|
Hazdoc posted:This is strongly linked to torpedo reload time, with some bias to the changes in playstyle as tiers rise. Since torpedo reload time increases so dramatically with tiers, the Minekaze's weaker torpedoes are still vastly more impactful in game due to it having more chances to HIT with those torpedoes and do meaningful damage to hostile ships. Parts of the problem are also linked with higher tier BB's having phenomenally higher HP and better torpedo defenses, as well as CVs getting more dominant with faster and more aircraft to fill the skies (as well as being faster and bulkier themselves, making rushing them less impactful). I agree. It was bad back then and is bad now. The Hatsuharu managed to singlehandedly kill my desire to play DDs simply because if you missed you had to sit around for two minutes doing absolutely nothing with awful turret traverse. You simply couldn't fill the sea with torpedoes and to get in range to guarantee a hit that wasn't around an island corner usually meant losing half your health. I switched to CAs afterwards. The Mogami and Cleveland were beautiful in comparison. Granted, I still think DDs are probably the class that has the highest skill ceiling, but it might be artificial due to the restrictions imposed upon them as a whole.
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
Hazdoc posted:This is strongly linked to torpedo reload time, with some bias to the changes in playstyle as tiers rise. Since torpedo reload time increases so dramatically with tiers, the Minekaze's weaker torpedoes are still vastly more impactful in game due to it having more chances to HIT with those torpedoes and do meaningful damage to hostile ships. Parts of the problem are also linked with higher tier BB's having phenomenally higher HP and better torpedo defenses, as well as CVs getting more dominant with faster and more aircraft to fill the skies (as well as being faster and bulkier themselves, making rushing them less impactful). This has been my greatest issue. Even if the Minekaze's 10k torps didn't really have the kind of murder impact one could hope for the reload time and the 3x 2 torps meant that I could pull the trigger without making a life commitment. Even when lining up perfect shots at 7-10k the chugboat torps have such a poor hit/miss ratio that having my reload murdered really feels like it takes me out of the fight. Especially when all it takes is for a BB to not make so much as a 10* change to its heading. Forget hitting cruisers outside of dead luck. I guess I'm just not sure what my role is supposed to be anymore. Might be that I'm approaching the game improperly now. But it really just feels like a hanging end on the part of the game's overall design. Or, you know, grind more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 00:27
|
|
|
I've experimented in a few games with tossing off torpedo salvoes nearer to max range on people in areas of the map where they just can't maneuver as well. Sort of looking for the same types of shots I would try to line up in a CV game with torp bombers. So sort of like perpendicular to the way I'd set up an island gank, and with much lower risk/reward. I have also been trying to stick with the main body of my team and drop torps on enemies who're engaged with another ship rather than ninjaing out from behind island cover or rushing the back line. I'm not sure if I'm on the right track, but it feels like this is more Wargaming's "intended" playstyle, if that makes sense. Although getting wrecked by a stay salvo while not spotted just cuz you were too close to an ally being shot at by an enemy who doesn't know how to lead his shots is the worst feeling.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 00:40
|
|
|
Well, the other thing is a Minekaze can influence a fight a lot even if the torps don't hit because you can fire them often enough to remain a very visible threat while staying hidden and force the target to maneuver, retreat, or look for you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
Hazdoc posted:Also, to rub salt in the wound, higher tier DD's have higher detection ranges on their torpedoes, increasing the amount of time targets have to react to hostile torpedoes. Because cutting the reload speed wasn't enough, I guess. The relationship between diameter and warning time applies even though the top tier US torpedoes outperform the first oxygen torpedoes. Green Dam posted:Granted, I still think DDs are probably the class that has the highest skill ceiling, but it might be artificial due to the restrictions imposed upon them as a whole. It depends on what you mean by ceiling. Outside of base capture, even a good high tier destroyer is significantly less useful than a good player in any other ship class, but the improvement over a bad destroyer is pretty big.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 00:56
|
|
|
DDs are terrible but they're enormously fun to play, which is a shame.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 00:58
|
|
|
I was pretty down on the Ibuki after playing the Mogami with the 6in guns + captain skills so much, but I just had a game where the Ibuki became the ultimate destroyer of ... destroyers. When one of them complained I must be hacking after having killing 4 of them so far, I proclaimed in chat "DDs are easy to kill, and imma kill one more". And lo, I hunted down and killed the last DD pretty easily. Still, I'll be happy to get the Zao in ~200k exp :/ 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 01:07
|
|
|
Does anyone else get the sense that it was much easier to carry games in WoT than in WoWS? I've had a string of about five games in a row now where I'm in the top 1 or 2 for exp on my team but we still lost miserably. This game hurts my soul 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 01:13
|
|
|
UV_Catastrophe posted:Does anyone else get the sense that it was much easier to carry games in WoT than in WoWS? I've had a string of about five games in a row now where I'm in the top 1 or 2 for exp on my team but we still lost miserably.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 01:15
|
|
|
With WoWS you have to rely on concealment (ie. Destroyers) to hopefully shotgun stuff with torpedo, otherwise you won't be able to overturn the game due to accumulated damage on your ship. MWO has similar characteristics as well.
Aesis fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Sep 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 01:45
|
|
|
And when you're spotted, you flop around like a fish out of water waiting 60s for your torpedo cooldown, avoiding never-ending fire from that Atlanta chasing you. I'm half-way through the Hatsuharu, yeah it's a step up from the Mutsuki, but it's really hard to consistently effect influence/change in a match on a game-to-game basis like you can in a cruiser.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 01:50
|
|
|
James Garfield posted:It depends on what you mean by ceiling. Outside of base capture, even a good high tier destroyer is significantly less useful than a good player in any other ship class, but the improvement over a bad destroyer is pretty big. I mostly meant that is is pretty hard to do well in a DD compared to any other ship class given the way the game works. As you've said, a bad destroyer is basically playing with a ship down, whereas a bad BB or CA can still affect the battle with constant shellfire and not die instantly due to minor mistakes. There's very little compensation if you miss your torpedoes (especially from tier 6 onward as your reloads get progressively longer), and you can't really angle or terrain play anywhere as much as you can in World of Tanks. As well, how long it takes to flex across the map in even a fast ship compared to how well medium tanks can influence a game is a bit unfortunate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 02:42
|
|
|
Meh just nerf HE damage more so it's actually better to shoot AP and try to pen instead. WoT has it right, idk why WoWS can't. Also increase AP shell penetration a bit more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 02:55
|
|
|
Umm, so i unlocked the New Mexico and decided to take out the New York for one final ride to get my x2 before i sold it for the New Mexico, i got thrown into a tier 8 match and immediately regretted it. and then this happened..    Now i'm debating on if i should just hang on to this thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 03:41
|
|
|
You BB guys are making me wanna grind up BBs. I like the heavy support role of them, but I'm terrible at them it seems
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 04:14
|
|
|
As much I'd like to float BBs I hate low tier's slow speed  waiting until Tirpitz or enough free xp to North Carolina.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 04:15
|
|
|
Aesis posted:As much I'd like to float BBs I hate low tier's slow speed What I was planning, wish I could just buy the loving Tirp now. I'd abuse the poo poo outta it
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 04:18
|
|
|
Thronde posted:You BB guys are making me wanna grind up BBs. I like the heavy support role of them, but I'm terrible at them it seems Cruisers just feel better to me. There's something about BBs and the solidification of the "well, I guess I'm going over here this match" factor that I don't really love. I haven't driven any of the fast(er) ones, but the lower tier ones just take the ponderous pace of the game and run with it. Slowly. You know what I mean. Maybe they'll be more fun with the whole CV pointing at you and saying goodbye factor reduced somewhat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 04:19
|
|
|
Thronde posted:What I was planning, wish I could just buy the loving Tirp now. I'd abuse the poo poo outta it
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 04:19
|
|
|
So now I've lost my Nagato to both of the tier 4 DDs. I really underestimate those guys.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 04:59
|
|
|
Secondaries should be murdering them as soon as they enter torp range, assuming you have the secondary mods and a properly trained captain. That is one of the fun things about the Nagato.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 05:44
|
|
|
grrarg posted:Secondaries should be murdering them as soon as they enter torp range, assuming you have the secondary mods and a properly trained captain. That is one of the fun things about the Nagato.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 05:46
|
|
|
It was actually a really great ambush, I congratulated him in chat right after.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 05:55
|
|
|
The Clemson is a lord of battle and I will hear no bad words against it. Also, nerfs or no, the Minekaze is still really good. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Sep 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 05:56
|
|
|
Aesis posted:I thought Tier 4 IJN DD has 7 km torp range. Either way getting the secondary range up is very useful, it can fend off a DD as you run away from it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 08:02
|
|
|
grrarg posted:Nagato secondaries can reach 7km with the secondary range module and captain training. The IJN tier 4 DD will not be seen at 7km though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 08:39
|
|
|
grrarg posted:Nagato secondaries can reach 7km with the secondary range module and captain training. My Nagato's secondaries just vaporized a cleveland in about 10 seconds, granted he was about 2km away but still 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 08:39
|
|
|
grrarg posted:Nagato secondaries can reach 7km with the secondary range module and captain training. 7.2km actually. The bonuses get added subsequently. And you can reach 7.6km range by using the close quarters flag. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 10:33
|
|
|
The majority of the Nagato secondaries fire AP, which just seems like a bad idea all around. Or not? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 11:28
|
|
|
Kuntz posted:The majority of the Nagato secondaries fire AP, which just seems like a bad idea all around. Or not? TBH the only thing you're losing out on is some fire chance. Even with that you still stand a pretty good chance of setting things that enter your secondary range on fire, and the AP gives them more chances to do damage to things on hits where an HE shell wouldn't have started a fire.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 12:56
|
|
|
Any EU players looking to div up stick xBurtx on contacts and give me a shout when you see me. I play all from tiers 2 to 8.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 13:58
|
|
|
PirateBob posted:7.2km actually. The bonuses get added subsequently. And you can reach 7.6km range by using the close quarters flag. This is why I can't wait to get the Izumo and have nearly 10km secondaries. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 14:54
|
|
|
Burt posted:Any EU players looking to div up stick xBurtx on contacts and give me a shout when you see me. I play all from tiers 2 to 8. I will keep an eye out as Panzerblitz. Seems only very few EU goons play this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 15:40
|
|
|
So, I tried out shooting a Cleveland's AP at the less armored front and back of a battleship from close range and side on and discovered I was getting multiple penetrations for like 8000 damage a volley.  I mean, sure, you don't actually want to get that close to a BB in a Cleveland and should annoy him by making GBS threads all over him and dancing at 14km, but when it works, it works.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 15:50
|
|
|
http://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/bad-advice-battleships/ I have to say while it is nice to give players an idea how to play a class, that is some horrible advice. quote:Sniping is definitely a great strategy, but don't be afraid to mix it up in close combat. Have they tried to reliably hit something with sniping, let alone citadel something?
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 16:32
|
|
|
Snipe in battleships and don't berate pubbies? That article is about as wrong as wrong gets.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 16:47
|
|
|
This article seems to be more of a consequence of how pubbies play battleships rather than advice on how not to play them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 16:54
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:So, I tried out shooting a Cleveland's AP at the less armored front and back of a battleship from close range and side on and discovered I was getting multiple penetrations for like 8000 damage a volley. My five cents of bad player advice is stick with the pack. When you get into range where your ships have engaged then you can try to end around and dispense your special brand of pain while they are distracted. Sure you are a high priority target but good luck them getting their guns turned around to fire on you plus someone else is still going to be potentially shooting much more dangerous rounds into them. And if it's two or three Cleveland's and you can spilt the other ship firing from all sides then bonus. I always run when I see more than one Cleveland riding in a pack. gently caress that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 17:34
|
|
|
I'm undecided wether I should keep or sell my Aoba. Selling my Cleveland was a no-brainer since I didn't like the guns.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 18:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
 Pubbieswhy.jpg. This would've been my x2, too. I took out 4 T6 BBs with a Nicholas. 4.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2015 18:23
|
|