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Diabetic posted:I adore the closed loop of T1, but it is hosed to Hell by T2 etc. So this is how I process it in my head canon. The cliffs notes version is that it's quite a bit more complicated than it seems at first glance, even with T1's "closed loop".
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Aug 15, 2015 02:15
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Parachute posted:I'm on the final episode of TSCC and it's a pretty solid show. Lena Headey was a really good Sarah Connor, and the use of time travel is a lot of fun especially in the aforementioned episode where there is a glitch when they send back a terminator to kill someone in 2005 and it is sent back 90 years earlier and he becomes this man of the people big businessman & rebuilds the building, sealing himself inside for like 80 years. That was a really cool idea, just to see a Terminator in a completely different era than usual. Derek has to be one of my favorite character deaths ever. No buildup, no big moment, it just happens. WarLocke posted:Without killing himself. He says it right there in that scene, he believes that time travellers are orphaned from their timeline (or however exactly he puts it). Since he's no longer tethered to a timeline, he can kill Sarah and not pop out of existence - but killing Sarah still changes the future of her timeline since she'll be dead. It's basically the same logic as the Spock/red matter plot device from Star Trek's reboot, and what seems to be the way to go for reboots nowadays: Pay homage to the old one by keeping it canon, but create a new timeline out of it.
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Aug 15, 2015 10:44
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Watched Genisys last week for the first time, then cause I have too much free time I watched T-1 and T-2 and then Genisys again. The notion that all three movies could be consistent with one another given that 'time travel logic' presented in the films is interesting, the first 20 minutes of Genisys are definitely a lot more interesting if you have T-1 fresh in your memory, the ugly rear end Nike shoes were definitely an amusing callback. I also didn't find Emilia Clarke to be as offensive as many reviewers (and people in the GoT threads) would have led me to believe, she was fine, I think she's charismatic enough to make you like her even when her delivery is sometimes awkward. As for the temporal fuckery and the overall themes; it was always gonna be difficult to explain the existence of the 'original John Connor' without a time loop but I still tend to think that T-1 represents the 'original timeline' or at least, the minimally altered timeline, in that sense T-1 is also the starting point for the various temporal fuckeries, specifically when Reese tells Sarah that 'there is no fate but that we make for ourselves' - he basically gets her to start working on altering the future by providing John with more and more information about future events and creating more temporal alterations with each iteration of the loop, T-1 -> T-2 -> T:G are consistent in the sense that Skynet is always losing the war and its 'birth' keeps getting delayed but also in the sense that it is always born from more advanced technology (with the access to the future tech from the terminators) so it has more advanced terminators at its disposable to send back come 'the final stand'. Of course there's still a lot of bullshit and stuff that can only be handwaved away but it's a marked improvement over T-3 and T:S, I also prefer the narrative dealing with Sarah, Reese and the T-800 as the protagonists then focusing on John like T-3 and T:S did, there's just something not particularly interesting about John, the way T:G presents him as someone who always relied on the information of future events given to him by Sarah is more interesting than the super warrior cold hearted badass he was in T:S. idk, I guess I liked it, nowhere near as good as T-2 obviously but still a decent movie.
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Aug 16, 2015 13:07
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I think if you look at the events shown in T1 as a fixed point rather than a loop, the rest makes more sense. Since you don't see that future but only hear about it, it's your point of reference for everything else. Reese even says he's from "one possible future".
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Aug 17, 2015 07:08
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The timeline stuff makes more sense if you ignore everything after T2. John Connor's father isn't important, it's the fact that he rose up to become a hero that matters. So Kyle Reese being the dad might not be a closed loop situation, just a slight change to history. Then T2 proves that you CAN change the future, and John Connor never has to grow up to be the hero of the resistance, instead helping his mom prevent the war with Skynet altogether. It only gets really complicated once T3 hits and is like "You can change the future, except for the parts that are important, kind of, and it delays them I guess, but it's destiny, except for the parts that aren't."
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Aug 17, 2015 07:47
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Something I really liked about Genisys is that it confirmed my own personal head-canon about how Terminator 1's time travel works. One of the common criticisms I've heard of Terminator 1 (by nerds) is that when the Terminator goes back in time history should be instantly changed and it should be too late to late to then send Kyle back to protect Sarah. People either say that's a plot hole, or they say that it's proof that history was supposed to be an unchangeable loop in T1 and it's a foregone conclusion that Kyle will be succeed in protecting Sarah. I've always assumed that when time travel is involved there are two "presents", one in 1984 and on in 2029. The ticks at one-second-per-second in both. Since it takes about a day for Arnold to find Sarah and point a gun at her, that means that in 2029 the Resistance have a day until history gets altered. The Resistance are still able to send Kyle back because at that point all that Arnold has done is kill a few punks. In Terminator Genisys they actually show that this is how it works - we see Arnold go back in time and start doing stuff in 1984, and then it cuts back to 2029 and shows them preparing to send Kyle back. So it's a "Meanwhile, in the past" and "Meanwhile, in the future" situation.
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Aug 17, 2015 12:10
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Before Terminator 3 came out, as a kid I always thought that Terminator 1 happened, but because the company got ahold of Terminator parts, Skynet was sped up and made even more advanced, allowing it to create T-1000s. That's obviously not the case now but as a kid that's how I made sense of it.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:22
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Immortan posted:So Arnold is Satan? He comes up from the ground (kneeling from a pit and stands up) in contrast to Kyle falling from the sky, so, yes.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:27
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If you have a copy of Terminator 3 with Arnold's commentary, it's worth it bigtime. I was cracking up every time he got going.
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Aug 18, 2015 01:00
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your evil twin posted:Something I really liked about Genisys is that it confirmed my own personal head-canon about how Terminator 1's time travel works. This seems to be how the time travel in the 12 Monkeys series works too, or at least it's edited that way.
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Aug 18, 2015 02:30
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Electromax posted:If you have a copy of Terminator 3 with Arnold's commentary, it's worth it bigtime. I was cracking up every time he got going.
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Aug 18, 2015 04:09
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Xenomrph posted:Every Arnold commentary is worth listening to. I know he did one for Conan, and I think he did one for Total Recall. I would pay good money to hear Arnold do commentaries for films he isn't in.
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Aug 18, 2015 05:46
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Rhyno posted:I would pay good money to hear Arnold do commentaries for films he isn't in.
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Aug 18, 2015 05:50
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Rhyno posted:I would pay good money to hear Arnold do commentaries for films he isn't in. Does Stay Hungry have one? He's barely in that movie.
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Aug 18, 2015 12:16
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I think I heard that Arnie did two commentaries for Total Recall. He did one originally for DVD release but back then wasn't really familiar with commentaries or how they were meant to work and didn't think it was very good. When it came to blu ray (or a later DVD re-release or something) did a new commentary. Dunno which one has more comedy value, haven't heard either. sticklefifer posted:This seems to be how the time travel in the 12 Monkeys series works too, or at least it's edited that way. Yes, good point! I love the 12 Monkeys TV series. And I think one of the writers was also a writer for the Sarah Connor Chronicles. It's like SCC except with the terminators replaced with even more time travel.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:25
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12 Monkeys (TV) is really drat good, and everyone should check it out imo. Also Looper & Triangle.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:44
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Parachute posted:12 Monkeys (TV) is really drat good, and everyone should check it out imo. Triangle, the Syfy miniseries from ten years ago? I remember time travel was involved somehow, but what was the way it worked?
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Aug 18, 2015 22:50
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Chairman Capone posted:Triangle, the Syfy miniseries from ten years ago? I remember time travel was involved somehow, but what was the way it worked? He probably means the the film staring Melissa George from a couple years ago.
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Aug 18, 2015 22:54
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Parachute posted:12 Monkeys (TV) is really drat good, and everyone should check it out imo. Also I liked Looper until the second half, and then i lost interest when it stopped being about time travel and old Bruce Willis and young Bruce Willis interacting with each other. It's a shame because I liked that director's other collaboration with Jason Gordon Levitt, 'Brick'.
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Aug 19, 2015 01:47
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 I had no idea the sequel was coming so soon nor that it would be an Aliens crossover Xenomrph posted:Is the 12 Monkeys series available for streaming anywhere?
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Aug 19, 2015 03:26
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Xenomrph posted:Is the 12 Monkeys series available for streaming anywhere? 12 Monkeys: You can buy/stream it on Amazon/Google/Vudu for ~$2/episode, but I would think Syfy would offer some crappy streaming of it with ads on their site a la Food Network. In regards to Looper, I loved it because at that point I started realizing it was way more of a movie about paternal bonds and parenting than time travel (Emily Blunt is really fantastic). Also, Bruce Willis gives the best time travel explanation ever in it the mob controls time travel and they are dumb so don't think about it Rhyno posted:He probably means the the film staring Melissa George from a couple years ago. Yep, exactly this.
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Aug 19, 2015 13:00
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Looper was cool because it was a play on Terminator Bruce Willis was the Terminator in it, although it decided to just "change" its time travel rules halfway through the movie, and then changed them again for the conclusion started with causal loops, then said the future could be changed. It didn't kill the movie to any degree, but it was slightly irritating if you were attempting to work out solutions to the situations while watching.
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Aug 19, 2015 14:42
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So I'm curious, was the ending of Salvation really forced to be re-written just so Christian Bale can be Jesus, or did I misread that cyborg terminator marcus was supposed to be the protagonist until they got A Big Name into thing? Because holy poo poo that's the hugest slap in the face I could think of, "yeah, well, you'll mostly protect me and feed me info except for a fight scene where you save me, and then you just give me your life to save me, and everybody's stoked because CHRISTIAN BALE!!!"  The way the scores of pages of this thread I went through in the last few days before I spree'd terminator leading up to soon seeing genisys (idc what you think about that movie, please do not talk about it in any responses to this post thank you, I'm just refreshing myself to the series like I do with books when a new one comes out in a series). Darko posted:Looper was cool because it was a play on Terminator Bruce Willis was the Terminator in it, although it decided to just "change" its time travel rules halfway through the movie, and then changed them again for the conclusion started with causal loops, then said the future could be changed. It didn't kill the movie to any degree, but it was slightly irritating if you were attempting to work out solutions to the situations while watching.  Maybe check out some Joseph Campbell sometime. I could probably string together "Se7en" and Jim Carrey's "23" together with the same chain of logic - I mean the entire premise of the 23 conspiracy is that it fits into everything so it makes at least as much sense as Looper being a Terminator ripoff because time travel edit: the only movie in those I mentioned that's less than five years old (maybe) is Looper, so I'm not spoilering unless that's a thread rule I missed when I read the OP. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Aug 23, 2015 |
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Aug 23, 2015 09:32
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Terminator Genisys makes $27M + in China on just a Friday, fourth largest ever in that country. Projected for around a 75M weekend. http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/08/23/box-office-terminator-genisys-opens-with-massive-26-6m-in-china/ For the haters of this movie: 
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Aug 24, 2015 04:42
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Immortan posted:Terminator Genisys makes $27M + in China on just a Friday, fourth largest ever in that country. Projected for around a 75M weekend. http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/08/23/box-office-terminator-genisys-opens-with-massive-26-6m-in-china/ What the gently caress is wrong with China?
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Aug 24, 2015 05:15
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Rhyno posted:What the gently caress is wrong with China? At this point? NOTHING
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Aug 24, 2015 05:22
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Immortan posted:Terminator Genisys makes $27M + in China on just a Friday, fourth largest ever in that country. Projected for around a 75M weekend. http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/08/23/box-office-terminator-genisys-opens-with-massive-26-6m-in-china/ China loves bad movies about robots.
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Aug 24, 2015 05:51
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Well if nothing else, Genisys' time travel logic made even less sens than all of the movies leading up to it combined.
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Aug 24, 2015 06:10
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coyo7e posted:Uhh wow, you've literally never seen anything which involves time paradoxes or read any books at all, have you? I mean - ever? And you're also a high school english teacher throwing goofy-rear end and extremely-personal symbolism at us and assuming we all view everything the same way you do? Did you quote the wrong person? What in the world are you talking about here?
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Aug 24, 2015 14:32
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That the only thing tying looper and terminator together is not bruce willis.
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Aug 24, 2015 16:20
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coyo7e posted:That the only thing tying looper and terminator together is not bruce willis. Okay, well, uh, first of all "a play on" does not mean, "a ripoff," so I have no idea of what you're complaining about there. The point was that Looper and Terminator both share a plot of "someone from the future comes back in time and attempts to kill Sara(h)'s child to fix the future from their perspective, with someone else with knowledge of this protecting them." You just find out the details of that much later in Looper. However, they diverge on how this information is handled, and Looper, coming later, actually plays on this (in other words, knows viewers have a knowledge of the prior film and uses that to go in a different direction and explore its own themes) to a degree with the identity of the son, the killer, and the protector, and how they all connect. The second part was that Looper's time travel "rules" aren't internally consistent because it starts as time travel creating a parallel timeline (Joe killed his old self when young, doesn't die when he goes back, and it has no shifting effects on him), to singular casual timeline (tracking someone by causing damage to their younger self, which shows up on their older self), and then goes back and forth a couple of times. Since it waffles, it doesn't become a plot you can attempt to predict or "solve," but as I said, that doesn't really matter.
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Aug 24, 2015 16:39
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coyo7e posted:That the only thing tying looper and terminator together is not bruce willis. And the genre, and the time travel, and the whole assassin from the future sent to murder a child who'd grow up to be a meaningful persona in the future, and predestination themes, etc, etc. Nobody is saying that the movies are identical or that looper plagiarizes the terminator franchise, they're saying that there are some interesting parallels and that looper draws some inspiration from terminator, and people seem to have got this without difficulty, perhaps you are being unnecessarily obtuse?
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Aug 24, 2015 16:39
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Immortan posted:Terminator Genisys makes $27M + in China on just a Friday, fourth largest ever in that country. Projected for around a 75M weekend. http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/08/23/box-office-terminator-genisys-opens-with-massive-26-6m-in-china/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7olh2I0dN7w&t=282s
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Aug 24, 2015 18:58
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Immortan posted:Terminator Genisys makes $27M + in China on just a Friday, fourth largest ever in that country. Projected for around a 75M weekend. http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2015/08/23/box-office-terminator-genisys-opens-with-massive-26-6m-in-china/ I didn't realize sales numbers made something good.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:57
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I thought time travel movies were banned in China 
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Aug 25, 2015 00:15
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Time traveling robots are okay though.
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Aug 25, 2015 00:18
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Rhyno posted:What the gently caress is wrong with China? Apparently many Chinese people are worried that robots are increasingly taking away manufacturing jobs from people in their rapidly developing economy. They probably imagine the world of the Terminator movies as their very near future and pay good money to watch job-destroying robots get blown up for a couple hours.
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Aug 25, 2015 01:49
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China > Goons.
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Aug 25, 2015 03:19
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Smoothrich posted:Apparently many Chinese people are worried that robots are increasingly taking away manufacturing jobs from people in their rapidly developing economy. They probably imagine the world of the Terminator movies as their very near future and pay good money to watch job-destroying robots get blown up for a couple hours. Explains why the original Terminator films were popular.
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Aug 25, 2015 04:00
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mobby_6kl posted:I thought time travel movies were banned in China Actually, it was just the writers of Chinese TV shows who were told to stop doing stories about time travel, because there had been a load of them where modern characters went back in time to ancient china and interacted with famous people from history, and the authorities felt that it was disrespectful to those real-life historical people. This got misinterpreted by news websites as "China bans stories about time travel", when in fact it was "China bans Chinese writers from writing any more stories about time travel, at the risk of their shows not getting renewed for another season."
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Aug 25, 2015 04:29
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