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Does the Dark Knight job quest also require finishing all the dozens of
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Aug 28, 2015 09:33
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| # ? May 31, 2024 16:31 |
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Velthice posted:lmao The 1% is more like games that wear the skin of an mmo but really arent.
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Aug 28, 2015 09:45
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The MMO HMO › Wildstar: The General MMO thread. What is bad is bad, and what is good is also bad
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Aug 28, 2015 11:29
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RottenK posted:lol if you think that you're any better Better? A point you could argue. I don't go around telling people to play x MMO but I do jerk off a lot.
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Aug 28, 2015 11:31
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orcane posted:Does the Dark Knight job quest also require finishing all the dozens of
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Aug 28, 2015 11:32
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re: "Still not getting why this is OK either, other than just because it's traditionally mandatory."Anatharon posted:If I understand you correctly, gating it behind levels means that you can just level to it and do it and not need to do every previous dungeon in the game. No, I meant why is it OK to have content that requires a minimum level at all. This is 2015, developers have figured out how to have content that is level-agnostic. Your motivator to do anything at all in a video game should be "40 hours of fun" not "I have to do 40 hours of scut work to do 1 hour of stuff I don't know whether is fun or not" e: to put it another way this entire concept of requiring you to go kill 5000 kobolds and reach level 99 before you can see the awesome newest freshest ~~END GAME~~ content is why MMOs are a terrible niche that normal people glance at and skip because they like things like, y'know, fun and hygiene Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 12:38
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Xavier434 posted:A progression system where the focal point of the goal is just to look awesome is a lot more fun. Any of the armor or weapons in GW2 that I thought looked really cool and I wanted either required me to grind gold in the most efficient way possible to be able to convert to gems on an ever inflating scale or swipe my Visa card. I personally did not find this more 'fun' than any of the other 'tedious' MMO trappings you hate so much. Different strokes and all that. 
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Aug 28, 2015 13:51
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Anatharon posted:I have no idea how public quests actually work(ed) in that but I think WoW has had something similar since Mists of Pandaria. Public quests were repeatable, ranked, and were little events done in stages. Scenarios were basically instanced public quests but with a smaller group of people and never, ever touched after MoP.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADB8ZuMDFhY Not the best example but you basically killed the guards trying to stop the ritual, then got poo poo to help the ritual, then fought a boss and got bonus poo poo for how much you actually participated. That right there is like one of the first ones you can do, I think the higher level ones were cooler and more involved but I may be misremembering.
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Aug 28, 2015 15:05
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Rylek posted:Any of the armor or weapons in GW2 that I thought looked really cool and I wanted either required me to grind gold in the most efficient way possible to be able to convert to gems on an ever inflating scale or swipe my Visa card. I personally did not find this more 'fun' than any of the other 'tedious' MMO trappings you hate so much. This is a definite bad habit they're getting into. A page ago I said there's a lot to criticize GW2 for, even as I defended it, and I think this is probably the biggest one for me. For the past year and a half or so, the only new weapon or armor skins added to the game that are not in some way tied to the gem store are the Ambrite weapon skins from Dry Top and the Carapace/Luminescent armor skins from Silverwastes. Everything else has either been a direct gem store purchase or acquired with Black Lion Claim Tickets, which you get from opening Black Lion Chests with keys that you can most easily get through the gem store (or by doing really tedious key grinding using alts). The Black Lion Claim Ticket skins are not account bound, so they can be bought and sold, which helps somewhat, but it's disheartening to see just how many cool weapon and armor skins are added to the game that have nothing to do with actually playing the game.
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Aug 28, 2015 15:17
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Harrow posted:This is a definite bad habit they're getting into. A page ago I said there's a lot to criticize GW2 for, even as I defended it, and I think this is probably the biggest one for me. I actually really like GW2 but what you just posted is pretty much why I stopped playing it. I like pretty princess dress up as much as the next manly internet guy, but I just didn't feel I could get the cool stuff without either grinding gold or just paying RL dollars. Maybe I'm just broken but running dungeons/raids in WoW/FF14/SWTOR for cool looking tier sets was more fun for me than grinding for gold in GW2.
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Aug 28, 2015 15:26
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Rylek posted:I actually really like GW2 but what you just posted is pretty much why I stopped playing it. I like pretty princess dress up as much as the next manly internet guy, but I just didn't feel I could get the cool stuff without either grinding gold or just paying RL dollars. Nah, I don't think you're broken. I like running dungeons quite a lot. I think it'd be different in GW2 if the dungeons and fractals were more varied and engaging. Hopefully their announcement about PvE stuff tomorrow (it's raids) will include some information about how they want to address that. I'm hopeful that Heart of Thorns, at launch, will represent a nice, big content drop with lots of new skins that can be earned through actual gameplay. That certainly seems to be what they want to do with the new system for legendary precursors, for example. I have no doubt that most skins added after the HoT release will be tied to the gem store, but at least we'll probably get something new to actually play the game for in the expansion.
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Aug 28, 2015 15:42
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Harrow posted:This is a definite bad habit they're getting into. A page ago I said there's a lot to criticize GW2 for, even as I defended it, and I think this is probably the biggest one for me. Same. I don't mind that they continuously offer us skins through the gem store because that's how they fund the game. I just wish that they would offer new skins that are acquired through means other than just accumulating gold. They just need to mix it up a little more.
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Aug 28, 2015 15:53
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Xavier434 posted:Same. I don't mind that they continuously offer us skins through the gem store because that's how they fund the game. I just wish that they would offer new skins that are acquired through means other than just accumulating gold. They just need to mix it up a little more. Yeah, exactly. They gotta fund the game, obviously. And I'm sure the lack of content recently is because all of their content development is going into Heart of Thorns. But every new set of weapons that goes to Black Lion Claim Tickets instead of being earned through some new actual gameplay just makes me sadder and sadder. I fully expect Heart of Thorns will come with a nice new selection of armor and weapon skins earned through all the new content, so that'll be really nice, but I also expect we'll be right back to claim tickets for 90% of the new skins released after that.
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Aug 28, 2015 16:15
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Flesh Forge posted:re: "Still not getting why this is OK either, other than just because it's traditionally mandatory." So you don't like MMOs. Cool.
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Aug 28, 2015 18:24
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Flesh Forge posted:re: "Still not getting why this is OK either, other than just because it's traditionally mandatory." Ultimately I agree, and in an ideal world most MMOs wouldn't really need level-gated content at all. The whole reason that they do is that their entire business model is built around retaining players for a long time--the longer you stay, the more money they make, either though subscriptions or cash shop purchases. And no matter how much content you have, players would burn right on through it all faster than you ever expect them to unless you gate it somehow, either with levels or by requiring repetition or both. What separates a decent MMO from a lovely one is how much fun the entire process is. This doesn't necessarily apply to all MMOs, of course--anything trying to be the next Ultima Online will almost certainly try to sidestep it, for example, and there are increasingly common attempts by MMOs to have players generate content themselves. I mean, I'm not necessarily defending it as a game design philosophy. Don't get me wrong. I agree that a game like GW2 would be loads better if there were no levels at all and people kept playing for a long time just because there was a lot of fun, varied, and rewarding stuff to do.
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Aug 28, 2015 18:32
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If the content in your game is designed where both minimum and maximum levels don't gate you, it might as well get rid of levels and XP entirely. From there, your game's content could be gated by stats but that would be pretty self defeating. That means the concept of stats and increasing "power" would be need to be completely redesigned from the ground up using some particularly innovative method. I think that this is all very possible as long as the developers create many additional forms of progression where the rewards from one progression path do not result in making many other paths obsolete. Everyone would have their favorite path leading to their favorite reward of course, but the players still need to desire completing most other paths as well or they will quit playing too soon for the game to survive. The hardest part about all of this isn't even the innovative side though. It is convincing those who pay the bills to spend money on such a risky MMO project. Good luck with that.
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Aug 28, 2015 18:39
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Xavier434 posted:To do that, the game might as well get rid of levels and XP entirely. From there, your game's content could be gated by stats but that would be pretty self defeating. That means the concept of stats and increasing "power" would be need to be completely redesigned from the ground up using some particularly innovative method. I think that this is all very possible as long as the developers create many additional forms of progression where the rewards from one progression path do not result in making many other paths obsolete. Everyone would have their favorite path leading to their favorite reward of course, but the players still need to desire completing most other paths as well or they will quit playing too soon for the game to survive. "let's have leveling but without leveling"
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Aug 28, 2015 18:40
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:"let's have leveling but without leveling" Well there needs to be some sense of progression. It just doesn't need to revolve around increasing power through numbers. Call it whatever you want.
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Aug 28, 2015 18:41
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Xavier434 posted:If the content in your game is designed where both minimum and maximum levels don't gate you, it might as well get rid of levels and XP entirely. From there, your game's content could be gated by stats but that would be pretty self defeating. That means the concept of stats and increasing "power" would be need to be completely redesigned from the ground up using some particularly innovative method. I think that this is all very possible as long as the developers create many additional forms of progression where the rewards from one progression path do not result in making many other paths obsolete. Everyone would have their favorite path leading to their favorite reward of course, but the players still need to desire completing most other paths as well or they will quit playing too soon for the game to survive. This is basically what Skyforge does, there's no levels really, but you have to achieve certain stat numbers to progress.
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Aug 28, 2015 20:09
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:So you don't like MMOs. Cool. Holy poo poo I think you might have understood me! LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:"let's have leveling but without leveling" Oh no you didn't never mind.
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Aug 28, 2015 20:42
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Xavier434 posted:If the content in your game is designed where both minimum and maximum levels don't gate you, it might as well get rid of levels and XP entirely. These concepts do not have to be tightly linked at all. Several games have already been done in different genres where you can scale your character to the content or vice versa. It's OK if you can't let go of the treadmill paradigm though I guess 
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Aug 28, 2015 20:44
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Flesh Forge posted:It's OK if you can't let go of the treadmill paradigm though I guess I think you may have misunderstood my position on this matter.
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Aug 28, 2015 20:51
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Asimo posted:The real question will be if they cancel Christmas again this year.
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Aug 28, 2015 21:00
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Xavier434 posted:Well there needs to be some sense of progression. It just doesn't need to revolve around increasing power through numbers. Call it whatever you want. How the hell can you have a "progression system" that has no actual progression?
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Aug 28, 2015 21:07
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Shadowlyger posted:How the hell can you have a "progression system" that has no actual progression? Progression systems do not have to be limited to getting more powerful through stat increases. You can progress towards other goals in MMOs that are not stats. Skins, dyes, and mounts are common examples in current games and I am suggesting that with a little imagination there could be additional forms introduced as well.
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Aug 28, 2015 21:13
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how's the new archon/vyr's? trying to last minute decide between wizard, demon hunter, and witch doctor. the broken lag on the wd set is also weighing on my decision
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Aug 28, 2015 21:22
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Rorus Raz posted:I think they already had most of the Halloween content done before putting everything on hold on account of being a buggy mess, but I have no idea if they had even started Christmas stuff. We had. Gotten a few bugs from the CBT test so far but overall the event's looking okay, which is good. And I have time enough to fix those bugs, thankfully.
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Aug 28, 2015 21:27
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This dumb tangent is reminding me of the idiot who was pissed that Carbine made wildstar an MMO and not yet another Dota-like game from a few threads back.Cyster posted:And I have time enough to fix those bugs, thankfully. How does it feel to be the first Carbine employee to say this ever? 
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Aug 28, 2015 22:08
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Xavier434 posted:I think you may have misunderstood my position on this matter. Maybe so but your position seems to be that this is an innovative concept and hard to implement. It's not innovative, and normalizing stats so that mismatched groups of players with wildly different stages of advancement can be scaled together and have some semblance of balance is not that difficult. A bunch of MMO games have already done this. e: getting the HARD CORE grogs to not shout this notion down is another matter though, granted
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Aug 28, 2015 22:41
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Flesh Forge posted:Maybe so but your position seems to be that this is an innovative concept and hard to implement. It's not innovative, and normalizing stats so that mismatched groups of players with wildly different stages of advancement can be scaled together and have some semblance of balance is not that difficult. A bunch of MMO games have already done this. I remember SWG had a skill-based advancement system. It was pretty poo poo; you mostly just had to grind grind grind you advance the skills up and become remotely competent, and then some skills were just better than others wholesale. I don't think a lot of games go this route mostly because so many players are just SO used to the basic 'higher level = stronger' thing, and the whole concept of raising a statistic up to make it better. It's been a thing in games since who loving knows when. Mostly I think you see poo poo like that in PvP games, but PvE games tend to always have leveling treadmills.
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Aug 28, 2015 22:57
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The thing is these games are supposed to be social, team-oriented games but the strict level progression and resistance to scaling players to content or vice versa either punishes teaming or prevents it entirely. It is a 1990s era game design concept and it's what keeps MMOs as a tiny lovely niche.
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Aug 28, 2015 22:59
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UO did it first and did it best. If you didn't experience the golden age of UO, then I'm sorry, you will never have had a truly good time. e: playing MMOs, that is, which are bad.
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Aug 28, 2015 23:02
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City of Heroes is the best MMO, since its thread is still active. All of the socializing without having to play an MMO
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Aug 29, 2015 00:38
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Rorus Raz posted:City of Heroes is the best MMO, since its thread is still active. *pauses for a moment, hands still clutching poo poo to be flung. then drops poo poo to the ground, crosses arms and nods acceptingly*
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Aug 29, 2015 01:02
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Obsessiveness is really nothing to be proud of.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:02
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Deki posted:Obsessiveness is really nothing to be proud of. Velthice posted:*pauses for a moment, hands still clutching poo poo to be flung. then drops poo poo to the ground, crosses arms and nods acceptingly*
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Aug 29, 2015 01:06
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Flesh Forge posted:Maybe so but your position seems to be that this is an innovative concept and hard to implement. It's not innovative, and normalizing stats so that mismatched groups of players with wildly different stages of advancement can be scaled together and have some semblance of balance is not that difficult. A bunch of MMO games have already done this. I think his point was that there's not really much of a reason to have the numbers get bigger in the first place, but no MMO seems to be willing to make that step. I agree, for what it's worth--"numbers get bigger" progression is less fun to me than "get more options and cool skills" progression or even "get cooler-looking stuff" progression. GW2 is the most permissive MMO I'm aware of when it comes to level scaling. I'm pretty sure fractals, the current "hardcore" PvE content, will scale you up to 80, and a good portion of the other PvE content is pre-level 80 so everyone gets scaled down for it. In arena PvP, everyone's on purely equal footing--you pick your stats from the same options as everyone else and it's great. It's not perfect in PvE and frankly I don't think the game strictly needs levels to begin with, but it's better than most.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:14
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Harrow posted:I think his point was that there's not really much of a reason to have the numbers get bigger in the first place, but no MMO seems to be willing to make that step. I agree, for what it's worth--"numbers get bigger" progression is less fun to me than "get more options and cool skills" progression or even "get cooler-looking stuff" progression. Yes but neither of those approaches to character design would preclude being scaled to match other more- or less-developed characters. I don't disagree with the idea that maybe levels are bad, I just don't think it applies too strongly to the idea of making content that is level-agnostic (or whatever is used to gauge advancement instead of levels).
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Aug 29, 2015 04:31
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Are people going to talk about this bad game in this even worse thread, how many pages do I have to go back to read about this bad game.
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Aug 29, 2015 04:52
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| # ? May 31, 2024 16:31 |
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Sperging hard about level locked content in mmos is like bitching that racing games are all about going fast. If you don't like it there are other genres of games that might fit your tastes better.
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Aug 29, 2015 05:00
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