|
Keiya posted:Honestly, the economics of starter sets and the economics of everything else are rather different. In the long run it makes way more sense to have the starter sets in major stores when people are looking for Star Wars stuff, even for the FLGS, because it gets people picking it up who wouldn't previously have even gone to their FLGS. Right. There are positive externalities associated with this, IMO. The people who are interested enough will likely research where to get more miniatures for the game. Magic does it right by including ads with an easy to use store locator if you want to get more involved. AFAIK this doesn't exist for FFG so the consumer either has to find things purely online or somehow know what the hell "game stores" are or how to even look for "game stores" on google maps when they have never been to one before. So that makes the positive benefits small or nonexistent. I would say that if a short exclusivity deal is what it took for Target to buy in again, then it's great. FLGS sales will likely occur with or without Target exclusivity (especially such a short one) anyway and this allows the product to compete with other products the one time when it counts.
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 04:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 23:28 |
|
|
I'm also going to buy like six of them and then turn around and give four to my FLGS (after splitting two with a buddy) at cost, which in this case is actually still a profit for the FLGS, because my "at cost" for working at Target is like $33 something, and I know Target will get more in like three days later. I will personally shoot that restock order myself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 04:07
|
|
|
I can't imagine why Target would even consider FLGS as competition and require an exclusivity deal like that to sell Star Wars products on Force Friday. Or why FFG would even agree to that knowing their community. Perhaps FLGS owners are just really good at keeping secret launches secret.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
Strobe posted:The kind of people who walk into an FLGS and the kind of people who walk into a Target, while the same species, are not necessarily the same people. This is neither a good nor bad thing, it is merely A Thing. I wonder how the  FLY CASUAL, YOU GUYS dude feels about this.Keiya posted:Honestly, the economics of starter sets and the economics of everything else are rather different. In the long run it makes way more sense to have the starter sets in major stores when people are looking for Star Wars stuff, even for the FLGS, because it gets people picking it up who wouldn't previously have even gone to their FLGS. Yep. I expect that the number of Magic starter sets or duel decks sold in a year at big box retailers is much higher than the number of starter sets/duel decks sold at FLGSs. I once had a guy from Fender at a conference tell me about their supply chain. 80% of the volume of their guitars are sold through big retailers (Best Buy, Guitar Center, Sweetwater, Costco, Wal Mart, etc.), who order thousands of them at a time, and are sent in freight trains and huge delivery trucks. The rest are sent onesie-twosie to small, independent music stores via Fed Ex or UPS. Guess which one has the better margins and average selling price?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 04:09
|
|
|
My local store moves a ton of FFG product, and they've pretty much straight up said on Facebook that they are going to have the core sets in in Friday. I'm not convinced there's any sort of exclusivity at all, as opposed to only certain game stores got the opportunity to order product, with most of it being allocated to big box stores to fill their quotas.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 04:51
|
|
|
Devlan Mud posted:My local store moves a ton of FFG product, and they've pretty much straight up said on Facebook that they are going to have the core sets in in Friday. I'm not convinced there's any sort of exclusivity at all, as opposed to only certain game stores got the opportunity to order product, with most of it being allocated to big box stores to fill their quotas. Unless your store is the FFG game center they order from a distributor like everyone else. My FLGS has checked all their distributors and no dice.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 12:33
|
|
|
Tl;dr Get your drat underwear out of a bunch crying about the starter set. FFG is gift wrapping new players for FLGS, clean up your stores, advertise you can teach x-wing for the new crop of olayers, try to attach your shop as much as you can to Force Friday, don't be lazy and let a good opportunity pass you and your business by because people on the internet are grumbling We live in a world where Games Workshop is a thing. It sucks for FLGS about the starter sets but none of them are gonna stop carrying X-wing models because of it. X-wing is too popular. Plus FFG has made a product that'sfar more friendly to the FLGS as far as sales. Let's be completely honest here: I'm not buying a raider or CR-90 in store for full retail. It's not hapoening. But if I get done with a game and my opponent says "Hey, I bet your list would work better with another Y-wing instead of [insert ship here], then FFG made the cost of most starships so low buying in store is a no-brainer. Anything Falcon/Decimator/Firespray and under is a no brainer FLGS purchase, and often ahips I don't need can be impulse purchases at that price. That's a major win for FLGS when fhe building blocks of a list are very easy to rationalize for impulse purchases. Compare that with Warmachine/Warhammer 40k/ etc. Core units go for 40-60 before discounts. Dropping $40 on a unit is lees likely of an impulse purchase unless you are better off than me. With a bit of restraint or playing casually to proxy cards, one unit in those games is enough for an entire X-wing squadron. Plus, FFG's release cycle is the closest thing to magic booster card sets that I have seen for a miniatures game as far as price and frequency of release. Target sure as poo poo isnt gonna have shelf space for Tie-Punishers and K-Wings and Imperial Aces and B-wings; it's impractical for them to dwvote so much space to product that they have no idea if it will sell with consistency. You see this with video game systems, Target sells PS Vitas, but they only sell like 5 physical games for it. If they buy in with the 4 or 5 most popular ships then FLGS still win with people wanting different ships. If you are a FLGS owner or friends with one that is, don't just sit and cry about this. Use this incredible opportunity to your advantage. Go to kinkos or somewhere that makes banners or signs RIGHT NOW. Make signs letting people know you have Star Wars stuff to sell too on Force Friday. Take out an Ad in the paper or put another big sign that's bright and appealing wih large letters. Have it mention, "Did you get an X-wing starter kit from Target for you or your kids? Come in and let us teach you how to play!" Spic and span clean your stores. Make it inviting to this potential new crop of players that you can suck in, and in some cases their parents to bank roll. Talk to the parents, tell them you can give them recommendations of ships to buy for good report cards, or birthday presents, but for the love of god don't lie to them. These people at Target probably never have and never would have heard of your store, but if you can attach yourself as, "that small and clean shop that sells the cool Star Wars 'toys'," you are straight golden. And if the owner of my FLGS is reading this, you are less than half a mile away and on the same street as a high traffic Target. Pay someone to standout side in a Darth Vader costume and get people in your drat store.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 13:34
|
|
|
No, really Mr. FLGS, taking your regular customers and making them buy a product at another store rather than yours helps you because... Don't think anyone is too upset at Target selling X-Wing, it's the apparent exclusivity that will take the customers who buy the most X-wing stuff and send them to another store because they aren't going to wait if they don't have to.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:43
|
|
|
There's also the issue that we are a tiny minority of a store's sales even if this game is getting big enough to rival 40k. Magic is still the #1 item for all LGSs that want to stay in business and I imagine this one product won't have that much of a negative effect as total % of sales go. I might see more suffering from a store which had more toys, especially Star Wars toys. I only know of one and his merchandise is so spread out (and he attends large comic events to trade/sell/buy $15k+ comics) that he isn't worried. He's now also Bernie Sanders' campaign manager so he doesn't visit the shop now 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:12
|
|
|
waah posted:Tl;dr Get your drat underwear out of a bunch crying about the starter set. FFG is gift wrapping new players for FLGS, clean up your stores, advertise you can teach x-wing for the new crop of olayers, try to attach your shop as much as you can to Force Friday, don't be lazy and let a good opportunity pass you and your business by because people on the internet are grumbling Or instead of spending money advertising in newspapers to customers who buy products at chain stores they could just be able to order the product like they do all other FFG products.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:55
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:. He's now also Bernie Sanders' campaign manager so he doesn't visit the shop now Well, at least he'll be back in a few months.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 16:35
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:I pretty much only fly Kath Scarlet (Scum Firespray pilot) with 2 Ys or 4 Zs and those ships are all in good places. You may not like the Y much but you can run those lists with just a Slave I and 2 Most Wanteds which is pretty good value for how effective they all are. OK, since I definitely will get 1 most wanted set, that's good to hear. Might as well try the Y wing once or twice, but my gut says I won't really want any more. Going to look at 2-aggressor lists and lists using Slave 1 + 2-3 cheaper ships, or 3 ship lists using the khiracz and starvipers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
Don't discount using an Aggressor plus another large ship too. The title is good, but the ships themselves are still fantastic even without that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:28
|
|
|
This new core set business has really brought out the idiot opinions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:31
|
|
|
The Gate posted:Don't discount using an Aggressor plus another large ship too. The title is good, but the ships themselves are still fantastic even without that. Very true. Maybe an aggressor and 2 kiracz/starvipers. I am definitely going to try modifying both the aggressor and starviper models by cutting off and re positioning the wings though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 19:13
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:This new core set business has really brought out the idiot opinions. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
That was directed at tl;dr underwear bunching guy, not you. I fully acknowledge that I myself am an idiot, but I don't think I lack the self-awareness to go up to my FLGS owner and say "Hey you know that new core set that's coming out on Friday that you apparently can't order? Yeah don't look at this as an annoyance, look at it as an opportunity." I don't think this heralds any apocalyptic fallout my own self, but I can definitely see a game store owner who does a decent business in FFG lines (like mine does) being somewhat off-put at the discovery of "oh yeah there's a new X-Wing core set coming out btw" only because a customer casually brought it up in passing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 19:24
|
|
|
 I just think there's a possible sound economic theory and boon to the decision. Assuming all agents are rational, market is rational, etc. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 19:27
|
|
|
I'm settled; Next Monday I'm going to fly this for our 'mixed' tournament (some long time players trying to fly not-too-obvious lists, some new guys who have next to nothing) as it's a mix of obviously good combos, and letting me try something. With it's great dial, Barrel Roll and Enhanced Scopes, in some ways I can use an E-Wing as a lovely blocker, but it's still a viable ship in it's own right. I can't decide whether to drop VI off Etahn for Initiative, because at PS10/9/0 for movement, it's not like I really care anyway. Thoughts welcomed. MUCH ADO A'BAHT NOTHING 100 points PILOTS Wes Janson (31) X-Wing (29), R2 Astromech (1), Veteran Instincts (1) Wedge Antilles (34) X-Wing (29), R2 Astromech (1), Opportunist (4) Etahn A’baht (35) E-Wing (32), R2 Astromech (1), Veteran Instincts (1), Enhanced Scopes (1)
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 19:30
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:
I admit that part of the reason I'm annoyed by this is purely me being a selfish whiny nerd because I want the new core set as soon as I can get my grubby paws on it but I prefer to support my FLGS because it's actually an FLGS with good playspace and cheap snacks. I can wait, I'm not going to melt down into a puddle if I don't get new X-Wangs, but still. I mean poo poo, I don't even have room for the drat things after Wave 7, my carrying cases are almost completely full. I'm going to have to start bringing a limited selection with me to game now, I can't bring the whole collection anymore.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 19:36
|
|
|
What is a good carrying case these days? I have two Plano cases that can just barely fit all my small ships and bases, and then I just have my large ships hanging out in their original plastic shells because I have no idea what else to do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 20:02
|
|
Yawgmoft posted:What is a good carrying case these days? I have two Plano cases that can just barely fit all my small ships and bases, and then I just have my large ships hanging out in their original plastic shells because I have no idea what else to do. Get a third Plano case? That's pretty much what I need to do. I also need to start storing Imperial Assault stuff too.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 20:20
|
|
|
Yawgmoft posted:What is a good carrying case these days? I have two Plano cases that can just barely fit all my small ships and bases, and then I just have my large ships hanging out in their original plastic shells because I have no idea what else to do. Plano 732 is excellent but its a Walmart exclusive lmao
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 20:41
|
|
|
I'm going to my first tournament in 2 weeks, and I'm thinking of going for something fairly easy to fly given my lack of experience: either Han Solo — YT-1300, Chewbacca, Millennium Falcon Jake Farrell — A-Wing, Veteran Instincts, Chardaan Refit, Autothrusters. Bandit Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter Bandit Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter Or Han Solo — YT-1300, Predator, Chewbacca, Millennium Falcon Tycho Celchu — A-Wing, Push the Limit, Chardaan Refit, Autothrusters. Prototype Pilot — A-Wing, Chardaan Refit, Autothrusters. Basically I want a well protected but not super fat Han (because I don't have any epic ship cards ), with a decent set of wingmen. I have 2 As, 2Bs, 2Xs, 3Zs, 1Y and 1E to play with, and I like As with autothrusters, just not sure their anaemic 2 reds are enough.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 21:12
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:That was directed at tl;dr underwear bunching guy, not you. I fully acknowledge that I myself am an idiot, but I don't think I lack the self-awareness to go up to my FLGS owner and say "Hey you know that new core set that's coming out on Friday that you apparently can't order? Yeah don't look at this as an annoyance, look at it as an opportunity." I don't think this heralds any apocalyptic fallout my own self, but I can definitely see a game store owner who does a decent business in FFG lines (like mine does) being somewhat off-put at the discovery of "oh yeah there's a new X-Wing core set coming out btw" only because a customer casually brought it up in passing. Eh it is what it is. Silver lining and lemonade.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 22:10
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:I'm settled; Next Monday I'm going to fly this for our 'mixed' tournament (some long time players trying to fly not-too-obvious lists, some new guys who have next to nothing) as it's a mix of obviously good combos, and letting me try something. With it's great dial, Barrel Roll and Enhanced Scopes, in some ways I can use an E-Wing as a lovely blocker, but it's still a viable ship in it's own right. I can't decide whether to drop VI off Etahn for Initiative, because at PS10/9/0 for movement, it's not like I really care anyway. Thoughts welcomed. I'm interested to see how it works out for you. I've never flown with an ES blocker but sounds like an interesting accompaniment to the X-bros
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 23:03
|
|
|
That list is the epitome of not giving a gently caress about initiative, so I'd keep the VI to let Etahn shoot before or simultaneously with other mid-skill pilots, particularly Brobots and Guri.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
Showed up to play some X-Wing after talking with someone at board game night yesterday who mentioned he picked up a new K-Wing at PAX and wanted to see how it flew, didn't even know he played Wangs. Make arrangements to show up and do some gaming with him, someone else I know plays X-Wing chimes in on Facebook. Hey, things are looking great. Both show up, neither have any X-Wing stuff. Neither is interested in borrowing loaners from me. Some days I feel like I wasted a shitload of money on the wrong game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 03:48
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Showed up to play some X-Wing after talking with someone at board game night yesterday who mentioned he picked up a new K-Wing at PAX and wanted to see how it flew, didn't even know he played Wangs. Make arrangements to show up and do some gaming with him, someone else I know plays X-Wing chimes in on Facebook. Hey, things are looking great. Wasted a shitload of time on the wrong people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 04:55
|
|
|
Swagger Dagger posted:Wasted a shitload of time on the wrong people. Part of it is simply that I'm in a dinky part of the state...I know there's a store down in Vancouver (WA, not BC) that hosts regionals for example, it's just that driving down that way isn't as much of a casual impulse thing so I'd need to make sure it's worth my time to start driving 20+ miles both ways to fly some wangs. But holy poo poo it's beginning to sound like an attractive proposition. Part of it though is people just either don't seem interested in playing anymore or always have other stuff they're doing...of the people who got me into X-Wing in the first place one is always busy with a never-ending stream of community theater productions and the other has delved back into WoW (and is moving to Nevada at the end of October so welp). There's another local game store in the area I know of that I'm gonna check out, I know they hold regular Armada events so maybe there's an X-Wing contingent too. I mean I hope there is, that'd be great since the one really reliable player I know if is gone to Hawaii for the next two months to inventory Wal-Marts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 05:11
|
|
|
Eh, 20-30 miles doesn't seem that far, that's about as far to my local store. If you weren't so far South I'd say come up to Bremerton, It looks like I'm going to start doing a joint monthly x-wing/armada event with someone who plays armada. I'm tempted to even see about getting a tournament pack and run a store tourney, though I've never run a tournament before, and I know I won't be able to play if I'm running it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 07:09
|
|
|
Foolster41 posted:Eh, 20-30 miles doesn't seem that far, that's about as far to my local store. If you weren't so far South I'd say come up to Bremerton, It looks like I'm going to start doing a joint monthly x-wing/armada event with someone who plays armada. I'm tempted to even see about getting a tournament pack and run a store tourney, though I've never run a tournament before, and I know I won't be able to play if I'm running it. Yeah southern Washington is kind of a dead zone for nerdery it seems like, you've got Vancouver I guess and then ???? for miles until you get further north.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 07:11
|
|
|
This game is really taking off at my LGS and Im thinking of buying in. I'll probably buy in when I can get my hands on the TFA core set box. I'm not sure what kind of ships I want to run though. The Hound's Tooth seems really fuckin cool but I dont really know anything about the rest of the Scum ships. I've always liked the TIE Interceptor but I've heard Imperials have it pretty rough atm and are usually run with just a TIE swarm.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 09:54
|
|
|
Pyronic posted:This game is really taking off at my LGS and Im thinking of buying in. I'll probably buy in when I can get my hands on the TFA core set box. I'm not sure what kind of ships I want to run though. The Hound's Tooth seems really fuckin cool but I dont really know anything about the rest of the Scum ships. I've always liked the TIE Interceptor but I've heard Imperials have it pretty rough atm and are usually run with just a TIE swarm. A list I've played and enjoyed in the past, though I don't know how tournament-worthy it is if that's a concern of yours, is two elite Interceptor pilots (Soontir Fel and Carnor Jax) with all the trimmings plus a Lambda shuttle for support. If you want to fly Interceptors then you'll want an Imperial Aces pack and an Interceptor solo expack to give you all the pilots, while some of the upgrades you really want (namely Autothrusters) sadly only come in a Scum ship (the Starviper), but you can always proxy them or try to find them on the secondary market.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 10:10
|
|
|
Had a game last week and had quite a bit of fun...then bought a few more ships to pad out my Imperial forces! However, we had trouble as the Imperials against the Rebels, what is the usual go-to for combating the shields of the Rebels? We play very rarely and last week we had 2 YT's (one Han, one Chewie), Luke in an X-wing, an A-wing and a B-wing against Boba Fett in a tooled-up Slave 1, a TIE bomber, 4 TIEs I think and an Interceptor. Everyone made a few mistakes here and there with bumping into other ships and asteroids, Han got knocked out but the Rebels walked away with it. The latest FFG release seems to be swinging things back towards bombers, should we have more of those to even things up against turrets and lots of shield/hull points? The Bomber last week was the first thing to get blown away so it didn't really do anything in the game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 10:51
|
|
|
Looking at what you mention having, here's my suggestions. The Interceptor should probably be one of the high pilot skill named guys. Low PS generic Interceptors are okay, but they're extremely not new player friendly. Soontir Fel is still pretty skill intensive, but he's a lot better off. Put Push the Limit on him, always. The regular TIE Fighters can be cheap or named, I generally just cram in lots of Academy Pilots as cheap blocking ships. They're agile and can swarm very well. The Firespray I'd actually probably recommend Kath over Boba. Boba is good, but Kath's ability is more generally useful. To add to all that, a big part of the game is learning what your and your opponents ships can do. Out maneuvering your opponent is hugely important and takes a lot of practice. Empire in general tends to have designs that rely on being flown very precisely, and you'll have a bit harder of a time at first. Keep at it! Edit: also, do everything you can to play with the 100 point limit. Looking at your list it sounds like you had more possibly, and the game can break down fast if you start going over.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 13:44
|
|
|
Thanks - yeah we played with 2 players per side, everyone with 100 pt maximums so 200 pts per side. As we hadn't played in ages I was the only one really pushing for a couple of normal size games but once I realized we still had 100 pts each I just let it go. I've got a second Firespray on the way and have the TIE Advanced and the Imperial Aces set now, so I should be OK on named Interceptor pilots. I kind of just threw cards at ships until I totalled 100 pts but at least now I have a starting point to build from again. So the cheap TIE pilots, the idea is to start with the named Interceptors behind them, so they move & fire first, then the TIEs move the same speed to block? That is...great to know. Never even thought about that. And I'll check out Kath. Are two pilots with the same name allowed on one side? Like 2 Howlrunners, 2 Kaths, etc.?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 14:16
|
|
|
So the idea with the low pilot skill ships is that they move first. So they move up into the path you think your opponents ships will take, and evade or barrel roll, etc. Then ideally your opponent's stuff will run into them and lose their actions and screw up their positioning. Then your high skill stuff gets to move in after and set up. Interceptors don't generally want to go head to head, they prefer to sweep in if possible, or even rush past the enemy initially and then turn in behind them, because they're fragile. But with Push the Limit they can focus and evade, and ride out a shot or two if they have to. You can't field two of the same named pilot. Anything with a dot beside the name is unique (there's a few upgrades that are unique), though in team games I guess you guys can decide how you want to play that since you'll have multiple players per side.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 15:09
|
|
|
So I've got a Firespray, y-wing and 3 Z-95's and I'm looking to add a bit more variety to my Scum lists. Are StarVipers any good? They look pretty fun, though the Kihraxz look like they're better value for points.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 15:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 23:28 |
|
|
The Gate posted:So the idea with the low pilot skill ships is that they move first. So they move up into the path you think your opponents ships will take, and evade or barrel roll, etc. Then ideally your opponent's stuff will run into them and lose their actions and screw up their positioning. Then your high skill stuff gets to move in after and set up. Interceptors don't generally want to go head to head, they prefer to sweep in if possible, or even rush past the enemy initially and then turn in behind them, because they're fragile. But with Push the Limit they can focus and evade, and ride out a shot or two if they have to. Ah ok! so the cheap TIEs literally run interference into the opponents and the Interceptors do stuff like K-turns, awesome. This is the tactical side I have no idea with, especially with this game. I'll keep the 'no two of the same pilot' rule in mind in future as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 15:37
|
|