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Dapper_Swindler posted:all of that stuff is in peace walker too. Yeah, I think the audioplay stuff is basically just fleshed-out codec calls from PW, which obviously wouldn't have worked in GZ since it would have been Hayter's voice. But basically Outer Heaven is a combination of Miller's ideas and Big Boss' legendary reputation. Turns out one of those is more replaceable than the other, and Miller is understandably not happy about it.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:42
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Miller is pissed because Big Boss basically threw him and his dream under the bus. All along Miller has been working with BB to create his soldier's nation without borders, and at the end Big Boss basically says "gently caress you, Venom is my second-in-command now and he's going to run Outer Heaven instead of you while I go do my own thing." The creation of a second Big Boss basically means Miller has become redundant, which is why he is a "Visionary Robbed of His Future." I'm so conflicted about this dumb story. I wish it just would have stopped after the sahalanthropus fight. On the plus side, if Konami has some other teams take over MG we might finally get our remakes, so yay I guess. If they're hoping on planning on turning this into an assassin's creed/call of duty type thing (and it looks like they are, it very much fits the mold of assassin's creed) with F2P mechanics we might actually be getting another installment sooner than we think, just without Kojima at the helm. Then again, the fans may revolt, and the team that knows the Fox engine best is seemingly being badgered into quitting. EDIT: I feel like every post where I complain about the story should be followed with a disclaimer that the gameplay is loving rad and it owns. I restarted and I'm going to get DD all growed up pup and then I'm gonna do side ops FOREVER. DOUBLE EDIT: Good...good dog...
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Sep 6, 2015 20:45
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Miller is pissed because Big Boss basically threw him and his dream under the bus. All along Miller has been working with BB to create his soldier's nation without borders, and at the end Big Boss basically says "gently caress you, Venom is my second-in-command now and he's going to run Outer Heaven instead of you while I go do my own thing." The creation of a second Big Boss basically means Miller has become redundant, which is why he is a "Visionary Robbed of His Future." It also seems like Big Boss knew a lot about what was going on with Skull Face and wanted to use it the conflict as a chance to build up outer heaven instead of helping out. I'd imagine Miller feels Big Boss is pretty responsible for all those people being dead on mother base since he could have taken out Skull Face while Venom was still in a coma. Instead though he just uses everyone and everything to his advantage not caring about his soldiers so long as he can achieve his goals. Had 51 made it into the game even as a cutscene I feel no one would complain about it. But even still it's ultimately not the most important part of the story because we know where that all ends up. Liquid doesn't destroy the world in a metal gear and Mantis joins him in Foxhound. It's a smaller story about Big Boss and his motives which works because there's nothing left to tell for the other characters. randombattle fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 20:48
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I'm a few pages late, but I don't think they had ever planned for bases to be completely customizable. I think a lot of people had unfounded expectations of it and posted about how they were totally going to make a single long hallway for their FOB.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:50
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Broseph Brostar posted:I'm a few pages late, but I don't think they had ever planned for bases to be completely customizable. I think a lot of people had unfounded expectations of it and posted about how they were totally going to make a single long hallway for their FOB. Yeah, afaik they didn't promise anything for FOBs that isn't in the game. Motherbase had some customization options that definitely got cut, but FOBs are as intended.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:09
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I don't really mind the story content so much. It's okay, the tapes make it better than just the cutscenes do. I do mind how it's all so disconnected and generally presented without context. There's no real reasoning for why Venom learns the truth, you're just given mission 46. The Eli cliffhanger is obviously a huge stain on the story. It's a good thing that game is just that drat good to make up for all of the flaws in the story presentation. I guess making a traditional MGS style story in the confines of an open world is just expecting too much though.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:15
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So I didn't really understand a word that Skull Face was saying during the jeep scene, which I guess tried to emulate the MGS3 ladder scene with the long transition and theme song. But from what I gather he wanted to kill all English speakers with a magic spell he found in Africa, and then sell nukes with off-switches that he had control over, and this would then somehow unite the world because everyone would have a nuclear deterrent. Skull Face also hated Zero for some reason even though he worked for him as the cleanup crew and their relationship didn't seem to go any deeper than that, so all the team switching Skull Face had to do was in no part Zeros fault. So I guess he just wanted the XOF unit for himself. Skull Face also wears that really goofy looking mask for whatever reason. How far off am I?
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Sep 6, 2015 21:18
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Gortarius posted:So I didn't really understand a word that Skull Face was saying during the jeep scene, which I guess tried to emulate the MGS3 ladder scene with the long transition and theme song. But from what I gather he wanted to kill all English speakers with a magic spell he found in Africa, and then sell nukes with off-switches that he had control over, and this would then somehow unite the world because everyone would have a nuclear deterrent. Not really far off. Skullface wants to eradicate English to break Cipher's hold on the world, and then use a mass nuclear deterrent to make sure it never comes back. Honestly my problem with Skullface is less his plan(all the villain plans in Metal Gear games are hokey), but the way it's presented- a long rear end jeep ride then he dies a few minutes later. As I said before, I thought this was just the start of the third act.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:24
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I find it kind of funny that this is the thread where people are a lot more critical of the game. I am at the point where the game is pretty fun but at the same time, I am starting to notice a bunch of little flaws that annoy the poo poo out of me.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:25
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Full Battle Rattle posted:I'm so conflicted about this dumb story. I wish it just would have stopped after the sahalanthropus fight. On the plus side, if Konami has some other teams take over MG we might finally get our remakes, so yay I guess. If they're hoping on planning on turning this into an assassin's creed/call of duty type thing (and it looks like they are, it very much fits the mold of assassin's creed) with F2P mechanics we might actually be getting another installment sooner than we think, just without Kojima at the helm. Then again, the fans may revolt, and the team that knows the Fox engine best is seemingly being badgered into quitting. In all honesty, this game actually makes me want a new Metal Gear game, but one without Kojima at the helm. I never thought I'd say that a few months ago.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:26
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blackguy32 posted:I find it kind of funny that this is the thread where people are a lot more critical of the game. I am at the point where the game is pretty fun but at the same time, I am starting to notice a bunch of little flaws that annoy the poo poo out of me. You in Chapter 2 yet? The game's big problems don't really crop up until you've completed the actually finished story.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:28
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Someone found an unused Venom Snake monologue in the files. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JbUfSICGiU Ambient music makes it sound like it's unused cutscene audio rather than an unused tape.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:33
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Mr. Fortitude posted:In all honesty, this game actually makes me want a new Metal Gear game, but one without Kojima at the helm. I never thought I'd say that a few months ago. It seems like franchising it might have been a plan at one point. It may still be. The F2P mechanic (and how well it does financially) will be the determining factor as to whether we ever see another MGS again, because Konami likes money.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:34
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Panzeh posted:You in Chapter 2 yet? No, but I am kind of dreading it, because I am already pretty intensely critical of the game in quite a few areas. Mr. Fortitude posted:In all honesty, this game actually makes me want a new Metal Gear game, but one without Kojima at the helm. I never thought I'd say that a few months ago. I don't know if this game had feature bloat or what, but how long has this game been in development? I understand the engine and all that, but I really think he could have cut his losses and just dumped the Mother Base mechanic. I am also sad that everything that looked cool or interesting in the trailers has fell flat for me so far. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 21:36
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Gortarius posted:So I didn't really understand a word that Skull Face was saying during the jeep scene, which I guess tried to emulate the MGS3 ladder scene with the long transition and theme song. But from what I gather he wanted to kill all English speakers with a magic spell he found in Africa, and then sell nukes with off-switches that he had control over, and this would then somehow unite the world because everyone would have a nuclear deterrent. Basically Skull Face hates Zero because he is using information control and language to essentially "enslave" the world. Since English is the big Lingua Franca that allowed Zero to establish Cipher in the first place, his plan is to "free" the world by eliminating English and forcing everyone back into a dark age where nations can no longer communicate between each other and everyone has access to nuclear weapons. So basically the world is united by being isolated and perpetually fearful of each other. It's kind of similar to Snow Crash / Pontypool, I guess. Zero started his AI project in the 70s, so Skull Face basically saw the writing on the wall with what Cipher was becoming. Skull Face was working with Cipher so that he could get access to Paz, who was the only person who knew Zero's real location. Once he has that info, he double-crosses Cipher and uses the parasites on Zero, which eventually turns him into the vegetable you see in MGS4. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 21:39
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I have been hearing rumors that alot of companies are looking to pick up kojim, his crew and the mgs licenec in one quick cash blow. kinda hope its true.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:39
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What was with all the 'Big Boss is watching you' posters in Chapter 2? Something to do with Kaz's 'you'll be my eyes' speech? Seems a bit ominous but Venom never really says anything about the running of MB.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:40
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blackguy32 posted:I find it kind of funny that this is the thread where people are a lot more critical of the game. I am at the point where the game is pretty fun but at the same time, I am starting to notice a bunch of little flaws that annoy the poo poo out of me. Still a really fun game until the gameplay gets abusive but that's also pretty usual.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:41
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Hardflip posted:What was with all the 'Big Boss is watching you' posters in Chapter 2? Something to do with Kaz's 'you'll be my eyes' speech? This is when Kaz is going full-bore about the possibility of there being spies in Motherbase who are working for Cipher / trying to spread the parasite. So he is basically paranoid as hell and thus the "Big Brother" stuff.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:43
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Basically Skull Face hates Zero because he is using information control and language to essentially "enslave" the world. Since English is the big Lingua Franca that allowed Zero to establish Cipher in the first place, his plan is to "free" the world by eliminating English and forcing everyone back into a dark age where nations can no longer communicate between each other and everyone has access to nuclear weapons. So basically the world is united by being isolated and perpetually fearful of each other. There's also the big point that skull face hates the idea of language control because of his upbringing, the idea of using english to dominate the world is goes against everything he believes and him turning on zero is not that confusing or strange. His motivations actually kinda make sense, in a very metal gear way of course, the series is still fundamentally absurd but in a way I've always loved. Really, I think outside the quiet garbage, which I could quite happily never see again, the story for 5 is quite interesting, ending twist included. I could never shake the sense that something was just WRONG throughout the game, nothing seemed right and venom snake just seemed off to me, it's really clever how that was actually thematically intentional.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:45
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There's a few unexplored moments in Metal Gear history I'd love to see if we are getting a franchise. The Cobras in WW2, Solid Snake's training in the late 80/early 90s with FOXHOUND in their prime... Gyro Zeppeli fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 21:45
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Zero started his AI project in the 70s, so Skull Face basically saw the writing on the wall with what Cipher was becoming. Skull Face was working with Cipher so that he could get access to Paz, who was the only person who knew Zero's real location. Once he has that info, he double-crosses Cipher and uses the parasites on Zero, which eventually turns him into the vegetable you see in MGS4. Those parasites sure are handy. They can kill you or heal you, give you superpowers or turn you into a vegetable, and you can teach them all the different languages and how to speak and give out intel, and last but not least they glow in the dark. They give kid mantis and nanomachines a run for their money as the most overused deus ex machina.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:47
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Gortarius posted:Those parasites sure are handy. They can kill you or heal you, give you superpowers or turn you into a vegetable, and you can teach them all the different languages and how to speak and give out intel, and last but not least they glow in the dark. Metal Gear has always relied on magical macguffins as plot tools, I kinda wish the series would do away with its need to be somewhat plausible, it always just highlights the absurdity of it all. The justification for The End's abilities being those parasites practically ruins him as a character for me. Why can't he just be some weird dude.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:54
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CrashCat posted:You can't really complain about Kojima horseshit without a ton of spoilers. On the other hand if you came into a Kojima game expecting it wouldn't be full of horseshit then lol I was actually expecting the twist to be a bit stronger, and the parasite poo poo makes me roll my eyes out of the back of my head.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:55
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cat doter posted:Metal Gear has always relied on magical macguffins as plot tools, I kinda wish the series would do away with its need to be somewhat plausible, it always just highlights the absurdity of it all. The justification for The End's abilities being those parasites practically ruins him as a character for me. Why can't he just be some weird dude. My problem is that Kojima really does touch on some very strong points in that language is usually one of the first things to go when one is colonized since it is such an application of power over people. But the way Kojima interpreted that into a game is loving parasites. MGS 2 I think had the strongest theme that tied really well into the gameplay since you come to expect certain things when you hear Campbell on the codec.
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Sep 6, 2015 21:58
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blackguy32 posted:I don't know if this game had feature bloat or what, but how long has this game been in development? I understand the engine and all that, but I really think he could have cut his losses and just dumped the Mother Base mechanic. Massive feature bloat. Just the cut content that's immediately obvious probably would have added another year and roughly doubled the game's development budget. It's MGSIV all over again in that regard- Kojima et al. seem to have wanted to implement Every System- the main difference is that this time the stuff that was saved from the cuts was thankfully a more coherent set of gameplay. The tradeoff is that the story is terribad, even by MGS standards.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:00
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:This is when Kaz is going full-bore about the possibility of there being spies in Motherbase who are working for Cipher / trying to spread the parasite. So he is basically paranoid as hell and thus the "Big Brother" stuff. Got it. So at what point did Kaz join Cipher to get revenge on Big Boss by teaching Solid Snake? I know Code Talker mentions him having secret calls in between containers, but I wasn't sure if they'd ever timestamped when he flips.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:04
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Hijo Del Helmsley posted:...Solid Snake's training in the late 80/early 90s with FOXHOUND in their prime... This would be loving sweet. poo poo, even a game with the bad guys of MGS1's Foxhound as the protagonists pre-Shadow Moses. I dunno how that'd be pulled off though, or if they were even all long-term members and operatives at that point :\ Or which you'd play as for that matter.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:05
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Discendo Vox posted:Massive feature bloat. Just the cut content that's immediately obvious probably would have added another year and roughly doubled the game's development budget. It's MGSIV all over again in that regard- Kojima et al. seem to have wanted to implement Every System- the main difference is that this time the stuff that was saved from the cuts was thankfully a more coherent set of gameplay. The tradeoff is that the story is terribad, even by MGS standards. A MGS without feature bloat is not a game I want to play. I wish that Kojima had delayed the game another year and added even more pointless systems like a full digestive/bladder system where you have to regularly poop or else you'll poo poo yourself on the battlefield and lose all of your heroism.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:20
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blackguy32 posted:No, but I am kind of dreading it, because I am already pretty intensely critical of the game in quite a few areas. 5 years development cycle (started right after Peace Walker finished on the PSP), $80 million budget that doesn't include the development of the FOX Engine itself. Doesn't really feel like it had that much money or development time put in when you play it though, huh?
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Sep 6, 2015 22:22
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Mr. Fortitude posted:5 years development cycle (started right after Peace Walker finished on the PSP), $80 million budget that doesn't include the development of the FOX Engine itself. Doesn't really feel like it had that much money or development time put in when you play it though, huh? ugh just stop dude
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Sep 6, 2015 22:33
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Grand Theft Auto V cost 265 million to develop. Now imagine this game with that budget. TPP had a big budget, but it wasn't the insane amount people are making it out to be. Hell, Max Payne 3 cost $20 million more than TPP to develop. Microsoft sunk $90 million into a Halo MMO that never even got released.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:36
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Broseph Brostar posted:A MGS without feature bloat is not a game I want to play. I wish that Kojima had delayed the game another year and added even more pointless systems like a full digestive/bladder system where you have to regularly poop or else you'll poo poo yourself on the battlefield and lose all of your heroism. While that does sound remarkably Kojima-esque, it's probably this tendency to go massively over budget, miss deadlines by years, and continuously court controversy that got Konami to rethink videogame development generally. Imagine what the metal gear series budgeting process must look like for a company that's diversified into fitness centers and gambling machines. edit: it's not about the budget size, it's about the budget size compared with what you had originally planned for.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:36
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Mr. Fortitude posted:5 years development cycle (started right after Peace Walker finished on the PSP), $80 million budget that doesn't include the development of the FOX Engine itself. Doesn't really feel like it had that much money or development time put in when you play it though, huh? I disagree. It does feel like they put a bunch of money into it. It's just that many of it is in the wrong areas. There are some aspects of the game that just feel really pointless. Like the whole having to return to base to shower. Hell, just get rid of almost every thing dealing with mother base. Grizzled Patriarch posted:Grand Theft Auto V cost 265 million to develop. Now imagine this game with that budget. In the spirit of the thread, I think its the matter of spending that much and quite a bit of the game feeling like an unfinished shell. I mean Red Dead Redemption, a game that was plagued with development problems and cost I believe $100 million to develop, actually wrapped itself up well blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 22:38
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lovely Wizard posted:... Psycho Mantis who magically cures him of his parasite ( and who is magnitudes more powerful than their MGS1 for some reason). do we really know if he "cures" him? i interpreted the cut ending scene where he "pulls out" the parasite as it being one of his illusions all along.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:42
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Funky Britches posted:ugh just stop dude Stop what? It's not like I'm the only one here disappointed by the game and the main thread shouldn't be cluttered up with posts of why people are disappointed. Unless you love the game and you're mad because some people find it good, but not amazing? Grizzled Patriarch posted:Grand Theft Auto V cost 265 million to develop. Now imagine this game with that budget. True but GTA V had a ton of licensed tracks and other stuff and some of the publicity stunts Kojima pulled during the games production couldn't have been that cheap surely. They did do an excellent job with the trailers and other aspects of marketing the game though.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:42
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I could really see Ocelot being kind of proud of the way Liquid turned out and wanting to help him.
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Sep 6, 2015 22:44
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Mr. Fortitude posted:True but GTA V had a ton of licensed tracks and other stuff and some of the publicity stunts Kojima pulled during the games production couldn't have been that cheap surely. They did do an excellent job with the trailers and other aspects of marketing the game though. yeah kojima dressing up in bandages cost a few million seriously dude you're trying to figure out how they budgeted the development when you have zero information
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Sep 6, 2015 22:45
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Mr. Fortitude posted:True but GTA V had a ton of licensed tracks and other stuff and some of the publicity stunts Kojima pulled during the games production couldn't have been that cheap surely. They did do an excellent job with the trailers and other aspects of marketing the game though. GTA V also is part of a more popular franchise that made its budget back 3 or 4 times over. $1 billion in revenue is a shitload of money, especially since it made that in 3 days.
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Phantom Pain being on every console in existence will help, as will the good reviews. The fact that I can't stop playing or thinking about it also helps. I need to unplug though, I was walking around outside and thought I heard the tag noise and started looking around. I don't usually marathon games like this, and in a way I'm kind of glad it's over. EDIT: I expect to see a pretty big backlash next week as more people get to the much weaker second half. We'll see though. Full Battle Rattle fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 22:48
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