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I've never done a Level 1 Game but I think I know what you need the Needle Fork for and I wish you luck sir/ma'am/your holiness. I've seen it happen only once in my time
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Aug 30, 2015 02:49
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I honestly have no idea what you need the Needle Fork for and I look forward to finding out.
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Aug 30, 2015 05:36
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Maybe I'm being dense. If the Coral Ring absorbs Thunder, then will it help you help you kill the impossible enemies on top of Gizamaluke's Groto?
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Aug 30, 2015 05:56
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zfleeman posted:Maybe I'm being dense. If the Coral Ring absorbs Thunder, then will it help you help you kill the impossible enemies on top of Gizamaluke's Groto? Those would give experience.
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Aug 30, 2015 06:05
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zfleeman posted:Maybe I'm being dense. If the Coral Ring absorbs Thunder, then will it help you help you kill the impossible enemies on top of Gizamaluke's Groto? It blocks Thundaga, at least.
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Aug 30, 2015 06:13
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Does anyone know or have a resource for the little sprites which pop up over enemies when you deal damage? I'm specifically looking for the "Miss!" one when you, y'know, miss. From any of the PSX-era FFs, not just IX.
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Aug 30, 2015 06:14
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morallyobjected posted:I honestly have no idea what you need the Needle Fork for and I look forward to finding out. You can wait but I couldn't so I looked it up. That's literally all I'm tagging. Needle fork is for the added status petrify. You need it to skip the mandatory battles in the grotto
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Aug 30, 2015 06:23
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zfleeman posted:Maybe I'm being dense. If the Coral Ring absorbs Thunder, then will it help you Goodness no, it's for surviving far more mundane Thunders. Because otherwise they'd kill characters. Turning -100 HP into +100 HP is a very good thing for an add-on to do, when its competition for the equipment slot is "insignificant stat boost" and "teaches Flee".
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Aug 30, 2015 06:40
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Goodness no, it's for surviving far more mundane Thunders. Because otherwise they'd kill characters. Turning -100 HP into +100 HP is a very good thing for an add-on to do, when its competition for the equipment slot is "insignificant stat boost" and "teaches Flee". Lancer also gives Freya's MP a use and it hits harder than a regular attack to boot. The MP damage really is negligible at best, even late game. Nonono, that's what one of the OTHER party members is for when they learn said ability to damage MP.
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Aug 30, 2015 07:23
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Psion posted:Does anyone know or have a resource for the little sprites which pop up over enemies when you deal damage? I'm specifically looking for the "Miss!" one when you, y'know, miss. From any of the PSX-era FFs, not just IX. here's FF8's. Also has hitt and trigger and such.
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Aug 30, 2015 07:29
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Gnoman posted:Meanwhile the entire plot of FFX is driven by Yuna with Tidus little more than a tag-along until late in the game, and XII's entire plot is based around Ashe and her decisions about how and if to reclaim her throne. The only FF female lead from this era that really fits the "no agency" concept is Rinoa. Yuna's problem is that she has to be the perfect Japanese woman at all times. The only thing she's allowed to be "strong willed" about is not doing anything for herself. Which might work if the writing realized how messed up her backstory is. Her "agency" comes pushing the idea of martyrdom on an orphan girl from a very young age. It's was Braska who had the agency since he chose to go down that path for his own reasons, while Yuna just follows her father's footsteps because she has been conditioned to think that's what you do. But the writing doesn't, so instead it just celebrates her character motivations as her just being such a noble selfless person. Which is funny because the game is supposed to have an anti-traditionalist message, while idealizing the most fundamental traditionalist belief.
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Aug 30, 2015 11:50
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Your Dead Gay Son posted:You can wait but I couldn't so I looked it up. That's literally all I'm tagging. Needle fork is for the added status petrify. You need it to skip the mandatory battles in the grotto ...Oh dear. And apparently there's a 10% chance it triggers? Oh man.
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Aug 30, 2015 12:35
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BioMe posted:Yuna's problem is that she has to be the perfect Japanese woman at all times. The only thing she's allowed to be "strong willed" about is not doing anything for herself. The writing doesn't? The party intentionally deceives the player character about the true nature of the quest. When he finds out, he reacts strongly in the negative and they acknowledge that it was wrong to hide it. Ultimately he convinces them to find a new path and that's how the cycle is broken. As for Yuna, she is definitely conditioned by her surroundings but she becomes a summoner under protest of her friends and after weighing the possibilities she chooses to sidestep the duties she took on. The "traditionalists" in this game are all part of an evil conspiracy that is run by zombies lol. From the very first scene at Besaid where Tidus' stupid sports symbol is shown to be an important religious symbol, their beliefs are less than idealized.
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Aug 30, 2015 13:19
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Watching this makes me realize how much of this game I've forgotten. It's easily my favorite Final Fantasy game, because of the way the characters are written. They're all so interesting and, usually, likable. The story is so much more well-crafted as well. You get to see and do so much by this point, and the story is still unfolding. I do remember enough to know we're just getting started. These were the reasons that got me to play though to the end, where 7 and 8 left me cold at the third disk.
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Aug 30, 2015 14:11
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AdmiralViscen posted:The writing doesn't? The party intentionally deceives the player character about the true nature of the quest. When he finds out, he reacts strongly in the negative and they acknowledge that it was wrong to hide it. Ultimately he convinces them to find a new path and that's how the cycle is broken. No, Yuna only backs down because she'd have to sacrifice other people to finish her pilgrimage. There's no character development and self-realization that her life is worth more than playing a role in farce to distract the masses. She just can't throw away someone else's life with hers because that goes against her prime directive. And making "do as your father did before you" a heroic ideal is the basis of traditionalism. OTHER parts of the story are against traditionalism, yes. That's why it's so dissonant how straight they play Yuna's character.
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Aug 30, 2015 14:56
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KataraniSword posted:Notice that Steiner doesn't actually start panicking and acting like anything's wrong until he sees everybody else go down for the count. So either way regardless of if he had been poisoned or not, that is really hilariously in-line with his character. Also someone noted that Freya really DOES try to stand up which is an awesome detail of how badass she is. AdmiralViscen posted:The writing doesn't? The party intentionally deceives the player character about the true nature of the quest. When he finds out, he reacts strongly in the negative and they acknowledge that it was wrong to hide it. Ultimately he convinces them to find a new path and that's how the cycle is broken. Then it turns out a little different, he freaks out, he tries to DEFY the traditions and drat the world for simply allowing it to be rather than actually try to change things. I don't like the Sphere Grids, I don't like playing Blitzball despite the fact it LOOKS cool for cinematic purposes. But I absolutely love how much the writing tricks you and even though most people just go "well Tidus is so loving stupid" that's because it's intentional, his ignorance is the only thing driving you forwards because you think "well I'm stuck in the future I might as well do something oh hey nice lady can I hang out with you?" Concerning Yuna's small party and Tidus, I like the fact he's an idiot reflecting against that and my only real gripe with the game's writing, is there's not enough conflict a.k.a moments where they basically bitchslap him going "shut the gently caress up Tidus oh my Yaevon you are so disrespectful right now sheeeeeesh." Unless I am forgetting a lot of it and I may well be.
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Aug 30, 2015 15:03
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AdmiralViscen posted:The writing doesn't? The party intentionally deceives the player character about the true nature of the quest. When he finds out, he reacts strongly in the negative and they acknowledge that it was wrong to hide it. Ultimately he convinces them to find a new path and that's how the cycle is broken. The "traditionalists" are actually just your standard "JRPG Catholic Church". The critique of "traditionalism" is actually just anti-clericalism. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 15:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The "traditionalists" are actually just your standard "JRPG Catholic Church". Actually, they look a lot more like Buddhists. Their temples have a very Tibetan aesthetic.
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Aug 30, 2015 16:37
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FinalGamer posted:Concerning Yuna's small party and Tidus, I like the fact he's an idiot reflecting against that and my only real gripe with the game's writing, is there's not enough conflict a.k.a moments where they basically bitchslap him going "shut the gently caress up Tidus oh my Yaevon you are so disrespectful right now sheeeeeesh." Unless I am forgetting a lot of it and I may well be. There's a point where he says something about punching Seymour and Yuna's just like  .Aside from that, everyone aside from Wakka seems to realize Seymour is full of poo poo or a weirdo.
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Aug 30, 2015 16:50
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BioMe posted:No, Yuna only backs down because she'd have to sacrifice other people to finish her pilgrimage. There's no character development and self-realization that her life is worth more than playing a role in farce to distract the masses. She just can't throw away someone else's life with hers because that goes against her prime directive. That's not the entire reason, although that certainly helped by forcing her to hesitate. It was hearing from the lady in charge herself that this whole thing was little more than an empty gesture to placate the masses. That the Calm was never going to really succeed, its true function was to keep everyone at least willing to face another day by dangling a false hope in front of them that maybe this time it could work for real. It's interesting that Yuna starts out saying "don't say it isn't worth it," when she had to explain to Tidus about how Sin comes back. You'd expect her to still see the value then in a temporary Calm, even if it's never going to stick. But the teachings said all this gibberish about how Sin was a punishment, and would someday go away once they had compete atonement or whatever. It was learning that so much of the whole basis of their religion was a lie that really made Yuna take the stand she did. She wouldn't have minded giving her life for an only temporary Calm, if that was just the best she could do once she rolled the dice. And I think she maybe could have gone along with involving one other fully willing person after all, if she'd believed they had a chance to truly save everyone together. Just going on the pilgrimage with her in the first place is endangering her guardian's lives, remember. There have only been a few successful summoners in a very long time. But to learn that the GM wasn't even going to give her a "roll to defeat Sin for real" in the first place, that made the whole thing a sham. She wouldn't just be sacrificing one other life, she'd be continuing to encourage all the other summoners and guardians to go on sacrificing their lives in the future, all for a lie. It's still not a development that makes her any less self-sacrificing, but it has a bit more depth than just "welp, gotta sacrifice one more person who isn't me, so nope call the whole thing off." She is still completely ready to sacrifice herself for others, but doesn't want to give her life for something false. It's also an interesting contrast how Yuna's father was able to go on with the Final Summoning regardless, and how Auron's objections back then were ultimately about not wanting Braska to die, as an individual. The whole religion being a lie thing just made the loss of Braska that much more unacceptable to him. So yeah, I also really like the story of FFX and find Yuna to be a very interesting character even if she does have very unhealthy levels of martyrdom.
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Aug 30, 2015 18:30
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MonsieurChoc posted:Actually, they look a lot more like Buddhists. Their temples have a very Tibetan aesthetic. Emphasis on "look". When you get past the aesthetic, the game is very much about the Medieval cult of Death and anticlerical readings of history. The Rise and Fall of FInal Fantasy posted:There are a whole lot of things for which I can criticize Final Fantasy X's writers, but not knowing their history isn't one of them. Spira's ecology might resemble Okinawa, but the politics and culture are all Middle Age Europe. The church controls everything and actively suppresses learning and progress to hold onto its power. The people are miserable and dogmatic. Everyone's dropping dead from forces nobody can explain (in real-life Europe it was the plague, in imaginary Spira it's Sin), and the church has everybody convinced that it's divine punishment. Then there's the Al Bhed, who've got to be analogous to the "Saracens" that Christian Europe feared and hated (despite the Islamic world's being far more advanced in just about every way possible). Why some JRPGs are so enamoured with anticlericalism I can't say. One might surmise that it's indirectly pillorying the bureaucratic and political corruption of modern Japan. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 18:55
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BioMe posted:Yuna's problem is that she has to be the perfect Japanese woman at all times. The only thing she's allowed to be "strong willed" about is not doing anything for herself.
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Aug 30, 2015 19:24
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Or.... It's because Japan is, still actually, an majorly aethiest/agnostic country without a major theocratic system that's overpowering in it's politics. Just about every country aside from a few can see how major religions have strangleholds on their countries. Japan just likes to show that these systems are inherently corrupt since religion is almost always self interested and not about the masses. Which is why EVIL CHURCH is such a common narrative trope there.
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Aug 30, 2015 19:31
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cdyoung posted:Or.... Surprisingly, a large number of J-horror tropes are based around Shinto, with evil rituals in isolated villages and whatnot.
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Aug 30, 2015 19:51
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In regards to the Level 1 playthrough, so will Quina be getting a lot of use between early game petrification and Frog Drops? Break on Vivi seems pretty far off, and I think there are more mandatory experience giving encounters in Clerya. Does Chocobo stuff gets you other weapons to petrify earlier? I'm pretty curious how this will all turn out but I don't want to spoil myself with the guide.
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Aug 30, 2015 21:01
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MonsieurChoc posted:Surprisingly, a large number of J-horror tropes are based around Shinto, with evil rituals in isolated villages and whatnot. well, have you seen the plethora of demons, monsters and evil gods in Shintoism, Taoism and Buddhism?
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Aug 30, 2015 21:38
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:There's a point where he says something about punching Seymour and Yuna's just like Then he actually calms down and sort of realises once all the real hypocrisy comes out and admits how much of a douche he's been blindly following an organised religion without any sense of questioning or self-thinking.
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Aug 30, 2015 21:58
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Endorph posted:I'm not sure how you play FFX and come away thinking like this. The entire arc of the game is about her doing stuff for herself, and how hosed up her backstory is. Not to mention X-2, where she gets an entire speech about how stupid martyrdom is. The game never delves on what her motivations beyond that she's dutiful and her dad did the same thing (or if it did please do point it out because I can't remember that at all). It's not questioned if this is maybe not a positive character trait in the context of a suicide mission. In fact the whole Gagazet part of the game after you learn about what the pilgrimage means is all about how amazing she is for not wavering, not about what her personal reasons are. I mean take Braska - he wanted to leave a better world to his daughter, but also defeating Sin was his way to beat the society that had ostracized him. That's agency, "oh he was just such a dutiful guy" is not. Also Yuna flat out tells Yunalesca she still would have sacrificed herself if she didn't have to sacrifice a guardian too, if I remember right. That's not really what Yuna characterization hinges on tough. Until the end of the game the only real character motivation you can infer is that she's been brainwashed by the priests who raised her into thinking the pilgrimage is something she just has to do (or if you believe the writers, she just such a strong woman she has absolutely no self-regard, which is what I call a loving cop out). That's not a character of great agency. I mean I guess you are thinking of her trying to bring Seymour to justice, which was probably the only time she showed some real initiative yeah. But it really does not help to make a character's one own plan action really, really stupid. I have hard time believing that subplot was about more than creating a flimsy excuse for triangle-drama. Because, you know, the story is actually about Tidus, so that's what mattered. BioMe fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 22:05
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cdyoung posted:Or....
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Aug 30, 2015 22:25
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FinalGamer posted:Mainly because Wakka is the Spira equivalent of a redneck Methodist who absolutely loving devotes himself to Yaevon and despises the Al-Bhed for being heathens, to the point that firstly he hates the poo poo out of Rikku, secondly tries to backpedal the poo poo out of the fact he finds out Yuna is actually half Al-Bhed, and THIRDLY when the Yaevonites go to loving war and bomb the poo poo out of Al-Bhed's homeland he loving LOVES IT and just cracks "like pretty fireworks, ja?!" like the most racist-rear end fuckwit you ever did see. In the case of that last one, I think he was trying to cheer Rikku up in the dumbest way possible. That being said, Wakka calming down and his subsequent character arc in X-2 were pretty great moments for him. He even ends up giving his son an Al Bhed name.
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Aug 30, 2015 23:22
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BioMe posted:Also Yuna flat out tells Yunalesca she still would have sacrificed herself if she didn't have to sacrifice a guardian too, if I remember right. That's not really what Yuna characterization hinges on tough. Until the end of the game the only real character motivation you can infer is that she's been brainwashed by the priests who raised her into thinking the pilgrimage is something she just has to do (or if you believe the writers, she just such a strong woman she has absolutely no self-regard, which is what I call a loving cop out). That's not a character of great agency.
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Aug 30, 2015 23:44
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BioMe posted:The game never delves on what her motivations beyond that she's dutiful and her dad did the same thing (or if it did please do point it out because I can't remember that at all). It's not questioned if this is maybe not a positive character trait in the context of a suicide mission. In fact the whole Gagazet part of the game after you learn about what the pilgrimage means is all about how amazing she is for not wavering, not about what her personal reasons are. I mean take Braska - he wanted to leave a better world to his daughter, but also defeating Sin was his way to beat the society that had ostracized him. That's agency, "oh he was just such a dutiful guy" is not. Since this whole sidetrack started from comparing how well different female characters are portrayed, I gotta say it's kind of unfair to assume Yuna's dad had great noble self-motivated reasons for sacrificing himself, and showed great agency in his choice to do so, but for some reason Yuna didn't. I think her motivation was showing through when she was explaining to Tidus about the Calm. How people can sleep soundly without fear, and how precious that is. Their world is terrible and insane and literally anyone would want to find a way to make it stop. I think having her dad be the High Summoner didn't make her think it was expected of her to do it, (especially since we see the people around her in Besaid tried to talk her out of it, or were very sad to see her go), rather it made her fully believe that she was capable of it. And since she believed she could do it, she wanted to do something rather than sit back and watch others (like Chappu) risk their lives instead. And hell, whether you go on a pilgrimage or join the Crusaders or not, just being alive at all when Sin's back in business is already pretty scary to begin with.
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Aug 31, 2015 01:37
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Read the latest update, and nope, my love for this game hasn't died in the least. It only grows more.  And I didn't notice that Freya tried to stand back up, or that Vivi's hat caught the table and held him up some, that's a neat little detail. As is all the extra dialog, which, admittedly, I didn't know existed 'cause hey, plot happened, I wanted to keep it going. Nice to see what I've missed, so thanks.  In a way, I applaud Dagger for wanting to save her mother. Admittedly, my first playthrough, I just thought she went about it in a stupid way, especially as there was no guarantee that Brahne would even listen to her. Now it's more like "Okay, she's come for help, and she'll get it, but they're insisting on treating her like she doesn't know what she's doing, (which is slightly true) and that's not what she wants, she's taking matters into her own hands." If nothing else, she's certainly proactive. In regards to the low level game: Orange Fluffy Sheep, I applaud your determination, and wish you all the luck and success in the world.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:57
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Music Junkie posted:In a way, I applaud Dagger for wanting to save her mother. Admittedly, my first playthrough, I just thought she went about it in a stupid way, especially as there was no guarantee that Brahne would even listen to her. Now it's more like "Okay, she's come for help, and she'll get it, but they're insisting on treating her like she doesn't know what she's doing, (which is slightly true) and that's not what she wants, she's taking matters into her own hands." If nothing else, she's certainly proactive. As for the latter, I always read it more that they're treating her as a Princess who has a big list of do's and don'ts to follow that directly conflict with what she experienced on her journey there with Zidane & Co. She had a whole bunch of new experiences and developed a bit more self-reliance than a royal upbringing would normally give her. Being put back in her Princess box doesn't sit well with her at all especially since Cid has to move carefully and slowly since he has to balance his duty as Regent with wanting to help Dagger.
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Aug 31, 2015 07:56
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EponymousMrYar posted:The first point is accurate though that's more of a result of audience(player) knowledge rather than character knowledge, after all they didn't hear her send Zhorn & Thorne & the Black Waltz' after Dagger. We know Brahne's not as up-and-up as Dagger & Steiner think she is, but we don't know how that revelation will turn out and that'll be a bit of tension in the back of our minds while watching what Dagger & Steiner do in their efforts to help the Queen. On the other hand, they know what the player does with the regard that Alexandria has been apparently mass-producing black mages as ???? (Airship pilots? Weapons of war? There's no indication yet past the cargo ship, the Black Waltzes, and what we've heard from that dying soldier) and that the Black Waltzes seemed single-mindedly insistent on capturing Garnet - though BW2 wanted her alive, BW3 didn't seem to have any such hangups about trying to murder her too. What I'm saying is that Garnet is kind of obstinately refusing to put 2 and 2 together because she doesn't want to believe something is rotten in her state of Denmark.
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Aug 31, 2015 10:50
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KataraniSword posted:On the other hand, they know what the player does with the regard that Alexandria has been apparently mass-producing black mages as ???? (Airship pilots? Weapons of war? There's no indication yet past the cargo ship, the Black Waltzes, and what we've heard from that dying soldier) and that the Black Waltzes seemed single-mindedly insistent on capturing Garnet - though BW2 wanted her alive, BW3 didn't seem to have any such hangups about trying to murder her too. Well, would you want to believe your mother is producing an army of magical abominations? It's clearly uhh some secret faction at court responsible for this, mother will deal with them if I just tell her...
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Aug 31, 2015 11:08
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Garnet wanting to return to Alexandria doesn't require her to be dense or in denial. She's probably got a pretty good idea what her mother's getting up to. She's her daughter though. They're family. Garnet is hoping she can use that fact to get through to her mother where other people might be ignored. Not only is it something she can do, it's something only she can do. Everything else she's tried so far, it always turns out someone else is one step ahead of where she wants to be. Cid can probably defeat her mother, but she wants to stop her mother.
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Aug 31, 2015 11:37
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Keep in mind this entire game started with Garnet sneaking *out* of Alexandria, so she could go talk to Cid about this. She's perfectly aware that her mother's up to no good.
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Aug 31, 2015 14:32
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Another thing is that Brahne only became evil fairly recently. Garnet remembers her from when she was good, and certainly thinks that Brahne can become good again just as easy as she became evil. Even Zidane and Cid do not have actual proof about Brahne's corruption at this time in the story.
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Aug 31, 2015 15:16
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Yeah um, it seems rather recent Brahne's odd turn of events has happened, since the only reason Tantalus were there was because Cid hired them specifically to kidnap Garnet out of safety. If this had been something going over a longer time it would not have happened at this point but well, long before. So whatever weird poo poo is going down at Alexandria Castle even Dagger is aware of it, she even looked pretty upset when watching the performance of the Prima Vista right before she went off to sneak out the castle in a white mage outfit so she really had been planning this for a bit knowing something was wrong. Hobgoblin2099 posted:In the case of that last one, I think he was trying to cheer Rikku up in the dumbest way possible. That being said, Wakka calming down and his subsequent character arc in X-2 were pretty great moments for him. He even ends up giving his son an Al Bhed name. FinalGamer fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 18:00
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