Super Mario Maker: now everyone can Kaizo!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Super Mario Maker: now everyone can Kaizo!

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

MTV Crib Death posted:

In preparation for Maker Maker, I dove into the dragon's mouth.

Lost Levels. No continues. No Warps. No infinite lives trick. All Luigi.

Congratulations. You are a super player.

I found Luigi to be easier than Mario because there are a number of jumps designed to be hard for Mario. Except for the castle where you constantly hit your head on the ceiling.

# ? Aug 25, 2015 23:31

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# ? May 29, 2024 00:43

FPzero: Oct 20, 2008; Game Over
Return of Mido

Super Mario World's graphics are a mixed bag and could have been made better if they used the palette rows to their fullest.

This is SMW's basic palette. Look at how much black space for unused colors there are! Since I've done SMW hacking in the past, I can explain a little bit about how Nintendo set these palettes up.

Starting from the top row, rows 0-7 are for foreground/background objects. SMW's graphics in general use only the left half of each palette row. Rows 0 and 1 are for backgrounds exclusively and can cycle colors based on what dropdown box settings you have selected on the right. Rows 2 and 3 are the same way except for the major foreground elements like grassland tiles, cave tiles and castle tiles. Rows 4-7 are generally used for the variety of special objects like pipes, coins, cement blocks, question blocks, etc, that are found throughout the levels.

Rows 8-F are for sprites. Row 8 is Mario's palette and anything that needs to be gold, tan or brown, like keys and Monty Moles. Row 9 is most castle enemies, bullet bills, basically anything gray. Rows A-D are for yellow, blue, red, and green sprites respectively, and make up the majority of the sprites you'll see in the game. The last two rows, E-F are special palette rows in that they can cycle depending on what enemies are needed. Dino Rhinos, Big Boo, and a few other special sprites use these cycling palettes. Bowser also uses a palette from here but due to how Mode 7 works, that palette row gets loaded into the foreground rows somewhere in Row 0-7 because he's actually a Layer 1 object.

Changing any colors in Rows 4 through D will permanently change those colors for every single level in the game. They are "Shared Palettes." By the way, those colors on the right half of rows 2, 3, 4, 9, A, and B are used exclusively for the berries that Yoshi can eat in those few levels. That's all they're used for.

When making custom levels, it's actually very easy to change palettes and not explode the rest of the game's colors. Clicking that checkbox that says "Enable Custom Palette" will make it so that level's palette can be modified freely without affecting the rest of the game's Shared Palette. For example:

Using a custom palette and expanding upon the original game's palette and graphical work, you can make things much more detailed and colored while still retaining a "Mario" feel.

# ? Aug 25, 2015 23:40

Hakkesshu: Nov 4, 2009

That looks bad though

# ? Aug 25, 2015 23:42

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Hakkesshu posted:

That looks bad though

Yeah, I would say Bowser is one of the only things in that game that doesn't look that great. I think especially nowadays where we have a really great looking 3D Bowser model to compare it to. Bowser is also a really loving hard character to draw correctly. I think the problem with the Mario Maker SMW Bowser is they tried to make him how he looks currently instead of basing his full sprite off of his clown car sprite.

What happens if you put Mario Maker's bowser into the clown car? Does he get his original design back? Or any of his moves?

# ? Aug 25, 2015 23:49

FPzero: Oct 20, 2008; Game Over
Return of Mido

Yeah, well, that's what I get for grabbing some images from a project I worked on about 5 years ago and am not that proud of anymore. I was mostly looking for a quick example to go with what I was writing up. :v:

# ? Aug 25, 2015 23:54

The Bee: Nov 25, 2012; Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!

Kelp Plankton posted:

If you've played two NSMB games(any two) you can skip the rest. They're all good but they made too many too quickly so they're kind of samey. I do recommend getting four people together for the Wii or Wii U ones sometime though because it's pretty fun and crazy to do co-op 2D Mario.

3D World being 3D eliminated a lot of the chaos of that mode.

I dunno, the crown adds that golden apple chaos. It's great.

# ? Aug 25, 2015 23:56

MTV Crib Death: Jun 21, 2012; I told my fat girlfriend I wanted to bang skinny chicks and now I'm wondering why my relationship is garbage.

DalaranJ posted:

I found Luigi to be easier than Mario because there are a number of jumps designed to be hard for Mario. Except for the castle where you constantly hit your head on the ceiling.

I agree that Luigi is objectively the superior character for beating the game. The challenge for me was adapting my Mario-based muscle memory.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 00:05

VideoGames: Aug 18, 2003

FPzero posted:

Super Mario World's graphics are a mixed bag and could have been made better if they used the palette rows to their fullest.

This is SMW's basic palette. Look at how much black space for unused colors there are! Since I've done SMW hacking in the past, I can explain a little bit about how Nintendo set these palettes up.

Starting from the top row, rows 0-7 are for foreground/background objects. SMW's graphics in general use only the left half of each palette row. Rows 0 and 1 are for backgrounds exclusively and can cycle colors based on what dropdown box settings you have selected on the right. Rows 2 and 3 are the same way except for the major foreground elements like grassland tiles, cave tiles and castle tiles. Rows 4-7 are generally used for the variety of special objects like pipes, coins, cement blocks, question blocks, etc, that are found throughout the levels.

Rows 8-F are for sprites. Row 8 is Mario's palette and anything that needs to be gold, tan or brown, like keys and Monty Moles. Row 9 is most castle enemies, bullet bills, basically anything gray. Rows A-D are for yellow, blue, red, and green sprites respectively, and make up the majority of the sprites you'll see in the game. The last two rows, E-F are special palette rows in that they can cycle depending on what enemies are needed. Dino Rhinos, Big Boo, and a few other special sprites use these cycling palettes. Bowser also uses a palette from here but due to how Mode 7 works, that palette row gets loaded into the foreground rows somewhere in Row 0-7 because he's actually a Layer 1 object.

Changing any colors in Rows 4 through D will permanently change those colors for every single level in the game. They are "Shared Palettes." By the way, those colors on the right half of rows 2, 3, 4, 9, A, and B are used exclusively for the berries that Yoshi can eat in those few levels. That's all they're used for.

When making custom levels, it's actually very easy to change palettes and not explode the rest of the game's colors. Clicking that checkbox that says "Enable Custom Palette" will make it so that level's palette can be modified freely without affecting the rest of the game's Shared Palette. For example:

Using a custom palette and expanding upon the original game's palette and graphical work, you can make things much more detailed and colored while still retaining a "Mario" feel.

thanks for this, it was really interesting. :cheers:

# ? Aug 26, 2015 00:24

Sea Lily: Aug 5, 2007; Everything changes, Pit.
Even gods.

Macaluso posted:

What happens if you put Mario Maker's bowser into the clown car? Does he get his original design back? Or any of his moves?

He keeps the new sprite but he'll duck into the clown car and throw out bobombs on either side like he did the mechakoopas in the SMW boss battle. If you use Bowser Jr instead he throws koopa shells rather than bobombs

They do this on all game styles though I think? The biggest change is how Bowser attacks. SMB1 just spits fireballs forward, SMB3 does the block destroying butt-stomp, SMW spits fireballs into the sky and they rain down like in his original boss battle, NSMB spits out a bunch of them rapidly in a fan pattern.

If you stick SMB3 Bowser in a clown car he can't butt-stomp anymore though obviously. But the others still do their thing I think.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 00:29

MrFlibble: Nov 28, 2007; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Fallen Rib

FPzero posted:

Yeah, well, that's what I get for grabbing some images from a project I worked on about 5 years ago and am not that proud of anymore. I was mostly looking for a quick example to go with what I was writing up.

Alright, now take some time and find an example you're proud of / is illustrative of your point.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 01:00

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

FPzero posted:

Super Mario World's graphics are a mixed bag and could have been made better if they used the palette rows to their fullest.

This is SMW's basic palette. Look at how much black space for unused colors there are! Since I've done SMW hacking in the past, I can explain a little bit about how Nintendo set these palettes up.

Starting from the top row, rows 0-7 are for foreground/background objects. SMW's graphics in general use only the left half of each palette row. Rows 0 and 1 are for backgrounds exclusively and can cycle colors based on what dropdown box settings you have selected on the right. Rows 2 and 3 are the same way except for the major foreground elements like grassland tiles, cave tiles and castle tiles. Rows 4-7 are generally used for the variety of special objects like pipes, coins, cement blocks, question blocks, etc, that are found throughout the levels.

Rows 8-F are for sprites. Row 8 is Mario's palette and anything that needs to be gold, tan or brown, like keys and Monty Moles. Row 9 is most castle enemies, bullet bills, basically anything gray. Rows A-D are for yellow, blue, red, and green sprites respectively, and make up the majority of the sprites you'll see in the game. The last two rows, E-F are special palette rows in that they can cycle depending on what enemies are needed. Dino Rhinos, Big Boo, and a few other special sprites use these cycling palettes. Bowser also uses a palette from here but due to how Mode 7 works, that palette row gets loaded into the foreground rows somewhere in Row 0-7 because he's actually a Layer 1 object.

Changing any colors in Rows 4 through D will permanently change those colors for every single level in the game. They are "Shared Palettes." By the way, those colors on the right half of rows 2, 3, 4, 9, A, and B are used exclusively for the berries that Yoshi can eat in those few levels. That's all they're used for.

When making custom levels, it's actually very easy to change palettes and not explode the rest of the game's colors. Clicking that checkbox that says "Enable Custom Palette" will make it so that level's palette can be modified freely without affecting the rest of the game's Shared Palette. For example:

Using a custom palette and expanding upon the original game's palette and graphical work, you can make things much more detailed and colored while still retaining a "Mario" feel.

thats really cool thank you for that, I always wondered how custom levels were made

# ? Aug 26, 2015 01:06

Ometeotl: Feb 13, 2012; It's MISSEL! Or SISSLE!
I confused myself...

Eonwe posted:

thats really cool thank you for that, I always wondered how custom levels were made

That's the easy stuff. Just wait until you have to deal with sprite headers and sets and poo poo. :suicide:

# ? Aug 26, 2015 01:37

deadwing: Mar 5, 2007

Ometeotl posted:

That's the easy stuff. Just wait until you have to deal with sprite headers and sets and poo poo.

this is why I am spending sixty dollars for Super Mario Maker for the Nintendo Wii U video game console

# ? Aug 26, 2015 02:02

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

I do wish someone would put out something like this on Steam, would own p hard

# ? Aug 26, 2015 02:04

J-Spot: May 7, 2002

Eonwe posted:

I do wish someone would put out something like this on Steam, would own p hard

If you want a Mario level editor for PC you could try Super Mario Bros. X. It's a bit more complicated than Mario Maker but doesn't have the restrictions of Lunar Magic.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 02:58

Ometeotl: Feb 13, 2012; It's MISSEL! Or SISSLE!
I confused myself...

J-Spot posted:

If you want a Mario level editor for PC you could try Super Mario Bros. X. It's a bit more complicated than Mario Maker but doesn't have the restrictions of Lunar Magic.

But get the Wohl's Editor version. It's based on SMBX but is significantly better and fixes many instances of SMBX's bad coding.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 03:04

Kly: Aug 8, 2003

my kid really likes Mario games and loves Bowser, he'll spend more time messing around in a Bowser fight than playing through the levels so I'm really looking forward to building him an all Bowser all the time level with this.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 03:10

GreatGreen: Jul 3, 2007; That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

So this thread has me thinking about playing Super Mario World again, but I don't have an actual SNES and a co-worker of mine tells me that the game's physics feel different on an emulator vs on an actual SNES. Is there any truth to that at all or is the guy full of poo poo?

# ? Aug 26, 2015 03:11

PaletteSwappedNinja: Jun 3, 2008; One Nation, Under God.

Ometeotl posted:

It's like they forgot that the SNES doesn't have the strict palette limitations of the NES.

I remember reading an interview where Miyamoto said he specifically kept them from using the full range of the palette because he thought it'd be easier to wow people later in the system's life if they deliberately handicapped themselves at launch, or some dumb thing.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 03:13

GI_Clutch: Aug 22, 2000; by Fluffdaddy; Dinosaur Gum

New Gamexplain video going into the limits on the different types of objects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIGRg1DLwi8

Summary for those who can't stand the dude's voice:
The objects seem to be designated into groups. You can place up to X number of objects within a group before the objects in the group are disabled in the palette.
You can place the following per sub-layer:
Up to 2000 total: blocks, question blocks, note blocks, ice blocks, and coins
Up to 200 total: mushroom platforms, conveyor belts, bridges, vines, and pipes
Up to 100 total: power-ups (power-ups placed inside blocks do not count toward this limit)
Up to 100 total: enemies (Lakitu counts as two), POW blocks, P-switches, Yoshi eggs, clown cars, one-way doors, skull platforms, firebars, buzz saws, moving platforms. Wings appear to count toward this limit.
Up to 3 total: Bowser/Bowser Jr.
Up to 10 total: warp pipes (to go between sub-layers)
Up to 100 total: arrows
Four sets of doors

It's per area, so yes, you could have six total Bowsers if you utilize a warp pipe.
VVVVVVV

GI_Clutch fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Aug 26, 2015

# ? Aug 26, 2015 04:17

Sea Lily: Aug 5, 2007; Everything changes, Pit.
Even gods.

Is that limit per-area or total?

Like could I have an area with 3 bowsers then take a pipe to another area with 3 more? Or is it 3 in the level period?

# ? Aug 26, 2015 04:20

Evil Eagle: Nov 5, 2009

Kelp Plankton posted:

Is that limit per-area or total?

Like could I have an area with 3 bowsers then take a pipe to another area with 3 more? Or is it 3 in the level period?

It says per sub-layer, and there's 2 of those per level so you can have 6 bowsers.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 04:27

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

You'd better believe I'm going to make a level titled '6 Total Bowsers'

GI_Clutch posted:

Up to 100 total: enemies (Lakitu counts as two), POW blocks, P-switches, Yoshi eggs, clown cars, one-way doors, skull platforms, firebars, buzz saws, moving platforms. Wings appear to count toward this limit.

I think the wings only count if you attach them to something other than an enemy.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 04:45

MorningMoon: Dec 29, 2013; He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

I wanted to make a giant Bowser made out of Bowsers

# ? Aug 26, 2015 04:46

zfleeman: Mar 12, 2014; I wonder how you spell Tabasco.

I've been out of the loop. Do we know how sharing levels works? If one of you people likes a level, do you have to share a code with everybody, or is there some awesome http://lbp.me service that exists (I know, that's probably asking too much, but I can dream).

# ? Aug 26, 2015 15:35

No Dignity: Oct 15, 2007

I think the best way to work it will be a friend code/Nintendo username list in the OP, I don't think there's anyway outside of the game itself you can view or search for levels

# ? Aug 26, 2015 15:48

PaletteSwappedNinja: Jun 3, 2008; One Nation, Under God.

There are numerical codes for each level and I wanna say you can take Miiverse links to levels via the browser. You can also just search for the level by name.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 16:07

Sade: Aug 3, 2009; Can't touch this.
No really, you can't

My understanding is you'll be able to "follow" level creators totally separate from adding them to your nnid friends list, so if somebody is making cool marios you'll be able to get them that way without having to add them.

Hey, is anybody else planning on doing a SA-centric mario design contest? Because I'd love to do a series of "Iron Plumber" contests where there's a "featured ingredient" (enemy like koopas and chain chomps, or objects like ? blocks and moving platforms) and people have a week to make a level that best uses the ingredient. If anybody else has a bright idea for a contest you're welcome to do it, but having two mario contests at once seems kinda pointless.

vvv I mean if somebody else is going to run a contest, I'm not going to because that'd be redundant.

Sade fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Aug 26, 2015

# ? Aug 26, 2015 16:28

zfleeman: Mar 12, 2014; I wonder how you spell Tabasco.

Sade posted:

but having two mario contests at once seems kinda pointless.

What's the other mario contest?

# ? Aug 26, 2015 17:43

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Sade posted:

Hey, is anybody else planning on doing a SA-centric mario design contest?

Yes, I am. I posted a bit about it earlier. It's similar enough to your idea that if you want to PM me requests I can probably incorporate them.

# ? Aug 26, 2015 23:48

Sade: Aug 3, 2009; Can't touch this.
No really, you can't

DalaranJ posted:

Yes, I am. I posted a bit about it earlier. It's similar enough to your idea that if you want to PM me requests I can probably incorporate them.

No worries, go right ahead. Just means I get to compete instead of running the show.

# ? Aug 27, 2015 00:46

ThisIsACoolGuy: Nov 2, 2010; Shaped like a friend

Check out this neat amiibo video

Has some new costumes in it

# ? Aug 27, 2015 20:18

MorningMoon: Dec 29, 2013; He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

Amazing.

# ? Aug 27, 2015 20:26

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Check out this neat amiibo video

Has some new costumes in it

Game of the Year. Eat your heart out Fallout Bore

# ? Aug 27, 2015 20:59

Despera: Jun 6, 2011

Game of the century

11/10 - Ign

# ? Aug 27, 2015 21:19

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Check out this neat amiibo video

Has some new costumes in it

King K.Rool's costume is amazing.

# ? Aug 27, 2015 21:23

ThisIsACoolGuy: Nov 2, 2010; Shaped like a friend

Posting this here too, this has me genuinely excited to see more stuff interact.

# ? Aug 28, 2015 01:09

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Posting this here too, this has me genuinely excited to see more stuff interact.

lol that's awesome, I'm mad just watching it but yeah

# ? Aug 28, 2015 08:07

Sea Lily: Aug 5, 2007; Everything changes, Pit.
Even gods.

The DK level guy made a Wind Waker level and it works pretty well even though you can't do water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfB4ArhZol4

I'm kind of surprised how nice you can make levels look by decorating them a bit

# ? Aug 29, 2015 09:22

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# ? May 29, 2024 00:43

Nolgthorn: Jan 30, 2001; The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense

Kelp Plankton posted:

The DK level guy made a Wind Waker level and it works pretty well even though you can't do water

This guy is doing a lot of "themed" levels focusing on the amiibo, which highlights one of the flaws of the game. He's lacing his levels with tons of whatever amiibo he themed the level to be about. So there are constant power-ups "in case you get hit" there's no challenge there.

# ? Aug 29, 2015 17:38

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