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Some people will learn better by physically typing it all out themselves rather than reading what somebody else has done. They could also find themselves thinking "drat this is fun". Obviously we have no way to know, but I have just never personally thought copying your code was a very good way to learn much of anything.
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Aug 24, 2015 17:13
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Isn't the rumor that Hunter S Thompson re-typed The Great Gatsby so that he would know what it felt like to write a great novel? Steal all the code you want, but I am a big advocate of retyping it. All the little patterns and syntax bits get drilled into you that way.
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Aug 24, 2015 17:31
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I think Bob Morales's point is a good one, though, in that some people are not capable (or willing...) to understand the code they get and will just run it willy-nilly. That's the danger. There will always be people who try to run before they learn to walk and get burned.
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Aug 24, 2015 17:36
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totalnewbie posted:I think Bob Morales's point is a good one, though, in that some people are not capable (or willing...) to understand the code they get and will just run it willy-nilly. That's the danger. There will always be people who try to run before they learn to walk and get burned. When I get home and in front of the keyboard, let me tell you the story how two Google'd commands broke an entire RAC cluster. Knowledge is power. Knowledge, without respecting the damage that knowledge can do, is like playing with a loaded gun in the data center.
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Aug 24, 2015 17:39
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Yeah, when I look up a script online, the main purpose is for figuring out which CIM/WMI class I need to use to get the result I want. If you want to accomplish a specific task, and said specific task is something that's commonly done (e.g. finding a list of computers on the domain that haven't logged in within the last 90 days), then taking a script from the internet can work. But for learning the building blocks of how that script may work, it's definitely much more handy to re-implement, and can help distinguish a good script from a bad one. Perhaps, for example, they've used aliases instead of clear to read command names, making the script more difficult to maintain than it needs to be. And once you know the building blocks, it becomes really easy to quickly query something related to that concept, and combine it with more building blocks to make it do what you want it to.
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Aug 24, 2015 17:51
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poo poo pissing me off: My contract expires next week and I still haven't been told whether it will be renewed or not.
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Aug 24, 2015 17:55
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Raerlynn posted:When I get home and in front of the keyboard, let me tell you the story how two Google'd commands broke an entire RAC cluster. Knowledge is power. Knowledge, without respecting the damage that knowledge can do, is like playing with a loaded gun in the data center. Do people not perform limited tests on non-integral resources with their scripts? This kind of poo poo always baffles me. Anyway, as far as the copy/paste shenanigans with Powershell go, most of the stuff you can intuit at a glance. Other stuff, like .Net, can appear complicated if you're just a script monkey used to running cmdlets. Some of the most hilarious foul ups I've seen in Powershell have involved acting on information from a SQL query. Oh, so you set the script to run an action based on results from code:What happens when your script encounters a blank target name?
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Aug 24, 2015 18:05
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PS errors happen all the time when you're learning, doesn't mean it's not a good attempt. It's insanely powerful but even more clunky - some commands only take strings, some only take objects, etc, so a lot of the time you get an error you just need to expand a property out in a certain way instead of passing through the whole object. My client is half red at any given time. You can also write valid scripts that work in really lovely ways (such as getting every mailbox in your domain before filtering the results in another command). Just take what you need from left to right
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Aug 24, 2015 18:37
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Wrath of the Bitch King posted:Do people not perform limited tests on non-integral resources with their scripts? This kind of poo poo always baffles me. Stuff like this is exactly what I'm afraid of with this guy. He once brought a prod server to its knees by testing a log searching script locally instead of copying the logs to hus own machine and running it there. Turns out chugging trough 200 megs of text line by line takes quite a bit of CPU... also loading all 200 megs into RAM instead of processing one 10 meg file at a time. On a 2003 server with 2GB of RAM. He means well, he's smart enough, and he learns, albeit slower than I'd like, but he's a fresh grad hired directly for T3 with exactly zero experience, so I really don't trust him with powershell yet. I'll take the time to really really stress the -whatif and -confirm flags with him tomorrow.
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Aug 24, 2015 18:51
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Wrath of the Bitch King posted:Do people not perform limited tests on non-integral resources with their scripts? This kind of poo poo always baffles me. This instance basically was two different people who failed to realize the command they issued did more than they thought it would. The short version was the first person ran a "logadm /etc/" on some godless version of Solaris, which nuked one of the hosts in the cluster and introduced a bunch of I/O errors. This was immediately caught and sent to a tier 3. Since it was part of a cluster, HA kicked in and a bit of ribbing while the ticket was moved up. That host was almost fixed when someone else on the other side of the building saw HA for the cluster was down and decided to bring HA up. What that person didn't realize was the command he used to do so bounced the whole cluster and synced the aforementioned I/O errors to the whole cluster. Entire cluster got to be rebuilt from backups, out of action for three days. The entire team got a talking to about vetting code from unknown sources after that. Raerlynn fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 18:52
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Pissing me off: Working for a large manufacturing company that won't give us downtime to fix ongoing issues. They're basically asking us to change the flat tire on a car that's traveling 70 mph.
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Aug 24, 2015 18:53
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CptJackLaser posted:Pissing me off: Working for a large manufacturing company that won't give us downtime to fix ongoing issues. They're basically asking us to change the flat tire on a car that's traveling 70 mph. So? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQm5BnhTBEQ
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Aug 24, 2015 18:58
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Is there anyone here up to speed on Lenovo security issues? I'd be interested in having a conversation with you.
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Aug 24, 2015 18:58
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Potato Salad posted:Is there anyone here up to speed on Lenovo security issues? I'd be interested in having a conversation with you.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:21
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Also their website is a stupid piece of poo poo that won't let me complete extending a couple of warranties.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:26
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Dick Trauma posted:Also their website is a stupid piece of poo poo that won't let me complete extending a couple of warranties. This is honestly the worst part. They will always compromise the security of their systems, but jesus that website.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:27
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Wait a minute. Why isn't the drive shaft putting power into the rear tire that's elevated? Is this a right wheel drive car?
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Aug 24, 2015 19:30
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Inspector_666 posted:We're talking about babby's first Powershell script here, it shouldn't be that hard to understand whatever snippets get used. Exactly, it's basically how I learned to make network maintenance python scripts. Just knowing exactly what I wanted to accomplish and googling Stackoverflow for examples. That's also how I got up to speed with Python 3 when the official docs were lacking in clarity at times. EDIT: And to re-state what others have said, always test against non-prod. Because then you can see how it breaks, and it WILL break. Then you can handle those exceptions gracefully. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 19:31
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Rhymenoserous posted:Wait a minute. Why isn't the drive shaft putting power into the rear tire that's elevated? Is this a right wheel drive car? Some combination of limited slip differential or Torsen differential and active traction control to ensure that the "slipping" wheel (the one in the air) gets less power, most likely. Edit: the ATC probably applies brakes to the wheels in the air, too. Sheep fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 19:37
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flosofl posted:Exactly, it's basically how I learned to make network maintenance python scripts. Just knowing exactly what I wanted to accomplish and googling Stackoverflow for examples. That's also how I got up to speed with Python 3 when the official docs were lacking in clarity at times. Yeah, I'm not saying you google THE PROBLEM +powershell and then run the first result as admin without looking at it, but most examples of Powershell stuff you'll find is fully expanded and pretty simple. I haven't had a ton of cases where I really get to use it in my day-to-day, but so far it's been half me whipping up scripts myself (HOW CAN I MAKE THIS A CSV TO READ FROM?!), and half me using other people's and from that I've learned new tricks and methods.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:12
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quote:Hi, Of course nobody got back to me so I had to bug them again 2 days later. Their response: quote:Please tell me exactly how you get to that dinner so I can reproduce it get understanding of this? Offshore support. Ugh.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:46
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Are you swapping recipes with your outsourced help desk?
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Aug 24, 2015 20:51
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unclenutzzy posted:Are you swapping recipes with your outsourced help desk? I bet they make a really good Beef Barley soup.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:58
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I was on a chat support with an offshore tech with EMC last week. After he (granted, full dues given) fixed the issue for me on the specific machine, he interrupted my asking about how to prevent said issue from happening again with "can we close SR pls."
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Aug 24, 2015 20:58
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Bob Morales posted:Of course nobody got back to me so I had to bug them again 2 days later. Their response: He is obviously asking you for good places to eat for when he is visiting to fix your problem. Give him some help dude.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:58
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Pissing me off today/now: AT&T. Yes, it's experiencing latency and packet loss. No, we can't let them intrusively test to see what's up because it'd bring down the office. And as such, no, AT&T can't do jack poo poo. Friday is my last day, I should have just lied and told the boss I'd opened a ticket.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:08
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I'm liking AT&T right now. They just pulled fiber in on Friday and the router etc showed up for it today. 
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Aug 24, 2015 21:10
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I'm not liking ATT right now. Switching over to business UVerse in an area that only had lovely DSL before and we got some kid who said "I dont even know why I took this job, Im not very good with technology". Then managed to enter in the wrong static IP and turn on DHCP before leaving. Thanks ATT!
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Aug 24, 2015 21:16
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We had ATT out not long ago to install a new 20mb fiber line. Part of this issue is our fault for not prepping well enough, but what the tech did is pretty inexcusable. Our cutover was set for 2 weeks or so after the install to give us time to work on things. Well, the tech came out, pulled the line and went into our closet to terminate at the smartjack, except there was no open jack. What does he decide to do? If you thought he would ask us where to put the connection as there was no open jack you would be incorrect. His actual solution to the problem? Disconnect another fiber connection from a jack and plug the new one in.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:35
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One of our new guys went to a site to connect the equipment up for a fibre circuit, phoned me constantly to try and get my attention, asked me a load of questions when I called back, didn't look at the instruction sheet I gave him labelled with pretty lines saying what plugs in where, argued that the wrong kit had been supplied despite sending me a photo of what he had in his hand and it being correct, then said that it wasn't like the stuff he had seen before, was assured again that it was correct, and came back to the office a couple hours later declaring that it was all done. Look on the firewall today and there's not even a link showing on the port that he confirmed twice in writing and once on the phone he connected the gear to. I'm putting money on it being plugged into the wrong interface on the ISPs kit.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:57
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MF_James posted:We had ATT out not long ago to install a new 20mb fiber line. Part of this issue is our fault for not prepping well enough, but what the tech did is pretty inexcusable. I tell literally anyone that will listen that AT&T techs require adult supervision at all times because of poo poo like this
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Aug 24, 2015 22:00
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go3 posted:I tell literally anyone that will listen that AT&T techs require adult supervision at all times because of poo poo like this We had a Verizon guy in our building cut our riser (the cable from the building basement to a tenant's space) because he needed a riser to a lower floor. An entire wall of smart jacks went dead. I found the guy in the basement packing up his stuff to leave. I asked him what was going on, and he said "oh, I cut an unused riser and re-ran it five floors lower". I almost punched him. He ended up just leaving, there was no one I could call at Verizon quick enough to stop him. It was surreal. He would do nothing for us, his order said "cut this wire" so he cut it, even though he completely saw it took our our stuff." He didn't even argue that he took us down, he just cut it. He said he'd go back to the office and submit a repair report. I flipped out, but he refused. A week later he returned to redo it, and didn't even blink when he saw me. I almost had a stroke.
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Aug 24, 2015 22:17
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I'd have locked the door at the bottom of the riser and sabotaged the buildings sewerage plumbing. gently caress that guy.
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Aug 24, 2015 22:45
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go3 posted:I tell literally anyone that will listen that AT&T techs require adult supervision at all times because of poo poo like this Yeah our network architect was supposed to be there, he couldn't' be there due to being on-site at a client and so he told one of our T2 guys to manage it. This T2 guy is the laziest jerk that ever was and was probably busy watching cat vids while he was supposed to be watching this guy. If someone had mentioned that this would be happening I would have gladly taken the time to babysit the fuckstick, but no one told me, so I was happily sitting at my desk doing my normal poo poo while 2 of our 4 PRI cards were being taken out of commission by ATT nitwit.
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Aug 24, 2015 22:46
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Thanks Ants posted:I'd have locked the door at the bottom of the riser and sabotaged the buildings sewerage plumbing. gently caress that guy. Are you referencing my other story? Cause it was the same building.
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Aug 24, 2015 23:31
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That building had all the luck
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Aug 25, 2015 00:05
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Thanks Ants posted:That building had all the luck I worked there six years. We were robbed three times, the bathrooms would overflow and come down the hall, there was an event space on the roof so there's be people drunk and vomiting in the lobby, etc.
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Aug 25, 2015 00:14
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This is a flawless representation. I am sending it to my co-workers.
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Aug 25, 2015 00:49
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CptJackLaser posted:This is a flawless representation. I am sending it to my co-workers. That's a terrible idea, since no one died and everything (in the video) went fine, someone high up will take it as proof it can be done and why can't you get this change done?
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Aug 25, 2015 01:25
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BaseballPCHiker posted:I have one remote site that refuses to play nice. Site lost internet and power a while back and refused to rejoin the domain. Theyre working off of cached or local credentials for now. Figured it was a DNS issue. All the DNS settings are right, the computers are still using the primary DC as their NTP source, DCDIAG DNS tests all pass on the DC's. Had our ISP out who admitted fault with their line and replaced the old modem, still didnt fix it. All the PC's their can get online fine thankfully and are working off of backups and flash drives in the meantime. So update on this from a few weeks ago and fitting with the current gently caress ATT conversation. I was at the end of my rope with this site trying to get things back up and running. Finally I configured a new router and sent it down to replace the existing one since it was the only thing I hadn't tried replacing. Still no luck. During all of this I had at some point had an ATT tech come down to check our connection. I wasnt sure what he would find if anything because the internet WAS up for everyone it was just LDAP bindings that were failing for the office. Anyway he came in and said that nothing had changed but that we were on an older DSL line and that they had just recently expanded their U-Verse network into the area and that we could get higher speeds for the same price. So I went ahead and ordered it for the site while I was still trying to get it fixed. Lo and behold as soon as we switched over the connection everything started working. I've never been as livid with a vendor in my life. They swore up and down to me that nothing had changed on the line and that everything was working properly. I still don't know if it was a simple bandwidth issue which I highly doubt because some people at that site were still up and running, or if something changed on one of their edge routers or something entirely different or unrelated. All I know for certain is that it has worked perfectly since switching our connections. The only silver lining in all of this is that I learned a ton about DNS and LDAP.
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Aug 25, 2015 13:49
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