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Joementum posted:Rick Santorum will never win the nomination of the Republican party, but that doesn't make him a joke candidate like Cain, Bachmann, Carson, or Trump. Because one could make a case that this is also what the joke candidates are hoping to get out of this.
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Sep 7, 2015 19:52
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NotJesus posted:OK but what is he doing there then? Running for a VP slot? Trying to get a job at Fox News? Hoping to sell books at some point in the future?
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Sep 7, 2015 19:54
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Yeah, it's hard to understand looking at it from the outside, but all of these guys really believe they can be President. They all have colossal egos and are surrounded by people telling them it can happen.
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Sep 7, 2015 19:57
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And based on the conventional wisdom of the last several cycles and his placement in 2012, Santorum should be leading the pack right now. But he's not because the circumstances behind his placement in 2012 were exceptional and nobody actually likes him
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Sep 7, 2015 20:01
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HP Artsandcrafts posted:Here's a really good article and audio clip about the rise of evangelical capitalism that we see in the Tea Party today. http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/396365659/how-one-nation-didnt-become-under-god-until-the-50s-religious-revival I think the Red Scare had a huge role as well. Conservative religious folks were fiercely anti-communist, because of communism's embrace of athiesm. Southern racists began equating communism with civil rights, because of shitlords like Strom Thurmond. In 1948, Thurmond said Truman's civil rights platform had "its origin in communist ideology" and was intended to "excite race and class hatred... create the chaos and confusion that leads to communism," and then proceeded to bolt the Democratic Party, because of its capture by Reds, etc. The general purging of the American Left in the late 40s and 50s was incredibly damaging, but the linkage of religious groups to race realists and corporatists through anti-communism was devastating.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:11
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Good Citizen posted:And based on the conventional wisdom of the last several cycles and his placement in 2012, Santorum should be leading the pack right now. But he's not because the circumstances behind his placement in 2012 were exceptional and nobody actually likes him
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Sep 7, 2015 20:11
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Smoothrich posted:Leave it to the guy with the Communist Jew avatar representing "progressive populism but u know not the racist kind like Trump is doing" to be the one using loaded terms like "evil" and "black guy" together to refer to a world-renowned neurosurgeon who has spent his entire providing healthcare in cities like Baltimore and Detroit after being raised by highly religious Southern parents. Like many black.. or any color really.. Americans who go on to become successful after growing up dirt poor in any number of America's horrible cities, Detroit in Carson's case, he had the military, religion, education, and his parents as anchors while surely many of his friends and peers growing up were selling heroin, smoking crack, shooting handguns at each other and police as street soldiers in gangs that provide all the drugs and guns to these communities in the first place, and Carson went on to be a surgeon working in Detroit for 30 years so he probably saw victims of shootings and crap every day. In fact, his life story is much more typical of an "African-American" than Obama's who was raised with overwhelming "white privilege" as people like to say nowdays. People who grow up in slums but end up successful after decades of hard work and pop up on Fox News here and there probably can't believe they survived growing up in the first place, and often give religion, law enforcement, etc a lot of credit. Yet even black people get called racist for talking about what they did as a poor black person to become successful, this is so commonplace with "left-wing people" nowadays it blows my genuinely left-wing mind. Your post would have merit if those life stories weren't bookended with "abolish the social safety net, gently caress the VRA, kill all poors" policies.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:12
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CheesyDog posted:Saying that being a Senator or Governor makes you a serious candidate for President sounds weird because every single candidate with those qualifications is in one way or another a Stupid rear end in a top hat 'rear end in a top hat' and 'serious' aren't mutually exclusive though. JT Jag posted:If he wasn't so self-centered I'd hope Trump's entire campaign was a Penn Gilette from Alpha House stunt. Man, I forgot all about that storyline! Are we ever getting a third season of Alpha House? spacing in vienna posted:I seem to be the only person who actually got your joke. Shame on the rest of us, including me. It seems so obvious now.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:15
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I'd be incredibly disappointed if that scenario were to happen, because I think telling cronies to stuff it is something that should be rewarded with legitimacy
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Sep 7, 2015 20:18
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NotJesus posted:Yeah but a lot of people polling ahead of Santorum right now (Christie, Bush, Rubio) were sitting 2012 out and biding their time. So Santorum's "2nd place behind Romney" doesn't mean the same thing as Romney's "2nd place behind McCain". YOU LIE!  That's Rep. Joe Wilson on the right
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Sep 7, 2015 20:18
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Joementum posted:Yeah, it's hard to understand looking at it from the outside, but all of these guys really believe they can be President. They all have colossal egos and are surrounded by people telling them it can happen. Also Santorum does have a historically accurate argument that he came from nowhere this time 2011 to winning Iowa. Of course Ron Paul stole all but 1 of the delegates later and he only won by 34 votes against Mitt, but he did win. Unfortunately he seems to have forsaken the sweater vest, thus has the sweater vest's electoral power deserted him. Also the religious voting block has several choices this time instead of just Ricky.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:25
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Joementum posted:Correct. I was trying to make a distinction between candidates like Mitt Romney and Herman Cain. Rick Santorum will never win the nomination of the Republican party, but that doesn't make him a joke candidate like Cain, Bachmann, Carson, or Trump.  I thought you were smart or something
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Sep 7, 2015 20:37
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Gyges posted:Unfortunately he seems to have forsaken the sweater vest, thus has the sweater vest's electoral power deserted him.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:38
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Joementum posted:Everyone except Trump, Fiorina, Carson, and Cruz. Spot me Rubio as an honorary joke candidate and I'll  bet you that one of the jokes win this primary
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Sep 7, 2015 21:00
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Obviously, Joementum, Trump's lack of political experience or elite support is a major disadvantage. But if Trump does manage to beat the odds and win the nomination, would his legitimization by voters make him serious? Or do you think there is a difference between popular legitimacy and the kind of institutional seriousness you refer to?
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Sep 7, 2015 21:12
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How is Rubio a joke candidate? He'll be the next governor of Florida and will probably run again in 2020 or 20204.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:12
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Aliquid posted:How is Rubio a joke candidate? He'll be the next governor of Florida and will probably run again in 2020 or 20204. He looked silly drinking water once. (I just thought it would even the odds)
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Sep 7, 2015 21:14
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At this point I feel Rubio has better odds than Bush or Walker.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:19
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Aliquid posted:How is Rubio a joke candidate? He'll be the next governor of Florida and will probably run again in 2020 or 20204. I dunno, he's gonna be pretty old by 20204.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:21
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Aliquid posted:How is Rubio a joke candidate? He'll be the next governor of Florida and will probably run again in 2020 or 20204. EDIT: Beaten, gently caress you and your skyscraper.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:21
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Its majesty is unparalleled.HappyHippo posted:At this point I feel Rubio has better odds than Bush or Walker. Rubio is lucky that he's been getting mostly ignored so far, but I'd agree that Rubio has a better chance that Jeb! given how badly Jeb! has been the past few weeks.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:24
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I think Rubio might have the best chance of the Republican establishment candidates to win the general.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:25
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HappyHippo posted:At this point I feel Rubio has better odds than Bush or Walker. On the one hand, he hasn't managed to repeatedly own himself publicly since announcing, unlike Bush or Walker. On the other hand, at least that's kept them in the news! 
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Sep 7, 2015 21:26
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Spacebump posted:I think Rubio might have the best chance of the Republican establishment candidates to win the general.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:30
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William Bear posted:Obviously, Joementum, Trump's lack of political experience or elite support is a major disadvantage. The premise of the question is flawed because Donald Trump cannot and will not win the nomination. The reasons for this are stated in your first sentence.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:31
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Joementum posted:The premise of the question is flawed because Donald Trump cannot and will not win the nomination. The reasons for this are stated in your first sentence. I'm of the opinion that he wasn't at first but he is now.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:32
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JT Jag posted:Joementum, is Bernie Sanders is a serious candidate? Under the definition of "serious candidate" I was using earlier to distinguish between Rick Santorum and Donald Trump, yes, he is. Under a definition of "serious candidate" which means "capable of winning the nomination", no, he is not.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:35
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Joementum posted:Under the definition of "serious candidate" I was using earlier to distinguish between Rick Santorum and Donald Trump, yes, he is. Of course he isn't. The thing I can't figure out is if his supporters actually really don't know this. It seems like Bernie himself doesn't even deny it. Even when he announced he said it was about making sure the left had a voice in the discourse or something to that effect.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:06
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breaklaw posted:Of course he isn't. The thing I can't figure out is if his supporters actually really don't know this. It seems like Bernie himself doesn't even deny it. Even when he announced he said it was about making sure the left had a voice in the discourse or something to that effect.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:13
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-makes-voters-sign-loyalty-pledge-before-entering-event/quote:Attendees at a Hillary Clinton campaign event in Cleveland, Ohio, were asked to sign a pledge promising to vote for the candidate before they were allowed into the venue.  Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the inevitable nominee and future president. This is totally not an out-of-touch and souring act of desperation that stays in peoples minds.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:14
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breaklaw posted:The thing I can't figure out is if his supporters actually really don't know this. I think there are the people who can see reality for what it is but will still vote for Bernie so that his influence on the party platform is as large as possible, and those who need Bernie Sanders to win in order to stay motivated and involved. The second group will be providing high comedy (ok, low comedy) come election time.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:15
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MrBims posted:http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-makes-voters-sign-loyalty-pledge-before-entering-event/ Aww, that's cute. A couple of students attending babby's first political rally were handed a pledge card and got all offended.  She's been handing those out for months now. Her Twitter feed is littered with pictures of supporters holding up their pledge cards. It's an easy and effective way to collect contact information for the campaign. As her campaign pointed out to Mediaite, you don't have to sign it to attend the event.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:18
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MrBims posted:Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the inevitable nominee and future president. This is totally not an out-of-touch and souring act of desperation that stays in peoples minds. Just to break my promise to a politician instead of the other way around.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:18
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MrBims posted:http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-makes-voters-sign-loyalty-pledge-before-entering-event/ They're going full Blairite, huh?
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Sep 7, 2015 22:18
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MrBims posted:http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-makes-voters-sign-loyalty-pledge-before-entering-event/ Low content I know but seriously
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Sep 7, 2015 22:18
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MrBims posted:http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-makes-voters-sign-loyalty-pledge-before-entering-event/ Do you actually think that asking someone to fill out a fundraising/volunteering form at a campaign event is the same thing as forcing people to do it as a condition of entry or are you just playing dumb? Politicians collect names at campaign events literally all the time.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:18
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Dr.Zeppelin posted:Do you actually think that asking someone to fill out a fundraising/volunteering form at a campaign event is the same thing as forcing people to do it as a condition of entry or are you just playing dumb? Politicians collect names at campaign events literally all the time.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:19
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What is with establishment candidates and pointless unenforcable loyalty pledges
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Sep 7, 2015 22:20
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MrBims posted:http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-makes-voters-sign-loyalty-pledge-before-entering-event/ This is a really common thing. Duck Durbin had a tear-off postcard so that his campaign could remind you to vote the week before the election.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:22
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Grasping at straws like they have Bernie's signature on the side.
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Sep 7, 2015 22:23
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