Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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quote:

Chinese buyers drive Vancouver�s luxury housing market

Sales of houses $3 million-plus up 80 per cent over same period last year

Buyers from mainland China and a dwindling supply of high-end detached homes are driving Vancouver�s luxury real estate market, with has seen an 80-per-cent increase this year compared to 2014 in the number of sales over $3 million.

The latest numbers from RE/MAX show that 532 single-family houses sold for at least $3 million between Jan. 1 and July 31, a period that also saw a 41-per-cent increase in sales of homes over $1 million.

The highest end of the market is largely driven by offshore buyers hoping to relocate their families to Vancouver, according to Wayne Ryan, managing broker at RE/MAX Crest Realty Westside.

�Mainland China is churning out millionaires at quite a huge rate, and many of them like Vancouver,� Ryan said. �At this point, it�s all anecdotal, but the reality is we�re finding it�s between 70 and 75 per cent (of buyers.)�

He added that a weak Canadian dollar, coupled with a strong Chinese currency, is helping to make Vancouver a particularly attractive place to buy. Meanwhile, local homeowners seem to be sitting on their real estate rather than selling it, driving the price up even further.

The most expensive piece of real estate sold so far this year was a $17.55-million property with a view on Drummond Drive in West Point Grey. According to Ryan, the sale was based primarily on the value of the land.

�The ultimate plan for many of these places, especially for older homes, is to knock it down and rebuild,� he said.

The high demand from foreign buyers has created huge opportunities for Vancouver realtors to diversify. Because so many of buyers plan to relocate from the other side of the world, they�re looking to their real estate agents for help with more than just home shopping.

�They�re doing research on the good schools, they�re helping them buy cars and insurance,� Ryan said.

RE/MAX also reported a huge increase in the number of condo sales valued above $3 million, from 23 apartments in January-July 2014 to 40 in the same period this year � an increase of 74 per cent. The priciest condo sold so far this year was a $7.75-million unit in Coal Harbour.

But the luxury condo market is a completely different beast from the market for single-family homes, according to Ryan.

While there are a good number of condo buyers from China, they�re competing with people from Europe and the Middle East, as well as affluent locals � many of whom are the very same people who�ve cashed in by selling their Vancouver homes for millions.

�They�ve got the option of moving to White Rock or Tsawwassen, or they downsize into a condo. Often it�s a high-end, luxury condo,� Ryan said.

More condo buyers are investors, too.

�A lot of international investors will say, Vancouver�s a very safe market, so they�ll park their money here. That�s why you hear so much discussion about these apartments sitting vacant,� Ryan said. �Because money isn�t an issue � it�s not as if they need to rent them on Airbnb.�

# ? Sep 2, 2015 02:02

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# ? May 24, 2024 17:19

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/what-the-gdp-numbers-say-about-canadas-great-economic-divide/

quote:

What the GDP numbers say about Canada�s great economic divide
StatsCan�s GDP report shows�again�that Canadian households are the only thing keeping the economy afloat, while business investment has gone AWOL

Rise and be heralded, ye acquirers of quartz countertops. Take a bow, brave homebuyers from coast to frothy coast. Hear, hear, to the multitudes driving off dealer lots in your new Bimmers and F-150s. If it weren�t for you, plucky Canadian consumer, this country�s economy would really be in a pickle. Oh, sure, Canada tripped into a technical recession. You didn�t completely rescue us from that. But we�re not blaming you. At least you tried. Please check your mailboxes in the coming weeks for an exciting new credit card offer from your bank.

That Statistics Canada�s second-quarter GDP report confirmed a recession was upon us in the first half of the year didn�t come as much of a surprise. Between April and June, the economy shrank by 0.5 per cent on an annualized basis, after contracting by 0.8 per cent in the first quarter. And, as expected, the news has been taken up by opposition parties in the election campaign to attack the Conservatives, while the Conservatives seized on a one-month GDP gain in June to assure voters everything is just fine.

What this latest GDP report has done, though, is re-expose a deepening division in the Canadian economy that�s been with us for a while now: As giddy as households are to borrow and spend, businesses have curled themselves up into a fetal position, afraid to put their money to work here at home. Consider the numbers. In the second quarter, household spending posted an impressive gain of 0.6 per cent, while business investment fell two per cent. This, in turn, raises the big question facing us today: Are Canadian businesses right to be as pessimistic as they are? Or are households right to be as optimistic about the economy as their multi-year, debt-fuelled consumption binge suggests?

quote:

All the ingredients would seem to be in place for Canadian companies to drive growth. They�re flush with cash; Canadian non-financial companies have amassed a cash hoard of nearly $700 billion, which former Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney described as �dead money� back in 2012�or nearly $200 billion ago. Canadian businesses also enjoy the lowest marginal tax rate on new investment of any country in the G7. Then add in the plunging value of the loonie�a gift to exporters, courtesy, in part, of the Bank of Canada�s rate cuts.

So what�s missing? Confidence that their investments in Canada will bear results for their shareholders that outweigh the risks.

Companies have been upfront about their dour outlook. In July, StatsCan released the results of a survey of companies� spending plans for 2015, showing that, for the first time since 2009, they expect to spend less than the year before, down 4.9 per cent. A lot of that is due to the collapse in oil prices, and the knock-on effect for energy producers and suppliers. But not all of it. Likewise, the oil rout is a major factor in the onset of the recession. But, well before oil fell, business investment in Canada was consistently disappointing.

It�s not that Canadian companies have been sitting on their hands, mind you. Businesses have been investing abroad at an impressive pace. And that�s to be commended. This country has a deplorable deficit of world-beating corporations. But the extent to which companies choose to deploy their capital abroad, and not here, is effectively a vote of non-confidence in Canada�s economy.

Consumers, on the other hand, couldn�t be more bullish. At least, that�s what their actions suggest. Vehicle purchases, which hit record highs in recent months, drove the biggest increase in household spending last quarter, while strong gains for real estate brokers and the renovation sector show that enthusiasm for the housing market is alive and well.

Yet it�s not as if consumers are drawing inspiration from their paycheques. The annual growth in wages and salaries, which has been steadily slowing since peaking in early 2011 at six per cent, fell to 2.7 per cent in the second quarter. Instead, as they have for years now, households went deeper in the red, saving even less in the process.

What we have in Canada are households engaged in a massive gamble that the economy will pick up, and that the weakness we�ve seen will not spill over into the job market, thereby threatening their ability to manage their debts. (All of this, of course, presupposes that consumers behave at all rationally when confronted with free money. The jury is out on that one, too.)

In asking who will be proven right in the months to come�upbeat households or timid businesses�the key thing to remember is that businesses have far less to lose if they�re wrong; some missed opportunities, perhaps. Households, on the other hand, now carry enormous debt burdens that will become even more difficult to manage if things get worse.

Then again, if consumers even begin to retrench at this point, the main pillar keeping the economy afloat would be gone. In which case, we�d all lose.

Shop on, Canada.

hahaha

hey gently caress all of you

no seroiulsy gently caress you

# ? Sep 2, 2015 02:41

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Australian quarterly GDP growth 0.2%

Recession here we come :getin:

# ? Sep 2, 2015 02:47

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/what-the-gdp-numbers-say-about-canadas-great-economic-divide/

hahaha

hey gently caress all of you

no seroiulsy gently caress you

credit bubble and over dependence on commodity prices creates a strong economic foundation!

# ? Sep 2, 2015 03:10

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

etalian posted:

why are vancouverites so terrified of moving out of province or even out of country?

Also with a million dollars you can get many years of rent, even more if you invested it well.

The rest of the country sucks and most us are too lovely at everything to get sweet jobs in the USA.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 04:49

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Harpers says there is no recession.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 05:33

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

quote:

The Bank of Canada cut interest rates in July and could do so again this month, Lindsey predicts.

In a note on Tuesday, Lindsey wrote: "We expect further easing ahead, as investment and exports remain in contractionary territory and the economy remains vulnerable to a correction in housing and a pull-back in spending due to high (and growing) levels of household debt."

Read more: http://uk.businessinsider.com/canada-in-recession-2015-9?r=US&IR=T#ixzz3kYRlIlPW

You know what this means, housing prices are only going UP UP UP

I also liked the (Globe and Mail?) article that stated that figures are actually quite good if you exclude oil, gas and mining sectors! Why, look at that 10% increase in Real Estate Broker activity!
(I wonder what the GDP would be if you excluded *those* figures instead)

# ? Sep 2, 2015 06:04

Meat Recital: Mar 26, 2009; by zen death robot

etalian posted:

why are vancouverites so terrified of moving out of province or even out of country?

Also with a million dollars you can get many years of rent, even more if you invested it well.

I'm finishing up an apprenticeship and still have a good job (for now). Those are the two biggest things keeping me here.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 06:15

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

When I graduated the first thing I did was research average salary for my profession across the country. BC had the lowest salary and the highest cost of living. Winter sucks cold sucks snow sucks the Leafs suck but Ontario just offers more career wise.

Until I learn Finnish and blow this popsicle stand. :smug:

# ? Sep 2, 2015 06:41

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Get married to an immigrant who isn't eligible to work in the states and refuses to live anywhere other than Vancouver. :smith:

# ? Sep 2, 2015 07:11

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Pimpmust posted:

You know what this means, housing prices are only going UP UP UP

I also liked the (Globe and Mail?) article that stated that figures are actually quite good if you exclude oil, gas and mining sectors! Why, look at that 10% increase in Real Estate Broker activity!
(I wonder what the GDP would be if you excluded *those* figures instead)

hahahah yes that is the most awesome thing about today's GDP figures

# ? Sep 2, 2015 07:37

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

I'm too much of a baby to live on the east coast. I was in Ottawa in 2007 when we got like 400cm of snow that year. Never again.

I'm also too much of a baby to live in Australia again, because my idea temperature range is 0-25 degrees, and anything outside of that range is hell.

Though thanks to global warming I might have to move to Stockholm or something, it was too loving hot this summer, so I went to New Zealand.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 09:24

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

Report: Nation's Gentrified Neighborhoods Threatened By Aristocratization

WASHINGTON�According to a report released Tuesday by the Brookings Institution, a Washington-based think tank, the recent influx of exceedingly affluent powder-wigged aristocrats into the nation's gentrified urban areas is pushing out young white professionals, some of whom have lived in these neighborhoods for as many as seven years.
Multibillion-dollar castles like this one have been popping up all over Brooklyn.

Maureen Kennedy, a housing policy expert and lead author of the report, said that the enormous treasure-based wealth of the aristocracy makes it impossible for those living on modest trust funds to hold onto their co-ops and converted factory loft spaces.

"When you have a bejeweled, buckle-shoed duke willing to pay 11 or 12 times the asking price for a block of renovated brownstones�and usually up front with satchels of solid gold guineas�hardworking white-collar people who only make a few hundred thousand dollars a year simply cannot compete," Kennedy said. "If this trend continues, these exclusive, vibrant communities with their sidewalk caf�s and faux dive bars will soon be a thing of the past."

According to Kennedy, one of the most pressing concerns associated with rapid aristocratization is the drastic transformation of the metropolitan landscape in a way that fails to maximize livable space.
Incoming aristocrats are easily spotted by their distinctive dress and taste for chamber music.

"A three-block section of [Chicago neighborhood] Wicker Park that once accommodated eight families, two vintage clothing stores, a French cleaners, and a gourmet bakery has been completely razed to make way for a private livery stable and carriage house," Kennedy said. "The space is now entirely unusable for affordable upper-income condominium housing. No one can live there except for the odd stable boy or footman who gets permission to sleep in the hayloft."

Many of those affected by the ostentatious reshaping of their once purely upmarket neighborhoods said that they often wish for a return back to the privileged communities they helped to overdevelop just a few years ago. Among the first to feel the effects of the encroaching aristocracy have been local business owners like Fort Greene, Brooklyn resident Neil Getz.

"Around here, you used to be able to get a Fair-Trade latte and a chocolate-chip croissant for only eight bucks," said Getz, who is planning to move back in with his parents after being forced out of the lease on his organic grocery store by a harpsichord purveyor. "Now it's all tearooms and private salon gatherings catered with champagne and suckling pig. Who can afford that?"

"It's just a terrible shame," Getz continued. "There was this great little shop right across the street from my duplex apartment where I bought my baby daughter a Ramones onesie a couple of years ago, just after she was born. That whole block is an opera house now."

The aristocracy has adamantly dismissed claims that the sweeping changes are detrimental to the merely wealthy who have been displaced, and many persons of noble blood have pointed to aristocratization's benefits. These include lower crime rates attributed to new punishments, such as public floggings and the pillory, which are primarily meted out for maintaining direct eye contact with members of the highest class.

"These accusations are pure, slanderous rubbish," said Lord Nathan Dunkirk III, the owner of a prodigious manor house that, along with its steeplechase course and topiary garden, sits on what was once the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco. "If anything, the layabouts and wastrels have been afforded a veritable glut of new and felicitous opportunities as bootblacks and scullery maids."

Other aristocrats have echoed Dunkirk and have additionally deflected blame onto regification, a process by which they say they were priced out of their vast rural holdings by kings who wished to consolidate property and develop monumental palatial estates.

http://www.theonion.com/article/report-nations-gentrified-neighborhoods-threatened-2419

# ? Sep 2, 2015 10:33

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Bravo Onion, bravo. :golfclap:

# ? Sep 2, 2015 10:41

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

I keep saying, if you can handle the brutal winters Manitoba really isn't that bad. It's also the last place left in Canada where you can find a good paying job and affordable housing within 10km of each other.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 13:32

apatheticman: May 13, 2003; Wedge Regret

EvilJoven posted:

I keep saying, if you can handle the brutal winters Manitoba really isn't that bad. It's also the last place left in Canada where you can find a good paying job and affordable housing within 10km of each other.

Brutal winters, brutal summers with lots of mosquitoes.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 13:48

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Xoidanor posted:

Bravo Onion, bravo.

Isn't that sorta what's actually happening in Vancouver?

# ? Sep 2, 2015 14:19

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Raenir Salazar posted:

Isn't that sorta what's actually happening in Vancouver?

The best satire is firmly rooted in reality.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 15:16

jet sanchEz: Oct 24, 2001; Lousy Manipulative Dog

resistentialism posted:

Another look at this dumb house that sold, but the description made me smile:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/09/01/unlivable-beach-house-sells-for-1-million.html

That house is a 3 minute walk to the beach, I would have bought it had I the money.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 16:53

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

hahahah yes that is the most awesome thing about today's GDP figures

The Canadian economy and debt problem only looks good if cherry pick the right numbers.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 01:04

ColdBlooded: Jul 15, 2001; Ask me how to run a good team into the ground.

apatheticman posted:

Brutal winters, brutal summers with lots of mosquitoes.

Summers are actually pretty awesome here. Maybe I'm just desensitized to mosquitoes, but I don't notice them for the most part.
Winters are terrible, but at least we get lots of sun!

# ? Sep 3, 2015 03:21

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Some people get attacked by mosquitoes more than others for whatever reason. They don't bother me much.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 03:41

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

I'm basically the mosquito equivalent of a bright light to a moth.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 03:47

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Dreylad posted:

Some people get attacked by mosquitoes more than others for whatever reason. They don't bother me much.

Yeah I know a couple people like this. If you go out on a hike bring them along, they end up taking all the bites for the party.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 03:57

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Baronjutter posted:

Yeah I know a couple people like this. If you go out on a hike bring them along, they end up taking all the bites for the party.

Just never let them know why you invite them.

The only time I got chewed up is when I lived in Ottawa and played city rec league soccer. We had to play in some loving new field surrounded by farmer's fields outside of Barrhaven it was awful.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 03:59

sat on my keys!: Oct 2, 2014

Dreylad posted:

Just never let them know why you invite them.

The only time I got chewed up is when I lived in Ottawa and played city rec league soccer. We had to play in some loving new field surrounded by farmer's fields outside of Barrhaven it was awful.

Barrhaven? Awful? You slay me, sir.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 05:35

OhYeah: Jan 20, 2007; 1. Currently the most prevalent form of decision-making in the western world

2. While you are correct in saying that the society owns

3. You have not for a second demonstrated here why

4. I love the way that you equate "state" with "bureaucracy". Is that how you really feel about the state

jet sanchEz posted:

That house is a 3 minute walk to the beach, I would have bought it had I the money.

You do understand that you can get a house with that money on Malibu?

# ? Sep 3, 2015 11:32

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

OhYeah posted:

You do understand that you can get a house with that money on Malibu?

I'm not going to say there aren't places in Malibu that go for ~$1 million, but they are all, in my experience, horribly shaped or without access (and have no structure) or condos (i.e. not houses).

# ? Sep 3, 2015 14:43

OhYeah: Jan 20, 2007; 1. Currently the most prevalent form of decision-making in the western world

2. While you are correct in saying that the society owns

3. You have not for a second demonstrated here why

4. I love the way that you equate "state" with "bureaucracy". Is that how you really feel about the state

MickeyFinn posted:

I'm not going to say there aren't places in Malibu that go for ~$1 million, but they are all, in my experience, horribly shaped or without access (and have no structure) or condos (i.e. not houses).

We have looked through some real estate ads in Malibu in this very thread earlier in this year and you can get a house in very good condition (not "unlivable") more or less on the beach.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 16:05

jet sanchEz: Oct 24, 2001; Lousy Manipulative Dog

What does Malibu have to do with Toronto?

# ? Sep 3, 2015 16:15

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

jet sanchEz posted:

What does Malibu have to do with Toronto?

The implication, I believe, is that it would be preferable to live by the ocean in California than to live in a lovely condo in Toronto (or even Vancouver!). I would agree with that proposition. Of course, if I owned Vancouver and Hell, I'd probably live in Hell and rent Vancouver.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 16:44

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

jet sanchEz posted:

What does Malibu have to do with Toronto?

We're comparing the price of beach front property in somehwere that isn't a frozen shithole half the year to somewhere which is. You'll never guess which one is cheaper! (The answer will blow you away)

# ? Sep 3, 2015 16:48

jet sanchEz: Oct 24, 2001; Lousy Manipulative Dog

I'd like to live in California too but I live in Toronto.

Sometimes this thread is like an echo chamber. I have well educated friends that have bought homes in the past couple of years and they feel that the market is likely to correct but, so what? The prices will go back up again eventually.

I guess it helps that they've all bought houses that they can afford and they have bought these homes to live in and not as an investment.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 16:58

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

OhYeah posted:

We have looked through some real estate ads in Malibu in this very thread earlier in this year and you can get a house in very good condition (not "unlivable") more or less on the beach.

Like I said, I'm sure you can find a house in the Malibu city limits that meets the criteria you laid out. But having spent the last 10 years living close to Malibu, I can assure you that this is pretty rare. I quick scan of Zillow tells me that there are 8 "houses" (one is a CGI image and is called a studio) under $1.1 million in Malibu, 3 of which are "more or less on the beach" and not in the Santa Monica mountains, compared to the 219 listed at any price. Anyway, I'm not going to pursue this any further. It is possible, but not likely.

Canada still sucks though.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 17:10

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

California is too, hot, drought ridden, over crowded and over due to fall into the sea.

You can keep it.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 17:12

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

The more useful comparison is the cost of renting versus owning in the same place. My friend lives in Toronto long term with his wife and two kids and they rent because they keep finding good places that are $500-$1000 a month less than the cost of owning.

Trick is too find an owner who owns it outright rather than some speculating rear end in a top hat trying to cover the cost of his mortgage. It's very easy to tell the two apart which is why you want to be looking at older buildings.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 17:14

jet sanchEz: Oct 24, 2001; Lousy Manipulative Dog

I have a friend in Newport Beach and everything shuts at 7pm, there is very little to do once it gets dark, it is a beautiful place to live but boring. I'd retire there, maybe.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 17:16

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

cowofwar posted:

The more useful comparison is the cost of renting versus owning in the same place. My friend lives in Toronto long term with his wife and two kids and they rent because they keep finding good places that are $500-$1000 a month less than the cost of owning.

Which is pretty crazy when you think about it. I've looked at rental prices within a reasonable commute of the Toronto city center, and they make Vancouvers rapacious landlords look cheap in comparison. Very, very cheap. The rents there are just off in la-la land.

jet sanchEz posted:

I have a friend in Newport Beach and everything shuts at 7pm, there is very little to do once it gets dark, it is a beautiful place to live but boring. I'd retire there, maybe.

Tell us more about how you and your friends justify the insane cost of housing in Canada. :allears:

# ? Sep 3, 2015 17:17

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

jet sanchEz posted:

I'd like to live in California too but I live in Toronto.

Sometimes this thread is like an echo chamber. I have well educated friends that have bought homes in the past couple of years and they feel that the market is likely to correct but, so what? The prices will go back up again eventually.

This thread is so cute. I can't wait to see how many people act like it ain't a thang after they lose 30% of their ~equity. Then their job. Then their partners job. Then the repo man comes to take their ~premium luxury car away.

Then the municipality starts cutting services because housing permit revenue has dropped to zero.

Yeah a housing crash isn't going to affect anyone. House prices will just go back up again in the ~long term~

# ? Sep 3, 2015 17:28

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# ? May 24, 2024 17:19

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

My wife and I pay $1750/mo to rent a nice apartment in Vancouver (yes, we're yuppies). There's an identical one for sale in the building for $500k, which makes for a very natural buy-vs-rent experiment. We could easily afford to buy it, but there's no universe where the financials make sense once you tally up all the holding costs and transaction costs.

You'd have to be an idiot to buy this place, I reckon.

# ? Sep 3, 2015 17:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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