Genetic Toaster posted:Yeah, an ending that explained why Liquid hated Big Boss so much added nothing to the game at all. Mr. Fortitude posted:That ending also explained why Venom falls to the dark side and becomes more and more desperate so to say it's pointless and gives no explanation of characters motives is pretty blatantly untrue. It does not do any of that. It also doesn't explain Liquid's motivations for leaving in the first place. Liquid says "oh man I'm gonna kill you", but his actions up to that point, during, and prior remain unexplained. I particularly enjoy the plot device colorblindness as motivator for accidental shooting because BB can't...see different sizes for some reason?
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Sep 5, 2015 00:19
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I'm surprised they didn't make a bigger deal out of developing your own nuclear arsenal. The fact that it's optional feels pretty odd - is Battle Gear nuclear-equipped? I kept expecting ZEKE to show up again since theoretically it should have been undamaged if it was sunk to the bottom of the ocean before the XOF attack. Big Boss actually dropping a nuke would have been really cool, not only as a way to solidify his desperation / fall from legendary heroism, but just because it would have made for some great conflict and tension in the storyline. You could have had Kaz urging him to do it and Ocelot telling him not to, since he saw what nukes did in person during the Virtuous Mission. I mean, part of BB's legacy in the other MGS games, and the reason he is so feared in the first place, is because of his access to nuclear weapons. Being a hypocrite and using Venom for his own purposes is definitely a lovely thing to do, but the game also says that Venom wanted to do it, which makes thing a little more gray. Unrelated, but I'm kind of confused how the double Big Bosses works with MG1's plot. So Venom is the one that is secretly running Outer Heaven, while the real Big Boss is heading FOXHOUND for the CIA, right? Which kind of makes the whole point of having a phantom seem pointless, if the real Big Boss' location is known and nobody knows about the decoy. So the world learns about Outer Heaven, but doesn't know Venom is running it. They hire the real Big Boss to infiltrate it, but Gray Fox gets captured. The ending cinematic implies that Venom is the one who sets up Operation Intrude, correct? His plan is to feed Solid fake intel, but he doesn't expect Solid to actually succeed. Are we meant to assume that the real Big Boss wanted Venom dead by that point? I guess I just don't understand the reason for the decoy Big Boss if the real one is just going to go run a unit for the CIA that Cipher is very obviously going to know about. I like the story this game tells outside of the context of the rest of the MGS games, but I really wish they'd told the Skullface / Quiet / Venom story in the first chapter and then bridged the gap between MGS3 and MG1 in chapter 2. \ I hate to sound like I'm ragging on this game so much because it really is amazingly fun to play - probably the most fun I've had with a game ever.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:39
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Come to think of it, what happened to going back to Camp Omega for a special mission if you transferred a save from Ground Zeroes? Did that end up being cut too?
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Sep 5, 2015 00:40
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Come to think of it, what happened to going back to Camp Omega for a special mission if you transferred a save from Ground Zeroes? Did that end up being cut too? might be, havent heard confirmation. that said the amount of people who have 100% that and 100% tpp and can actually get online to use it in the first place is rather slim. still nothing about the msx tape either or the big connection thing that hasnt been done before thing but im starting to suspect a mistranslation on that part. or maybe its still some super weird unlock thing like the peace walker final battle was that no one has figured out yet.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:53
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Vikar Jerome posted:might be, havent heard confirmation. that said the amount of people who have 100% that and 100% tpp and can actually get online to use it in the first place is rather slim. still nothing about the msx tape either or the big connection thing that hasnt been done before thing but im starting to suspect a mistranslation on that part. Wouldn't the subtitle dump have shown the answer? Which I think was that there wasn't anything else.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:58
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Kojima said the Camp Omega return was something "that hasn't been seen in gaming" so I will be super disappointed if it got cut. I want to know what the hell that means.
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Sep 5, 2015 02:26
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So has anyone figured out unlocking chapter 46 yet?
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Sep 5, 2015 02:42
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Alain Post posted:So has anyone figured out unlocking chapter 46 yet? I got it by total accident. Just complete all of the yellow side-ops and have Mother Base upgraded enough (no idea how much is "enough" but I had everything at lvl 3 and the command platform at 4.
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Sep 5, 2015 02:49
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Kojima said the Camp Omega return was something "that hasn't been seen in gaming" so I will be super disappointed if it got cut. I want to know what the hell that means. Given all the data-mining that goes on these days, if it hasn't been found yet it doesn't exist. It probably tied into the Medic reveal somehow.
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Sep 5, 2015 03:03
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Kojima said the Camp Omega return was something "that hasn't been seen in gaming" so I will be super disappointed if it got cut. I want to know what the hell that means. Kojima is a very credible source.  
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Sep 5, 2015 03:14
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Well I can almost believe Kojima really thinks that. At the very least, it's a bit different from talking up an awesome thing that just doesn't even exist.
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Sep 5, 2015 03:18
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Discendo Vox posted:It does not do any of that. It also doesn't explain Liquid's motivations for leaving in the first place. Liquid says "oh man I'm gonna kill you", but his actions up to that point, during, and prior remain unexplained. I particularly enjoy the plot device colorblindness as motivator for accidental shooting because BB can't...see different sizes for some reason? i'll be honest, Kojima trying to tie up every plot end results in MGS4, so i'm kind of fine with him leaving things open. things are more interesting that way.
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Sep 5, 2015 04:42
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It's just kind of funny because basically all he had to do was flesh out an already existent plot, but on the other hand I can totally understand why Kojima might be completely tired of / feel constrained by "the canon" and people's need to obsessively catalog and codify every single aspect of every franchise they enjoy. I'm guilty of doing that, too - I fully admit I would have eaten up the 100% fanservice cameos and story aspects, but oh well. It's still a decent story on its own merits, as far as video games go, and the gameplay is more than enough to make up for it. Honestly the two things I am most bummed about are not being able to rampage across the open world with a Metal Gear and not getting to invade the base I spent the whole game building as Solid Snake. A cutscene where BB is watching Solid totally gently caress up Mother Base and realizing who it is would have been pretty amazing. I was really sure that was going to be in the game in some capacity. Basically I wish they had gone all-out crazy with the two major mechanics this game introduced.
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Sep 5, 2015 05:27
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Kojima's avoidance of involving or mentioning Solid Snake in this game is really weird and obvious. I think he's only directly mentioned once. Like poo poo, a simple voice-over of the opening to MG1 would've been fine.
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Sep 5, 2015 05:30
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Yeah, considering LET is the reason BB and Cipher part ways, I was expecting it to be a much bigger deal. Venom just does not seem to give a poo poo about it (though I guess it's kind of unclear on when he "remembers" that he is a decoy? If he knows it the entire time I suppose that's a pretty good reason not to care). He doesn't really seem to care about the existence of another Metal Gear, either.
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Sep 5, 2015 05:34
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Chico should've replaced Quiet. I just dont understand what the angle was with the character, she just seems Mary Sue as gently caress. But Im sure this has been discussed/whined about at length so I wont go on  Game owns either way, it'd be neat to eventually hear about exactly what was left on the cutting room floor aside from the whole Eli Island thing. Pequod was doing God's work in the end boss fight either way. A true hero.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:22
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Yeah, considering LET is the reason BB and Cipher part ways, I was expecting it to be a much bigger deal. Venom just does not seem to give a poo poo about it (though I guess it's kind of unclear on when he "remembers" that he is a decoy? If he knows it the entire time I suppose that's a pretty good reason not to care). He doesn't really seem to care about the existence of another Metal Gear, either. He has all of the knowledge of Big Boss on his missions and history implanted into him by Zero. Big Boss even says that they are the same in how they think. The Phantom Snake seems like he's less thrilled about all of it by the end though and I think that's why he flips out and takes over outer heaven in MG1. Big Boss and Cipher parted ways over the ideas behind the Boss' ideal world. Cipher was founded on eliminating war and soldiers while Big Boss wanted an eternal war for soldiers to be not be made useless. The clones were the final straw between them.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:53
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randombattle posted:He has all of the knowledge of Big Boss on his missions and history implanted into him by Zero. Big Boss even says that they are the same in how they think. The Phantom Snake seems like he's less thrilled about all of it by the end though and I think that's why he flips out and takes over outer heaven in MG1. Oh yeah I know *why* the LET project got between them, what I mean is that it doesn't seem like a big deal in this game. Like when Eli shows up and there's even the possibility of him being a clone, Venom doesn't really seem to give a poo poo. (Also not sure why Kaz even bothers with the DNA test since he knows what the answer will be). Skull Face ends up taking center stage to the point that Zero is just hand-waved away, when really him and the LET program should have probably been a bigger deal in the story, especially considering how thematically relevant clones would be in a game about Big Boss making a different kind of clone. Just feels kind of weird that the big split that basically sets up all of the other MGS games feels so secondary. As for Venom, it's weird because Kaz says in one of the tapes that he even really believes he is Big Boss by this point, so I'm not sure if learning his true identity is supposed to be as big a reveal for him as it is for us, or what. Venom apparently agreed to the switcheroo (Kaz says "he wanted to do this" to the real Big Boss), so does some part of him know he is a decoy all along, or does he realize it later?
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Sep 5, 2015 07:19
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So now that I've finished the game, any idea what the red light door one floor from phantom Paz is for? Also the game and listening to audio tapes did nothing to make me want Sutherland over David Hayter, John Cygan, or Richard Doyle. The ending was also dumb as gently caress (and not in a fun way like MGS2) but at least I had fun with the gameplay the whole way through.
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Sep 5, 2015 07:51
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It's bad that I definitely want DLC.
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Sep 5, 2015 08:54
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lovely Wizard posted:So now that I've finished the game, any idea what the red light door one floor from phantom Paz is for?  in terms of what it means for him throughout the series.
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Sep 5, 2015 14:58
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Big Boss actually dropping a nuke would have been really cool, not only as a way to solidify his desperation / fall from legendary heroism, but just because it would have made for some great conflict and tension in the storyline. You could have had Kaz urging him to do it and Ocelot telling him not to, since he saw what nukes did in person during the Virtuous Mission. Big Boss dropping a nuke would wipe the twist of Metal Gear 1 from the record. A small military nation - presumably already under surveillance - conducting actual nuclear tests or an attack with nuclear weapons would immediately vilify Big Boss to the rest of the world. I don't see a guy who nuked a population centre or military base from his private army fortress being invited to take command of a Special Forces unit that later infiltrates a private army fortress to prevent a nuclear attack. quote:Unrelated, but I'm kind of confused how the double Big Bosses works with MG1's plot. So Venom is the one that is secretly running Outer Heaven, while the real Big Boss is heading FOXHOUND for the CIA, right? Which kind of makes the whole point of having a phantom seem pointless, if the real Big Boss' location is known and nobody knows about the decoy. Here is how I interpret it: Big Boss is using Venom Snake not only as a decoy, but as a leadership presence for Mother Base and Outer Heaven, while he himself tries to clear his public image by getting cozy with the United States and taking command of FOXHOUND. At this point, the Patriot AIs are a work-in-progress, and it's debatable if SIGINT or Para-Medic are aware of what Big Boss has been actually doing behind the scenes. Maybe he convinced them he was returning to the Patriots. In any case, by becoming FOXHOUND's commander, Big Boss is attempting to ward off any suspicion by the Patriots that he is still affiliated with oil rig mercenary nations. A Special Forces appointment is usually kept confidential from the public, so it's possible that his men at Outer Heaven are unlikely to hear and spread rumours about Big Boss somehow commanding both FOXHOUND and Outer Heaven at the same time. As far as the Patriots and Outer Heaven are concerned, they both have the real Big Boss. Where it gets fuzzy is during the actual Operation: Intrude mission. The obvious question is whether Big Boss and Venom Snake plotted that one together, or if it was the result of Venom Snake actually going rogue. It seems more likely that Big Boss was feeding intel to Venom Snake while guiding Solid Snake through Outer Heaven, but with that little tidbit at the end of Phantom Pain where Kaz states his intention to side with Venom Snake and turn him against Big Boss, the Outer Heaven uprising may have actually been an unplanned act perpetrated by Venom Snake at Kaz's encouragement.
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Sep 5, 2015 15:20
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CrashCat posted:The tapes are way more interesting than the cutscenes in most cases right through and including the end. The bit about Strangelove and what she did for Hal is particularly Hal is an anime nerd because his dad was literally Gendo from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Can't really blame him for ending up the way he is when his dad is a total psycho and his mother was crazy enough to think he was also The Boss' son.
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Sep 5, 2015 16:43
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So what happens in Side Ops 150 that makes Quiet leave? I'm never taking this butterfly out of my emblem cause i don't wanna lose my cool sniper waifu
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Sep 5, 2015 18:12
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Hal is an anime nerd because his dad was literally Gendo from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Can't really blame him for ending up the way he is when his dad is a total psycho and his mother was crazy enough to think he was also The Boss' son. They really lucked out with how easy it is to believe the depths that the Emmerich family would sink to. They've still never been able to show exactly how far gone Paramedic could be by the time she starts bringing people back from the dead or overseeing super baby development.
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Sep 5, 2015 18:20
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She's kidnapped by the Russians. Before Snake bails her out, she breaks free from her captors (who tried to rape her) and crazy kung fu shenanigans and dick-stabbing ensue. She kicks a dude's dick so hard it explodes. You team up with her to take out a bunch of tanks. She eats a cannon shot to save you and passes out. There's a sandstorm, so she can't heal, so Snake has to carry her to a safe place. Snake gets bitten by his namesake and passes out. They receive a call from Pequod, who can't find them. Quiet is forced to speak in English to signal Pequod to their location, presumably triggering her parasites. She then vanishes leaving a cassette tape behind where she says how much she looks up to Snake and wishes they had a common tongue.
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Sep 5, 2015 18:27
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Viewtiful Jew posted:They really lucked out with how easy it is to believe the depths that the Emmerich family would sink to. They've still never been able to show exactly how far gone Paramedic could be by the time she starts bringing people back from the dead or overseeing super baby development. Para-Medic was always a bit of a mad scientist though and would probably quite easily believe that the sick experiments she did on Gray Fox would ultimately lead to new technologies and medicine to save lives. I don't think it's as quite as huge a stretch as everyone seems to think. The Emmerich family though. It says something when the least screwed up person in that family is the anime watching nerd who's had a girl he had a crush on via Stockholm Syndrome, his step sister who also wanted to jump his bones and a scientist who he became close to all died.
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Sep 5, 2015 18:29
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so quiet leaves because snake passes out from a snakebite? thats stupid and im not doing it edit: also what was up with Kaz's eyes? in the "Coming up in chapter 2 bit" he's shown as blind and Code Talker mentions something about it but then it never comes up again?? Funky Britches fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 18:43
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Spermando posted:She's kidnapped by the Russians. Before Snake bails her out, she breaks free from her captors (who tried to rape her) and crazy kung fu shenanigans and dick-stabbing ensue. She kicks a dude's dick so hard it explodes. You team up with her to take out a bunch of tanks. She eats a cannon shot to save you and passes out. There's a sandstorm, so she can't heal, so Snake has to carry her to a safe place. Snake gets bitten by his namesake and passes out. They receive a call from Pequod, who can't find them. Quiet is forced to speak in English to signal Pequod to their location, presumably triggering her parasites. She then vanishes leaving a cassette tape behind where she says how much she looks up to Snake and wishes they had a common tongue. so she doesnt talk to keep the parasites from activating. that actually sort makes sense.
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Sep 5, 2015 19:09
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Is there any ingame explanation for Mini-Mantis, or is he just there as an all-purpose plot key?
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Sep 5, 2015 19:13
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Discendo Vox posted:Is there any ingame explanation for Mini-Mantis, or is he just there as an all-purpose plot key? Mantis feeds of negative emotions and can act as a proxy for those who have these feelings. All the cutscenes involving him make much more sense if you keep that in mind. Also I think he finds the hospital at the beginning because he felt Snake's desire for revenge. He happened to be flying near the hospital.
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Sep 5, 2015 19:17
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Funky Britches posted:so quiet leaves because snake passes out from a snakebite? thats stupid and im not doing it It's just bright is all.
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Sep 5, 2015 19:25
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Spermando posted:She's kidnapped by the Russians. Before Snake bails her out, she breaks free from her captors (who tried to rape her) and crazy kung fu shenanigans and dick-stabbing ensue. She kicks a dude's dick so hard it explodes. You team up with her to take out a bunch of tanks. She eats a cannon shot to save you and passes out. There's a sandstorm, so she can't heal, so Snake has to carry her to a safe place. Snake gets bitten by his namesake and passes out. They receive a call from Pequod, who can't find them. Quiet is forced to speak in English to signal Pequod to their location, presumably triggering her parasites. She then vanishes leaving a cassette tape behind where she says how much she looks up to Snake and wishes they had a common tongue. I think you're leaving out that she doesn't just walk off. She walks off to kill herself before it spreads.
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Sep 5, 2015 19:30
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Stahlgeist posted:Big Boss dropping a nuke would wipe the twist of Metal Gear 1 from the record. A small military nation - presumably already under surveillance - conducting actual nuclear tests or an attack with nuclear weapons would immediately vilify Big Boss to the rest of the world. I don't see a guy who nuked a population centre or military base from his private army fortress being invited to take command of a Special Forces unit that later infiltrates a private army fortress to prevent a nuclear attack. I mean, MG1 already pretty much needs a total rewrite by Kojima's own admission in order to fit into the "canon." Information control is one of the series' overarching themes, so it's not like they couldn't have covered up Big Boss nuking some random third world village or something. The whole decoy thing still doesn't really make much sense. Obviously it was an attempt to explain how Big Boss could be the head of FOXHOUND and Outer Heaven at the same time, but...there's no way Cipher wouldn't know about both of them. They already know about Outer Heaven, they just don't know its exact location. And they would 100% know about him being the head of a CIA unit. So even if you are generous and assume they don't know there are two Big Bosses operating at once, the one they would absolutely know about is the real one, which makes the entire point of creating a decoy and going underground to begin with feel pretty goofy. TPP sweeps Zero under the rug as being a brain-damaged, bed-ridden invalid already, so once Skull Face is dead there either isn't anyone with a direct grudge against BB, or Cipher is already so self-reliant that it will always be hunting Big Boss down no matter what he does. It's basically confirmed that the latter is the case, so having him head FOXHOUND is still kind of nonsensical. But that's what happens when you create games for 25 years with no giant original blueprint, so it's not really something I fault the writing for.
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Sep 5, 2015 20:07
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Under the vegetable posted:It's just bright is all. but does that cutscene actually happen? where he goes " you'll be my eyes now" or whatever? because i never saw it.
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Sep 5, 2015 20:12
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I mean, MG1 already pretty much needs a total rewrite by Kojima's own admission in order to fit into the "canon." Information control is one of the series' overarching themes, so it's not like they couldn't have covered up Big Boss nuking some random third world village or something. Zero is the very reason that the decoy exists. He made it to protect Big Boss because he still values him as a friend despite all the bad poo poo Cipher did to MSF. I think it's important to separate Zero from Cipher as an organization because by the time he gets bedridden he's largely removed from the operation. Zero hid Big Boss from Cipher because he knew guys like Skull Face and the AI would just try to kill him.
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Sep 5, 2015 20:15
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randombattle posted:Zero is the very reason that the decoy exists. He made it to protect Big Boss because he still values him as a friend despite all the bad poo poo Cipher did to MSF. I think it's important to separate Zero from Cipher as an organization because by the time he gets bedridden he's largely removed from the operation. Zero hid Big Boss from Cipher because he knew guys like Skull Face and the AI would just try to kill him. Yeah, but I guess what I'm saying is that this should have been a bigger part of the game considering the Zero / BB split is the catalyst for basically the entire series. The LET project is a non-issue in this game despite it setting up literally everything, and going "well actually Zero was his friend all along and it was just bad luck that the AIs he created took on their own wills" feels kind of cheap. I'm just kind of torn on it. In some ways I like the idea, and it fits thematically, but at the same time it sort of deflates a the major conflict that the other games set up with a bait-and-switch.
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Sep 5, 2015 20:31
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An interesting leftover from the cut content is that ocelot hands snake a white robot hand on the tanker, but when they are riding to save Miller it is clearly red. I wonder how early they knew what to cut?
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Sep 5, 2015 20:40
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JoshVanValkenburg posted:An interesting leftover from the cut content is that ocelot hands snake a white robot hand on the tanker, but when they are riding to save Miller it is clearly red. I wonder how early they knew what to cut? That hand also has only 4 fingers, for some reason.
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Sep 5, 2015 20:59
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really bummed out about the cut content but reading this and the looking at the rest of the guys messages gives me hope (was posted in the other thread but still, i guess its confirmed true since he knew about the cut content) https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/3h7v7f/konami_the_truth/?sort=new
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Sep 5, 2015 21:02
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