Space and Medieval Engineers: The planets have more bugs than the games

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goatsestretchgoals: Jun 4, 2011

rossmum posted:

Goons! Specifically, goons who know how to computer! I have a thing I'd like to propose.

You can use either mechanical linkages or scripts for programmable blocks that will automatically cause all your (block-based) turrets to aim where the director is aiming. However, this can't account for parallax error by adjusting shot convergence, so it's only so useful. It also can't control actual prebuilt turrets, only block-based weapons. The first thing I thought when I saw the laser antenna was how much it looks like some kind of electro-optical targeting complex, like something you'd see on the nose of an Apache - would it be possible to create a modded block from it which automatically causes all turrets to aim at the specific point where it's aiming, thus accounting for the problems with the existing system and allowing for it in a smaller, less breakage-prone package?

As for everyone else, this is adorable and while I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, it looks like it might just answer my prayers for a compact, effective CIWS system that can be fed via conveyors and doesn't look like rear end.

Something like this sounds feasible, if you know where each of your turrets are in relation to the laser antenna, and you can get range out of the laser antenna somehow (its been a while since I've played), you can do some math to converge the turrets. One possible problem is that the rotors will only rotate to full degrees, so you might not be able to converge accurately a long way out.

E: Oh I'm speaking purely about programmable blocks, might be able to do something more clever with an actual mod.

# ? Aug 18, 2015 19:08

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# ? May 31, 2024 09:47

rossmum: Dec 2, 2008; Cummander ross, reporting for duty!

Yeah, I was thinking of an actual block for the director and then having that control either other turret blocks and/or rotor-based ones.

# ? Aug 18, 2015 19:21

Verizian: Dec 18, 2004; The spiky one.

There's always this if you want laser designated targeting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB726vvwm20

It's not the stock turrets but you could probably launch an autopiloted gunboat out with a basic patrol script that will use sensors and laser designator turrets to engage targets.

# ? Aug 18, 2015 20:28

rossmum: Dec 2, 2008; Cummander ross, reporting for duty!

Just totally replaced the powerplant! Now instead of a shitload of inefficient small reactors taking up entirely too much space and presenting too tempting a target, I've got six nice 150MW hydrogen reactors (and the processing facilities necessary to extract hydrogen from ice) taking up a third of the space, allowing me to concentrate the batteries in the bow so the first thing to eat poo poo isn't the main power circuit. I also added some more interior decorations, and emergency isolation shutters either side of the No.1 bulkhead.

Time to go upload some fancy screens to the Workshop page!

# ? Aug 18, 2015 22:07

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

rossmum posted:

The idea is that you turn your 'top' towards the biggest threat. Optimal ship design for space combat is a giant armoured ball with weapons poking out of it like impact sensors on a WWII sea mine - I don't really find that interesting, so I try to deliberately design (manageable) flaws into my ships to give them some flavour.

Concevably the optimal form of the turtle shell idea would be the opposite. Build your ship in a big line, armour the front to hell and back, then point it at the problem to present maximum armour and minimum sillhouette.

# ? Aug 18, 2015 22:32

rossmum: Dec 2, 2008; Cummander ross, reporting for duty!

You'd want it to be able to turn in a hurry, though, in case anything gets beside you - compared to an easy roll.

# ? Aug 18, 2015 23:30

Klyith: Aug 3, 2007; GBS Pledge Week

rossmum posted:

You'd want it to be able to turn in a hurry, though, in case anything gets beside you - compared to an easy roll.

Bigger problem with trying to build around a small profile is any weapons *also* have a minimum area for placement. So that limits you to either a singular very powerful weapon like a grav-gun, or the very few indirect fire weapons (fighters, drones, or programmed cruise missiles). And since all of that stuff is standoff range, why not ditch the heavy armor entirely and rely strictly on maneuverability and evasion?

# ? Aug 19, 2015 06:00

rossmum: Dec 2, 2008; Cummander ross, reporting for duty!

Yeah, forgot about that and all :shobon:

This is a cute little buggy, should be great for planetary exploration

# ? Aug 19, 2015 12:09

McGiggins: Apr 4, 2014; by R. Guyovich; Lipstick Apathy

Man, all the available screens for planets look so good.

I can't wait to build a buggy and go axe murder someone in their bunker.

# ? Aug 19, 2015 14:01

rossmum: Dec 2, 2008; Cummander ross, reporting for duty!

Progress! Have a copy/paste, because I'm lazy as gently caress.

quote:

Fixed airlock doors and added a little motor launch!

The launch has seating space for eight, standing room for perhaps one more, and a crew of two (pilot, navigator). It has a centrally-located cargo container, accessible through a ventral connector and two side ejectors externally and two small interior cargo containers internally. The passenger cabin is pressurised and has access to the cockpit, as well as two small first-aid stations. I've got to do something with the powerplant or the thrusters as the industrial thrusters overload the reactors, but otherwise it functions well. The reactors are powered by the same hydrogen fuel as Bezposhchadniy's new powerplant, making life easier and offering an improvement in power output over regular uranium fission reactors. The launch is unarmed, but carries multiple onboard communications systems and a small radar set.

The launch is designed to sit underslung just ahead of Bezposhchadniy's airlock, and can be locked in place with the three landing gear units that lay flush along its belly. Be sure to turn the inertia dampeners OFF before shutting down - and don't leave the launch running when not in use! Right now, there's no corresponding connector on Bezposhchadniy's underside and the launch can only be accessed by jetpack (being both upside-down on the bottom of the destroyer and slightly raised from the deck), but this may see revision in future, along with some improvements to the launch itself. I also intend to make reinforcements to its landing area to ensure thruster damage is prevented entirely, though if you're gentle, it doesn't have much effect on the existing light armour.

Before jumping or making sudden manoeuvres with the destroyer, ensure that:

1. The launch has its inertia dampeners OFF;
2. The launch is LOCKED to the hull by at least two of its three landing gear legs;
3. The launch is powered OFF, both reactor and battery powerplants.

It may also be advisable to make sure that there are no loose cargo items floating around inside the launch and that its cabin doors are closed. The launch can be powered on externally by using the cabin door's keypad or simply climbing into the cockpit - make sure to gain enough clearance of Bezposhchadniy before turning inertial dampeners on, especially if the destroyer is moving.

Enjoy!

There are more screens on the Workshop page, but here's a quick peek:

# ? Aug 19, 2015 16:33

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

rossmum posted:

Progress! Have a copy/paste, because I'm lazy as gently caress.

There are more screens on the Workshop page, but here's a quick peek:

That's pretty sweet. I'll see your shuttle and raise you an Orbital Defense Platform.

It's a basic defense satellite built around a remote-controlled gravity cannon. With the added bonus of a Hyperdrive, so you can leave it pointing away from your planet to deter visitors, or take it with you to visit other people's cities/stations.

# ? Aug 19, 2015 16:42

rossmum: Dec 2, 2008; Cummander ross, reporting for duty!

If you're not actually using the four slots in the barrel for anything, there are now armour slab mods that would fill the gap and round the barrel profile out nicely.

# ? Aug 19, 2015 17:04

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

rossmum posted:

If you're not actually using the four slots in the barrel for anything, there are now armour slab mods that would fill the gap and round the barrel profile out nicely.

I'm aware of them, I just like the look.

# ? Aug 19, 2015 17:05

TescoBag: Dec 2, 2009; Oh god, not again.

Are there any mods for better batteries? The latest patch seemed to have nerfed them kinda hard.

# ? Aug 19, 2015 23:34

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

Basetagon Mk 2 is about as finished as it's going to get for the moment.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 04:56

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Rhjamiz posted:

Basetagon Mk 2 is about as finished as it's going to get for the moment.

Smooth the pyramid with angular blocks, remove the windows... AND ACCELERATE THE TITAN ENGINES TO RAMMING SPEED! :black101:

Seriously though, it's a very nice ship.

edit: So, uh, remember that discussion about Von Neumann machines a while back?

Meet the Construction Limpet.

It's a large-scale remote-controlled construction drone that can build and dismantle entire ships, with a fair number of Assemblers to break down components to raw ores and rebuild whatever it lacks.

It also has a neat trick;

Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Aug 20, 2015

# ? Aug 20, 2015 08:37

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

rossmum posted:

You'd want it to be able to turn in a hurry, though, in case anything gets beside you - compared to an easy roll.

Ships turn equally well on all axes so far as I know? If we could use off-centre thrust then you could stick thrusters at either end and blast them to flip it quickly.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 14:49

Space Kablooey: May 6, 2009

Rhjamiz posted:

Basetagon Mk 2 is about as finished as it's going to get for the moment.

It looks like a robot dude wearing one of those Asian straw hats.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:01

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Smooth the pyramid with angular blocks, remove the windows... AND ACCELERATE THE TITAN ENGINES TO RAMMING SPEED!

If only it were possible to build a ship capable of going to RAMMING SPEED and surviving.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 17:05

rossmum: Dec 2, 2008; Cummander ross, reporting for duty!

OwlFancier posted:

Ships turn equally well on all axes so far as I know? If we could use off-centre thrust then you could stick thrusters at either end and blast them to flip it quickly.

Yeah, turning is tied to gyros and is independent of thrusters, which is a shame.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 17:20

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I haven't tried it but do thrusters activated manually through the menu apply offcentre thrust?

If so I kind of want to build a sweet flip booster for my spaceships.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 17:52

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

OwlFancier posted:

I haven't tried it but do thrusters activated manually through the menu apply offcentre thrust?

If so I kind of want to build a sweet flip booster for my spaceships.

Sadly no, they just generate general thrust.

The Limpet builds the white projector stud from its own projectors, releases it, then starts building the stud's projection (manually, via remote control). There's no control of the stud, the thrusters on it are just to keep it stationary while the Limpet does all the work.

edit: Patch Time! It's another bugfixing run.

quote:

Summary
We are currently entering a temporary feature freeze / bug fixing period in which we will focus mainly on fixing bugs and finishing existing features. The weekly updates will continue, but they�ll be focused on stabilization rather than on new features. The stabilization period will allow us to fix issues that have existed in the game for some time or appeared after recent features were implemented and improve the overall gameplay. More detailed info can be found on Marek�s latest blog post: http://blog.marekrosa.org/2015/08/stabilization-period-for-medieval_18.html
The community�s support has been very helpful so far in identifying various issues and suggesting improvements. We thank you for this! Thus, we encourage all of you to use our bug report forums and help us find and solve issues that exist in the game (please remember to read the bug-report guide before you start posting).
Keen-forum: http://forum.keenswh.com/forums/bug-reports.326950/
Steam-forum: http://steamcommunity.com/app/244850/discussions/1/
Additionally, we have boosted battery outputs and capacity to better match increased thruster requirements. We would also like to thank all the players who have been posting their feedback about balancing and tutorials. If any of you are interested in helping us, you can do so here: http://forum.keenswh.com/forums/feedback.423142/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut2vpQ76L5w

Fixes
- fixed crash when aborting jump on DS
- fixed cannot terminate running game on Win 10
- fixed character shaking when exiting cockpit
- fixed turret not targeting character
- fixed sound block playing two sounds at once
- fixed scrolling in sound block
- fixed character spawns twice
- fixed double sound when placing blocks
- fixed not able to switch tabs when editing inventory
- fixed tutorial 8 and tutorial 9 could not be finished

Balancing
- increased power output and input of batteries
- increased capacity of batteries

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:33

goatsestretchgoals: Jun 4, 2011

TescoBag posted:

Are there any mods for better batteries? The latest patch seemed to have nerfed them kinda hard.

quote:

Balancing
- increased power output and input of batteries
- increased capacity of batteries

Ask and ye shall receive.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:39

GotLag: Jul 17, 2005; 食べちゃダメだよ

OwlFancier posted:

I haven't tried it but do thrusters activated manually through the menu apply offcentre thrust?

If so I kind of want to build a sweet flip booster for my spaceships.

Thrusters attached by rotors/connectors/landing gear will apply off-centre force.

# ? Aug 21, 2015 01:14

Mercutio Martino: Feb 13, 2015; Knight of the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand

bitcoin bastard posted:

Something like this sounds feasible, if you know where each of your turrets are in relation to the laser antenna, and you can get range out of the laser antenna somehow (its been a while since I've played), you can do some math to converge the turrets. One possible problem is that the rotors will only rotate to full degrees, so you might not be able to converge accurately a long way out.

E: Oh I'm speaking purely about programmable blocks, might be able to do something more clever with an actual mod.

The user Alysius has a very nice selection of guidance systems I'm trying to adapt into ship systems. It has not only the laser designation system, but a number of other GPS and sensor varieties, and sample turrets that can fire ahead of moving targets in the kilometer ranges, not meters. I can't for the life of me figure out the missile component designation tags, but if I can't rename blocks to work with a program I don't know why I'm loving with this.

Another handy tool is the Multiple Turret Control System. This script overwrites the rotor control to mirror a remote controlled designator turret. Not really what you asked for persay, but this is immensely useful for broadside cannon system. Again, they mirror the angles, but do not converge.

# ? Aug 21, 2015 11:59

deadly_pudding: May 13, 2009; who the fuck is scraeming
"LOG OFF" at my house.
show yourself, coward.
i will never log off

Did yesterday's patch break the game for anybody else? I had like 3 crashes to desktop yesterday before I gave up and played a different game.

# ? Aug 21, 2015 12:33

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Yuuup its crashtastic. Apparently there's a hotfix coming sometime today though.

# ? Aug 21, 2015 12:36

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Hotfix dropped. You can all resume your addictions now.

quote:

EDIT 08/21/2015:
Update 01.096.013
- fixed crash when grinding blocks on DS
- fixed crash when reloading the game
- fixed crash with sound not playing
- fixed crash with remote control

# ? Aug 21, 2015 16:36

Amechwarrior: Jan 29, 2007

So I got sucked in to this game about 2 months ago from a friend who runs a DS. I've got the basics down, but there is still one thing I'm researching - conveyor flow mechanics. I haven't seen it listed anywhere but is conveyor flow logic something you have to plan for your bases? Is there any kind of post or tutorial that breaks down where items will go when they're automatically pushed out in to the network? I've seen the dev post on push/pull but is there a resource on exactly how a container is chosen for a push request? I've done my own testing and more or less figured it out, but I want to know if someone else has already done this and maybe has more insight in to how it works. For example, conveyor blocks will flow top/bottom/front/back/left/right given each end has a valid container and the same number of "hops" from the conveyor. I haven't seen this info anywhere online and had to make a testing rig to figure it out. I want to be able to have my station put things where they need to go without using scripts and I'm almost done figuring it out. The wikis are either out of date, wrong or silent about this.

Also, I've got a modular small work ship and yet-another-mining-support-ship I could polish off, fluff out and post here if anyone wants to see them.

The Jack - Modular small ship (drilling, salvage/construction, debris control and general cargo truck)

M.A.St. - Mobile Armed Station (Mining support with turrets for meteor protection)

# ? Aug 22, 2015 06:38

Ultimate Shrek Fan: May 2, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

Man every time I try to start a new asteroids survival it always loads into an easy start survival.

# ? Aug 22, 2015 14:43

TescoBag: Dec 2, 2009; Oh god, not again.

Ultimate Shrek Fan posted:

Man every time I try to start a new asteroids survival it always loads into an easy start survival.

I've had this quite a few times

# ? Aug 22, 2015 15:48

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Have your own self-replicating Construction Limpet. It's also now jump-capable so you can bring it out to whatever you just blew to hell and/or stole. :v:

One Limpet will give you an empire :black101:

Amechwarrior posted:

So I got sucked in to this game about 2 months ago from a friend who runs a DS. I've got the basics down, but there is still one thing I'm researching - conveyor flow mechanics. I haven't seen it listed anywhere but is conveyor flow logic something you have to plan for your bases? Is there any kind of post or tutorial that breaks down where items will go when they're automatically pushed out in to the network? I've seen the dev post on push/pull but is there a resource on exactly how a container is chosen for a push request? I've done my own testing and more or less figured it out, but I want to know if someone else has already done this and maybe has more insight in to how it works. For example, conveyor blocks will flow top/bottom/front/back/left/right given each end has a valid container and the same number of "hops" from the conveyor. I haven't seen this info anywhere online and had to make a testing rig to figure it out. I want to be able to have my station put things where they need to go without using scripts and I'm almost done figuring it out. The wikis are either out of date, wrong or silent about this.

Also, I've got a modular small work ship and yet-another-mining-support-ship I could polish off, fluff out and post here if anyone wants to see them.

The Jack - Modular small ship (drilling, salvage/construction, debris control and general cargo truck)

M.A.St. - Mobile Armed Station (Mining support with turrets for meteor protection)

Have you tried using a Conveyor Sorter block to force what gets stored where?

# ? Aug 22, 2015 17:33

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Have you tried using a Conveyor Sorter block to force what gets stored where?

The idea of actually sorting things is alien to me; I just let it all accumulate magically as the Conveyor wills it to be.

Edit: On an unrelated note, I am currently experimenting with geometric shapes and attempting to get ships to slot into other ships. I have since discovered that the Merge Block is loving dangerous as hell, and pistons don't seem to like it when used with one. Nor do they want to move if one is currently attached to something.

Rhjamiz fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Aug 22, 2015

# ? Aug 22, 2015 17:47

Amechwarrior: Jan 29, 2007

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Have you tried using a Conveyor Sorter block to force what gets stored where?

Yes, I already had 3 sets of containers each with an in and out sorter for ore, materials and components each. These were not set to suck all, as they made infinite loops when I tried. I found that my refineries, assemblers and docking station (connector with a suck all sorter) were pushing items everywhere but the 3 containers. I checked the official wiki and wikia about flow mechanics and found out of date info that wasn't working in the current game. Turns out when a device sends a push request it finds the closest valid destination, then by conveyor direction if 2 destinations are equally far away from the source. I'm still testing each block to find out what counts as a hop and what doesn't but it looks like it works like this:

Large block flow mechanics:
1 functional block(refinery, assembler, connector, med bay, etc) or conveyor block = 1 hop

Conveyor tubes = 0 hops, invisible to the push logic.

For example, set a sorter to collect and push all ore. Have on its output side, a conveyor block with one tube and container on one port and a sorter with all ore, no collect all and a container on the other port. The unfiltered container is 2 hops from the source (conveyor+container) vs 3 (conveyor+sorter+container) and will always get the ore you send through the network. This was my problem.

Sorter (active push: ore)
V
Conveyor > Conveyor Tube > Small Cargo
V
Sorter (whitelist ore, passive)
V
Small Cargo

Now if you replaced the conveyor tube in the unfiltered lane with another conveyor block, both containers will be 3 hops from the source. Then, which container gets the ore will depend on the facing of the first conveyor after the source. If the conveyor is "upright and forward" (the words on the sides are right-side up and the top words are readable/facing you) the port chosen will go in order:

Top>Bottom>Front>Back>Left>Right

The second conveyors orientation wont matter unless you then added more containers to it and that lane is selected by the first conveyor. Then, if you added more containers to the second conveyor, it will go through the same selection process.

I'm still working on all of the edge cases. With just the fundamentals, I've modified my tube layout and conveyor orientation so my main container row is the "closest" to everything and thus things go where I want them to without having to worry about random toolboxes in my hangar bay getting filled with ingots. I just had my assemblers built too close to my refineries and they choose to fill the assemblers with ingots when they push. I found you can artificially add distance by just replacing tubes with conveyors, though this takes more resources. Learning this has made my SE game flow much faster, as I don't need to monitor where poo poo ends up or find out my light scout's connector block has been filled with tons of plate and it's slowing me down.

Has anyone else seen this posted anywhere? I was trying to find out if someone has already done the work, as this is the kind of thing I would expect to find on the wiki. I haven't even started on small block flow mechanics, but I will just assume it's the same.

# ? Aug 22, 2015 23:57

Space Kablooey: May 6, 2009

I still can't understand what exactly you are trying to do.

# ? Aug 23, 2015 00:13

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Yeah, I'm still not seeing what the end goal of that is supposed to be.

# ? Aug 23, 2015 04:16

Amechwarrior: Jan 29, 2007

End goal was to have the assemblers, refineries and other things automatically put their pushed items into the right filtered containers without resorting to scripting. Turned out my filtered containers were too many hops away from the blocks pushing the items. I'm just surprised this kind of thing wasn't well documented given how much time it wastes having factory blocks pushing items every which way.

# ? Aug 23, 2015 04:48

Space Kablooey: May 6, 2009

Oh. That.

So, I have a setup that does that, and I really didn't have to worry about hops and poo poo like that. I think you are overcomplicating somewhere.

My setup was something like this:

code:

Input --> Refinery ores pusher -> refineries -> Refinery ingots pusher ---> Assemblers -> Components pusher -> Output
       |                                                               |
       -> Furnace ores pusher  -> furnaces -> Furnace ingots pusher ---

I really didn't want to put another set of pushers after the refineries or the arc furnaces, but the refineries would pull ores from the arc furnaces' inventories.

Also, add containers as buffers liberally. I have a small one before the ore split, another small one before the refineries, another small before the furnaces and one large container before the assemblers.

Space Kablooey fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Aug 23, 2015

# ? Aug 23, 2015 06:01

GotLag: Jul 17, 2005; 食べちゃダメだよ

I just use Automated Inventory Sorting and have no troubles whatsoever.

# ? Aug 23, 2015 07:05

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# ? May 31, 2024 09:47

Space Kablooey: May 6, 2009

That's the scrubbiest way, though. :colbert:

# ? Aug 23, 2015 07:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Space and Medieval Engineers: The planets have more bugs than the games

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