basic moves without changing anything about them. The biggest change would be changing the Feat of Strength move to something like Appeal to your Beauty. You'll need to reskin Injuries to something appropriate as well, like maybe Scandals? Performances: Reskin Wrestling matches so they are collaborative, instead of competitive. Match control becomes the spotlight. Having the spotlight means all the eyes are on you and your singing/playing/dancing at that moment. The Wrestling Move still represents a big, impressive spot and display of skill. Botching it means going out of tune, stumbling, making a mistake: at that point, someone else who's also in the performance takes over the spotlight to save the song (transfer of match control). I don't know about this culture to give you playbook or Roles suggestions, but they're the main thing that'd change. Though I suspect reskinning the Roles wouldn't be too hard. Game structure is the same as WWW, "matches" (songs/performances) bracketed by promotional/personal/off-camera segments. The only real issue would be justifying who each performance's participants are. Maybe you can justify it by having everyone present on stage for all performances but only "allowing" the spotlight to switch between 2 or 3 players, as if the song were designed to highlight them. Or you can reskin one of the stipulation moves from WWW to allow everyone on stage at all times. Cyphoderus fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Aug 14, 2015 |
# ? Aug 14, 2015 11:54 |
|
I think WWWRPG would actually be a pretty natural conversion over to Idols. The main Any Match wrestling move is a great template for an "Any Concert" move (btw I really love the way spotlight is passed around in WWWRPG, spending momentum to steal it is great.)
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 11:56 |
|
Alternatively just have wrestling idols finishing up a jazzy pop number before slam dunking each other off stage More seriously you're probably right. I think the major issue is part of the drama I'd like to focus on would be off-stage stuff; rehearsals, in-fighting, politics with managers and producers, that kind of thing. For one thing I think injuries make perfect sense as a thing to still be there. Equally I don't think all scandals would naturally arise from being on stage; Japan's idol culture is some insane nightmare world where "teenager has a boyfriend" is grounds for a media frenzy, and that doesn't seem like the kind of thing that'd emerge naturally from being "in-ring" or the kind of things that you'd get up to (though "loving up a performance" or something probably would). I'd have to give some thought to it. You're definitely right that it's probably closer than I'd initially thought.
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 13:08 |
|
QuantumNinja posted:poo poo, now I want to write a Shadowrun hack. Which seems like one of the classic blunders, right up there with Land Wars in Asia. Me too. This conversation has really got me thinking, but I don't have anywhere near enough time. Although if I did, I would totally steal that move for hacking.
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 15:31 |
|
Tulpa posted:(Legit critique of high-level play). quote:The vampire's hypnosis is intentionally written to be really destructive towards player agency, and I think that's totally fine, but it's not a very fun move to be on the receiving end of. AW's Skinner had a move called Hypnotic as well but it was much better executed. In trying to be more simplified/less crunchy than AW, it actually makes the game harder to manage and less fun. Yeah, it's the worst core move by far. The rest of your critique is spot on.
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 17:15 |
|
You guys should go mention this stuff on the WWWRPG's G+ thing, I'm sure Nathan Paoletta would find it interesting. A couple days ago he was asking what people expect pricewise for a WWWRPG expansion/supplement, so it looks like he'll be working on one soon. Also, WWWRPG matches are totally collaborative. The wrestlers are entertainers and its their job to entertain, not win.
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 18:17 |
|
Now I want to see a WWWRPG hack for political campaigns, after this article: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/trump-models-campaign-after-pro-wrestling
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 18:22 |
|
Golden Bee, yeah, those are the flaws I see in MH that are things that a competent group and MC can work around but they are still things that will trip people up. Basically, my imagined fix for those flaws would just be a heavily expanded/reworked MC chapter. I've played in games with Avery before and it seems obvious that the MC section was written to support her style of MCing very well. I just wish that part of the book was written to more clearly explain her style of MCing.
|
# ? Aug 14, 2015 22:15 |
|
Remember that hack I was working on before? Friendship, Effort, Victory? The one that wasn't really all that good and kind of cringeworthy? Well, since the 2nd draft was enough of a proof of concept, I decided to move it from a first circle hack to a second circle hack.* As before, I've written out the Agenda, Princples, MK Moves, Stats, Debilities, Basic Moves, and Battle Moves. There are now ten playbooks and they have all been reworked. Since it's detached from AW now and is a standalone, the harm system has seen a complete overhaul to better emulate the genre. I've added in a guide to the 1st Session, rules for Arcs, and changed a few mechanics around such as adding Friendship/Enemy moves and Inspired/Awe. The ten playbooks are:
The Forever Young: Goku, Luffy, etc. The Host: Naruto, Ichigo, Maka, etc: people with monster's inside them. The Inventor: Dr. Stein, Bulma, you get the picture. The Jobber: loving Yamcha. Just loving Yamcha. The Mentor: Roshi, Piccolo, etc. The Punk: Ichigo, Yusuke, etc. The Rival: Vegeta. There are others, but it's Vegeta. The Straight Man (as in the comedy duo trope): Bulma, Sakura, Shinnpachi. The Tireless: Goku and Rock Lee. *To those who don't know what I mean, this is the arbitrary, dumb system I came up with for categorization: quote:
Edit: Also, I'd really love to get an overal impression, if possible. I have no idea if anyone of this is good at all. It'd be greatly appreciated. Be brutally honest, if need be. Covok fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Aug 17, 2015 |
# ? Aug 16, 2015 23:43 |
|
I remember someone had a great writeup on writing an Agenda and Principles for a hack, but I'm not sure if it was someone here or a link to the official forums, or something else. Anyone remember something like that?
|
# ? Aug 18, 2015 00:46 |
|
Bear Enthusiast posted:I remember someone had a great writeup on writing an Agenda and Principles for a hack, but I'm not sure if it was someone here or a link to the official forums, or something else. Anyone remember something like that? I would subscribe to that newsletter.
|
# ? Aug 18, 2015 00:49 |
|
Bear Enthusiast posted:I remember someone had a great writeup on writing an Agenda and Principles for a hack, but I'm not sure if it was someone here or a link to the official forums, or something else. Anyone remember something like that? Simple World is the closest I can think of. That it?
|
# ? Aug 18, 2015 00:56 |
|
TurninTrix posted:Simple World is the closest I can think of. That it? Yeah Simple World is probably the best place for anyone to start a new Hack.
|
# ? Aug 18, 2015 02:35 |
|
TurninTrix posted:Simple World is the closest I can think of. That it? I feel like there was some sort of blog post / article type thing about how important the agenda and principles are, but this is basically what I was looking for so thanks!
|
# ? Aug 18, 2015 03:13 |
|
RSIxidor posted:Anyone ever heard of a hack that's about starfighter jockeys? I'm tempted to throw together something quick based on this. Anything in particular you were trying to get with it? I'm wondering if it should capitalize more on the fighting aspect or the pilots/interpersonal relations aspect. The latter is kind of Night Witches' thing already, though of course the flavour is very different.
|
# ? Aug 18, 2015 13:00 |
|
Deltasquid posted:I'm tempted to throw together something quick based on this. Anything in particular you were trying to get with it? I'm wondering if it should capitalize more on the fighting aspect or the pilots/interpersonal relations aspect. The latter is kind of Night Witches' thing already, though of course the flavour is very different. I think it would cover both really. Maybe a flight/ground distinction in play might make sense. Alternatively, a game where you only play the characters while in flight might have some appeal... but it seems it would lose something essential to PBTA in inter-personal conflicts. Most of my thoughts seem to be based on sci-fi films and anime but I know there's quite a few classic films like Raiders in the Sky, Flying Leathernecks, The Dam Busters. I'm sure there's at least a hundred more to consider. Things I personally was thinking of are Top Gun, Macross/Robotech, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Last Exile, Knights of Sidonia, maybe a stretch but even Gundam, Mobile Police Patlabor and other mech series could be inspiring. I think my desired take is definitely more on the lighthearted, humorous and heroic side of these concepts, almost to the point of silliness.
|
# ? Aug 19, 2015 15:20 |
|
I would check out Gunskrieggen Valkyrie from FATE: it's airplane drama + pilot drama, easily reskinned from its post WW1 setting.
|
# ? Aug 19, 2015 16:38 |
|
Golden Bee posted:I would check out Gunskrieggen Valkyrie from FATE: it's airplane drama + pilot drama, easily reskinned from its post WW1 setting. Kriegszeppelin Valkyrie?
|
# ? Aug 19, 2015 17:05 |
|
RSIxidor posted:Kriegszeppelin Valkyrie? ValkZeperr Kyrgyzstan.
|
# ? Aug 20, 2015 01:47 |
|
Responded to the comments made on MageHack. Should have a few playbooks and more thoughts on the Hubris-sphere-playbook mechanics by the end of the week. \/\/\/ - Awesome! Thanks again. tokenbrownguy fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 23, 2015 |
# ? Aug 23, 2015 22:02 |
|
Verr posted:Responded to the comments made on MageHack. Should have a few playbooks and more thoughts on the Hubris-sphere-playbook mechanics by the end of the week. Yaaay! I was starting to get worried you'd died. I'll take a look at it after I get home from work tomorrow.
|
# ? Aug 23, 2015 22:24 |
|
I've run a few games using The Sprawl, but with the really old 0.3 rules. They're a bit of a kludge in places and I'd totally use newer rules but I didn't find out about them until several months after the kickstarter.
|
# ? Aug 27, 2015 01:31 |
|
Arashiofordo3 posted:Yaaay! I was starting to get worried you'd died. I'll take a look at it after I get home from work tomorrow. First Archetype and Mage Playbook are up on the draft. The Warrior and Puppetmaster. Not super happy with the former, but pretty excited about the latter. Still pondering the Magic-hubris-numbers.
|
# ? Aug 31, 2015 04:49 |
|
Judging by their G+ feed, it looks like we're going to get a PbtA Bundle of Holding very soon. They posted teasers of World Wide Wrestling, Monster of the Week, and what looks like Legacy. e: and by "soon" I mean "two minutes after I posted that". Base is Monsterheards, a Monsterhearts campaign book, Bootleggers (30's gangsters, new to me), and Cartel ("Mexican narcofiction", also new to me). BtA is Monster of the Week Revised, World Wide Wrestling, Legacy: Life Among The Ruins (generational post-apoc, goon written I think), and Deniable (another one I never heard of; dark British ordianry-people-swept-up-as-spies comedy ). Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Sep 1, 2015 |
# ? Sep 1, 2015 19:59 |
|
Yup, Legacy's mine It's an interesting bundle - I hadn't heard of a few of them, but I'm happy to be among such illustrious company as AW, Monsterhearts and World Wide Wrestling. E: stupid app autocorrecting WWW Flavivirus fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Sep 1, 2015 |
# ? Sep 1, 2015 20:50 |
|
Flavivirus posted:Yup, Legacy's mine I think you're missing the rest of that link.
|
# ? Sep 1, 2015 20:56 |
|
Huh. Bootleggers sounds up my alley but never heard of at all.
|
# ? Sep 1, 2015 20:56 |
|
unseenlibrarian posted:Huh. Bootleggers sounds up my alley but never heard of at all. It's by John Harper and I know he is a trusted name in game design. Unless I'm mistaking him for someone else.
|
# ? Sep 1, 2015 21:53 |
|
It was released as part of his Patreon, which would explain its unfamiliarity.
|
# ? Sep 1, 2015 21:56 |
|
|
# ? May 3, 2024 02:24 |
|
Note that Cartel isn't the final game but an "ashcan" edition. That said, I suspect that's not the primary thing most people will be buying this bundle for.
|
# ? Sep 2, 2015 00:27 |