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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Sorry, should have specified. Israel doesn't allow development and growth in Palestine. Nor should any nation strengthen the power of the state-department listed terrorist organization Hamas via promotion of economic growth in territories under the reign of Hamas' terror. Question is, how do you ensure economic growth in Palestine without strengthening Hamas? The answer with the most evidentiary support which I know of is to increase the rate of capital accumulation in Palestinian territories with appropriate governance via increasing the rate at which capital is remitted to individuals in these territories from Palestinian migrants.
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Aug 28, 2015 19:24
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My Imaginary GF posted:Nor should any nation strengthen the power of the state-department listed terrorist organization Hamas via promotion of economic growth in territories under the reign of Hamas' terror. The only economic growth that happens in Palestine is despite Israel. Economic growth also decreases the power/popularity of extremist groups. Quite suspicious that Israel actively works to impede progress that would decrease the power of extremists in Palestine. Unless they had some sort of political reason for keeping an open air prison full of scapegoats right next to them. It isn't like Palestine and harm Israel in any significant way.
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Aug 28, 2015 19:28
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My Imaginary GF posted:Nor should any nation strengthen the power of the state-department listed terrorist organization Hamas via promotion of economic growth in territories under the reign of Hamas' terror. Based on the Geneva convention and numerous other articles of international military law, Israel is obligated to look after and see to the wellbeing of Palestinians in the Occupied territories. Not doing so is committing a war crime. Stop supporting war crimes.
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Aug 28, 2015 19:30
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Under the South African cultural boycott, would a similar film have been banned? Or was that only about not going to South Africa?
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Aug 28, 2015 19:36
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:The only economic growth that happens in Palestine is despite Israel. Economic growth also decreases the power/popularity of extremist groups. Quite suspicious that Israel actively works to impede progress that would decrease the power of extremists in Palestine. Unless they had some sort of political reason for keeping an open air prison full of scapegoats right next to them. It isn't like Palestine and harm Israel in any significant way. Yeah considering how MIGF has basically shifted his tone from that of a super-right wing american type to a conciliatory labor-voting israeli type I'm going to conclude the most terrifying thing to MIGF would be the rise of middle/upper class palestinians who vote for whatever the arab version of meretz would happen to be.
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Aug 28, 2015 19:55
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PACBI, the closest thing to BDS leadership there is, published this clarification regarding their position on the push to remove Matisayhu from the lineup of Rototom Sunsplash. They're basically saying that this boycott is outside of the BDS guidelines (which are about institutions, not individuals), but is a "common-sense" boycott which they explain as having to do with Matisyahu's own previous expressions, and which they think is therefore justified. To quote them: 'PACBI is convinced that the pressure campaign waged by human rights activists in Spain to cancel this bigoted artist’s performance at this progressive festival is a well justified “common sense” boycott campaign, even though it falls outside the realm of the BDS institutional boycott guidelines. We are further convinced that this was a campaign guided by universal principles of human rights and justice and opposed to a performer’s record of incitement to racial hatred, violence and war crimes. Contrary to the lies spread by Israel’s influential propaganda machine in the mainstream western media, this was absolutely unrelated to Matisyahu’s identity. Any artist in a similar situation, irrespective of his/her identity, who has consistently expressed racist views and defended, as well as helped to whitewash, gross violations of international law should expect to face outrage and common sense calls for boycott by people of conscience everywhere, as a reasonable measure of accountability.' So they support it but do not take any responsibility for it.
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Aug 28, 2015 20:34
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Ultramega posted:Yeah considering how MIGF has basically shifted his tone from that of a super-right wing american type to a conciliatory labor-voting israeli type You think he has? Not long ago he was saying that denying Palestinians the right to self-determination was an integral part of the Jewish faith and that therefore the two-state solution was antisemitic. If that's conciliatory to you, I wonder what you think is hateful.
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Aug 28, 2015 20:40
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Xandu posted:Yes but banning Israeli art for not directly engaging with the occupation is hardly a good solution. "Boycott" means different things to different people, and I don't think BDS has declared that the economic boycott should only be applied to industries that are directly funded by the Israeli state. Maybe the cultural boycott is different, but I don't think it's so clear-cut that we can say there is only one proper way to do a boycott. Badger of Basra posted:Under the South African cultural boycott, would a similar film have been banned? Or was that only about not going to South Africa? According to the first Google result for "South Africa cultural boycott", not only were South African arts and films often barred from events, but South African teams were barred from many international sporting events, including the Olympics. In addition, many artists and media organizations boycotted South Africa by refusing to allow their works to be sold or shown there. Most infamously, American musician Paul Simon was widely accused of violating the cultural boycott on South Africa when he traveled there to record the album Graceland with South African musicians, although it sold well in spite of heavy protests by groups like Artists Against Apartheid and the ANC. quote:In the 1960s, the Anti-Apartheid Movement world-wide began to campaign for cultural boycotts of apartheid South Africa. Artists were requested not to present or let their works be hosted in South Africa. In 1963, 45 British writers put their signatures to an affirmation approving of the boycott, and, in 1964, American actor Marlon Brando called for a similar affirmation for films. In 1965, the Writers' Guild of Great Britain called for a proscription on the sending of films to South Africa. Over sixty American artists signed a statement against apartheid and against professional links with the state. The presentation of some South African plays in Britain and America was also vetoed. After the arrival of television in South Africa in 1975, the British Actors Union, Equity, boycotted the service, and no British program concerning its associates could be sold to South Africa. Besides, Israel itself is no stranger to boycotting the works of artists who are considered to have had racist views or have supported racist governments in some way. The works of certain German composers have been so widely boycotted in Israel that they are considered taboo and effectively (but not actually) banned, despite the fact that the regime they were associated with has fallen long ago, and in many cases they had a tenuous connection in the first place (for example, Wagner died in the 19th century, Hitler just happened to really like his music). It's a long history that hasn't been covered in much depth, so let's let the Telegraph give us a few highlights. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalmusic/8659676/Israels-history-of-musical-controversy.html quote:Since the Second World War there have been various failed attempts by Israeli musicians to play the works of Wagner and Strauss.
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Aug 28, 2015 20:48
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Main Paineframe posted:"Boycott" means different things to different people, and I don't think BDS has declared that the economic boycott should only be applied to industries that are directly funded by the Israeli state. Maybe the cultural boycott is different, but I don't think it's so clear-cut that we can say there is only one proper way to do a boycott. Of course, but I don't think it means every boycott is above reproach, either. In this case, an independently funded documentary about disabled children seems like a poor target to me. I also think boycotting Israeli academics (many of whom have done quite critical work) or Israeli athletes is problematic. I am totally okay with encouraging boycotts of people travelling to Israel, though, and I'm not sure if that makes me inconsistent. Likewise, I also think this is stupid, though it's not like Wagner is a contemporary. quote:Since its founding in 1948, Israel has observed an informal ban on Wagner’s music because of its use in Nazi propaganda before and during World War II. edit: I also find this argument, which is to essentially ask what makes Israel so uniquely evil as to justify a boycott only there, to be quite persuasive quote:The Oslo case “clearly shows why the academic/cultural boycott of Israel is so misguided,” said Maurice Samuels, a professor of French at Yale and director of the university’s Program for the Study of Antisemitism. “It targets the very people who are most likely to oppose Israel’s policies on the West Bank. This filmmaker is being singled out because of the actions of his government, not because of any view he holds or action he personally has taken. Imagine the consequences if all Americans were held responsible for the bad things our government does.” I can't find a good response to it either. Xandu fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 21:25
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Cat Mattress posted:You think he has? Not long ago he was saying that denying Palestinians the right to self-determination was an integral part of the Jewish faith and that therefore the two-state solution was antisemitic. If that's conciliatory to you, I wonder what you think is hateful. Before you go any further with this I just want to clarify that I'm talking solely about the tone he struck on like...this page. I've sadly read this entire thread head to heel and for the record he did admit the whole denying palestinians their rights thing being integral to 'certain' strains of judaism but he was like everything else super wishy-washy about it and lol that we're quibbling over which persona a very well-known troll has adopted now or then. Ultramega fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 23:55
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Personally, i'd be fine with an America boycott, and I believe a lot of young americans feel enough guilt/apathy towards their country that they wouldnt be shocked or angry about one either, but I understand that it would be difficult for those neutral or unconcerned towards the boycott subject. Ultimately, I don't personally believe that an effective boycott can be restrained to financials and israeli's unwilling to hide their views on Palestine. A large part of the SA apartheid success involved a total boycott of all aspects of South Africa; even afrikaner artists with no pro-apartheid views found themselves made pariahs, and it was this cultural severance that put additional stress on the choice between racial inequality or global participation. I doubt Matisyahu is some ultra-zionist bent on palestinian domination, and its a granted that he likely has been influenced by cultural/religious leaders around him towards an indifference towards palestinian suffering, but the statements he's made are still unacceptable and worthy of exclusion. On a different aspect, while the Israeli film about disabled children is certainly noble, it is still acceptable to find itself on the recieving end of a cultural boycott; if you allow exceptions to your boycott based on neutrality towards the boycott subject, then you are no longer upholding a boycott, just rewarding indifference towards suffering. It's in this aspect that BDS is exceptionally empathetic compared to past successful boycotts, in that it is willing to make these exceptions. Of course, you are free to argue against the merits of a cultural boycott.
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Aug 28, 2015 23:56
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Neurolimal posted:Personally, i'd be fine with an America boycott, and I believe a lot of young americans feel enough guilt/apathy towards their country that they wouldnt be shocked or angry about one either, but I understand that it would be difficult for those neutral or unconcerned towards the boycott subject. Well, at least according to PACBI, this is not the nature of their cultural boycott, directed as it is against institutions, not individuals, as they made clear even when supporting this specific exclusion of Matisyahu, and as Omar Barghouti made abundantly clear in relation to the Israeli film that is being boycotted simply for being done by Israelis and not referring to themes deemed appropriate for an Israeli film by the organizers. Are you suggesting that BDS is not going far enough?
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Aug 29, 2015 00:00
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Well, at least according to PACBI, this is not the nature of their cultural boycott, directed as it is against institutions, not individuals, as they made clear even when supporting this specific exclusion of Matisyahu, and as Omar Barghouti made abundantly clear in relation to the Israeli film that is being boycotted simply for being done by Israelis and not referring to themes deemed appropriate for an Israeli film by the organizers. Are you suggesting that BDS is not going far enough? I'm suggesting that effective cultural boycotts require tough actions worthy of justified scrutiny. Its not easy to boycott a heavily sympathetic film about disabled children, but like I said, allowing exceptions to a cultural boycott based on percieved neutrality to the subject leads yo an ineffective method to exclude a country from global participation. This is to say that the israeli film about disabled children isnt bigoted, zionist, racist, etc., but that a strong boycott sees unfortunate (but not precisely unneccessary) casualties as it grows in effectiveness I completely emphasize with both the filmmakers and BDS's condemning of the films removal, but at the same time I worry about the impact of the only real avenue of global resistance to israel's apartheid.
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Aug 29, 2015 00:06
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Neurolimal posted:I'm suggesting that effective cultural boycotts require tough actions worthy of justified scrutiny. Its not easy to boycott a heavily sympathetic film about disabled children, but like I said, allowing exceptions to a cultural boycott based on percieved neutrality to the subject leads yo an ineffective method to exclude a country from global participation. This isn't answering the question. As Omar Barghouti, founding member of PACBI, the leading authority on what BDS is about, noted, boycotting this film is not a sanctioned action by BDS; it doesn't even seem to live up to "common-sense" boycott standards. Are you saying that BDS is not strict enough in their boycott policy?
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Aug 29, 2015 00:08
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Absurd Alhazred posted:This isn't answering the question. As Omar Barghouti, founding member of PACBI, the leading authority on what BDS is about, noted, boycotting this film is not a sanctioned action by BDS; it doesn't even seem to live up to "common-sense" boycott standards. Are you saying that BDS is not strict enough in their boycott policy? I added an additional paragraph, but to TLDR it; it's a hard judgement call, and I respect Osmar's decision, I simply have worries. A movement dedicated to excluding Israel should exclude the film, but that it's hard for a functioning human to say "no, your film about disabled children is not allowed here", and it requires practical weighing of the effectiveness of a strict boycott versus the negative PR of excluding cases like this. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 00:10
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Neurolimal posted:I added an additional paragraph, but to TLDR it; it's a hard judgement call, and I respect Osmar's decision, I simply have worries. Maybe it's hard because it's wrong. And maybe ostracizing people because you disapprove of the policies of the country they live in is wrong. Maybe there are moral standards that are higher and wider than you being focused on the bad policies of this one Middle-Eastern country and how to most effectively show your disdain of it. Maybe this is time to reflect about the unhealthy fixation you have with punishing every Israeli for Israel's horrible sins. A teachable moment, if you will. Just a thought. 
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Aug 29, 2015 00:18
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Maybe it's hard because it's wrong. And maybe ostracizing people because you disapprove of the policies of the country they live in is wrong. Maybe there are moral standards that are higher and wider than you being focused on the bad policies of this one Middle-Eastern country and how to most effectively show your disdain of it. I don't believe all israelis are responsible for Israel's actions nor the environment they are raised in that encourages segregation. I simply hold the belief that the ultimate goal of a cultural boycott is to pressure both government and civilians of a country to make a choice between enjoying the passive benefits of a segregated and privileged society, or participation in global cultural events.
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Aug 29, 2015 00:27
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Neurolimal posted:I don't believe all israelis are responsible for Israel's actions nor the environment they are raised in that encourages segregation. I simply hold the belief that the ultimate goal of a cultural boycott is to pressure both government and civilians of a country to make a choice between enjoying the passive benefits of a segregated and privileged society, or participation in global cultural events. So they're not responsible, but you are going to punish them for a choice they didn't make, anyway. Fortunately, there is much in US law to defend people from persecution according to national origin, so they are safe from your policies.
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Aug 29, 2015 00:30
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Neurolimal posted:Personally, i'd be fine with an America boycott, and I believe a lot of young americans feel enough guilt/apathy towards their country that they wouldnt be shocked or angry about one either, but I understand that it would be difficult for those neutral or unconcerned towards the boycott subject. Question is, are they boycotting muslim israelis, or are they boycotting solely Jewish Israelis and Jewish institutions? It would appear BDS only boycots Jews. Gee, I wonder why Its their culture of acceptance and embrasure of antisemitism, as seen with the Matisyahu SNAFU
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Aug 29, 2015 00:36
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So they're not responsible, but you are going to punish them for a choice they didn't make, anyway. Fortunately, there is much in US law to defend people from persecution according to national origin, so they are safe from your policies. Would you say afrikaners from South Africa were unfairly punished for policies the majority of whom had no hand in crafting nor actively supporting? Because the methods used in the boycott of SA are the basis for my opinion on the Israel boycott. I hold no hatred of either group, nor do I consider them directly responsible for their government's policies. I also hold no hatred or responsibility towards members of eithers who left their country (and have sympathy for members of both who may face/faced persecution for their previous countries' actions while integrating).
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Aug 29, 2015 00:42
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Maybe it's hard because it's wrong. And maybe ostracizing people because you disapprove of the policies of the country they live in is wrong. Maybe there are moral standards that are higher and wider than you being focused on the bad policies of this one Middle-Eastern country and how to most effectively show your disdain of it. So do you have a problem with the isolation that ended apartheid in South Africa? If rendering nazi Germany an economic and social pariah would have prevented their rise, would you still be opposed to "ostracizing people because you disapprove of the policies of the country they live in?" Too, why are Israeli feelings worth more than Palestinian lives?
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Aug 29, 2015 00:51
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Neurolimal posted:Would you say afrikaners from South Africa were unfairly punished for policies the majority of whom had no hand in crafting nor actively supporting? Because the methods used in the boycott of SA are the basis for my opinion on the Israel boycott. PACBI seem to think that those methods are inappropriate. Let me quote their argument: 'This approach of targeting institutions and not individuals differs from the cultural boycott movement against apartheid South Africa, which targeted individuals and institutions alike. This is not because individual Israeli artists or academics tend to be more progressive or opposed to injustice than the rest of society, as often mistakenly assumed or falsely argued without any evidence, but because we are opposed on principle to political testing and “blacklisting,” both forms of McCarthyism that the BDS movement categorically rejects.' Why is your hatred more extreme than that of a Palestinian organization dedicated to sanction it until it adheres to international law and stops oppressing Palestinians? What are your principles? ETA: I ask you the same thing, uninterrupted.
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Aug 29, 2015 00:52
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Absurd Alhazred posted:PACBI seem to think that those methods are inappropriate. Let me quote their argument: He's given his reason for it, that he thinks it exerts more pressure. Phrasing this as "Why do you hate Israelis in an even more extreme way that those Palestinians" is pretty dishonest as well as implicitly being a pretty lovely attitude to the BDS movement by implicitly painting them as fairly extreme as opposed to more extreme. It's a "Why do you hit your wife" type argument.
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Aug 29, 2015 00:59
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Neurolimal posted:Would you say afrikaners from South Africa were unfairly punished for policies the majority of whom had no hand in crafting nor actively supporting? Because the methods used in the boycott of SA are the basis for my opinion on the Israel boycott. I do not understand how one can support lifting Iranian sanctions while also supporting BDS, if not for a peculiar dislike of the Jewish character of the Israeli state. Explain to me, please, how you can reconciling the belief that lifting sanctions will change Iranian policy implementation for the better, while also believing that BDS' widespread adoptation will change Israel policy implementation for the better.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:02
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team overhead smash posted:He's given his reason for it, that he thinks it exerts more pressure. Phrasing this as "Why do you hate Israelis in an even more extreme way that those Palestinians" is pretty dishonest as well as implicitly being a pretty lovely attitude to the BDS movement by implicitly painting them as fairly extreme as opposed to more extreme. It's a "Why do you hit your wife" type argument. All right. Let me rephrase this: are you two, Neurolimal and uninterrupted, accusing the closest thing there is to leadership of BDS of being too soft on Israel?
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Aug 29, 2015 01:02
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Why is your hatred more extreme than that of a Palestinian organization dedicated to sanction it until it adheres to international law and stops oppressing Palestinians? What are your principles? Settle down, Beavis. I don't think Neurolimal has displayed any hatred in expressing his opinion on this, and regardless of whether or not I agree with him I see his point.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:05
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SyHopeful posted:Settle down, Beavis. I don't think Neurolimal has displayed any hatred in expressing his opinion on this, and regardless of whether or not I agree with him I see his point. So you are also accusing PACBI of being too soft on Israel?
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Aug 29, 2015 01:07
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So you are also accusing PACBI of being too soft on Israel? I don't think they commented on it at all. Broken Mind fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 01:14
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Absurd Alhazred posted:All right. Let me rephrase this: are you two, Neurolimal and uninterrupted, accusing the closest thing there is to leadership of BDS of being too soft on Israel? Like I said: I do not think it is an easy situation. Knowledge of past successful boycotts suggest supporting a unilateral boycott of Israel's cultural contributions. My humanity sympathises and respects the BDS leaderships' choice, and my sense of practicality suggests that the negative PR in boycotting such an immensely human film would cause the decision to be even less black-and-white. I understand that you have taken extreme offense at what I have said. It's unfortunate as I feel you've been exceptionally reasonable with questioning specific anti-israel sentiments and topics within this thread, but I cant callously disregard your connection with Israel nor your family who would be harmed by a wholesale boycott. I can only hope that we can discuss on better terms on future topics.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:14
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So you are also accusing PACBI of being too soft on Israel? I'm saying that Neurolimal isn't displaying any hatred here, he explictly said he has no hate, and I said I understand his point of view. Don't put words in my mouth.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:15
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Neurolimal posted:Like I said: I do not think it is an easy situation. Knowledge of past successful boycotts suggest supporting a unilateral boycott of Israel's cultural contributions. My humanity sympathises and respects the BDS leaderships' choice, and my sense of practicality suggests that the negative PR in boycotting such an immensely human film would cause the decision to be even less black-and-white. Do you have any evidence that suggests that the personal cultural boycott was critical to the success of the anti-Apartheid movement?
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Aug 29, 2015 01:20
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Neurolimal posted:Like I said: I do not think it is an easy situation. Knowledge of past successful boycotts suggest supporting a unilateral boycott of Israel's cultural contributions. My humanity sympathises and respects the BDS leaderships' choice, and my sense of practicality suggests that the negative PR in boycotting such an immensely human film would cause the decision to be even less black-and-white. Boycotts have only had mixed results when imposed at the state level, though. In economics, there's plenty of lit out there on how, say, regulating maximum hours of foreign content or minimum hours of local content to be played on radio stations will, as, from just off the top of my head, in the cases of Kenya, Canada, Tanzania, Rwanda, Uganda, Tunisia, Libya, Zimbabwe, and Portugual, produce increased rates of local growth through increasing employment of local artists and all the attached infrastructure required to record, distribute, and transmit intellectual property from community small producers. Translation: Kenya mandating a national boycott of Nigerian playtime over the airwaves results in Kenyan growth. How, then, do you propose to impose barriers upon Jewish artists which do not result in inceased protection for Israeli small-scale producers? Absurd Alhazred posted:Do you have any evidence that suggests that the personal cultural boycott was critical to the success of the anti-Apartheid movement? AA, we both know there is none; SA's apartheid, just like governance in Zaire, ended as both the result of America's victory over communism in the cold war, Clinton's isolationism, and the widespread sense of hope in all corners of south african society for the possibility of peaceful and non-racist transition as could be brought about by a Mandela administration. Boycotts had jack poo poo all to do with the broad respect for Nelson Mandela in all corners of respectable SA society My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 01:28
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SyHopeful posted:I'm saying that Neurolimal isn't displaying any hatred here, he explictly said he has no hate, and I said I understand his point of view. Don't put words in my mouth. He can say all he wants but cultural boycotts are loving absurd and, as PACBI said, straight up McCarthyism. You can say it's not hate, but it's a stone's throw away.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:30
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The South African circumstances were markedly different especially in regards to film, some South African films were shown abroad even with the boycott in place but these where usually those that had been banned by the draconian South African film censorship board for their political content - South Africa never had an exactly booming film industry but the idea of circulating material that had been censored to fall in line with Apartheid was considered repulsive by a lot of people.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:43
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Absurd Alhazred posted:PACBI seem to think that those methods are inappropriate. Let me quote their argument: The principles are simple. Near-complete suffocating isolation ended apartheid, the same is likely to work against Israel and their occupation of Palestine. If Israelis have a problem with it, they should force their government to change their policies. I fail to see how this is hatred, if anything it's simply voting with your wallet. Why do you think people should be required to fund the murderous Israeli regime?
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Aug 29, 2015 01:55
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uninterrupted posted:The principles are simple. Near-complete suffocating isolation ended apartheid, the same is likely to work against Israel and their occupation of Palestine. If Israelis have a problem with it, they should force their government to change their policies. I fail to see how this is hatred, if anything it's simply voting with your wallet. If this was a policy that caused you to have your livelihood hurt despite you having no public support for the policies of America would you go 'oh, fair, yea, I should have voted harder'?
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Aug 29, 2015 01:57
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uninterrupted posted:The principles are simple. Near-complete suffocating isolation ended apartheid, the same is likely to work against Israel and their occupation of Palestine. If Israelis have a problem with it, they should force their government to change their policies. I fail to see how this is hatred, if anything it's simply voting with your wallet. No individual Israeli can single-handedly change Israeli policy, and the film festival did not even ask the film-maker what party he voted for. quote:Why do you think people should be required to fund the murderous Israeli regime? In what way is refraining from barring individuals who are Israeli citizens from taking part in an event "fund[ing] the murderous Israeli regime"?
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Aug 29, 2015 02:01
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Absurd Alhazred posted:No individual Israeli can single-handedly change Israeli policy, and the film festival did not even ask the film-maker what party he voted for. Of course no one israeli can, that's why BDS does not go far enough in blocking all israelis from participation in the global community until they force the government to stop the palestinian occupation. Again. why does marginal israeli discomfort trump palestinian lives? Oh yeah, it's because you don't think palestinians are real people.
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Aug 29, 2015 03:10
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uninterrupted posted:Of course no one israeli can, that's why BDS does not go far enough in blocking all israelis from participation in the global community until they force the government to stop the palestinian occupation. Or they could just cleave to the government much more strongly, as targeting individual Israelis, mostly Jews, is clear evidence of the world's antisemitism, and things simply continue to get worse for Palestinians. That seems much more likely to me. It seems BDS, lead by Palestinians, disagrees with you, by the way, so regarding this: quote:Again. why does marginal israeli discomfort trump palestinian lives? Oh yeah, it's because you don't think palestinians are real people. I think it is you who needs to ask whether Palestinians are real people to you. Because real Palestinians think that what you're talking about is McCarthyism.
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Aug 29, 2015 03:15
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uninterrupted posted:Of course no one israeli can, that's why BDS does not go far enough in blocking all israelis from participation in the global community until they force the government to stop the palestinian occupation. What does this even mean? Literally force Israelis to stay in Israel? Bar them from entering other countries? Silence them if they speak outside Israel? What are they supposed to do, start a loving coup? Why are you holding left wing pro-Palestinian Israelis as guilty as far right zionists?
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Aug 29, 2015 03:17
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