Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

drrockso20 posted:

if we're talking about Build Engine games getting Modern reboots/sequels, I'd rather see something new for Redneck Rampage than Duke(even if Duke is the better game), especially since RR's cartoony aesthetic could look amazing rendered in a modern engine(come to think of it, who even owns the RR franchise these days?)

No, forget RR. It was a bad game, anyway.

We need a proper pulpy horror remake of Blood.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 12:25

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# ? May 15, 2024 13:02

Zedsdeadbaby: Jun 14, 2008; You have been called out, in the ways of old.

Duke is a product of his time though. Even Master Chief is starting to feel like a misplaced relic.
Not that FPS in general have substantial characters anyway, but you can really match a lot of them to their time periods.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 12:34

Mak0rz: Aug 2, 2008; 😎🐗🚬

Woolie Wool posted:

mapjam2 is good and architecturally unique. Play it. You may want to skip Cocerello's map.

Unfortunately mapjam 1 has a really ugly texture theme:

This is it. This is peak brown.

The Kins posted:

You should! Quake Injector is great, and there's some utterly crazy stuff out there.

Are there any Early FPS Thread Recommended Packs^TM besides mapjam2?

# ? Aug 20, 2015 13:59

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

Beyond Belief and IKSPQ are classics that everyone should play in the same vein as Requiem and Memento Mori for Doom. In fact they were made by Matthias Worch and Iikka Keranen, respectively, both of whom worked on Requiem.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 14:23

esselfortium: Jul 19, 2006; Cumulonimbus Antagonistic Posting

Segmentation Fault posted:

I'd love a reboot of Duke that makes him out to be more of a Johnny Bravo type where his machismo and womanizing backfires instead of having it played straight. Terminus made a point that Duke is actually a giant dork if you think about it and I'd love to see that get explored.

A hero who's so vain that he collects his own memorabilia and only dies from having a terminally damaged ego is hilarious in and of itself and I'd like to see Gearbox use that for laughs instead of endless pop culture references. Now that Anthony Burch is out of the picture that might actually happen.

That would be great. Duke's character has so much entertainment potential when his inherent absurdity is played up for comedy.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 14:59

Segmentation Fault: Jun 7, 2012

Woolie Wool posted:

Beyond Belief and IKSPQ are classics that everyone should play in the same vein as Requiem and Memento Mori for Doom. In fact they were made by Matthias Worch and Iikka Keranen, respectively, both of whom worked on Requiem.

ARWOP and Honey are good too.

esselfortium posted:

That would be great. Duke's character has so much entertainment potential when his inherent absurdity is played up for comedy.

Definitely. Duke's like the platonic ideal of the frat boy and that kind of thing should be treated with the flippancy such a title deserves, and definitely would be even in a context where frat boys are portrayed 100% positively. Gearbox is just bad at writing.

Segmentation Fault fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Aug 20, 2015

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:04

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

The Duke Nukem sidescrollers are great.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:08

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

Segmentation Fault posted:

ARWOP and Honey are good too.

Maybe it only looks good in GL because Honey-themed maps from map jam1 (see my screenshot) are astonishingly ugly in Super8. On the other hand, Honey is supposed to be a sewer theme and that screenshot certainly looks gross and stinky! :v:

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:18

Diabetes Forecast: Aug 13, 2008; Droopy Only

KozmoNaut posted:

No, forget RR. It was a bad game, anyway.

We need a proper pulpy horror remake of Blood.

I wish people would stop acting like Blood is the end-all. yeah RR may not be the best thing but it was still quite fun. the sequel was also pretty drat good in general.

E: it also has a fuckload better chance of actually getting a sequel than Blood ever will, considering the two sides who MIGHT own it basically refuse to put effort into finding out who actually owns the rights, much less want anyone to buy it.

Diabetes Forecast fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Aug 20, 2015

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:20

Segmentation Fault: Jun 7, 2012

Woolie Wool posted:

Maybe it only looks good in GL because Honey-themed maps from map jam1 (see my screenshot) are astonishingly ugly in Super8. On the other hand, Honey is supposed to be a sewer theme and that screenshot certainly looks gross and stinky!

I liked it in quakespasm. The visuals you might not like but the actual map design is great.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:22

Minidust: Nov 4, 2009; Keep bustin'

Curious, do you guys play classic Doom with a crosshair? It just feels really weird with the way the y-axis aiming works. But, it still kinda helps. I might stick to that "corner" crosshair in GZDoom since it seems less misleading than the others, if that makes sense.

I'm trying to remember how I did it in my playthrough a few years ago. I might have just had mouselook on so it felt more natural.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:35

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

Colon Semicolon posted:

I wish people would stop acting like Blood is the end-all. yeah RR may not be the best thing but it was still quite fun. the sequel was also pretty drat good in general.

E: it also has a fuckload better chance of actually getting a sequel than Blood ever will, considering the two sides who MIGHT own it basically refuse to put effort into finding out who actually owns the rights, much less want anyone to buy it.

Somebody just make a horror-comedy shooter under another name. Caleb is barely a character, a replacement could easily be written without much effort. The setting is just horror pastiches, so that's easy enough.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:39

RyokoTK: Feb 12, 2012; I am cool.

I play classic Doom with a crosshair and free look and no auto aim.

I used to be more of a purist but lately I've found that I just don't care that much and I find modernized controls to be more enjoyable for me.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:39

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

Colon Semicolon posted:

I wish people would stop acting like Blood is the end-all. yeah RR may not be the best thing but it was still quite fun. the sequel was also pretty drat good in general.

E: it also has a fuckload better chance of actually getting a sequel than Blood ever will, considering the two sides who MIGHT own it basically refuse to put effort into finding out who actually owns the rights, much less want anyone to buy it.

But Blood is the end-all-be-all of 2.5D FPS games, it was the last truly great 2.5D FPS before everything went fully 3D.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 15:57

Diabetes Forecast: Aug 13, 2008; Droopy Only

Casimir Radon posted:

Somebody just make a horror-comedy shooter under another name. Caleb is barely a character, a replacement could easily be written without much effort. The setting is just horror pastiches, so that's easy enough.

literally no one will develop a game like that anymore and even if they did, it'd be high risk and hard to sell because it's not the Blood name.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 16:14

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

I don't like Blood that much but it doesn't deserve to be compared to Redneck Rampage.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 16:16

Geight: Aug 7, 2010; Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!

This is the only interesting interpretation of Duke Nukem that would be worthy making another Duke game about. Set it after he's lost his presidential election bid because he knows literally nothing about being the president, just sitting in an apartment watching old pulp movies like the washed-up has-been that Duke Nukem truly is, and boom aliens attack. Time for Duke to be relevant again!

# ? Aug 20, 2015 16:25

Diabetes Forecast: Aug 13, 2008; Droopy Only

Geight posted:

This is the only interesting interpretation of Duke Nukem that would be worthy making another Duke game about. Set it after he's lost his presidential election bid because he knows literally nothing about being the president, just sitting in an apartment watching old pulp movies like the washed-up has-been that Duke Nukem truly is, and boom aliens attack. Time for Duke to be relevant again!

Duke never actually ran for president it was just a Proton robot.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 16:27

PaletteSwappedNinja: Jun 3, 2008; One Nation, Under God.

Segmentation Fault posted:

Definitely. Duke's like the platonic ideal of the frat boy and that kind of thing should be treated with the flippancy such a title deserves, and definitely would be even in a context where frat boys are portrayed 100% positively. Gearbox is just bad at writing.

Just to be clear, Gearbox didn't write Forever but they clearly didn't have an issue with the pre-existing dialogue, seeing as they paid to rerecord all the VA but didn't actually change anything.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 16:29

Geight: Aug 7, 2010; Oh, All-Knowing One, behold me!

Colon Semicolon posted:

Duke never actually ran for president it was just a Proton robot.

That's boring/dumb as heck, so I will choose to ignore it. Hell I played that goofy DNF DLC and I don't even remember that plot point! I mostly remember getting to the final boss, not understanding how to defeat it, and finding out that nobody on the internet cared enough about DNF DLC to have written a walkthrough at the time.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 16:29

Shadow Hog: Feb 23, 2014; Avatar by Jon Davies

Minidust posted:

Curious, do you guys play classic Doom with a crosshair? It just feels really weird with the way the y-axis aiming works. But, it still kinda helps. I might stick to that "corner" crosshair in GZDoom since it seems less misleading than the others, if that makes sense.

I'm trying to remember how I did it in my playthrough a few years ago. I might have just had mouselook on so it felt more natural.

Yup. I typically don't have autoaim on, either, and definitely have freelook on, so all told it plays more like Quake than Doom. It's technically not purist but it feels better that way, frankly.

Woolie Wool posted:

Pretty sure this wasn't supposed to happen:

Z axis fighting where geometry appears and disappears depending on where you stand in this scene.

Or this:

Fell through a hole in the floor into an HOM pit.

This map seems kind of under-tested in general. Not far from that first screenshot, around where an Ogre starts to pelt you with grenades from a bridge above, I noticed that with a bit of clever jumping I could actually reach and start climbing the rocks on the outer wall. It becomes rather apparent you were never expected to be able to reach there, as some of them aren't solid at all (although I don't recall falling into any illusiopits, at least). Almost made it up to a key, but it was just out-of-reach - but then I noticed that I could reach the bridge the Ogre (who I'd tied up into an infight with a Death Knight so neither would bother me) was on, so I headed over there. Got another Ogre and a few Knights on my tail, started to get cornered, and then wound up inside a wall with the Ogre and Knights constantly running toward me but never really attacking me, as if they couldn't see me. I just quit there; it was getting late anyway.

Woolie Wool posted:

How am I supposed to beat Adib's map Signati? There just seems to be a dead end at the green armor platform.

Is that the leftmost doorway in the Start map? I got stuck there too. Worse than being a dead-end, it's a dead-end you can't even backtrack from if you have the audacity to jump down after the armor - the ledge you jumped down from is ever so slightly too high to jump back up atop, and there's nothing around the armor you can interact with except a lava pit to suicide in. I wonder if it wasn't tested on Normal, and that something that's supposed to trigger something in that room on another difficulty wasn't flagged to show up on that one?

As for my own questions - the library stage in between those two on the Start map was really good, but I can't figure out most of the secrets to save my life. I've found three of four so far, but can only reach one of them legitimately.

The legitimate one is after the swim where you get the Grenade Launcher - one of the platforms in the corners of the room that pool lets out into has a book slightly jutting out of the bookshelf; nudging it opens a passageway by the exit from the pool with a Yellow Armor in it.

The first of the two I can't figure out is on the other corner of the aforementioned pool room. Some bricks are jutting out of the wall, letting you jump up (although you'll need to jump onto the lantern to get the appropriate height for at least one set of the bricks) to a small recess. Said recess has a passageway that should lead to a Megahealth (and a surprise Ogre attack), but it doesn't open up to actually let you in.

The other of those two is on the path where you drop down to an arena, with some airflow to break your fall before you land. Just before that pit you have to drop into, there's another secret passageway behind an empty bookshelf, opposite the red arrow indicating you need to fall in said pit. This passageway leads to a teleporter that takes you to a watery tunnel with a Lightning Gun and another teleporter back out. So, naturally, I can't get the empty bookshelf to move out of the way and let me into the passage.

I'm not even sure where the fourth secret is at all.

Also, I noticed the Nightmare portal of the Start map is beneath the pentagram on the ground immediately after you choose a difficulty, but I don't know how to open it. (Not that I tend to play Nightmare, I just like figuring out where map makers hide the option in their difficulty selection maps; since id hid theirs, it's apparently a tradition for everybody else to hide theirs as well.)

# ? Aug 20, 2015 17:26

Minidust: Nov 4, 2009; Keep bustin'

RyokoTK posted:

I play classic Doom with a crosshair and free look and no auto aim.

I used to be more of a purist but lately I've found that I just don't care that much and I find modernized controls to be more enjoyable for me.

Shadow Hog posted:

Yup. I typically don't have autoaim on, either, and definitely have freelook on, so all told it plays more like Quake than Doom. It's technically not purist but it feels better that way, frankly.

Funny, I was thinking that the original engine had no true y-axis, and thus "auto-aim" was kind of a misnomer. I failed to consider all the non-hitscan weapons though! I could see a rocket launcher feeling weird enough to make me turn mouselook back on.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 17:45

koren: Sep 7, 2003

Woolie Wool posted:

How am I supposed to beat Adib's map Signati? There just seems to be a dead end at the green armor platform.

Shadow Hog posted:

Is that the leftmost doorway in the Start map? I got stuck there too. Worse than being a dead-end, it's a dead-end you can't even backtrack from if you have the audacity to jump down after the armor - the ledge you jumped down from is ever so slightly too high to jump back up atop, and there's nothing around the armor you can interact with except a lava pit to suicide in. I wonder if it wasn't tested on Normal, and that something that's supposed to trigger something in that room on another difficulty wasn't flagged to show up on that one?

You shoot the big dangling rock directly above the floor switch and it falls to make a platform. This is the central gimmick of the map.

Minidust posted:

Curious, do you guys play classic Doom with a crosshair? It just feels really weird with the way the y-axis aiming works. But, it still kinda helps. I might stick to that "corner" crosshair in GZDoom since it seems less misleading than the others, if that makes sense.

No, because I don't use vertical mouse look. I guess it could be useful in helping newer players find the centre of the screen. Some of the weapon sprites are improperly offset so you can't use them as a guide.

koren fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Aug 20, 2015

# ? Aug 20, 2015 17:48

Douk Douk: Mar 17, 2009; Take your pervert war elsewhere.

A re-imagining of Blood in the vein of something like a more nonlinear CoJ: Gunslinger would be loving incredible. The market might not be big as a horror game, since everyone now expects screamers and silent hill ripoffs everywhere, but if it's marketed as an FPS game like the new Shadow Warrior I don't see how it could not sell well. However, nothing short of a miracle would manage to breathe life back into the actual Blood franchise. Best thing to do is just make a nearly-identical, but still different enough to avoid lawsuit, world. Which, again, shouldn't be too hard at all. Almost every enemy is a cliche from campy horror movies, and even the cultists can be reused as long as you give them a different babble-tongue language to speak and a different dark god to worship.

Vapour is a newer game that kind of does this. It's very clearly inspired by Blood and Hexen. I tried playing it but it's incredibly poorly optimized and I couldn't get past the first few minutes because the mouse sensitivity is incredibly abysmal and it lagged even on lower settings for me.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:03

Shadow Hog: Feb 23, 2014; Avatar by Jon Davies

Korendian Leader posted:

You shoot the big dangling rock directly above the floor switch and it falls to make a platform. This is the central gimmick of the map.

Funny. I recall shooting that rock and nothing happening.

They do a pretty bad job of drawing attention to it, alas.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:17

JLaw: Feb 10, 2008; - harmless -

Woolie Wool posted:

Maybe it only looks good in GL because Honey-themed maps from map jam1 (see my screenshot) are astonishingly ugly in Super8. On the other hand, Honey is supposed to be a sewer theme and that screenshot certainly looks gross and stinky!

Segmentation Fault posted:

I liked it in quakespasm. The visuals you might not like but the actual map design is great.

Yeah I think for lots of third-party maps it's a crapshoot whether or not their visuals will turn out OK when using something like Super 8 or a "hi res" texture pack, since they're designed to be viewed with vanilla Quake. Of course it's also just a taste thing... personally I happen to be a huge fan of the watery-cave-and-big-mossy-brick-ruins kinds of Quake maps (e.g. e1m3 The Necropolis from the original campaign).

Mak0rz posted:

Are there any Early FPS Thread Recommended Packs^TM besides mapjam2?

It's not exactly the same thing as being EFPSTRP ^TM but my history in this thread has various recommendations.

It's also hard to go wrong (granted, not impossible) if you just sort Quaddicted's list by most-recent or by highest-rated.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:23

Heavy Metal: Sep 1, 2014; America's $1 Funnyman

Colon Semicolon posted:

Duke never actually ran for president it was just a Proton robot.

Or the running for president scene takes place after the DLC in continuity, and it is Duke. If what you're saying was the intended plot wouldn't it be mentioned in the DLC? Unless I missed that.

Geight posted:

This is the only interesting interpretation of Duke Nukem that would be worthy making another Duke game about. Set it after he's lost his presidential election bid because he knows literally nothing about being the president, just sitting in an apartment watching old pulp movies like the washed-up has-been that Duke Nukem truly is, and boom aliens attack. Time for Duke to be relevant again!

Those ideas and the Johnny Bravo one to me would make Duke stand out much less. Even if it made him more relatable and whatnot, that's not ballsy enough. It might go down smoother for some if Duke for example is a failed lothario, but him being the most powerful babe magnet in history is bolder. Duke can be the butt of some jokes, naturally, but that's not where I'd take the character overall.

Also, what you're talking about is how they're doing Ash vs The Evil Dead, which looks terrific too. They're doing lots of jokes at Ash's expense, him having dentures etc, so I can dig that style. But that style of self-depricating humor I think works better for Ash than Duke. A character like Duke exactly as is could be used in all sorts of entertaining ways by any good creative writer.

Plus, you're pretty much describing Travis Touchdown. Duke is clearly a very different sunglasses wearing asskicker.

Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Aug 20, 2015

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:37

elf help book: Aug 5, 2004; Though the battle might be endless, I will never give up

The Duke Nukem Lore

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:40

Heavy Metal: Sep 1, 2014; America's $1 Funnyman

elf help book posted:

The Duke Nukem Lore

I returned FF XIII shortly after I played some of it, shake it baby. It's no 90s FF, you wanna dance.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:42

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

Colon Semicolon posted:

literally no one will develop a game like that anymore and even if they did, it'd be high risk and hard to sell because it's not the Blood name.

An indie studio could do it using the Build engine or Id Tech 1/2/3 or Unreal Engine 1. That's what the indie market is for--making stuff that somebody wants whether or not its focus group approved.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:50

Heavy Metal: Sep 1, 2014; America's $1 Funnyman

Woolie Wool posted:

An indie studio could do it using the Build engine or Id Tech 1/2/3 or Unreal Engine 1. That's what the indie market is for--making stuff that somebody wants whether or not its focus group approved.

That's true, and I wish we'd see more stuff like that. I got love for the NES, but it feels like we've seen eighty million sidescrollers and whatnot, but not very many indie games in this genre. Granted there are a few.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:52

elf help book: Aug 5, 2004; Though the battle might be endless, I will never give up

Heavy Metal posted:

I returned FF XIII shortly after I played some of it, shake it baby. It's no 90s FF, you wanna dance.

. . .

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:55

Shadow Hog: Feb 23, 2014; Avatar by Jon Davies

You'd think there'd be more indie games focusing on SNES/Genesis games by now.

Like, the NES was nice, but the generation afterward was much better, c'mon.

As far as retro-ish FPS titles go, though, at least we're getting that Bombshell Build Engine game?

# ? Aug 20, 2015 18:55

Heavy Metal: Sep 1, 2014; America's $1 Funnyman

elf help book posted:

. . .

You roast one cartoon and you are stunned to silence when another cartoon is roasted.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 19:00

Klaus88: Jan 23, 2011; Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment

Welp, it seems that the HL one community follows the gambory/nexus model of "throw a massive poo poo fit over the smallest thing" rather then the relativeily chill model of sharing poo poo freely among themselves like the doom community. :negative:

# ? Aug 20, 2015 19:22

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Klaus88 posted:

Welp, it seems that the HL one community follows the gambory/nexus model of "throw a massive poo poo fit over the smallest thing" rather then the relativeily chill model of sharing poo poo freely among themselves like the doom community.

Well, go in there, yell at them, and teach them a lesson! :argh:

# ? Aug 20, 2015 19:24

TerminusEst13: Mar 1, 2013

Heavy Metal posted:

You roast one cartoon and you are stunned to silence when another cartoon is roasted.

But chinese cartoons are better than your dumb western cartoons.

I would know, working on a superior chinese cartoon. :smuggo:

# ? Aug 20, 2015 19:44

Douk Douk: Mar 17, 2009; Take your pervert war elsewhere.

Shadow Hog posted:

You'd think there'd be more indie games focusing on SNES/Genesis games by now.

Like, the NES was nice, but the generation afterward was much better, c'mon.

As far as retro-ish FPS titles go, though, at least we're getting that Bombshell Build Engine game?

There are a couple of Genesis-inspired indie games but almost no SNES-inspired ones. I think the main reason why there's more NES is because it's easier to make assets. :shrug:

A much simpler palette, easy sounds and music to make, etc. etc.

I think we might see a resurgence in old-school FPSes. It seems like the general indie trend is becoming that, with GLOOME, Bombshell, and STRAFE getting quite a bit of attention.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 20:04

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Douk Douk posted:

There are a couple of Genesis-inspired indie games but almost no SNES-inspired ones. I think the main reason why there's more NES is because it's easier to make assets. A much simpler palette, easy sounds and music to make, etc. etc.

I think we might see a resurgence in old-school FPSes. It seems like the general indie trend is becoming that, with GLOOME, Bombshell, and STRAFE getting quite a bit of attention.

Not to mention Shadow Warrior, Rise of the Triad, Doom, Wolfenstein, Serious Sam, and possibly others I forgot getting new releases after years of inactivity.

# ? Aug 20, 2015 20:23

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# ? May 15, 2024 13:02

JLaw: Feb 10, 2008; - harmless -

Has Gibhard been mentioned on the thread yet? Kind of like a better-looking (IMO) Strafe?

It has the "procedurally generated" warning flag, but other than some obviously/hopefully-unfinished enemy animations the pictures are nice for my eyeballs. http://www.gibhard.com/

# ? Aug 20, 2015 20:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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