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Wamdoodle posted:Looks like Terminus uploaded a video on Gun Feedback. Hope he doesn't mind me linking it. I don't mind, thank you very much. I'm really curious to see how people feel about opinion pieces like this. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rufx8hmgiaoaazh/psychic_bulletsnhand.wad - As for the mod, it's an oooold ooooold ooooold mod, one I picked up somewhere on the forum yeeeeears ago and the author never went anywhere with it. That being said, it's kind of fun. It's not a full weapon replacement, unfortunately, only replacing the fists and the shotgun, but the shotgun is REALLY drat nice.
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Aug 29, 2015 23:42
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Shlomo Palestein posted:Wouldn't preventing bunnyhopping essentially just require a check to see if the player has jumped in X milliseconds, where X is the time to jump and hit the ground + some arbitrary period? He wanted to block all the various originally unintended, but in later games explicitly kept movement weirdness. In order to do that, you need to completely recode the movement physics, because the existing ones generate the behavior automatically. Which is why they aren't present in many other games.
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Aug 29, 2015 23:59
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TerminusEst13 posted:I don't mind, thank you very much. I'm really curious to see how people feel about opinion pieces like this. Oh hey, thanks Terminus! Too bad it didn't go anywhere else. I liked your video. It's always good to get a view from a modder's perspective. I, and others I presume, would watch anything else you put out  Also, all hail awesome videogame shotguns 
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Aug 30, 2015 00:03
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Nintendo Kid posted:It's not just adding an option, so much as it is having to code a whole separate physics engine and bugtest it, in order to prevent that stuff from working. This is true, but also irrelevant to the point. We're talking about hypothetical scenarios where it'd be feasible to add such a feature, not whether effort should be expended to do so.
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Aug 30, 2015 00:05
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Segmentation Fault posted:This is true, but also irrelevant to the point. We're talking about hypothetical scenarios where it'd be feasible to add such a feature, not whether effort should be expended to do so. There is no scenario where it would be feasible, it'd be an entirely different game. It's like demanding that some server software be able to host Half-Life and Unreal Tournament in the same server executable.
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Aug 30, 2015 00:18
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Is there a good cycles setting for Quake in DOSBox at 320x240? I got rid of the CRT filter and the framerate has jumped dramatically (50-70+) but the game starts to speed up and behave erratically when the framerate exceeds 70. (70 is the maximum nVidia Shadowplay's FPS counter will display)
Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 00:59
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Woolie Wool posted:Quake's palette is so limited because they tried to capture the dreary atmosphere of Dark Souls 15 years early with only 256 colors to work with. EZQuake is intended for the esports people though. I do agree with you to some degree on the movement exploits, but I'm not sure how best to do it... I mean, you want people to learn them, but throwing them in the deep end is a terrible way to do it, and I don't think you can reasonably introduce them one at a time and still have the game fun during the curve-up. Of course if you're willing to break compatibility and market the poo poo out of it, what people (other than the toxic stuck-in-the-middle assholes) really want is movement options, not tricks, so a movement engine that gave you just as many choices as Quake's but didn't force you to abuse it to get there would be amazing. Keiya fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 01:55
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Woolie Wool posted:Played a bit of Quake 1.06 (installed off an OEM CD that I got with a joystick in 1998) for DOS with CRT phosphor emulation. You get my respect if you made it through the game on hard or nightmare with it looking like this: My uncle still uses his pc from 1997, hardware and all. It's a glorious clicky keyboard with a glorious fat lovely monitor that somehow has a better, more pristine picture than any of the displays I've bought in the last fifteen years. The audio is poor (it's literally speakers that are attached to the sides of the monitor) but the tinny lovely sounds somehow add to the charm. Quake runs like a dream on it, it's only 320x240 mind you but somehow it looks amazing. Gaming hipsters would cum if that made it to modern platforms. Every time I load it up whenever I visit him, I smile like a little kid.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:57
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The best thing to do is to simply buy a late 90s/early 2000s laptop (and you don't need to have a working screen on it, working battery either) and simply hook it up to a VGA CRT and plug in ps/2 or usb keyboard and mouse. You can get these things pretty cheap, especially if the battery is shot and/or the screen doesn't work. You tend to want later models if you really need 3D acceleration better than say, a S3 Trio 3D.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:02
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Keiya posted:EZQuake is intended for the esports people though. It's a completely different movement style and player base, but UT4 actually has a fantastic set of tutorials to slowly teach you the advanced movement and weapon use. Quake Live should add something like that, if it's even viable.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:06
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Elliotw2 posted:It's a completely different movement style and player base, but UT4 actually has a fantastic set of tutorials to slowly teach you the advanced movement and weapon use. Quake Live should add something like that, if it's even viable. It had an entry exam of sorts the last time I played it.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:12
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Even if you had a time machine, you'd probably have a lot of trouble finding a time when people played Quake without movement exploits because even before bunnyhopping became widely used, people had been zigzagging since 1997. Quake and movement exploits practically go hand in hand, and this "golden era" where nobody used them and everyone played "normally" is about as mythical as the era of FPS where nobody played with a mouse. EDIT: I guess I should say, I'm not against having the option. More options are always fine, because they're optional. But I don't think it would have much merit or see a lot of use. arcsig fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 02:25
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Keiya posted:EZQuake is intended for the esports people though. Yeah really calling it a "Quakeworld client" would kind of be a misnomer, it would have to be its own standard and would probably need an organization behind it to do marketing and outreach. (also I failed to realize that dedicated non-QW multiplayer Quake clients even exist and that ProQuake is regular Quake and not QW. Unfortunately about 4 people total seemed to actually be playing ProQuake when I checked the server list.) Will UT4 always be using the awful UT3 assets?
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Aug 30, 2015 02:31
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Also it's worth noting that any new movement physics you introduce are probably just going to generate new classes of tricks, given like a year of competitive play.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:36
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Hell, even slow running 'n floaty jumping Halo had sword cancelling.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:46
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how can i extract the revenant punching sounds from the doom 2 wad?
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Aug 30, 2015 02:46
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i liked quake's color scheme. it seemed like more of a stylistic choice than it is in other games, where you can tell the devs only did it for 'realism'. meanwhile, quake isn't even remotely realistic.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:47
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As I've said before, I didn't understand the color scheme until I played in software mode. With only 256 colors available, it was the only way to achieve the tone they were going for.FirstPersonShitter posted:how can i extract the revenant punching sounds from the doom 2 wad? Open doom2.wad in SLADE 3, search for DSSKEPCH, right-click and export.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:50
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:i liked quake's color scheme. it seemed like more of a stylistic choice than it is in other games, where you can tell the devs only did it for 'realism'. meanwhile, quake isn't even remotely realistic. I actually like it too, I think it manages to work really well.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:52
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The color scheme can be more versatile than the ID1 texture set lets on. Play Februus Depth by czg or Rapture by Tronyn for an example of what Quake can do with different texture sets (Rapture uses Hexen II and Daikatana textures, I think Februus Depth's textures are new).
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Aug 30, 2015 02:54
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Woolie Wool posted:As I've said before, I didn't understand the color scheme until I played in software mode. With only 256 colors available, it was the only way to achieve the tone they were going for. Yeah, I seem to recall (very vaguely) that they knew it was a bit monochrome, but with only 256 colours to play with at any one time, and while still trying to get away from the more cartoon:y look of Doom, there was little else they could do and did their best to make it part of the overall aesthetic instead. Really, I'd rather describe Quake as deliberately monochrome than just “brown”, because compared to the brown monochrome that has plagued the “realistic look” of gaming for a couple of generations, it almost comes out as vibrant at this point.
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Aug 30, 2015 03:03
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Woolie Wool posted:Played a bit of Quake 1.06 (installed off an OEM CD that I got with a joystick in 1998) for DOS with CRT phosphor emulation. You get my respect if you made it through the game on hard or nightmare with it looking like this: I played PC games on CRTs for like two decades and it never looked like this. To this day I'm convinced that thick dark scanlines or visible pixel grids are an invention of emulators. Edit: Even the lovely early 90s TV I play my NES on looks beautiful compared to this emulated CRT poo poo especially after I had a go at calibrating it, not sure if you could ever see lines between pixels on CRTs without jamming your face right against it BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 03:08
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BattleMaster posted:I played PC games on CRTs for like two decades and it never looked like this. To this day I'm convinced that thick dark scanlines or visible pixel grids are an invention of emulators. Nah, visible pixel grids/thick dark scanlines are real... they're just only on rather large CRTs of low native resolution and a certain construction style. Like if you played PC games on a 25 inch CRT TV in SD resolution, with it placed on your desk the way a normal monitor would be so its only a few feet from your face, you would see that effect, but it's never present on any sort of higher res monitor. You might also see it with certain 80s dedicated computer monitors for various home computers with fixed resolutions, that were again larger than usual.
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Aug 30, 2015 03:15
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BattleMaster posted:I played PC games on CRTs for like two decades and it never looked like this. To this day I'm convinced that thick dark scanlines or visible pixel grids are an invention of emulators. At most, it resembles the not-actually-compression technique of early FMV games to recording at half-resolution and playing it back interlaced, both to save on storage and to improve playback performance. Hell, wasn't the whole point of CRT pixel grids that they weren't on an actual grid, which made them blend together and not look pixel:y? e: ^^^ That makes sense, I suppose. I just never saw it once I stopped using Hercules monitors.
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Aug 30, 2015 03:18
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Whether your CRT had a staggered or straight pixel grid depended on which brand and model you had. But once you got above like 72 PPI, it started getting really hard to to see the individual pixels without deliberately leaning in, so it was kinda moot. For instance, 1024x768 at 17 inch viewable is 75 ppi, 800x600 at 14 inch viewable is 71.5 PPI or so so close enough. Come to think of it, where the grid would be really visible in displays was older low res/low quality LCDs, like many laptops had in the 90s, though still it was more of a thing where you saw it if you were leaning on in.
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Aug 30, 2015 03:29
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Tippis posted:Really, I'd rather describe Quake as deliberately monochrome than just “brown”, because compared to the brown monochrome that has plagued the “realistic look” of gaming for a couple of generations, it almost comes out as vibrant at this point. that's the funny part. for as much poo poo people give quake for the color scheme, i'd take it any day over any generic milsim shooter with washed-out shades of yellow and brown.
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Aug 30, 2015 03:33
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I'd just like to state that it has been an incredibly tedious process replacing models and getting poo poo JUST so in my HL loadout. 
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Aug 30, 2015 03:40
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:that's the funny part. for as much poo poo people give quake for the color scheme, i'd take it any day over any generic milsim shooter with washed-out shades of yellow and brown. I must say, I hadn't really thought about it that much before and mainly waved it off as yes, obviously, it's an old game so whatever (since key selling points of Unreal and Q2 was that they got past that palette limitation). Then I sat down and watched that 100%-done-quick demo linked a few pages back, and aside from noticing how fun — also nauseating — it looks at 2560×1440, I also noticed that among the levels that flashed by, a fair number of them were monochrome red or monochrome blue or… most colours actually. It was more that each level offered little variety, not that the game as a whole did. Yes, it took a while in each episode to get to those other colour designs, and all the menu graphics were brown, but it's not nearly as bad as its reputation would have it. Come to think of it, when and how did the whole next-gen brown-filter thing start?
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Aug 30, 2015 03:56
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If you play Quake 2 in software mode you'll notice right away why they went with a limited palette for Quake 1--Quake 2's color banding is quite harsh and sometimes downright ugly in 8-bit color. Quake 1 had a lot of subtle shades that blended into one another, Quake 2's palette color ranges clash. I've never played Unreal in software but I think Unreal's software renderer was (a) 16-bit color and not 8-bit and (b) total misery so it doesn't count. I've heard an explanation that broshooters' use of brown comes from the technology of the PS360 era being unable to handle vibrantly colored environments without looking unnatural due to lighting limitations, but I don't buy it--Far Cry looked fine with its bright jungle levels in 2004. I think it mostly comes from film--digital color grading has been the rage ever since Steven Spielberg desaturated the visuals in Saving Private Ryan (which every WW2 shooter from Medal of Honor to RTCW to Call of Duty 1-3 immediately copied), combine that with a "brown/tan = desert" mindset and lazy art design and there you go. The level set Rapture displaying a bit of Quake's color versatility:    I particularly like the contrast of the gray stone and pinkish reliefs in the third screenshot. You can actually create an enormous variety of earth tones in Quake by dithering pixels from two or more color ranges. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 04:14
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Woolie Wool posted:If you play Quake 2 in software mode you'll notice right away why they went with a limited palette for Quake 1--Quake 2's color banding is quite harsh and sometimes downright ugly in 8-bit color. Quake 1 had a lot of subtle shades that blended into one another, Quake 2's palette color ranges clash. I've never played Unreal in software but I think Unreal's software renderer was (a) 16-bit color and not 8-bit and (b) total misery so it doesn't count. What UnrealEngine's software mode had above all was dithering and higher-bit textures to build that data from. I suppose it could be described as a total misery at the time, since the whole thing was meant to be run with at least some kind of acceleration. In hindsight, though, and with more powerful machines to actually drive that mode, UE's software rendering is hugely impressive. These days, with the right settings, software mode is a fair representation of what Glide looked like at the time.
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Aug 30, 2015 04:46
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I'll played some more black mesa source, and I'll lay some more black mesa  on the thread when I can stop typing "UNCEASING TORRENT OF EXCREMENT POURED DOWN THE THROAT OF THE PLAYER" over and over again.The ambush at the end of Questionable Ethics kicked my rear end 8 times in a row, and Surface Tension was not an enjoyable experience. Marine Murder Mayhem might be a more accurate title for that particular chapter.
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Aug 30, 2015 04:59
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From what I understand it was indeed misery for anyone trying to run it at the time because the CPU power required far exceeded what most computers at the time were capable of. If you had a computer powerful enough to run software mode smoothly it probably already had a 3D accelerator. After playing through all of E1 in DOS Quake v1.06, I must say I'm impressed with how well it controls. It seems common for DOS games to have horrendously bad-feeling, sluggish controls, even compared to the same game ported to Windows. Quake 1.06 doesn't feel quite as sharp as super8 or QuakeSpasm (maybe due to the uneven framerate, which drifted wildly as I played with CPU set at 160000 cycles) but it plays well. It's a bit harder to play it this way than on a source port. Sometimes I can't seem to dodge with the right now immediacy I have in super8. However, the total lack of intepolation aids in reading and predicting enemy movements (I can't turn lerping off in super8 without tanking the framerate). Also I thought overbrights looked a lot brighter in 1.06 than in super8. I took screenshots of the same scene in both engines and...they are!  Quake v1.06 for DOS  Qbism super8 I think I'll drop Qbism a line about this. This is a bug. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 04:59
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Woolie Wool posted:From what I understand it was indeed misery for anyone trying to run it at the time because the CPU power required far exceeded what most computers at the time were capable of. If you had a computer powerful enough to run software mode smoothly it probably already had a 3D accelerator. Oh absolutely, yes. I just remember it as the game where a friend of mine was absolutely bowled over by the (accelerated) visuals. A couple of years later, when computers that could run software mode were more common, I showed him what it could do, if you really pushed it… at which point he was even more bowled over than the first time. 
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Aug 30, 2015 05:08
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Klaus88 posted:I'll played some more black mesa source, and I'll lay some more black mesa  I'm sure it only gets worse. 
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Aug 30, 2015 05:15
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On the subject of those weird movement tricks Quake introduced - I don't really mind their existence, but I kinda wish they were easier to work with. Like, in TF2, if you want to horizontal rocket jump worth a drat, you basically have to jump sideways everywhere, because pressing forward immediately drops your forward momentum. That never made a whole lot of sense to me - it'd make more sense for horizontal rocket jumping to work regardless of which direction you're moving or facing, so everyone can do it and the Soldier can fly around all crazy-like. I suppose that'd introduce some sort of balance issues, but eh. (This also might just be me, a scrub, whining that he can't figure out how to horizontal rocket jump in TF2 worth a drat.)Tippis posted:Really, I'd rather describe Quake as deliberately monochrome than just “brown”, because compared to the brown monochrome that has plagued the “realistic look” of gaming for a couple of generations, it almost comes out as vibrant at this point. (...I think that's how it works, anyway.)
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Aug 30, 2015 05:39
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It's still pretty ugly.
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Aug 30, 2015 05:48
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Counterpoint: It's not and its gorgeous and everything is perfect in Quake.
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Aug 30, 2015 05:51
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that anyone would use these screenshots
as examples of color versatility is a really good unintentional joke
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Aug 30, 2015 05:59
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I do kinda wish someone would take a swing at Quake's art style using modern-day graphical technology, because it was a really cool mishmash of gothic/tech/interdimensional horror stuff.
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Aug 30, 2015 06:03
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IronicDongz posted:that anyone would use these screenshots Your pathetic attempts to attack one of PC gaming's greatest classics is the joke here. Quake is good and anyone who does not think Quake is good is wrong.
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Aug 30, 2015 06:26
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