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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Nope, the only ones you can go into are one each in the medbay and R&D. Apparently there were a lot more interior areas planned, but they didn't have time / money to implement them. haha man, i've loved this whole game and it's probably longer than when i played witcher 3, but it sounds like hideo wanted so much more from it that 'konami employee' link vikar posted a few pages back was interesting, especially given it was made 3 weeks ago. guess any fan could've come up with it given how public the konami/kojima fallout has been though Vikar Jerome posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/3h7v7f/konami_the_truth/?sort=new
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Sep 6, 2015 03:16
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Alain Post posted:Mother Base in general is the place that was most obviously cut for time. I still like it but it's barely more functional than panning around the platforms in Peace Walker. I was hoping for more missions on MB. That probably would've been the best way to use the labyrinthine spaces, but there's one mission on MB.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:17
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Hardflip posted:haha man, i've loved this whole game and it's probably longer than when i played witcher 3, but it sounds like hideo wanted so much more from it he mentioned on Twitter that he hasn't played it since release since he'd just see something and wish he had fixed it or done it differently  that said, i don't think he's got that much to be ashamed of. like, MGS4 might have gone through insane pains to tie up the plot, but it was also a game that had like, a third of a game's worth of actual sneaking areas, a faction/"psyche" system that was barely functional, and stuff like that trailing mission in chapter 3 where you get the impression that it was supposed to be much more involved at some point. playing that felt much more "unfinished" than what i've played of MGSV.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:20
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Alain Post posted:Mother Base in general is the place that was most obviously cut for time. I still like it but it's barely more functional than panning around the platforms in Peace Walker. Yeah, they were going to let you customize individual troops' uniforms and weapons and everything. Also garages with all of your vehicles, etc. It's very obvious that they didn't get to do a lot of things they wanted to, which I honestly can't blame Konami for. I hate that they interfered with Kojima's ultimate vision and all, but tbh if I was their CEO I probably would have made the same call. It's really amazing what this game did with an $80 million budget. Everyone makes it sound like that is some giant, bloated budget, but it's like a third of the development cost of GTAV and it's so much better and more immersive. I can't even imagine what this game would have been with triple the money invested into it. I hope that rumor about some other developer buying out the engine / IP is true, though I also want to see Kojima make something totally new. If nothing else, a few of the missions in TPP prove that he could make a hell of a horror game, and I hope he does something like that even if it isn't Silent Hills.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:21
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They totally said base customization at one point because it was going to be the main advantage to defending FOBs since you'd know the layout and shortcuts. But all the FOBs are the same so it's all a bit moot.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:34
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randombattle posted:They totally said base customization at one point because it was going to be the main advantage to defending FOBs since you'd know the layout and shortcuts. But all the FOBs are the same so it's all a bit moot. drat.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:37
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You can configure guard equipment and security points and stuff so there is still some FOB customization. Just not layouts.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:42
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Yeah, you can basically adjust the number of guards, their patrol routes (to an extent), how many cameras / IR sensors / mines to place, but all of the platform designs are the same (though R&D is different from Command, etc.). Which is probably for the best, balance-wise. FOB stuff already massively favors the defender, it would be completely unfair if you could design your own FOB specifically to gently caress over invaders on top of it.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:48
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Partial Octopus posted:Really disappointed that they never really talk about psycho mantis at all. I was really interested in learning more about him. There is a tape about him where they just say that he uses the POWER OF HATE to do his tricks. It is very, very stupid. I was half expecting this game to have some plot about Sniper Wolf and maybe even Solidus, given when and where the game takes place, although the locales aren't exactly spot on they are close enough. By the way, why exactly does Eli loathe Big Boss so much? They've never met before and as far as I can tell Big Boss had no part in or knowledge of LET. Did they make him hate Big Boss just because he says he hates Big Boss in MGS1?
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Sep 6, 2015 08:39
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Liquid's reason for hating BB seems to be the same as it was stated in MGS1. Dude just has a giant complex about being a clone, and hates the original.
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Sep 6, 2015 08:44
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Gortarius posted:There is a tape about him where they just say that he uses the POWER OF HATE to do his tricks. It is very, very stupid. Big Boss knows about LET, it's the reason he splits with Zero. As for Eli, all he knows is that BB is his "father" - at that point he might not even realize he is a clone, or at least he probably doesn't understand the full implications. As far as he knows, his dad just dipped out to go run a mercenary empire and doesn't give a single poo poo about him, which is pretty close to the truth. BB doesn't consider the clones to be his sons and feels no obligations toward them; the kindest thing he does for Eli is not murder him when he has the chance, and that's because he sees potential in him as a soldier, not out of any paternal feeling. I think it's pretty fair to say that Eli being pissed at him makes sense. And remember, he is just a kid, even if he is a clone of the most badass man who ever lived. Kids are emotional and reactionary and usually aren't going to respond to complicated situations like that with grace and understanding. edit: The cut Chapter 51 stuff makes it a lot more clear that he does know he is a clone, and that he resents BB for essentially being his "leftovers" - he already believes he got all the inferior genes. He basically sees killing Big Boss as a way to reclaim his own fate. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 08:52
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Mr. Fortitude posted:It's not a bad game. I wouldn't even say it's a mediocre one. But I don't think it deserves the 9/10 or 10/10 it's been getting. To me it's a solid 8 at most, perhaps even a bit lower just because of how the story irritates me. Which has nothing to do with the concept of the twist itself (I like the idea of it), but the really shoddy execution of it. I just wanted to tell you that you, Mr. Fortitude, have a good opinion, on the internet. I started thinking this around my tenth retry of the skulls fight where I died after I panned the camera to check behind me only to have a skull materialize two feet away and one shot me. I eventually figured out a strategy, but drat, gating the end of the story behind those missions was lovely. When I beat sahaelanthropus for the first time I thought that it would have been an amazing game for that alone. The harder set of missions were largely just obstacles to unlocking the story for me, although I ended up getting Quiet's bond up to 100 because I thought it affected the ending (it doesn't, it just affects whether or not you can end her story) and she's really loving awesome for those mission. She's gone now and I have a handful of missions left. I may just play through the game again if there's really no way to get her back. She's that useful, and her competence was ultimately what turned me around on this joke of a character who will stick her butt in your face like a cat in heat on command. If you get to Mission 40 you can even give her combat appropriate clothes. Ishmael being the real Big Boss is so heavily telegraphed I figured Kojima would fake people out but nope, that's just the way it is. The first half is so good, 10/10 game of the year. The second half is an 8.5. really good, but with flaws. This is the IGN rating system. Full Battle Rattle fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 09:24
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Overall, fairly disappointing. Shooting and sneaking feel good, but the AI is absolutely retarded, the open world doesn't really do much, there's too much filler and padding, and Mother Base grinds the game to a halt in Chapter 2. It's like they took something great and tried as hard as they could to pile a bunch of unfun or pointless things on top of it.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:16
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Big Boss knows about LET, it's the reason he splits with Zero. His reasons makes sense to me. I mean if you were raised in a lab who gets told all about how you are a clone of a super awesome legendary guy who's the best but you were made to be full of lovely genes just to see what would happen and then subsequently dumped out on the street when they just decide you suck one day. I'd harbor a grudge too.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:19
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Vikar Jerome posted:decided to start loving with people in the main thread who are slowing releazing the twist. The Twist, which happens and is pretty clearly alluded to in the first ten minutes of the game.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:24
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Under the vegetable posted:The Twist, which happens and is pretty clearly alluded to in the first ten minutes of the game. The twist was clearly alluded to back when kojima made mody dick studios and pretended to be someone else. Every trailer has been hammering you over the head with it. Then people data mind ground zeroes or whatever they do then realized something was up with thay medic. Its been a great few years. That said im wondering if i might be reading into this but with the demon horn stuff and the player avatar and what kojima did with mgs2, i suspect bb "going evil" is meant be up to you the player, you are the legendary hero who goes nuts and slaughters enitre counties with your walkman blasting out tracks. Or you didnt.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:31
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Under the vegetable posted:The Twist, which happens and is pretty clearly alluded to in the first ten minutes of the game. yeah, it's really obvious and it's more about finding out the specifics of what really happened than "oh man Venom isn't really Big Boss!!!!"
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Sep 6, 2015 10:33
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Vikar Jerome posted:The twist was clearly alluded to back when kojima made mody dick studios and pretended to be someone else. Every trailer has been hammering you over the head with it. Sad that they cut back on the FOB concept so much since that was the most incredible sounding part. On the other hand there is so much dicking around to be done that I don't think I will miss it too badly.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:37
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I think it's a great twist because you kind of expect it, find out you aren't the same big boss, but then it's revealed that for all intents and desires both snakes are the same. It teases that oh snake really was a good guy! But then nope snake is as bad as the guys he's fighting and using a scapegoat to fight his battles for him. It's all a lot simpler story than the past games but that's ok I think.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:39
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They torture the poo poo out of Quiet for basically no reason. That's pretty dark. They also torture the poo poo out of Huey, for a pretty good reason. The mission where you have to off your own dudes is hella hosed up, especially the ones that salute you as you do it, with the theme from peace walker playing in a nearby radio. I'm sad they cut all that stuff with Eli. His little speech at the end about how he's genetic garbage really turns you around on his whole character. This is the first numbered MGS to not end with a melee fight with the main villain.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:44
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I wanted to side with Huey at the start because I figured that he wasn't responsible for the attack. By the end of the game I was pissed off that he was getting exiled instead of killed. What an rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:45
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Alain Post posted:I wanted to side with Huey at the start because I figured that he wasn't responsible for the attack. By the end of the game I was pissed off that he was getting exiled instead of killed. What an rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:48
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It's kinda weird how after getting tortured both Quiet and Huey are just fine with it, as if it never happened.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:50
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Does anyone have the specific requirements for unlocking Mission 46 by the way? Seems like a lot of people got it, but I'd kind of like to know exactly how.
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Sep 6, 2015 10:51
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Full Battle Rattle posted:The first half is so good, 10/10 game of the year. The second half is an 8.5. really good, but with flaws. This is the IGN rating system. The thing about the game is that if they had been content to tell a self-contained story with a little Big Boss development, they would've had a masterpiece. The story of Skullface vs Venom/Boss would've been fine- another Peace Walker-style interlude. Chapter 1 is still brilliant, but I think instead of having Chapter 2, they really should have given a little more padding to the Skullface story. I felt like by mission 30 I had a few more to go, but no, not really. The denouement of Chapter 1 felt rushed. A few more of those PF missions would've helped a lot. Unfortunately, Kojima decided to settle all the questions and make the definitive bridge to MG1, which is where most of the game's missteps happen. Chapter 2 has so little actually happening that you just feel like you got hit by a folding chair. Also, I feel like the modifiers should've been a thing you could choose in any mission- subsistence mode is fun as hell but they only use it in two missions, instead you get extreme which makes skulls super tedious and perfect stealth which is also tedious. The irony of the game is that the typical PF-style missions felt way more open and interesting than the more plotty missions. Kojima went out of his way to accomodate almost anything you want to do with some clever bits, like how if you blow up the comms equipment when you get Kaz, you don't have to do it again, or how you can blow up the guy's escape chopper in mission 19(iirc) and he'll just sit there waiting for it. I also like how the guards get better and less stupid as the game goes on. Early on, for example, guards do not really react to seeing their friends asleep- once you get to Chapter 2 they start calling in alerts when they see it. They also learn to shoot down Fulton balloons if they can, though you get an upgrade that kinda dumbs down fultons by letting you use them anywhere.
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Sep 6, 2015 12:34
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Wait, can you only use subsistence on two missions? I was really looking forward to that mode too. I thought it unlocked for every mission once you beat it or something.
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Sep 6, 2015 13:16
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Panzeh posted:or how you can blow up the guy's escape chopper in mission 19(iirc) and he'll just sit there waiting for it. That might just be his script getting stuck. I broke the mission where you tail the interpreter between various prisoners by knocking out his group and fultoning his escorts - he got in the drivers seat of the jeep then sat there forever waiting for his friends to get in 
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Sep 6, 2015 13:25
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So after thinking about it a little more, is there any message in the whole Venom Snake twist? I get that you're the one carrying on the legacy of the Boss, but is there anything more to it than that? Also, the tape that he's listening to at the end, Operation Intrude, does that mean Venom was the one guiding Solid over codec in MG1, not Big Boss? I've seen a few people say it was Venom, and a few say it was Big Boss.
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Sep 6, 2015 13:51
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Hardflip posted:So after thinking about it a little more, is there any message in the whole Venom Snake twist? I get that you're the one carrying on the legacy of the Boss, but is there anything more to it than that? I think Venom was supposed to be the one killed in MG1? Then Real Boss dies in MG2. I think some guidebook said the Big Boss on the radio in MG1 is supposed to be an AI, but that honestly sounds so stupid I don't even want to believe it.
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Sep 6, 2015 13:53
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Hardflip posted:So after thinking about it a little more, is there any message in the whole Venom Snake twist? I get that you're the one carrying on the legacy of the Boss, but is there anything more to it than that? I don't really think so. It kind of goes against the message of MGS 2, which bugs me. Raiden rejected the players control, allowing himself to become a new man and decide what to do and learn from his experiences (remember that MGS 4 and Rising were never supposed to exist). In V, Venom and Big Boss accept the player's control and want you to contribute to the legend of Big Boss some more. Also no idea. We don't know if Big Boss sent Solid Snake to kill Venom because Venom became too uncontrollable or if he wanted to have Venom kill Solid Snake because he really hated LET or something. If it's the former then I'd imagine it would be Venom hijacking the radio frequency of Big Boss towards the end, trying to kill you. But stuff like this is why MG 1 and 2 really need a remake, they're about as canon as Portable Ops is at this point now.
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Sep 6, 2015 13:56
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I don't really think so. It kind of goes against the message of MGS 2, which bugs me. Raiden rejected the players control, allowing himself to become a new man and decide what to do and learn from his experiences (remember that MGS 4 and Rising were never supposed to exist). In V, Venom and Big Boss accept the player's control and want you to contribute to the legend of Big Boss some more. It makes sense to go against the message given it's a prequel and what we're doing is connecting two periods together, and Big Boss' legend was ridiculously powerful. Having two to double your efforts helps I guess. Just doesn't seem all that poignant. Mr. Fortitude posted:Also no idea. We don't know if Big Boss sent Solid Snake to kill Venom because Venom became too uncontrollable or if he wanted to have Venom kill Solid Snake because he really hated LET or something. If it's the former then I'd imagine it would be Venom hijacking the radio frequency of Big Boss towards the end, trying to kill you. But stuff like this is why MG 1 and 2 really need a remake, they're about as canon as Portable Ops is at this point now. I think MG1 mentioned Big Boss expected you to get captured like Gray Fox did, but you overcame every hurdle, so Venom's death was never intended. But yeah I think the plots in those games would have to change slightly so Big Boss isn't spouting lines about never ending wars, unless it's just Venom finally getting brain damage or going psycho due to all the mind fuckery.
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Sep 6, 2015 14:05
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I don't really think so. It kind of goes against the message of MGS 2, which bugs me. Raiden rejected the players control, allowing himself to become a new man and decide what to do and learn from his experiences (remember that MGS 4 and Rising were never supposed to exist). In V, Venom and Big Boss accept the player's control and want you to contribute to the legend of Big Boss some more. I'm kind of fine with Kojima contradicting a theme from a previous game, because it wasn't something present throughout the entire series. They're both just some philosophical themes he put in to have some meta discussion, and they're both about as relevant as the other I suppose. Raiden is not Solid Snake and he is also not the player, Venom is basically BB and is a representation of the player. They're both things to discuss about the medium of videogames and I don't blame Kojima for pursuing another side of discussion rather than reiterating a theme he's already presented.
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Sep 6, 2015 14:24
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I think giving it a 10/10 is especially weird considering the MGS series already HAS two actual 10/10 games, 1 and Snake Eater. I feel like TPP had the potential for 10/10, but due to the cuts and tight budget, couldn't reach it.
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Sep 6, 2015 14:35
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I'm kind of fine with Kojima contradicting a theme from a previous game, because it wasn't something present throughout the entire series. They're both just some philosophical themes he put in to have some meta discussion, and they're both about as relevant as the other I suppose. Raiden is not Solid Snake and he is also not the player, Venom is basically BB and is a representation of the player. They're both things to discuss about the medium of videogames and I don't blame Kojima for pursuing another side of discussion rather than reiterating a theme he's already presented. I think the Venom Snake twist is actually one of the better ones because it makes Outer Heaven make way more sense given Big Boss being a mostly swell guy from 3 onward. I would give this game a 10/10 for having by far the best gameplay in the series and chapter 1's story is pretty good. I feel like every attempt to bridge to MG1-MGS is where the game goes wrong, though, with Mantis, etc.
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Sep 6, 2015 14:46
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So was Camp Omega revisited cut? I mean unless its part of the MGO update, people would have probably datamined something related to it by now.
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Sep 6, 2015 14:48
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lovely Wizard posted:So was Camp Omega revisited cut? I mean unless its part of the MGO update, people would have probably datamined something related to it by now. Unless it gets patched in, looks like it. Konami didn't want to spend any more money on the game and released it as is. I'd hope for a patch or DLC but, Konami really do seem like they only care about pachinko machines and couldn't care less for video games anymore.
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Sep 6, 2015 14:56
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Unless it gets patched in, looks like it. Konami didn't want to spend any more money on the game and released it as is. I'd hope for a patch or DLC but, Konami really do seem like they only care about pachinko machines and couldn't care less for video games anymore. If they don't manage to weasel legalized gambling in Japan, they're on a pretty hilarious course to being only a fitness club and IP holdings sinkpit.
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Sep 6, 2015 14:59
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So I finished the story last night and I have been mulling over it for all of today. I still need to get all my thoughts in order but it really ended up being disappointing. You can't fault the gameplay, although permanently losing Quiet and the limited number of Subsistence missions are both really fuckimg lame. The story is basically a mess, though. I can dig the twist, kinda. I dislike it because it's aping MGS2's infinitely more interesting discussion of the player/character relationship but it could still have worked if they did more with it. As it is, the game dumps it on you really clumsily ("SURPRISE, now play through the railroaded prologue again so you can get frustrated and also see the entirety of the real Big Boss' role in the story) and it.... doesn't matter. It doesn't add anything to the game except to cheapen the entire experience. This game was touted as the fall of Big Boss as he becomes the tyrannical nuclear warlord from MG1 and MG2 but it's not. Because the focus is on Venom, Big Boss' transformation either happened off screen or has yet to happen. The game ends basically in the same place as Peace Walker, with Big Boss creating Outer Heaven (but for totally real this time, guys) again. With this in mind, I'll echo others and ask if this story even needed to be told. Not even Venom is monstrous. He doesn't even do anything evil in this game (relatively speaking, he kills and abducts people and is a warmongerer by virtue of his profession). The only monsters in this story are Skull Face and loving Huey of all people. Even Miller seems more overtly malevolent than Venom. I've seen people pointing out that Big Boss manipulating Venom like he did is proof of his villainy but I'm not sure if the game supports that interpretation since Venom is cool with being turned into Big Boss (side note: I made my avatar a white guy but loving lol if you made your guy one of the big burly black dudes with tattoos on their faces and got to see the characters perform the reverseof the race-reassignment surgery from Tropic Thunder) and they don't really explore the interesting conflict that would arise from having your identity taken from you beyond the implications of the mirror smash. The weird thing is that Venom is basically the same as Skull Face in that his life and face were stripped away so you'd think the conclusion almost writes itself. Surely, the thematic endpoint of the game about revenge is Venom trying to take revenge on Big Boss, becoming the Skull Face to Big Boss' Zero. That would've been a cool loving ending. But any ending would be better because we didn't even get one. Quiet's story ends and the second credits play and then the Truth happens and that's it. That should've marked the beginning of Chapter 3, which should've dealt with Eli and also shown more of the real Big Boss. You could've had a nice interplay between Eli and Venom, as they were both molded into Big Boss against their will. gently caress it, have them team up to kill Big Boss and you get to play as Big Boss to take them down. In short, I don't think the story lived up to the hype of being the last Metal Gear game, nor do I think it adequetely closed the loop. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that the conflict between Big Boss and Zero/the Patriots, which is central to the modern story, is completely absent and they're completely right. We got some really weak explanations toward explaining things like Miller being in Foxhound and hating Big Boss but it seemed like the story almost conciously avoided addressing what seem to be some of the big questions in the series in favour of an independent story about The trailers (all of which are amazing) are basically better than the actual story in the game. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 15:01
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In It For The Tank posted:But any ending would be better because we didn't even get one. Quiet's story ends and the second credits play and then the Truth happens and that's it. That should've marked the beginning of Chapter 3, which should've dealt with Eli and also shown more of the real Big Boss. You could've had a nice interplay between Eli and Venom, as they were both molded into Big Boss against their will. gently caress it, have them team up to kill Big Boss and you get to play as Big Boss to take them down. You should watch the cut 'mission 51' content that was put in the Collectors Edition.
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Sep 6, 2015 15:24
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In It For The Tank posted:So I finished the story last night and I have been mulling over it for all of today. I still need to get all my thoughts in order but it really ended up being disappointing. You can't fault the gameplay, although permanently losing Quiet and the limited number of Subsistence missions are both really fuckimg lame. The story is basically a mess, though. I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying this but, I think this game straight up didn't need to be made. The gameplay is great for the first 20 hours, before you begin to realize how monotonous the missions are and how everything just repeats, but despite that there's a lot to fun to be had so I suppose the game justifies its existence just from that. But there is nothing in this story that really needed to be told which would be fine if it were just a simple revenge story where Big Boss falls to the dark side, but like you said that really doesn't happen. Not even Venom falls to the dark side. Like, as much poo poo as MGS 4 gets it at least ties story threads together albeit in a way many people didn't like. Peace Walker also gave you more insight into the relationship between The Boss and Big Boss and shows the beginning of the formation of Outer Heaven, which again didn't need to be told but at least contributed to the series story. All MGS V does is muddy the story of the other games and make things more confusing than they needed to be, while having nothing much of importance happen during its own game.
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Sep 6, 2015 15:25
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