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Mel Mudkiper posted:
The extension of this is the idea that you can't think and discuss things about a work unless it's considered literary (i.e., has social affirmation); "turn your brain off" and all that. You can find out a whole lot about people based on what they feel is the "standard" of the time. I understand why we're not discussing "The Ideology of D&D Novels" in this thread though because it's explicitly cordoned off to generate novel discussion, at least compared to the rest of TBB.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:01
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I finished those Lampedusa stories and they were all quite good, obviously none of them could have nearly the depth of The Leopard but the writing itself was still very well crafted and beautiful and the stories themselves were all fairly different from one another while still surrounding many of the same themes. The third one The Blind Kittens was my favorite and of the three it's the most direct sequel to The Leopard.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:06
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I think this thread is good and should keep on trucking as it is. i mean, i like genre novels, comic books and children's books and I don't mind a stray discussion about the literary value of Christopher Priest or w/e as long as it doesn't swallow the other conversations.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:08
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computer parts posted:The extension of this is the idea that you can't think and discuss things about a work unless it's considered literary (i.e., has social affirmation); "turn your brain off" and all that. You can find out a whole lot about people based on what they feel is the "standard" of the time. Oh yeah, it's why I love Post Structuralism. The idea that all text carries messages of social value is I think the most legitimate way to discuss art.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:11
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Also, Nobel prize ceremony is getting closer, so I guess I'll read some of the perennial candidates I haven't got to yet. Basically, Amos Oz and Jon Fosse. Maybe I should read something else from Krasznahorkai apart from the weird 50 page story (el ultimo lobo) I read last year, but eh. I think I'll go for another Kadare instead (I have The Fall of the Stone City on the shelf). Along with Marias he's my favourite writer of the ones that get mentioned the most in connection with the prize.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:14
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i would actually be totally down with discussing themes and messaging in Astrid Lindgren's work, because it's enormously influental to swedish attitudes and ideology and because many of her books are really good ruminations on themes like the futility of life and action, the purpose of sacrifice and the nature of vitality
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Aug 30, 2015 17:14
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V. Illych L. posted:there are lots of Good and Solid children's books I didn't literally mean Children's Books m8
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Aug 30, 2015 17:15
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Burning Rain posted:Also, Nobel prize ceremony is getting closer, so I guess I'll read some of the perennial candidates I haven't got to yet. Basically, Amos Oz and Jon Fosse. Maybe I should read something else from Krasznahorkai apart from the weird 50 page story (el ultimo lobo) I read last year, but eh. I think I'll go for another Kadare instead (I have The Fall of the Stone City on the shelf). Along with Marias he's my favourite writer of the ones that get mentioned the most in connection with the prize. for some reason I can't imagine Jon Fosse translating very well, at least his plays are heavily infused with that stacatto germanic sentence construction. this may just be the norwegian reading of his work as having a peculiarly national character rather than a more general contemporary character, though - problems of alienation of intimacy and existential ennui certainly aren't unique to modern-day norway, i suppose
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Aug 30, 2015 17:18
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Peter Sis is awesome and gently caress you if you disagree
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Aug 30, 2015 17:21
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I keep hoping Cormac McCarthy wins and praying to God Phillip Roth doesn't
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Aug 30, 2015 17:22
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V. Illych L. posted:for some reason I can't imagine Jon Fosse translating very well, at least his plays are heavily infused with that stacatto germanic sentence construction. this may just be the norwegian reading of his work as having a peculiarly national character rather than a more general contemporary character, though - problems of alienation of intimacy and existential ennui certainly aren't unique to modern-day norway, i suppose I remember reading a short one act play of his last year which was basically a couple sitting in a room and brooding (until one of inlaws came in and they brooded together), and I liked it. I don't think that English is that far apart language -wise, although some of the effect might get lost, obv.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:27
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V. Illych L. posted:there are lots of Good and Solid children's books I assume this means Brothers Lionheart? Lindgren was and is enormously popular in Latvia, too - we had our own films based on books and everything -, and I loved her a lot as a kid. Lionhearts was one of the saddest books I remember reading from the time, and it touches on a lot of adult themes, but I don't know how appealing it would be to me now. It's the same as genre books - they can deal with very important topics in a profound way, but I always feel that the rules and expectations of the form make it seem aimed at a cordoned audience. The works that transcend it entirely, only keeping the outward elements (future society or children protagonists) are probably the ones who would get shelved under Literature in bookshops (which is primarily a marketing term, anyway).
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Aug 30, 2015 17:36
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Burning Rain posted:I remember reading a short one act play of his last year which was basically a couple sitting in a room and brooding (until one of inlaws came in and they brooded together), and I liked it. I don't think that English is that far apart language -wise, although some of the effect might get lost, obv. This post reminded me of a one act play by Verlaine which is essentially just two people kissing and then a guy walks on stage, shoots them both then looks at the man's corpse, then the woman's corpse and goes "oh no I shot the wrong couple".
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Aug 30, 2015 17:56
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Everyone thinks literature (and music, incidentally) in their own language "doesn't translate well", but I think it's usually more about being tied to some sort of very specific cultural context than the language. There's exceptions, sure, but they're not that common.
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Aug 30, 2015 19:42
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What are some good books for me to read if my favorite authors are Chabon, Pynchon, Franzen and similar? I'd be open to stuff that isn't written by straight white males as well. Also, I have the Black Snow because Mel Mudkipper mentioned it at one point so I should probably read that next.
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Aug 30, 2015 21:19
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I need to read more of Fosse's plays. I need to read more plays that aren't Ibsen or Shakespeare in general, actually.
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Aug 30, 2015 21:31
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Cloks posted:What are some good books for me to read if my favorite authors are Chabon, Pynchon, Franzen and similar? Those are some of my favorites as well. To avoid SWM, try Zadie Smith. Her first book was published when she was like 24 or 26 and was a huge hit. White Teeth. It isn't perfect, but you'll almost certainly love many parts of it. David Foster Wallace, of course. For a less literary but really fun writer, look into Nick Harkaway's Gone Away World. Not really appropriate for this thread, but its stylistically similar to Pynchon's writing. If you like Franzen, especially Corrections and Freedom, you need to read Middlesex. That book blows Franzen's family sagas out of the water. The Secret History by Donna Tart comes to mind. I think that fits into those guys you listed. blue squares fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 22:01
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Cloks posted:What are some good books for me to read if my favorite authors are Chabon, Pynchon, Franzen and similar? I am Radar Carry the One The Goldfinch The Art of Fielding
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Aug 30, 2015 23:00
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blue squares posted:Those are some of my favorites as well. I've read Infinite Jest, The Broom of the System, Consider the Lobster, Middlesex, and The Marriage Plot and liked all of them. I've been meaning to read White Teeth for years and have had Donna Tart recommended a ton but was always hesitant for some reason I can't pin down... Mel Mudkiper posted:I am Radar Love The Art of Fielding, I'll check out the others. Thanks for the recommendations.
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Aug 31, 2015 00:40
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Cloks posted:Love The Art of Fielding, I'll check out the others. You might also like "& Sons"
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Aug 31, 2015 00:46
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Mel Mudkiper posted:You might also like "& Sons" I've read The Normals, I'll add that to the list.
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Aug 31, 2015 01:15
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Burning Rain posted:I assume this means Brothers Lionheart? Lindgren was and is enormously popular in Latvia, too - we had our own films based on books and everything -, and I loved her a lot as a kid. Lionhearts was one of the saddest books I remember reading from the time, and it touches on a lot of adult themes, but I don't know how appealing it would be to me now. It's the same as genre books - they can deal with very important topics in a profound way, but I always feel that the rules and expectations of the form make it seem aimed at a cordoned audience. The works that transcend it entirely, only keeping the outward elements (future society or children protagonists) are probably the ones who would get shelved under Literature in bookshops (which is primarily a marketing term, anyway). the trick of great children's literature is that it should be literature accessible to children but with actual substance - Lindgren legitimately does this, and has actual good reflections on the issues. the imagery and turns of phrase are all fairly straightforward, but it's no less present and no less powerful for that. jonatan's sacrifice is hardly explicable, but easily understood in the context of the novel. a complex, human situation is made approachable somehow. i don't know what more we want from our literature than that tbh there's a tendency, and there has been for a long while, to assume that literature aimed at children can not be Literature, and i vehemently disagree. this attitude often ignores the real quality and content that exists in children's literature, also for adults. of course, there's an awful lot of dross, but that's the case in any kind of writing
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Aug 31, 2015 03:03
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Cloks posted:What are some good books for me to read if my favorite authors are Chabon, Pynchon, Franzen and similar? Pynchon -> William Gaddis, DFW Franzen -> John Updike, Tom Wolfe
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Aug 31, 2015 05:35
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Franzen's a big mean jerk and I don't like him.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:44
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Franzen once wrote a big article about how he didn't like JR and therefore nobody else should either, and thinks that sales numbers is the greatest measure of success for a book.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:45
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mallamp posted:Chabon -> Jonathan Lethem, Neal Stephenson Thanks, I'll pull Snow Crash and The Fortress of Solitude; I've also been meaning to read the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test. Read half of the Recognitions before I ducked out, I'll probably pick it up again in the future. I think I've read all of the better books by Updike - Garp, Owen Meany, Cider House and Hotel New Hampshire.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:46
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V. Illych L. posted:the trick of great children's literature is that it should be literature accessible to children but with actual substance - Lindgren legitimately does this, and has actual good reflections on the issues. the imagery and turns of phrase are all fairly straightforward, but it's no less present and no less powerful for that. jonatan's sacrifice is hardly explicable, but easily understood in the context of the novel. a complex, human situation is made approachable somehow. i don't know what more we want from our literature than that tbh There's some academics who actually takes children's literature seriously though. Maria Nikolajeva has some interesting writings on the historical developments of children's literature, for example.
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Aug 31, 2015 10:42
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Nanomashoes posted:Franzen thinks that sales numbers is the greatest measure of success for a book. That's not an unreasonable position to hold. It isn't mine, though.
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Aug 31, 2015 11:50
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Cloks posted:Thanks, I'll pull Snow Crash and The Fortress of Solitude; I've also been meaning to read the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test. Snow Crash is very overrated. It has a ton of neat ideas but the characters are two-dimensional and what you get on page 1 is what you get on the last page with all of them.
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Aug 31, 2015 11:52
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Cloks posted:books by Updike - Garp, Owen Meany, Cider House and Hotel New Hampshire.
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Aug 31, 2015 12:24
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mallamp posted:Franzen -> John Updike, Tom Wolfe I have never seen these authors as connected and am curious about what makes you put them together
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Aug 31, 2015 12:32
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Nanomashoes posted:Franzen once wrote a big article about how he didn't like JR and therefore nobody else should either, and thinks that sales numbers is the greatest measure of success for a book.
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Aug 31, 2015 12:39
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Franzen and Updike, middle-class white American domestic dramas. Franzen and Tom Wolfe, the ambition to define the times.
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Aug 31, 2015 12:39
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Franzen's subject matter is hardly confined to MCWADD
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Aug 31, 2015 12:51
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Sir John Feelgood posted:Franzen and Updike, middle-class white American domestic dramas. That's a pretty superficial comparison when they end up having completely different outlooks and consequences Plus I think Tom Wolfe consciously wanted to be a "voice for his time" while Franzen has always had it as a far secondary ambition. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 13:21
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All these comparisons are superficial. Of course they fall apart when you focus the lens.
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Aug 31, 2015 13:31
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novamute posted:Dumas wrote a ton of poo poo. If you liked his style you can always pick up the D'Artagnan Romances and they'll keep you busy for a while. If I do go through the Romances (with the understanding that the quality seems to vary), any recommended edition/translator I should pick up? Wikipedia mentions Richard Pevear hating all the other translations at least in 2006. For that matter, I've always wanted to dig through Les Misérables. If I do, should I just pick up the most recent Penguin translation? I'm not planning a shopping trip or anything, both of these will be a while off.
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Aug 31, 2015 13:49
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Sir John Feelgood posted:All these comparisons are superficial. Of course they fall apart when you focus the lens. Yeah sorry was being prickish its just that I found my experience with those three authors so deeply different
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Aug 31, 2015 14:02
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Sir John Feelgood posted:That's John Irving. Ah. Well, I've read Updike's Falconer and a bunch of his story stories, like the enormous radio.
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Aug 31, 2015 18:37
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Did anybody tell that Chabon/Franzen/Pynchon dude to read the Sot Weed Factor? If not then they might like that. I would certainly recommend it (and JR and Middlesex) over loving Snow Crash.Caustic Chimera posted:If I do go through the Romances (with the understanding that the quality seems to vary), any recommended edition/translator I should pick up? Wikipedia mentions Richard Pevear hating all the other translations at least in 2006. How new is the Penguin translation? Even the more recent editions still use the Denny translation iirc. It's fine.
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Aug 31, 2015 18:47
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