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I think my favourite instance of skill disparity is the scene in AGE where Kio sucks so much he manages to lose twice in one fight and complains that his machine can't keep up with his anymore. Meanwhile his dad fights the same enemy to a standstill where piloting a Gundam that's twenty years out of date.
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Sep 4, 2015 08:10
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Did we all forget the part where Fumina scratchbuilds a gunpla that is 1) entirely made out of support accessories for her teammates, 2) that she has to pilot manually and separately when they separate, because that's what the rules say about combiners with a single pilot and 3) that can also transform into a non-SD combat form? For all the fuss made about Yuuma being a builder, he's just some dork who paints well. Fumina is the Iori equivalent in BFT (which is why the show tried to force the bullshit "rivalry" with Shia on her) except she can also pilot well. She really should have been the BFT protagonist. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 10:08
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Did we all forget the part where Fumina scratchbuilds a gunpla that is 1) entirely made out of support accessories for her teammates, 2) that she has to pilot manually and separately when they separate, because that's what the rules say about combiners with a single pilot and 3) that can also transform into a non-SD combat form? The real problem with Yuuma is they tried to show him as an artistic builder rather than an innovative one, which just isn't going to fly unless you have a movie-quality animation budget because anything he builds looks the same as any other kit detail-wise. That and he's nothing but a sniper in a series filled with far more interesting and innovative weapons/tricks.
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Sep 4, 2015 10:13
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Eej posted:I know that's what the wiki says but the only similarity is the legs and the entire upper half (which is honestly the major visual point of most MS) is very Exia, especially the head which is fairly unique across all Gundams, The legs, big rear end back fin things, arms, and lower torso are Sakibure. The only similarity between G-Portent and Exia's heads is the V-Fin design. The torso in general is half-Exia, half-Sakibure; it's a homage to the Exia like the Transient is a homage to the Reborns/00 without really being built on the same chassis. Onmi posted:Going back to "Best Old Type" I always throw in a vote for Kou. While he starts crap, and he never achieves anything (due to the nature of his series) he's a ridiculous pilot who fought for over 24 hours slaying mooks. Oh yeah in his nearly spent mobile armor he lost to Gato who'd slept and had just entered the battlefield in an untouched MA. But seriously he's pretty baller. At least when it comes to "protagonist Old Types" Kou took a brand spanking newly upgraded GP-01 totally modified for space combat out to fight a one on one duel with Gato in a damaged GP-02, a suit never designed to fight other mobile suits that lacked even basic ranged weaponry, and barely managed a double KO. He wrecked an absolute shitload of enemies with the GP-03, but the GP-03 was a flying invincible doom fortress with an I-Field and more weapons loaded onto it than the combined arsenal of every other protagonist suit in the entire early UC, so it would be pretty loving depressing if he couldn't manage that. Kou isn't even the most competent oldtype pilot on the Albion, nevermind in the early UC; I'm fairly certain the only pilot on the Albion who wouldn't do a better job than Kou in general would be Keith. Neddy Seagoon posted:The real problem with Yuuma is they tried to show him as an artistic builder rather than an innovative one, which just isn't going to fly unless you have a movie-quality animation budget because anything he builds looks the same as any other kit detail-wise. That and he's nothing but a sniper in a series filled with far more interesting and innovative weapons/tricks. He started as a sniper, but by the middle of the series his role had evolved to high mobility mid-ranged speedster, with Fumina taking over the heavy ranged artillery role and Sekai remaining in the close combat role. I felt that Yuuma's fight choreography was some of the best that the protagonist team had in BFT. The scenes where they actually animated him using his speed instead of standing stock still and shooting a beam rifle or charging directly at someone were really loving cool, and his decision to suicide on the Megashiki was rad as gently caress. He certainly had more cool fight moments than Fumina got, since she spent the first half of the series blowing herself up to become spare parts and most of the latter half transforming into Real Mode, firing a single Winning Beam, and then she was done. Kanos fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 10:16
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So someone posted this many pages ago when I asked about the original Colony Drop in UC http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/archive/gundamcentury.html It's a cool read and highlights a lot of stuff I've never heard discussed much about how Zeon prepared for the war and was good at eliminating targets in much more subtle ways than colony drops .They tend to be portrayed as big brutes and stuff but it wasn't all that. I just have to wonder, as I read all these interesting details about the One Week War, why hasn't that been its own series? They could easily make a whole OVA series about it. It features some of the most important moments in the history of the universe and many great battles. The preparation for Operation British ,escorting the colony to Earth, thefight to hold it off - wouldn't this all make for fascinating stuff to see? I just have always found the early war stuff more intriguing than the events in the actual show and I don't see why they haven't given this amazing part of UC its due.
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Sep 4, 2015 12:04
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Because there aren't many model kits you can sell with it. "Zaku II: Nuclear and Colony Gassing Edition!" doesn't really sound like something kids would snap up either. Also I don't know about you, but something like three episodes of civilians dying horrifically just sounds depressing to me. Some stuff is better off as backstory. Eej posted:I know that's what the wiki says Wiki nothing, that's literally where the thing's name comes from. GNW-100P is also a letter off from GNW-100A. Transient and The End are completely original, but Portent is pretty obviously supposed to be referencing Sakibure more than anything.
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Sep 4, 2015 12:21
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Onmi posted:Going back to "Best Old Type" I always throw in a vote for Kou. While he starts crap, and he never achieves anything (due to the nature of his series) he's a ridiculous pilot who fought for over 24 hours slaying mooks. Oh yeah in his nearly spent mobile armor he lost to Gato who'd slept and had just entered the battlefield in an untouched MA. But seriously he's pretty baller. At least when it comes to "protagonist Old Types" If South Burning had been flying the Gundam Project units, Gato would have been dead by the end of the second episode along with his entire strike force. I'd also like to see more of the One Week War and the initial month of the conflict. Though the rapid death of roughly 8-10 billion people is a bit of a downer. But regardless, I'd like to see it, because even though Mobile Suits decided the outcome of the OYW, it was still the most "conventional" war in the Gundam franchise, as the bulk of the fighting was done with ships, planes, tanks and infantry, even after the introduction of MS units. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 13:53
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Arcsquad12 posted:If South Burning had been flying the Gundam Project units,
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Sep 4, 2015 14:06
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I think people are forgetting how incredibly lovely the GP-02 is at combat. Kou is a terrible pilot, and his only use is to pawn off his GP-03 in SRW games to Amuro or Char.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:36
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Put Yazan into the GP units, he'd even take out Bask Ohm 4 year early and save people a lot of heartache.
TNG fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 16:36
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Kou is such a bad pilot that he made his "enemies" stronger. Like, the Gerbera Tetra? Wouldn't have even existed if Kou didn't gently caress up with the GP-01 so hard.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:39
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We can take satisfaction, at least, knowing that nearly every one of the gently caress-ups on the Albion went on to get blown up by Camille. Best non-Newtype pilot is Bernie PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 16:46
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NikkolasKing posted:I just have to wonder, as I read all these interesting details about the One Week War, why hasn't that been its own series? It is. It's called Gundam: The Origin. The flashback segment of The Origin covers the buildup to the war. It even has a tremendously uncomfortable chapter set inside a colony as it is being gassed.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:47
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PoptartsNinja posted:We can take satisfaction, at least, knowing that nearly every one of the gently caress-ups on the Albion went on to get blown up by Camille. I don't know how I feel about Camile and friends fragging Monsha. Okay, I guess? Maybe he just died when the nuke went off at Jaburo.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:04
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Actually, come to think of it, Loran and Harry aren't Newtypes (it's specifically why Loran can't draw out more of the Turn A's full, insane potential even if he wants to), which puts them in the running, and they're fairly top-tier.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:52
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Darth Walrus posted:Actually, come to think of it, Loran and Harry aren't Newtypes (it's specifically why Loran can't draw out more of the Turn A's full, insane potential even if he wants to), which puts them in the running, and they're fairly top-tier. Loran honestly isn't a great pilot. He's not terrible but he's explicitly a fairly okay pilot carried but a machine that is effectively a god. SRW actually balances this out by having him had mediocre stats but natural SP Regen. (And everyone still kicks his rear end out of Turn-A for Amuro or Char!) Harry's a very solid pilot but hard to judge because he isn't up against a lot of high-duty enemies. Turn-A and G-Reco both have a lot of "generally average pilots in absurdly high-end mecha" going on.
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Sep 4, 2015 19:55
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Tae posted:Kou is a terrible pilot, and his only use is to pawn off his GP-03 in SRW games to Amuro or Char.
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Sep 4, 2015 19:59
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AradoBalanga posted:Except for the times when Kou gets Strike and every Newtype pilot is only given Focus to work with, meaning Kou is more reliable as Dendrobium's pilot simply because he can guarantee a 100% hit instead of relying on blood sacrifices to the RNG gods in order to hit something. This has become less of a thing as time has gone on since ever since Alpha 3 or so they've tended to give the major newtypes Sense, which is a superior version of Strike.
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Sep 4, 2015 20:12
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Kanos posted:This has become less of a thing as time has gone on since ever since Alpha 3 or so they've tended to give the major newtypes Sense, which is a superior version of Strike. Granted, Alpha 3 was the last time 0083 showed up in a brand new game, though.
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Sep 4, 2015 20:18
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AradoBalanga posted:True. Alpha 2 was the only time in history where Kou could actually beat Gato in a fair one on one encounter.
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Sep 4, 2015 20:59
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Ul Urian is a fairly competent pilot too.
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Sep 4, 2015 21:11
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I know it runs counter to one of the primary themes of (Tomino, at least) Gundam series, but I'd love to see a show with an older protagonist. Nothing against the younger ones, but it's different enough that I'd be interested to see what a talented director could do with the concept. It's pretty shocking when you consider in the old series that almost nobody is older than 40, and then you realize that the majority of older people are dead, leaving it to the young. Like I said, the responsibility of youth to change the world is pretty much integral to Gundam, so this isn't that surprising. I just want some more Rals or Revils.
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Sep 5, 2015 04:06
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Ral is 35. 
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Sep 5, 2015 04:16
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BlitzBlast posted:Ral is 35. That's ancient in anime world.
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Sep 5, 2015 04:19
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C'mon guys, there's been heroic old dudes in Gundam
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Sep 5, 2015 04:22
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Sep 5, 2015 04:28
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Victory Gundam rules.
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Sep 5, 2015 05:11
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Man, Old Man Tomino sure likes to talk poo poo on Victory, but I liked it. I think he just hated the acquisition of Sunrise by Bandai so much that it colored everything, or that's probably just my own disgust talking. Certainly had a great soundtrack. Victory had a lot of insane moments, but one of the things I'll always praise Tomino over the other Gundam directors, barring Imagawa, is that he's much more capable of visually dynamic, memorable, and interesting storytelling. Earlier in the thread there was someone decrying Zeta Gundam's battle scenes as mediocre. I disagree because there's a very well thought out choreography and rhythm to them, spiced up with Tomino's flare for cut-ins and other effects. The ladies in bikinis with bazookas fighting the V2 is batshit, but it's something you'll remember and it's composed in a very striking way, especially with the horrible violence inherent in that scene. Tomino's visual language isn't always something people might want to read, but goddamn won't it leave its mark on your mind. TNG fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 06:30
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Victory Gundam is real good
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Sep 5, 2015 06:37
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Arcsquad12 posted:I know it runs counter to one of the primary themes of (Tomino, at least) Gundam series, but I'd love to see a show with an older protagonist. Nothing against the younger ones, but it's different enough that I'd be interested to see what a talented director could do with the concept. It's pretty shocking when you consider in the old series that almost nobody is older than 40, and then you realize that the majority of older people are dead, leaving it to the young. Like I said, the responsibility of youth to change the world is pretty much integral to Gundam, so this isn't that surprising. I just want some more Rals or Revils. You forget Howard.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:42
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Victory Gundam I think suffers for not really having a lot to say. I don't think Tomino precisely half-assed it but there's very little heart in it and beyond the weird stuff about womanhood it honestly is a fairly hollow series. The only Tomino series I can think of beyond Victory that I'd say that about is Brain Power'd and Brain Power'd was pretty much Tomino Is PIssed Off About Evangelion's Popularity And Not Much Else: The Series.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:46
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I liked the stuff in it about religion and how it melds with state political power, and where sources of political legitimacy come from. The Newtype journey from theorized ideal by a crackpot philosopher, to weapon of war, to religious icon--it's kind of funny how it all blends so easily.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:50
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chumbler posted:You forget Howard. The man wears his sunglasses inside his spacesuit.That is commitment to fashion and I respect it. ImpAtom posted:Victory Gundam I think suffers for not really having a lot to say. I don't think Tomino precisely half-assed it but there's very little heart in it and beyond the weird stuff about womanhood it honestly is a fairly hollow series. The only Tomino series I can think of beyond Victory that I'd say that about is Brain Power'd and Brain Power'd was pretty much Tomino Is PIssed Off About Evangelion's Popularity And Not Much Else: The Series. You'd think Tomino would get along with Anno. I mean, their series are largely the result of both of them being off their meds, or so I've heard. That seems to be one of the bigger complaints about Victory - it was Peak Tomino Is Depressed and Misanthropic and thus dark and depressing to a ridiculous degree. Just what I've read on a board that regards Victory as only marginally better than AGE.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:53
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NikkolasKing posted:That seems to be one of the bigger complaints about Victory - it was Peak Tomino Is Depressed and Misanthropic and thus dark and depressing to a ridiculous degree. Just what I've read on a board that regards Victory as only marginally better than AGE. That sounds like a terrible board.
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Sep 5, 2015 07:08
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ImpAtom posted:Victory Gundam I think suffers for not really having a lot to say. I don't think Tomino precisely half-assed it but there's very little heart in it and beyond the weird stuff about womanhood it honestly is a fairly hollow series. The only Tomino series I can think of beyond Victory that I'd say that about is Brain Power'd and Brain Power'd was pretty much Tomino Is PIssed Off About Evangelion's Popularity And Not Much Else: The Series. I agree with you that Victory isn't really used to moralize the way 0079, Zeta, and CCA were, but I'd say that it's not really necessary for a series to have an intentionally deep underlying message to tell an okay story or to be a good watch. Victory has some excellent fight choreography(some of the best in the franchise), mostly good animation, good music, a fair amount of memorable characters(either because they were good or because they were so loving weird they're hard to forget), and a coherent plotline with a tidy and sensical resolution. NikkolasKing posted:That seems to be one of the bigger complaints about Victory - it was Peak Tomino Is Depressed and Misanthropic and thus dark and depressing to a ridiculous degree. Just what I've read on a board that regards Victory as only marginally better than AGE. Victory isn't the best series in the franchise by any means but putting it in the same galaxy as AGE is deeply insulting to Victory. Victory has an absolute shitload of character death in it and has a lot of weird Tominoisms vis a vis women and their role in society but is overall pretty damned optimistic. It's not a brutal pointless slaughterhouse of a show with no hope or purpose. To put it in context for a show you've watched, NK, 0083 is way the gently caress more depressing in resolution than Victory is because the entirety of 0083 is ultimately a machiavellian plot by evil fuckers to put themselves in power and incidentally results in the failure of the protagonists to accomplish anything and the deaths of millions of people for absolutely no reason. 0080 is also way more dark and depressing than Victory(not that that makes 0080 in any way bad).
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Sep 5, 2015 07:10
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Hm, fair enough. This is honestly the first bit of extended praise I've seen for Victory on here or anywhere else. I'm fine with it being a cool series, I just didn't know and was going off what i had read up to this point. Although, now I'm kinda wondering, what is the most dark and depressing Gundam? I always thought it was Victory but now I know better, I'm curious.
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Sep 5, 2015 07:39
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NikkolasKing posted:Although, now I'm kinda wondering, what is the most dark and depressing Gundam? I always thought it was Victory but now I know better, I'm curious. MS IGLOO: The Gravity Front is just a parade of characters dying in increasingly pointless and stupid ways while Supreme Commander Feddie Whiplash twirls his moustache in the background. Keep in mind "dark and depressing" does not correlate with "is a good show" in this example.
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Sep 5, 2015 07:45
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It's Build Fighters Try. No matter how much you hope, the villains always win. It's IGLOO. EDIT: Though if you count the whole drat thing as dramatic irony, Unicorn is pretty high up there too. It's quite literally This Was All Pointless: The OVA.
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Sep 5, 2015 07:46
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BlitzBlast posted:It's Build Fighters Try. Build Fighters Try even goes so far as to tank its own ending with a timeskip. You know, instead of going on to the World Cup because the Nationals were so drat important.
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Sep 5, 2015 07:49
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BlitzBlast posted:EDIT: Though if you count the whole drat thing as dramatic irony, Unicorn is pretty high up there too. It's quite literally This Was All Pointless: The OVA. 
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Sep 5, 2015 10:03
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