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Minis games, at least the ones widely played, have this meta-game of dynamic scenarios and customizable forces with game lengths low enough to support tournament play that gives a definite appeal as a person in it for the game. I have absolutely no interest in the hobbyist stuff. I like cool looking minis, of course, but I don't care to make them. I tried, I failed, I don't feel like putting in the grind to get good. Also the reason Attack Wing failed while X-Wing succeeded is because X-wing kept its design within certain bounds, like no seperate pilots+ships, as well as faction limitations. Attack Wing.. hahahaha. Attack Wing also had a lot of other problems like cards you could only get at events. Better balanced games are going to tend to be more limited in their unit design to make playtesting more sane. 40K and Fantasy tend to shove in so much poo poo that isn't well thought out that it just doesn't work.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:56
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The one physical benefit (beyond aesthetics) that 3d miniatures give you over a flat map with chits, is the ability to use the z axis during your fights. The unfortunate thing is how few systems take advantage. I'm thinking of stuff like Mordhiem and Infinity, where you can use multistory scenery and have units shooting at one another down stairwells and stuff. You can still do that on a flat board with markets and chits, but it can be more fiddly, especially when determining things like line of sight.
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Sep 4, 2015 23:02
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The best 40k miniatures game was Dawn of War 2. They even let you custom paint your space Meet the Beermarines: 
Corbeau fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 23:03
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Rulebook Heavily posted:Just imagine a Warhammer where the plastic followed now decades-old techniques like color layering, or making individual sprues different colors. Buy a box of Ultramarines and you get blue plastic marines; get Blood Angels and you get red plastic. (Weapons on a separate sprue get a tiny metallic sheen.) Orc sprues with skin on would be green, and Eldar could be bone-white with differently colored helmets and weapons. No sea of grey, but still easy to do a full paint job on (or do a quick shade and a little detailing for the terminally lazy) if you want to. I suggested almost exactly this months ago in one of the 40K Facebook groups and so many people shot me down because the painting, converting, etc is part of the hobby to them. But yeah as many people here have said just look at X-Wing and how easy it is to get into a pre-painted game (with good rules).
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Sep 4, 2015 23:10
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Even hero quest had 4 different colors of miniatures.
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Sep 4, 2015 23:17
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http://usshop.thearmypainter.com/products.php?ProductGroupId=15 http://www.krylon.com/products/fusion-for-plastic/ Welcome to the Army Painter/Krylon hobby. It worked for Axis & Allies, Space Hulk, HeroQuest, ImpAss, Zombies!!!, and virtually any other game that uses miniatures. At the very least you're not looking at bare plastic or metal and it took all of 5 minutes (and that includes shaking the can).
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Sep 4, 2015 23:38
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guys I'm drunk and gay
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Sep 4, 2015 23:46
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same m'i yag
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Sep 4, 2015 23:47
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I'm not actually gay but I wouldn't say no to cocks in myopathy
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Sep 4, 2015 23:51
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mouth
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Sep 4, 2015 23:51
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Theres a guy at my FLGS who got kicked out of a GW for having an unpainted army. So he went home and primed them grey, with light grey highlights, and a black wash purely out of spite. They looked exactly the same but met any and all 3 color minimum requirements
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Sep 4, 2015 23:55
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haha laughing my rear end off
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Sep 5, 2015 00:03
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this is now a drunk mini thread, post your most drunk warhams/minis      
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Sep 5, 2015 00:25
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I'm not good at painting and never have been; a combination of joint problems in my hands making it physically painful to paint minis for too long at a time coupled with being relatively impatient and not being particularly skilled at painting in the first place means that my dudes traditionally, at very best, get a basecoat treatment, some very basic detailing like eyes etc, and maybe a wash if I'm feeling super  that day. This means that I tend to end up fielding a lot of primer-only models when I put stuff on the table because I like trying new things consistently and I generally dislike modeling and painting and have to force myself into doing it.Despite this, I still really like playing miniatures games. Pushing little fantasy or sci fi dudes around a table and rolling dice is a fun social activity if you're playing with people that aren't lovely and has a totally different feel from playing board games or chess or video games. You get a feeling of "my army" even if your dudes are painted badly or not painted at all that isn't really replicated by tokens or chits; I know this from experience because in my broke teenage years my friends and I used to proxy poo poo for WHFB and 40k all the time. I have a couple of friends who are amazing at the whole modeling and painting aspect of miniatures; they cut, pin, and repose everything so it looks unique and have fantastic paintjobs on stuff. They don't give a crap about playing against even bare metal and plastic armies because when they're playing the game they're playing for the game, not for the modeling hobby aspect. I have nothing but respect for the kinds of people who can make their armies into a personalized work of art, but to me that's a separate activity from playing the game instead of an intrinsic part of what makes it worth the investment.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:27
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Super Waffle posted:Theres a guy at my FLGS who got kicked out of a GW for having an unpainted army. So he went home and primed them grey, with light grey highlights, and a black wash purely out of spite. They looked exactly the same but met any and all 3 color minimum requirements I mean, I get that he was trolling but I'm betting many of the people who demand painted armies would be placated with a solid basecoat -> metal or flesh where appropriate -> wash job, if only because that can look pretty good from tabletop height. Depending on the game/army you're playing, you can make the metal the basecoat and save a step  (GK or Necrons anyone?)That said, I think X-Wing is the proof of concept for the fact that prepaints can dramatically increase the visual appeal of a game and not step on the toes of anyone who still wants to customize Their Dudes. I hope we see more of that sort of thing going forward.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:27
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The benchmark for pricing of Age of Sigmar boxed set models is about 2.50$ per model. Imagine how I felt when I saw them below that price on ebay for the first time, in large quantities.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:39
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I don't enjoy painting. Like, I don't enjoy it at all. But I like hanging out with dudes and pushing cool-looking miniatures around (and most of them still look pretty cool even unpainted) and the customization that comes with building an army and setting up terrain and playing scenarios. And I generally like the aesthetics and fluff of the games I play and even unpainted miniatures are better than chits or what have you for that. With that said I DO paint my poo poo, but it takes me forever (and ever and ever). "Painting my poo poo" is also a relatively recent occurrence (IE, for the past six months, when I've been playing miniatures games for 15 years). I like the idea of prepainted models and colored plastics a lot. It's funny though cuz when you suggest that kind of thing on sites like Dakkadakka, people fly into fits of apoplexy over the thought because apparently you can't just paint over prepainted miniatures or colored plastics  .
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Sep 5, 2015 00:48
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midnight Maccies m8
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Sep 5, 2015 00:54
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You know what game tempted me with plastic fantasy army mans? BattleLore 2nd Edition. I'd buy that before I'd buy anything to do with Warhammer.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:04
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wheres dawn of war 3
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Sep 5, 2015 01:12
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frajaq posted:wheres dawn of war 3 Over with Space Marine 2.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:13
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People who poo poo on you for how you choose to field your mans suck. I get you guys' points somewhat. How does everyone feel about the new stormcast eternals line of miniatures? Surely these glorious warriors deserve at least a solid basecoat?
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Sep 5, 2015 01:14
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dawn of war dark crusade is what got me hooked into the Warhammer 40k universe in the first place wheres the game SEGA where is it
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Sep 5, 2015 01:15
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I've been seeing whole Khorne half-boxes in the $40 - $50 range, which is unfortunate because there's not much you can use these guys on except AoS. Maybe 40k players can use them in a Khorne Daemonkin army?
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Sep 5, 2015 01:23
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Wouldn't the Khorne stuff be more useful? Couldn't you stick some bolters or chain-axes on them and a space marine hat, end up with something you could put in a CSM or related army? I guess simgarines allows you to make Space Marines from the loyalist chapter the "Ate all the Pies" space marines.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:29
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vintagepurple posted:People who poo poo on you for how you choose to field your mans suck. I get you guys' points somewhat. This is all you need: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/retributor-armour-spray And I'm someone who paints his warbarbies and would prefer to play against someone using painted minis, but I'm also ok with us just using based counters - for me, the game and the social is the main thing even though I enjoy the painting and modelling. I don't think it's fair to accuse someone for whom they derive equal enjoyment from those aspects as the others as being unreasonable jerks - they merely enjoy the hobby in a different way. And that's awesome. enrious fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 01:45
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vintagepurple posted:People who poo poo on you for how you choose to field your mans suck. I get you guys' points somewhat. Thankfully, for the low cost of a little over $2 an ounce, you can buy glorious Citadel Brand Retributor Armour Spray to both prime and basecoat your jewel-like Stormcast Eternals in one stroke.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:47
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frajaq posted:wheres dawn of war 3 It'll be announced next year afterr 40k's been sigmar'd.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:48
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ro5s posted:It'll be announced next year afterr 40k's been sigmar'd. A fair trade
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Sep 5, 2015 01:56
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I don't think anyone is saying that two painted armies squaring off on a well modeled battlefield isn't awesome in its own right. It just takes a ton of time and effort to get to that point and not everyone is going to be able or interested in doing it. Hell, one of the big appeals of the FLGS is that the terrain and tables are already taken care of. I haven't used cups or books as hills and towers since I was 12. But again, and I keep going back to this, you're most likely to play the game that other people around you are playing. We're quite lucky now in that the board game hobby has exploded over the last few years. If you really want to play a wargame and you don't want to touch the hobby side, that's legitimately a choice and so I can see why now, today, people who really enjoy the hobby side of things get confused by people wanting to get in on miniature games but whine about how frustrating modeling can be. But a decade ago, most people still thought of only Risk and maybe Diplomacy as the alternatives to Warhammer. So if you wanted to get the feel of commanding little dudes, you didn't have a whole lot of options. So being told that even after going through the trouble of buying these expensive figures and building them that you couldn't field them or that they'd let you get away with it this time was a kick in the teeth. Things are different now. X-Wing shows how awesome prepainted minis can be. And the board game community is large enough that you don't have to deal with miniatures but you can get a similar experience. But it's still loving ridiculous when you are in the process of painting a force and are told that only the minis with tabletop standard paint jobs can play today, especially when a primed or based model will look better than a loving train wreck of a paint job.
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Sep 5, 2015 02:26
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Are there games that include chits when you buy the miniatures? That seems like a no-brainer, since you can start playing immediately with the chits. I can even see people justifying buying the miniature to get the chit: "I have so much unpainted lead already" becomes "I have so much unpainted lead, but I can use the chits for now and then paint the mini when I get to it".
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Sep 5, 2015 04:23
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Honestly with a little elbow grease a happy alternative could be reached. Get Some cardboard, color prints of someone else's painted models, stick em on the right base size with a paperclip. If care was taken I bet it would look cohesive and good.
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Sep 5, 2015 04:31
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Sanglorian posted:Are there games that include chits when you buy the miniatures? That seems like a no-brainer, since you can start playing immediately with the chits. I can even see people justifying buying the miniature to get the chit: "I have so much unpainted lead already" becomes "I have so much unpainted lead, but I can use the chits for now and then paint the mini when I get to it". I don't think any game does this, but it seems like a fine idea. For some games it wouldn't matter because the game is intended to be played as is and painting is entirely optional (like the Battletech intro box or Mars Attacks) and for other games that don't use true line of sight you could just use a base with some kind of marking on it to indicate which model it was. But I can't imagine that a sheet of card punchouts, even ones you could fold over to make a semi-decent looking proxy, would be that high of an additional cost. Hell, GW used to do similar things in White Dwarf. There was an Ork tavern brawl game, a Dark Eldar gladiator pit game, and even an early mock-up of BFG all printed with card pieces that you could later substitute with real minis.
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Sep 5, 2015 04:34
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Well, if the minis are one-piece sculpts then there isn't that much more work in putting them on a base than there is in punching out a chit, so if you're already in on the cost of putting the minis in the box in the first place then there's not that much point in having chits. If the minis are in a shitload of pieces then the backup chits become a significantly better idea.
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Sep 5, 2015 04:47
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Admiral Joeslop and I just recently got into X-Wang and whoo-boy did that open up another giant hole in my wallet. Thanks GW for pushing me to see that there are other games out there. Also now seeing that people repaint their x-wing miniatures, which look amazing to begin with, I must start down that path myself. Red themed ties are a thing that must happen.
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Sep 5, 2015 04:54
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Xwangs look like some third world nation child labor painted them at the rate of 60 per hour.
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Sep 5, 2015 05:32
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LingcodKilla posted:Xwangs look like some third world nation child labor painted them at the rate of 60 per hour. Funnily enough... (While FFG does say they have labor/human rights standards for their Chinese factories which are slowing their production, and I applaud that, if you're outsourcing production to China at all, it's because you want to save money over production in the US or Europe, and some of that savings is bound to be in labor costs.)
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Sep 5, 2015 05:37
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Ultiville posted:Funnily enough... Yeah I'll pass on playing a game that looks pretty because of child labor. It's a loving game not a necessity. Excuse me while I walk off in my Nikes.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:05
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You know what else is a benefit to prepaints? Not having to treat your gaming pieces like Faberge eggs. I throw my Wangs in some Plano and Stanley tool cases and don't give a gently caress if the car hits a bump or I clip a corner with the case, if one falls onto the table I'm not holding my breath over what might have just happened to my paint job, if someone wants to see my Falcon or Firespray I can just be like "yeah, that's cool" instead of worrying that they're going to break them with their ham hands, etc. If I put that much care and effort into making something like that look nice I'd be too drat paranoid that it was all going to get messed up to keep dragging it back and forth from the game store to get a round in.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:20
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Kai Tave posted:You know what else is a benefit to prepaints? Not having to treat your gaming pieces like Faberge eggs. Exactly. The lengths I see people go to to get pieces to the game is absurd. I shouldn't have to have a magnetized box lined with foam to play a drat game.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:34
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