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Basically World War I was a huge shock to Europe's intellectual community and while a lot of them went "gently caress the world" and invented Dadaism, a few instead decided "actually, war is awesome and manly!" Those were the Futurists. I mean, they had some other poo poo going on too, they were very big on motion and technology, but they're mostly remembered for being weird young men who wrote manifestos and were uncomfortably close to fascism. e: Woolie Wool put it better.
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Aug 24, 2015 03:57
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Woolie Wool posted:monumental but sparsely decorated buildings Hey now, some of us actually like brutalism.
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Aug 24, 2015 04:04
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Cingulate posted:What's Yud got to do with the Hugos? He's been trying to figure out ways to get HPMOR in the running, including trying to tap his dad's SMOF connections.
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Aug 24, 2015 04:05
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Curvature of Earth posted:Hey now, some of us actually like brutalism. I was more thinking of the Concrete Rome style of Albert Speer, with these phony classical buildings whose sheer scale makes their bland faux-Roman architecture and dopey colonnades look ridiculous.
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Aug 24, 2015 04:09
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Woolie Wool posted:It's not just "the artistic part of fascism", it's fascism as art. It's a violently emotional and histrionic ( I hate to be that guy, but just in case it ever comes up: histrionic and histrionics are etymologically unrelated to hysterical and hysteria. They're both Latin, but histr+ basically means of or relating to an actor or acting. It is the root of history and historian, I guess because history used to involve public recitation. That doesn't matter if somebody imagines or enforces a connection, but it seems like the kind of petty garbage contention one of these turds would use if backed into a corner. Kind of like the reason they probably all have "niggardly" tucked away in their back pockets like so much pocket-sand.
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Aug 24, 2015 04:14
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) form of expression based on glorifying raw, naked power. Its themes include loud, powerful machines, monumental but sparsely decorated buildings, weapons and warfare, swaggering martial music, and young strapping white men in uniforms making Hard Decisions and dying heroically for their country.
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StandardVC10 posted:Basically World War I was a huge shock to Europe's intellectual community and while a lot of them went "gently caress the world" and invented Dadaism, a few instead decided "actually, war is awesome and manly!" Those were the Futurists. I mean, they had some other poo poo going on too, they were very big on motion and technology, but they're mostly remembered for being weird young men who wrote manifestos and were uncomfortably close to fascism. Actually, The Futurist manifesto predates WWI by 5 years, and the movement is a lot more complex than that. A big part of it, for example, is that Italy had recently unified, and tried to turn it's gaze outward, with the hope of building an empire of it's own. However, it found that it was kinda late to the game, and there was very little left for them to invade and become rich off of. Surrounded by other, greater powers, Futurism was related to a belief among Italian intellectuals and the middle class that to gain it's rightful place, Italy would need to go to war. In addition, it worshiped technology as a means to achieve this seizing of the Imperialist dream, and advancement overall, as only half of Italy was really industrialized at the time. Futurist art tends to focus on machines (often to the neglect of people) and violence. Paintings of racecars, fighter planes, tracers crossing a battlefield, and such. I'll shut up, though, and repost this bit from the Futurist Manifesto, because you can practically hear it right from the mouths of a lot of the DE types. F.T. Marinetti posted:1. We want to sing the love of danger, the habit of energy and rashness.
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Aug 24, 2015 04:17
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My favorite part of the Sims interview was the bit that went "Hmf, typical leftist." "No, I was asking about your statement that you could've done the story in 250 issues, instead of the three hundred you did do." "Oh, sorry, I misunderstood." Way to not be a dominant figure, Sims.
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Aug 24, 2015 04:18
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Woolie Wool posted:It's not just "the artistic part of fascism", it's fascism as art. It's a violently emotional and histrionic ( Basically Warhammer and Warhammer 40k then? 
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Aug 24, 2015 04:37
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Klaus88 posted:Basically Warhammer and Warhammer 40k then? 75% of nerdy fiction, really. All of which was
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Aug 24, 2015 04:43
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404 reading comprehension not found, please ignore this post
Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 04:51 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 04:48
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Klaus88 posted:Basically Warhammer and Warhammer 40k then? Not enough cute twinks. 
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Aug 24, 2015 04:52
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Tiberius Thyben posted:Actually, The Futurist manifesto predates WWI by 5 years, and the movement is a lot more complex than that. A big part of it, for example, is that Italy had recently unified, and tried to turn it's gaze outward, with the hope of building an empire of it's own. However, it found that it was kinda late to the game, and there was very little left for them to invade and become rich off of. Surrounded by other, greater powers, Futurism was related to a belief among Italian intellectuals and the middle class that to gain it's rightful place, Italy would need to go to war. In addition, it worshiped technology as a means to achieve this seizing of the Imperialist dream, and advancement overall, as only half of Italy was really industrialized at the time. Futurist art tends to focus on machines (often to the neglect of people) and violence. Paintings of racecars, fighter planes, tracers crossing a battlefield, and such. Hmm, seems I got some of my facts wrong. Thank you for the correction.
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Aug 24, 2015 05:41
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The best response to reactionary sci-fi nerds is either Norman Spinrad's The Iron Dream, a sci-fi novel written by Hitler that reads like so much bad fiction, or Michael Moorcock's essay Starship Stormtroopers. Both were written in the 70s or 80s. Noted SJW George RR Martin also had some good takedowns of the Puppies. Their agenda didn't resemble any sci-fi I've read, except maybe Heinlein.Woolie Wool posted:Is there a Grand Unifying Theory of Nerd Awfulness somewhere? https://stuffgeekslove.wordpress.com/ Is great. Night10194 posted:What was Italian Futurism? The source for one of the most inspiring manifestos in history. Politics aside, it's a call for art that engages with and glorifies technology instead of going back to pastoral cliches. TIME AND SPACE DIED YESTERDAY http://www.italianfuturism.org/manifestos/foundingmanifesto/ Count Chocula has a new favorite as of 05:47 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 05:44
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They can't be that like the Dork Enlightenment because DE hates "degenerate" art like literally anything that's not exact realistic depictions of things. I mean pretty spot on in every other way, though.
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Aug 24, 2015 06:29
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DE proponents can't be all that like Italian Futurism because right there it says IF hates utilitarianism, and if there's one thing hyper-rationalist internet-thinkers love it's discussing how suffering and inconvenience are totally fine to visit on massive percentages of the population to enrich a slim majority. But seriously. They're both a curse.
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Aug 24, 2015 08:23
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Pierson posted:DE proponents can't be all that like Italian Futurism because right there it says IF hates utilitarianism, and if there's one thing hyper-rationalist internet-thinkers love it's discussing how suffering and inconvenience are totally fine to visit on massive percentages of the population to enrich a slim majority. Isn't that literally the exact opposite of utilitarianism? Short of a hypothetical utility monster scenarios utilitarianism is about trying to do the maximum amount of good for the largest number of people. The increased utility of the rich getting slightly richer is not even in the right order of magnitude to counteract the decreased utility or the poor being unable afford basic necessities.
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Aug 24, 2015 09:13
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Vorpal Cat posted:Isn't that literally the exact opposite of utilitarianism? Exactly. The first lesson of DE is that nerds don't understand philosophy.
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Aug 24, 2015 09:15
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Exactly. The first lesson of DE is that nerds don't understand __________. You can fill in the space with anything.
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Aug 24, 2015 09:23
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Vorpal Cat posted:Isn't that literally the exact opposite of utilitarianism? Short of a hypothetical utility monster scenarios utilitarianism is about trying to do the maximum amount of good for the largest number of people. The increased utility of the rich getting slightly richer is not even in the right order of magnitude to counteract the decreased utility or the poor being unable afford basic necessities. See also; Yud and that insane thought experiment he made about it being preferable to torture a single man for forty years than for ten thousand people to get a mote of dust in their eye, and his cabal slavered over it and how rational it was.
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Aug 24, 2015 09:58
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:They can't be that like the Dork Enlightenment because DE hates "degenerate" art like literally anything that's not exact realistic depictions of things.
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Aug 24, 2015 10:40
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Pierson posted:See also; Yud and that insane thought experiment he made about it being preferable to torture a single man for forty years than for ten thousand people to get a mote of dust in their eye, and his cabal slavered over it and how rational it was.
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Aug 24, 2015 10:41
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Cingulate posted:I know it's literally called reaction, but was there ever a reactionary, or fascist, or just militantly right-wing group that appreciated avant-garde art? http://www.jstor.org/stable/261167?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Nolde
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Aug 24, 2015 12:25
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The other difference between Futurists and the Dark Enlightenment is that Futurists produced cool, inventive art when they weren't glorifying mass-murder, writing ghastly screeds about women, and signing up to die horribly in the First World War (there's a reason the movement was short-lived, and it can be seen by looking at the death-dates of many of its artists). I mean, check out some of Umberto Boccioni's work: Elasticity  The Charge of the Lancers  Unique Forms of Continuity in Space  Materia  Laughter  Dynamism of a Soccer Player  Meanwhile, the DE have created... what? Hoon and the Sarkeesian Effect?
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Aug 24, 2015 12:25
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HEY GAL posted:Some Nazis, most notably Goebbels, liked Expressionism. Darth Walrus posted:Meanwhile, the DE have created... what? Hoon and the Sarkeesian Effect? haha Also, I don't think The Sarkeesian Effect has been truly created yet, has it?
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Aug 24, 2015 12:48
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Cingulate posted:To be fair, I am quite sure it only works once you enter the territory of numbers where our intuitions completely fail, not a mere 10.000. It never works, ever, because the difference between torture and a speck of dust is not one of degree. You cannot multiply enough specks in enough eyes and have it ever equal a single moment of torture.
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Aug 24, 2015 12:50
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Darth Walrus posted:Meanwhile, the DE have created... what? Hoon and the Sarkeesian Effect? Part of the problem with sneering at every field of study besides engineering and programming is that you end up with zero artistic and aesthetic taste or theory.
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Aug 24, 2015 12:50
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Heresiarch posted:The "nerds will seek stagnation" thing is sadly true, although it's usually true only of a certain percentage of the subculture, the most hardcore obsessives. Woolie Wool nailed it before: these people loathe and fear actual art and culture, they only like stuff that validates their egos: Woolie Wool posted:Neoreaction/Dork Enlightenment and their cousins over at LessWrong and satellites hate and fear culture. Certainly, they like their commodified pop culture, but more for its signifiers than for its content--many, perhaps the majority of these works have themes and messages that run directly against the sort of thought that underpins these movements. Of course, most obviously and inescapably, Eliezer Yudkowsky's nerd fanfic opus pretty much negates every premise, every theme, every moral of the actual Harry Potter book series, which features an antagonist whose name is French for "flight from death", whose all-consuming lust for immortal life has destroyed his ability to understand or experience even the slightest joy or human attachment. His followers believe in the inherent superiority of a group of people with natural, inherited gifts, even though the actual events of the story show that these people are in character no better, and frequently worse, than "Muggles" without these gifts. He is ultimately defeated by someone who has the natural talent but was raised by those who do not, and successfully integrates the his magical and Muggle sides into a mature identity, accepts his own mortality, and is willing to fight and die even for--especially for--the Muggles that according to Voldemort, he should see himself as innately superior to. See also why art and culture are a complete waste of time in Effective Altruism, and not just because the EAs literally consider the future robot uprising more important than tawdry global poverty here and now. (That second article being written by a Singerian EA pissed off at the Yudkowskian EAs.) (Yudkowsky explicitly said there was no place for art in the Singularity before. This was around the time the libertarians asserted hegemony over transhumanism, kicking out the more leftish technocracy types who thought we were all in this together. I mean, the leftish ones were also comfortable white men who never spoke to anyone who wasn't, but at least they'd heard of other humans existing.)
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Aug 24, 2015 13:05
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What I feel about the singularity can be summed up by that one Pictures for Sad Children comic asking what happens to the rest of the world without running water when the techno-rapture arrives. Also I didn't know anything about Effective Altruism but holy poo poo those articles. There's probably a metaphor somewhere here about how the lives of people like this are reflections of the buildings they work in. The ones that have glass walkways above street-level so they never need to touch the ground: From school to college to STEM fields to silicon valley and never interacting with real life. EDIT: Reading the article comments made me feel a little better, which is probably a first for internet comments. Pierson has a new favorite as of 14:09 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 13:59
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Pierson posted:What I feel about the singularity can be summed up by that one Pictures for Sad Children comic asking what happens to the rest of the world without running water when the techno-rapture arrives. 
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Aug 24, 2015 14:27
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divabot posted:Woolie Wool nailed it before: these people loathe and fear actual art and culture, they only like stuff that validates their egos: The primary unit of nerd "culture" (as opposed to actual culture, which terrifies them), whose primary purpose is entertainment and establishing one's place on the nerd hierarchy, is the signifier. A signifier is an iconic image, quotation, character, design, or symbol that is imbued with "cool" and one can attach to oneself, absorbing its cool by osmosis. Signifiers are inherently narcissistic--it's an expression of how you're relating something someone else made to yourself. The signature banner showing the hero of Spaceballs and Dark Helmet igniting their lighsaber dicks is ultimately about you, not Spaceballs. Signifiers in and of themselves are not necessarily pathological--nearly everyone indulges in them from time to time, whether though bumper stickers, concert T-shirts, sports memorabilia, or Spanish Inquisition avatars (  ) but geeks tend to see things they like as a collection of signifiers rather than a piece of actual human culture, and construct their identity entirely around signifiers. The focus on signifiers spares the geek the burden of examining ambiguities, understanding deeper meanings, or, most importantly, evaluating something a nerd likes in the context of the overall culture of the society a nerd is part of, which involves the unacceptable step of actually acknowledging that "normalfags" (using the *chan term because it exposes this worldview at its ugliest and most basic) are important and may possess insights that you do not.
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Aug 24, 2015 15:15
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I kind of agree with their take on Sugar Man though. It made that guy look like he had positive impact with regards to apartheid, but all even the movie could muster were a bunch of white south africans who listened to his music and felt rebellious cause he says "gently caress" somewhere, instead of actually doing something.
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Aug 24, 2015 15:29
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Warren Ellis posted:There are doubtless a ton of hot takes about Soylent founder Rob Rhinehart’s recent detailed statement about his current lifestyle and philosophy. Everyone’s done jokes about Soylent, including me, so we’ll leave that to the side. One summation of his new statement would be that he’s living the classic 80s cyberpunk lifestyle – living off a single solar panel and a butane burner, wearing clothes made by subsistence-wage workers in China that he throws away when they get dirty, and writing long, confused philosophical screeds that probably largely make sense only in his head. It would be both pointless and cruel to go after every single example of choplogic and error. All that should be taken from his statement is that he treats humanity in much the same way he treats food — as something “rotting.” The guy’s going to be found living in an old bath in Oakland in five years, and we should only feel pity and concern for his well-being.
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Aug 24, 2015 15:32
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Ellis has always been a doofus but I have always enjoyed his tireless mocking of technoutopians.
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Aug 24, 2015 16:07
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So do you want to play a tabletop RPG made by one of these clowns? No? Well I'll just leave this here anyway
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Aug 24, 2015 16:40
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Heresiarch posted:And for anyone still confused about all of it, the Wired writeup on the Hugo shitstorm is very good. I'm running a bit behind the thread, but thanks for this! I hadn't heard about the whole Puppygate thing beforehand so I was confused when everyone started talking about it here.
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Aug 24, 2015 17:10
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DarklyDreaming posted:So do you want to play a tabletop RPG made by one of these clowns? No? Well I'll just leave this here anyway Oh my god this is amazing, it's like FATAL made for Stormfront members rather than 4chan/Chimpout members.  Also skraelings/weaklings was what the Norse called Inuit in Greenland shortly before the Inuit kicked all kinds of Viking rear end.  E: actually the term was used for the natives of Newfoundland, who kicked even more Viking rear end. Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 22:27 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 18:12
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You know I get that he's an insane racist grognard, but you'd think he'd know better than to use Papyrus.
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Aug 24, 2015 18:17
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Pierson posted:What I feel about the singularity can be summed up by that one Pictures for Sad Children comic asking what happens to the rest of the world without running water when the techno-rapture arrives. As long as we're making GBS threads all over Effective Altruism, my biggest beef is the way it feels like just shameful rationalization for things EA's would do anyway. Maximizing lives saved per dollar is pretty cool, but deciding that the best way to save the world is by either becoming rich or working on a cool computer science problem rather than actually helping people is less so. 'Sides which, it seems to me that fixing global poverty would be a necessary step to fixing any higher problems; more people trying to avert an AI apocalypse or build space stations can only help, and by some fortunate coincidence there are several billion people looking for paying work.
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Aug 24, 2015 18:37
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DarklyDreaming posted:So do you want to play a tabletop RPG made by one of these clowns? No? Well I'll just leave this here anyway To be fair, I did technically ask for it. MizPiz posted:Please tell me there's a rulebook for this game. I want know more about this perfect world of libertarian monarchies.
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Aug 24, 2015 18:38
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Hugo Nominee John C. Wright, ladies and gentlemen.quote:The Hugo Award voters paid me the signal honor of burning down two or perhaps three whole categories of awards merely to prevent me from being awarded the spaceship which the breakdown of the votes shows I was due.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:09
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