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RosaParksOfDip posted:Except he wrote the first Dresden Files book while he was enrolled in a writing class and he wrote Furies pretty early on in his professional career. Most people assumed he would have grown by now. And I don't remember Furies being that bad. The series got worse as it progressed. Codex Alera peaked by book 4 and Butcher had a lot of trouble wrapping up the plot lines and left a lot of development half-finished so you feel how rushed some parts of 5 & 6 are, but I wouldn't say that they got 'worse' as they progressed, just that it felt a little unsatisfying as far as endings go.
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Aug 29, 2015 02:48
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RosaParksOfDip posted:Except he wrote the first Dresden Files book while he was enrolled in a writing class and he wrote Furies pretty early on in his professional career. Most people assumed he would have grown by now. And I don't remember Furies being that bad. The series got worse as it progressed.
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Aug 29, 2015 02:57
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There's supposed to be some more samples coming out this week; it stumbled at the gate, but i guess you can't judge an entire book from one short chapter.Mars4523 posted:I thought Furies of Calderon were the worst of the lot. Books 3 and 4 were the series' peak, but the last two books weren't so much bad as they were disappointing. Like someone else said, it may be that Butcher can't divide his attention. He's been working on this one for three years, and the last Dresden files book was also a step down in terms of quality. I still enjoyed it, but it's the first one in years that I haven't reread.
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Aug 29, 2015 17:10
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RosaParksOfDip posted:Except he wrote the first Dresden Files book while he was enrolled in a writing class and he wrote Furies pretty early on in his professional career. Most people assumed he would have grown by now. And I don't remember Furies being that bad. The series got worse as it progressed. Did you just not read Captain's Fury?
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Aug 30, 2015 00:00
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If it helps the old fashioned way of speaking is because they are aristocracy and family insists on niceties. On the other hand, there are talking cats soooo...
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Aug 30, 2015 12:16
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Kea posted:If it helps the old fashioned way of speaking is because they are aristocracy and family insists on niceties. It's not that the dialogue is old-timey. (I can't use Regency or Georgian or Victorian because that would require the pastiche be good enough to actually identify what specific era he was aiming for.) It's just that writing that kind of dialogue convincingly takes stylistic skill and lots of reading of that kind of novel and Jim is only good at writing quippy Spiderman banter in his own voice. The result is really bad.
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Aug 30, 2015 12:28
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Megazver posted:It's not that the dialogue is old-timey. (I can't use Regency or Georgian or Victorian because that would require the pastiche be good enough to actually identify what specific era he was aiming for.) It's just that writing that kind of dialogue convincingly takes stylistic skill and lots of reading of that kind of novel and Jim is only good at writing quippy Spiderman banter in his own voice. The result is really bad. I wouldn't worry overmuch, I imagine the rest of the book will focus on the airship captain from the back of the book. Edit: also talking cats Kea fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 13:21
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Rygar201 posted:Did you just not read Captain's Fury? I read the series quite a while back now. Also I realized I should have been more specific when i said "Furies" I was referring to the first book. edit: I just remember everything past the major reveal regarding the protagonist being mostly downhill quality-wise.
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Aug 31, 2015 23:28
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Codex fell apart at the end because the Vord weren't half as interesting as all the politicking that made up the earlier books. It was also super rushed. I expect roughly the same thing to happen when Butcher gets to the end of the Dresden Files. Jim has strengths as a writer, but paying off a long running series is really loving hard to do well. To the point that is almost never happens even.
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Sep 1, 2015 01:47
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The Vord were really interesting when we didn't see any of them. Shortly after they start appearing, they became really lame. The Vord Queen also goes from "interesting, mysterious villain" to "what the hell?" as soon as she shows up in any capacity, too. Oh, you're Kerrigan and these are your Zerg.
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Sep 1, 2015 07:38
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OneTwentySix posted:The Vord were really interesting when we didn't see any of them. Shortly after they start appearing, they became really lame. The Vord Queen also goes from "interesting, mysterious villain" to "what the hell?" as soon as she shows up in any capacity, too. Oh, you're Kerrigan and these are your Zerg. The Vord jumped the shark for me when you find them attacking the last wolf civilization. At that point I realized I was getting high-fantasy starship troopers instead of "
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Sep 1, 2015 13:05
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I haven't read Codex Alera beyond the first book, by how is high-fantasy starship troopers a bad thing? How is starship troopers in combination with anything a bad thing? (or are we talking actual Heinlein starship troopers instead of Verhoeven starship troopers)
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Sep 1, 2015 18:54
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It's not bad, the final two books are just a let down from the first four.
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Sep 1, 2015 19:03
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Chapter one of Aeronauts Windlass http://www.jim-butcher.com/books/cinder-spires/the-aeronauts-windlass-1/aeronauts-windlass-chapter-one Haven't read it yet but I hope it's better than the prologue. I'm OK with a character named "Captain Grimm".
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Sep 1, 2015 19:36
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General Emergency posted:Chapter one of Aeronauts Windlass http://www.jim-butcher.com/books/cinder-spires/the-aeronauts-windlass-1/aeronauts-windlass-chapter-one I think captain Grimm is an OK character, the talking cats are the bit that I think some people won't like.
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Sep 1, 2015 19:57
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It's a measure of how I respect Butcher's ability to entertain that I'll even read this. Steampunk is the worst. I was entertained by the Codex Alera, even though didn't think it was "good." We'll keep fingers crossed.
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Sep 1, 2015 20:02
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torgeaux posted:It's a measure of how I respect Butcher's ability to entertain that I'll even read this. Steampunk is the worst. I was entertained by the Codex Alera, even though didn't think it was "good." We'll keep fingers crossed. Frankly it's more magic than steam punk, everything is powered by crystals, everyone lives in spires built millennia before by the makers, airships are powered by crystals and magic which most people can't touch but everyone can use the tools like the gauntlet from the prologue. No steam mentioned really.
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Sep 1, 2015 20:05
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I thought Grimm's Chapter 1 was even worse than the Prologue.
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Sep 1, 2015 20:10
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Goggles mentioned in the first sentence. It sure is steam punk! Not that "The Aeronaut's Windlass" isn't already parodical as a title. "Quickly, set the ether engines to full power, extend the dynamo and charge the voltaics!" *grimaces at tightness of corset* "'Ware the phlogston throwers and chymical bombs! We must persevere on our mission. For the Queen!"
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Sep 1, 2015 20:32
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I spotted one "wolfish grin."
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Sep 1, 2015 20:33
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Mars4523 posted:I thought Grimm's Chapter 1 was even worse than the Prologue. Same here. Only thing I'm finding funny is the running cover art joke about the protagonist looking nothing/very little like the person depicted there.
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Sep 1, 2015 21:21
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Mars4523 posted:I thought Grimm's Chapter 1 was even worse than the Prologue. Chapter 2 is Grimm again, chapter three is a new character. On the plus side the goggles are give a reason for existing,
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Sep 1, 2015 21:29
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Magres posted:I haven't read Codex Alera beyond the first book, by how is high-fantasy starship troopers a bad thing? How is starship troopers in combination with anything a bad thing? I didn't say it was a bad thing, it's just way less cool than the Metal as All Hell Wolf Continent would have been.
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Sep 1, 2015 23:17
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OneTwentySix posted:The Vord were really interesting when we didn't see any of them. Shortly after they start appearing, they became really lame. The Vord Queen also goes from "interesting, mysterious villain" to "what the hell?" as soon as she shows up in any capacity, too. Oh, you're Kerrigan and these are your Zerg. While I generally agree about the Vord Queen, the scene where she tried to play happy families using slaves and kidnapped victims and killer mantises was actually kind of viscerally affecting. It reminded me of the scene towards the end of Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle, where Jack Shaftoe reflects that true hell is being perpetually subjected to bad theater at gun-point; there's something terrifyingly relatable about having your life in the hands of someone simultaneously murderous and incompetent.
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Sep 1, 2015 23:43
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Kea posted:Frankly it's more magic than steam punk, everything is powered by crystals, everyone lives in spires built millennia before by the makers, airships are powered by crystals and magic which most people can't touch but everyone can use the tools like the gauntlet from the prologue. No steam mentioned really. Sounds very Dungeons and Dragons. The Eberron universe.
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Sep 2, 2015 04:31
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RosaParksOfDip posted:Sounds very Dungeons and Dragons. The Eberron universe. Kind of, the crystals are the most common thing, small ones giving off basic light, big ones powering ships and such, the surface is basically no mans s land due to dangerous creatures that roam there. Electricity is a known thing, certain crystals give it off but the power crystals themselves are very expensive since they have to be grown in vats over decades or centuries. Smaller crystals are far more common like the ones in the gauntlet things. Most everyday people use small light crystals maybe but mostly candles and such and many people spend their entire lives within the spires.
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Sep 2, 2015 04:39
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Huh, I think it sounds more like a mash up of Jack Aubrey , Treasure Planet and The Aristocats.
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Sep 2, 2015 08:02
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Kea posted:Kind of, the crystals are the most common thing, small ones giving off basic light, big ones powering ships and such, the surface is basically no mans s land due to dangerous creatures that roam there. Electricity is a known thing, certain crystals give it off but the power crystals themselves are very expensive since they have to be grown in vats over decades or centuries. Smaller crystals are far more common like the ones in the gauntlet things. Most everyday people use small light crystals maybe but mostly candles and such and many people spend their entire lives within the spires. Sounds kinda like the Stormlight novels with the gems that give off power and are used for everyday things.
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Sep 2, 2015 08:42
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Wait, "wollypog"?! Is that really a word you want to be referencing, Jim?
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Sep 2, 2015 19:32
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What word are you thinking of? I haven't read the samples so I don't have context, but my first association is a spoonerized pollywog, and a pollywog is just a tadpole.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:56
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Presumably he means this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwog
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Sep 2, 2015 19:59
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Khizan posted:What word are you thinking of? Same. What's the context that makes you think it's Nemesis Of Moles posted:Presumably he means this
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Sep 2, 2015 21:56
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Illuyankas posted:Wait, "wollypog"?! Is that really a word you want to be referencing, Jim? It's straight out of Storm Front.
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Sep 3, 2015 03:03
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Not excited so far based on on the Prologue/Chapter 1. I cringed a little when I heard it was gonna be steampunk, but had high hopes. That said, Dresden files took a few books to really get going so there is hope.
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Sep 3, 2015 04:44
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cheese posted:Not excited so far based on on the Prologue/Chapter 1. I cringed a little when I heard it was gonna be steampunk, Yeah, I'm not exactly excited for this series either. The only really good steampunk authors I'm aware of generally are a lot darker than Butcher has been willing to get -- China Mieville's criminals sentenced to magical body modification, or Michael Swanwyck's human children seized by elves to work in an iron factory in Iron Dragon's Daughter. All too often it's just "fantasy, but with GOGGLES" and it just makes me despair. There's no point in going victorian-era if you spend all your time riding around in airships and hansom cabs and never set foot in an opium den or a workhouse.
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Sep 3, 2015 04:53
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cheese posted:Not excited so far based on on the Prologue/Chapter 1. I cringed a little when I heard it was gonna be steampunk, but had high hopes. That said, Dresden files took a few books to really get going so there is hope. I know I've mentioned it a few times already but I'm fairly sure the fact there's talking cats and such might be a make or break moment for some people.
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Sep 3, 2015 09:26
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They don't have to be Dickensian - The Clockwork Century is a fun "fantasy , but with goggles" series that turned out well. http://theclockworkcentury.com/?page_id=2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boneshaker_%28novel%29 Wait , never mind, it's been a few years since I read them and I forgot how bleak the whole setting is.... Yeah, you're probably on to something there.
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Sep 3, 2015 09:37
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For me, Steampunk begins and ends with the Difference Engine.
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Sep 3, 2015 09:46
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The Burton and Swinburne series by Mark Hodder. Start to end 100% wacky pulpy adventures in a I'm not sure if I'd call it good but I found it an extremely enjoyable read, probably because it only starts as steampunk and ends, well, elsewhere. Cherie Priest I like a lot but she's got this inexplicable obsession with zombies.
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Sep 3, 2015 11:47
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Kea posted:I know I've mentioned it a few times already but I'm fairly sure the fact there's talking cats and such might be a make or break moment for some people. The protagonist is literally a talking cat. Furries will love that series, but I'm not buying it.
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Sep 3, 2015 12:22
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