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Noam Chomsky posted:This is an incredibly stupid criticism to leverage against these sorts of games at this point. This is a new genre of game. Continuing to make these criticisms is like saying Halo is poo poo because it cribs too much from Doom since both are FPS games. I remember a time when everything was a "doom clone" before there was such a thing as an "FPS" genre
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Sep 2, 2015 19:12
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so far my only gripe with the game, at least in terms of "realism", is that if your car is about to die, you can easily be cheap by simply getting out of your car, which for some reason causes the AI to ignore your car entirely while it gets repaired. makes more sense that they would either try to steal it or try to destroy it at that point, rather than suddenly just ignoring it and unenthusiastically trying to run you over - kind of a tough gameplay problem to solve though since they obviously don't want you truly carless past a certain pointNoam Chomsky posted:This is an incredibly stupid criticism to leverage against these sorts of games at this point. No it's not, open world games have been around for a long time. I personally don't agree that this game cribs too much from the Ubisoft formula compared to some others, but that's certainly a thing
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Sep 2, 2015 19:13
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Noam Chomsky posted:So when do common gameplay mechanics and tropes create a genre for the games that they're common to? Its not a new genre we have had open world games since for loving ever. Ubisoft style mission structure doesn't really change the whole thing into a new genre. If missions were more like GTA instead of Ubisoft or they tried something new to spice it up it would have probably been a little more interesting. Ubisoft style mission structure (towers, enemy camps, etc) has been run through the ground already by Ubisoft themselves in a very short time. I don't know what else there is to understand about this. E: you're loving retarded
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Sep 2, 2015 19:14
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These reviewers actually believe that intentionally low-scoring popular AAA titles while artificially inflating the scores of the latest indie bullshit platformer is what's good for the industry. They basically can't be trusted to give a good review any more because they are too far up their own asses.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:15
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Its not a new genre we have had open world games since for loving ever. Ubisoft style mission structure doesn't really change the whole thing into a new genre. If missions were more like GTA instead of Ubisoft or they tried something new to spice it up it would have probably been a little more interesting. Ubisoft style mission structure (towers, enemy camps, etc) has been run through the ground already by Ubisoft themselves in a very short time. If every third-person open world game started to crib from the Ubisoft/Arkham forumla, then wouldn't that just become the "open world" genre? It's a sub-genre of the open-world genre of games, obviously. e: sorry, man, people like them. these games will be around forever.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:15
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The REAL Goobusters posted:
Man, you're hostile about open world games aren't you?
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Sep 2, 2015 19:16
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Noam Chomsky posted:If every third-person open world game started to crib from the Ubisoft/Arkham forumla, then wouldn't that just become the "open world" genre? yes, which would be unfortunate, which means making a criticism in that direction is entirely valid?
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Sep 2, 2015 19:17
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Earwicker posted:yes, which would be unfortunate, which means making a criticism in that direction is entirely valid? I guess, if you're someone who doesn't like those mechanics for whatever reason. I am always curious as to what deeper things people want out of an open-world sandbox game. Like, seriously, what would you want to have to do in these games?
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Sep 2, 2015 19:18
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Noam Chomsky posted:I guess, if you're someone who doesn't like those mechanics for whatever reason. Indeed, and I suspect the reviewer in question is such a someone. Or maybe not someone who dislikes those mechanics outright but would rather not see them in every single open world game coming out. Again, I don't entirely agree with it in this case, but it's still a valid position, I'm not sure what's so "incredibly stupid" about it because again, this isn't remotely a new genre. quote:I am always curious as to what deeper things people want out of an open-world sandbox game. Like, seriously, what would you want to have to do in these games? There are other ways of handling things that work just as well. GTA5 for example is a great third person open world sandbox without any of the view towers/enemy stronghold mechanics that are currently associated with Ubisoft. So is RDR.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:20
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We've hired a vegan to review this steakhouse. Let's see what his opinion is on the prime rib!
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Sep 2, 2015 19:23
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Noam Chomsky posted:If every third-person open world game started to crib from the Ubisoft/Arkham forumla, then wouldn't that just become the "open world" genre?
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Sep 2, 2015 19:23
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Earwicker posted:Indeed, and I suspect the reviewer in question is such a someone. Or maybe not someone who dislikes those mechanics outright but would rather not see them in every single open world game coming out. Again, I don't entirely agree with it in this case, but it's still a valid position, I'm not sure what's so "incredibly stupid" about it because again, this isn't remotely a new genre. I am legitimately curious as to what people want in-place of these mechanics. As I said before, if you categorically dislike a type of game then that doesn't reflect poorly on the game, but rather your perception of it - which is the fundamental problem with reviews in the first place. Also, yes, there are definitely enough games now to say this is a sub-genre of open world games. There will continue to be more, so make your peace with it.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:24
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Noam Chomsky posted:I am always curious as to what deeper things people want out of an open-world sandbox game. Like, seriously, what would you want to have to do in these games? Full disclosure, I haven't played either of those games yet, nor Mad Max on account of the fact that I pretty much only play one giant, open world game at a time and I'm still on Sleeping Dogs right now. 
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Sep 2, 2015 19:26
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wyoak posted:It sounds like you're saying people shouldn't criticize something for being derivative because anything there's no such thing as derivative, there are just sub-genres. Which is dumb. I like Mad Max but it's pretty clearly cribbed from the Ubi formula and doesn't do anything particularly noteworthy. I guess I just don't see why you can't take a template of mechanics and then place it on a different setting - LoTR, Mad Max, etc. - and then have an enjoyable game come out of that. Of course, I don't read reviews or really believe they provide anything of value anymore, in the face of being able to watch someone stream the game live and see if you like it, so maybe the whole concept of giving a poo poo about "derivative" when it comes to gaming is alien to me to the point where I just don't loving care. I've been gaming for 25 years; almost everything is derivative of something else.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:27
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Noam Chomsky posted:I am legitimately curious as to what people want in-place of these mechanics. Why does there have to be anything in place of them? Like I already mentioned, the GTA games don't have such mechanics and most of them are great open world games. Same with RDR. Or Skyrim. Or Fallout. It is indeed provably possible to make a good fun open world game without having to use view towers or take enemy strongholds to access new areas, abilities, or gain map info etc. quote:Also, yes, there are definitely enough games now to say this is a sub-genre of open world games. There will continue to be more, so make your peace with it. I don't think anyone is saying that such games shouldn't exist, just that people get tired of seeing the same mechanics again and again - I'm at peace with their existence, and sometimes I enjoy them, but again that doesn't invalidate the criticism or make it "stupid" in any sense, it's a perfectly legitimate stance.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:27
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Noam Chomsky posted:Also, yes, there are definitely enough games now to say this is a sub-genre of open world games. There will continue to be more, so make your peace with it. Next step in open world games is just making the world feel more alive and reactive to the player...Mordor took a step with the nemesis system. The ubi base/stronghold mechanic was originally a step in that direction as well, but it's pretty well trodden at this point. wyoak fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Sep 2, 2015 |
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Sep 2, 2015 19:28
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Mordja posted:Well most recently we had The Witcher 3 which had a ton of handmade side conent. And before that was Shadows of Mordor with its dynamic Nemesis system. I wish Mad Max featured the Nemesis System. I really enjoyed it in Shadow of Mordor. I'm finding Witcher 3 to be kind of dull, venturing through endless samey woodland landscapes, but it may be that I'm just not in the mood for such a game right now.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:29
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Earwicker posted:Why does there have to be anything in place of them? Like I already mentioned, the GTA games don't have such mechanics and most of them are great open world games. Same with RDR. Or Skyrim. Or Fallout. No lmao its a new genre you can't hate it because of that!!!!
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Sep 2, 2015 19:29
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I like how mgs v doles out missions. The game will give you roughly three hours of new stuff. Once that's done, it'll hand out three more hours. By comparison, The Witcher 3 was fine letting you build up this giant list of poo poo to do.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:30
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let's be honest though, as soon as JC3 comes out this will be forgotten pretty fast
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Sep 2, 2015 19:30
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Noam Chomsky posted:I guess I just don't see why you can't take a template of mechanics and then place it on a different setting - LoTR, Mad Max, etc. - and then have an enjoyable game come out of that. Reviewers these days take it as a badge of honor to neither agree with their audience or to supposedly pander to the industry. It's no longer about the game, it's about them, their image, and their politics. They're not actually reviewing the game fairly anymore, they're promoting their site's and by extension, their own personal brand.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:30
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The REAL Goobusters posted:No lmao its a new genre you can't hate it because of that!!!! Actually, my argument revolves around the fact that some people are going to hate the genre, or sub-genre, but that doesn't reflect poorly on the game, just your perception of the sort of game it is - similarly to not enjoying racing games, or fighting games. You seem overly invested in hating on the game, and anyone who enjoys it. I love it.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:33
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Why doesn't this game straight tell you you can play the game with the filters/fov/depth of field and everything else from the screenshot menu? Now I can play the game to make it look exactly like the movie 
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Sep 2, 2015 19:35
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Noam Chomsky posted:I guess I just don't see why you can't take a template of mechanics and then place it on a different setting - LoTR, Mad Max, etc. - and then have an enjoyable game come out of that. You certainly can but some people are going to find that repetitive and unimaginative and they are going to say so. That doesn't even mean the game is bad, it's just an aspect that annoys some people. You might not be annoyed by that, but some people feel differently and there's nothing at all wrong with them saying so. Again, there are plenty of examples of good open world games without these "Ubi style" mechanics so they certainly aren't any kind of necessity.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:35
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wyoak posted:And people will continue to criticize them for being derivative and uninspired, so make your peace with that....don't get why people are so hung up on what reviewers think about a game they might like. I like Mad Max, but I concede that it's not doing anything original (or even doing old things in a particularly polished fashion). Sorry, similar mechanics don't make for a derivative and uninspired game. Is every single top-down RPG derivative and uninspired because it shares mechanics with Dragon Warrior? What about the Infinity Engine games? Derivative and uninspired? I think you all just have Assassin's Creed fatigue and are meting out punishment on any game that resembles it.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:35
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Earwicker posted:You certainly can but some people are going to find that repetitive and unimaginative and they are going to say so. That doesn't even mean the game is bad, it's just an aspect that annoys some people. You might not be annoyed by that, but some people feel differently and there's nothing at all wrong with them saying so. I am aware of that. In fact, that's what I had said. My point was that you not liking the game or its genre doesn't really say anything about the game, at all; it just means you don't like a thing.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:37
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Noam Chomsky posted:My point was that you not liking the game or its genre doesn't really say anything about the game, at all; it just means you don't like a thing. I enjoy the game a lot and I'm very confused by this response. Yes, a person expressing their opinion about a game is certainly just expressing their opinion, I'm glad you understand basic human opinions. All I'm saying is that criticizing a particular mechanic as being derivative is certainly valid - it doesn't make the whole game bad. Nor do you personally have to agree with the criticism for it to be valid, it's simply a matter of taste. If someone is tired of ubi style mechanics that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:39
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SpaceGoatFarts posted:Why doesn't this game straight tell you you can play the game with the filters/fov/depth of field and everything else from the screenshot menu? wait, really? where the hell is this?
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Sep 2, 2015 19:43
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Just a Heads up there seems to be a graphics artifact with eyefinity/nvidia surround. It also wont allow usage of the harpoon gun in ultra widescreen
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Sep 2, 2015 19:43
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It's probably been repeated ad infinitum but man the nemesis system would fit right into this game and then some. Enemies could have their cars upgraded, be personalised to suit them, the different factions could power struggle, and you could have them be supported by bigger convoys or use specific weaponary. If you destroy them you could claim their heads and have them dangling from your car like wedding can trails or decorate them with their custom hood ornaments. I'd love to see this in the future if we ever see a sequel 
Songbearer fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Sep 2, 2015 |
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Sep 2, 2015 19:43
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Deakul posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfcfwheL5_g Hah, they basically said "when a game like Metal Gear V comes out, we move the goalposts for a game like this"
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Sep 2, 2015 19:45
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Songbearer posted:It's probably been repeated ad infinitum but man the nemesis system would fit right into this game and then some. TBH I'm surprised and disappointed that more games haven't shamelessly ripped this off yet.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:47
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I sure wish transfer tanks didn't blend into the scenery so well. They are always the last thing I finish up in a camp. I just did Rook Camp and one of the tanks didn't even have the hint marker on it when close to it, watch out for that. Also why the gently caress is Max destroying the most valuable part of the camp? The camp he's taking over, makes no sense. midge fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Sep 2, 2015 |
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Sep 2, 2015 19:47
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Earwicker posted:I enjoy the game a lot and I'm very confused by this response. Yes, a person expressing their opinion about a game is certainly just expressing their opinion, I'm glad you understand basic human opinions. It makes the review suspect because they're no longer reviewing the game for what it's trying to be, they're reviewing it based on their own fatigue. It's not surprising that a game journalist might find the latest game uninspiring because they've played similar games, but that doesn't make it a bad game. I don't think I have the right to do a poor job at work because I've done the task so many times before. If it's someone's job to review games and they're obviously sick of playing them and it bleeds into their reviews, maybe reviewing games isn't what they should be doing. It's the same type of bullshit where some self-important reviewer wen to a Rock Band event and basically complained about being schmoozed and shown the game because he didn't care for the genre. What kind of editor assigns people reviews who already have a dislike for the product? Would you trust or want to read reviews of rap albums from Fox News?
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Sep 2, 2015 19:47
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MinibarMatchman posted:wait, really? where the hell is this? You setup all your filters like for a screenshot, then choose start session like to record a video. There it says record a video OR simply play the game with your custom filters. I thought it would automatically record a video like in GTA but it doesn't so you can simply play. GOTY e: it does tend to reset itself when loading views though. If only there was a way to make this permanent SpaceGoatFarts fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Sep 2, 2015 |
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Sep 2, 2015 19:48
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natetimm posted:Would you trust or want to read reviews of rap albums from Fox News? I know what you're saying here, but you have to admit this would be freaking hilarious.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:50
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girth brooks part 2 posted:I know what you're saying here, but you have to admit this would be freaking hilarious. It would get me to watch Fox News.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:51
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SpaceGoatFarts posted:You setup all your filters like for a screenshot, then choose start session like to record a video. There it says record a video OR simply play the game with your custom filters. lol it sounds almost like it's a glitch or something that carries over but man that's awesome, I can't wait to try that.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:57
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girth brooks part 2 posted:I know what you're saying here, but you have to admit this would be freaking hilarious. This is the no spin zone and Kanye West is a genius.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:57
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natetimm posted:It makes the review suspect because they're no longer reviewing the game for what it's trying to be, they're reviewing it based on their own fatigue. It's not surprising that a game journalist might find the latest game uninspiring because they've played similar games, but that doesn't make it a bad game. I don't think a derivative mechanic makes a game a "bad game" in any sense, in fact I think a game can be chock full of wholly unoriginal mechanics but still be a very good game on the strength of other factors. That said, I don't really agree that it makes the review suspect - if someone thinks too many games are relying on a certain mechanic, one that they find makes the game more repetitive and tedious, I think that's a fair point. I don't agree with it entirely in this game but I do to an extent, and I have to say that while I do enjoy a number of Ubi's open world games like the Far Cry series, the open world games that stick with me the most are ones that don't have those mechanics - they just feel very artificial and they add a degree of repetition to the open world that I feel is unnecessary and detracts from the experience. Again that doesn't make it a bad game - FC4 is full of this poo poo, I found many aspects of it completely derivative, but I still had fun with it. quote:Would you trust or want to read reviews of rap albums from Fox News? No but if someone's criticism of a rap song is something along the lines of "the beat is derivative and relies on a style/sample/break/etc already used in countless top 40 rap songs over the last decade" I'd still consider that to be a very valid criticism, even if it came from Fox News, and even if I liked other aspects of the song.
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Sep 2, 2015 19:58
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