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Wade Wilson posted:The protagonist is literally a talking cat. The protagonist of what series? The aeronaughts windlass the talking cat is a side character.
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Sep 3, 2015 12:58
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Between the prologue and chapter 1, I'd somehow gotten the mental image that Captain Grimm was one of those cats.
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Sep 3, 2015 14:37
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:... Michael Swanwyck's human children seized by elves to work in an iron factory in Iron Dragon's Daughter... I've never heard of this before, this sounds pretty neato... *reads the back-jacket blurb on Amazon* ... Holy poo poo this sounds amazing, why have I never heard of this before? *clicks Buy Now* Hieronymous Alloy posted:...All too often it's just "fantasy, but with GOGGLES" and it just makes me despair. There's no point in going victorian-era if you spend all your time riding around in airships and hansom cabs and never set foot in an opium den or a workhouse. I definitely agree people like to look at things like (especially) the Victorian era with sepia-colored goggles, and it's sad.
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Sep 3, 2015 14:47
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What about Butcher's previous writing would make anyone think he's going to gloss over the lovely parts of the Victorian Era? He's never shied from things like that in Dresden or Alera
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Sep 3, 2015 15:23
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I don't think steampunk needs to be Dickensian, but even "Fantasy with Goggles" steampunk needs a certain drive or momentum to it that the previews lack.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:05
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One other really good steampunk novel (well, maybe closer to Spelljammer) is Harm's Way by Colin Greenland. Reason I say Butcher may not be willing to get dark enough is that his Dresden rarely if ever faces a problem he can't solve with sufficient application of force.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:52
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Iron dragons daughter, read maybe halfway through and just couldn't finish it, lots of sex which I usually avoid especially when it seems so pointless , just really not a fan of it and doesn't seem close to as cool as the back blurb suggests. Edit: Sorry I feel I should explain myself a bit more, however I cannot really do that without spoiling aspects of the book so only read these spoilers if you dont mind some of the book being spoiled. The beggining of the story is fantastic, jane is a poor human child stuck in the land of the elves, everything around her is weird, shes in a hellish factory surrounded by strange magic and technology until a sentient dragon/plane calls to her and she uses him to escape. Except that that was probably all the dragons manipulation and she had little choice. The story devolves from their into a series of disjointed accounts of Jane from when she goes into hiding with the dragon so she can go to a school (which is a hellhole full of insanity that makes pretty much zero sense) until she eventually ends up loving a guy to save him from a life of servitude and guess what, dragon manipulated that too because he wanted to break their deal and he basically fucks off and tough poo poo for her, guy she saved kills himself because its dark or something. (also in this part some guy tries to rape her for no reason then her "rescuer" blames it on her? no idea) After that through some sort of magic or something the monster she was sent to for punishment doesnt do anything to her so she lies her way into a scholarship for alchemy in the hopes of something? Anyway none of her experiments work and she eventually steals all her friends stuff when they are in a bar trying to escape from a weird rape elf so her friend has to rely on her, after "saving" her friend from a situation she made herself she forces her friend to explain and guess what, the alchemy doesn't work because she hasnt been having enough sex, thats right, sex magic, if you dont have sex before doing your alchemy at it doesn't work and the author delights in explaining this and describing it. All through this she basically fucks more or less everyone, lies, cheats, steals and generally acts as a terrible individual including leaving friends to die and such. I wont spoil anymore, this is about the 50% mark of the book, but basically it all gets worse and the message of the book is life sucks and is pointless, everything bad will happen and drat but the author doesn't love talking about sex, sex magic, sex alchemy, sex preventing people piloting dragons etc etc etc. In summary I have come to realise I actually hate this book, it's not dark in an interesting way, it's a parody of dark fiction in the worst way full of pointless death, sex and random acts of deus ex machina all coming from a decent beginning and quickly falling downhill into a semi decent story complicated by completely ludicrous changes and twisting events. tl:dr I actually hate this book and its rubbish "so dark and nihilistic sex fiend" plot. Kea fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 17:58
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I see where you're coming from, the latter half of the book especially has a lot of flaws. I still think it does Steampunk setting very, very well though.
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Sep 3, 2015 18:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I see where you're coming from, the latter half of the book especially has a lot of flaws. I still think it does Steampunk setting very, very well though. The factory bit is good and I would love to have read the book the continues on from there but I was just disappointed, I'm sure some people will like it but especially the latter half was so different from my tastes and what I expected from the blurb that I just couldn't enjoy it. Edit: Sometimes I hate reading so quickly, I read a novel a day more or less (depending on length) and I so quickly run out of books to read, as soon as something new comes out Its gone within a day and I;m constantly on the lookout for new books, I think by this point I have read everything mentioned. Kea fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 18:57
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Nothing too earth-shattering from Jim's solo DragonCon panel. He's got three short stories either in the works or coming out soon: a Molly and Ramirez story, the story of Butters' first quest as a Knight (Skin Game spoiler behind that tag), and a story about Harry's first day of jury duty. He confirmed that Mirror, Mirror will follow Peace Talks, which may not be new info but I'd never seen anything attributed directly to him, and he indicated the comics will get a lot more interesting once he opens up parallel worlds he can play around with. An interesting tidbit: Bob and Athena (as in, the daughter of Zeus) were created in largely the same manner that Bonnie, the new spirit of intellect (another SG spoiler), was created. Everyone suspected that was the case for the former, but the implications of the latter are interesting
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Sep 7, 2015 21:30
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"Mirror, Mirror" as a Dresden title kind of feels like cheating.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:55
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I know you said nothing earth shattering was given away but did he make any mention on how peace talks was progressing? I seem to remember he had a hard time writing Ghost Story.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:03
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Rygar201 posted:What about Butcher's previous writing would make anyone think he's going to gloss over the lovely parts of the Victorian Era? He's never shied from things like that in Dresden or Alera
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Sep 8, 2015 02:14
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Poopy Palpy posted:"Mirror, Mirror" as a Dresden title kind of feels like cheating. I imagine the editors put the kibosh on Mirror, Rorrim.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:18
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Dienes posted:I imagine the editors put the kibosh on Mirror, Rorrim. Rorrim Mirror would work though.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:20
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Oroborus posted:I know you said nothing earth shattering was given away but did he make any mention on how peace talks was progressing? I seem to remember he had a hard time writing Ghost Story. He just said he was working on it. However, based on the unique challenges of Ghost Story, and how he ultimately failed to make any headway against them and just defaulted to tried and true Dresden shenanigans, I doubt any of the remaining books will be particularly hard for him to write. Edit: And because my giant Dos Santos print was feeling lonely, I got these: 
Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 03:04
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cheese posted:And what about his writing makes you think he WILL go into it? I love Dresden files but I have to agree with Alloy - at the end of the book, he solves his problems with cunning and force, and the consequences are usually either mostly good or, at worst, an interesting new development winter knight. I'm struggling to think of any time Dresden has had to do something really awful for the greater good, and kind of coming up blank. Steampunk is Victorian England and Victorian England is a poo poo hole of the worst of humanity and the pinnacle of rich people living off of the misery of the poor masses. The shades of grey found in Dresden files are usually only really skin deep. The ending of Changes doesn't count as Harry doing something really awful for the greater good? And there are problems he's been consistently unable to stop, both individual (Molly's downward spiral) and systemic (White Court vampires basically doing whatever they want).
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Sep 8, 2015 05:38
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The world definitely does seem to have become a darker place between Changes and Cold Days in the aftermath if the Red Court collapsing
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Sep 8, 2015 05:45
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Silver2195 posted:The ending of Changes doesn't count as Harry doing something really awful for the greater good? He didn't do it for the greater good; he did it for his daughter. "drat the world, we'll roast marshmallows over it" ring a bell?
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Sep 8, 2015 05:46
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Khizan posted:He didn't do it for the greater good; he did it for his daughter. "drat the world, we'll roast marshmallows over it" ring a bell? Oh yeah, forgot about that.
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Sep 8, 2015 05:47
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Magres posted:The world definitely does seem to have become a darker place between Changes and Cold Days in the aftermath if the Red Court collapsing Correlation, not causation. The (near) extinction of the red court is nothing but a good thing. Dresden dying was what made things worse in Chicago. The fish people joining the scramble to fill the power vacuum probably makes things feel worse to everyone, but it would be so dumb if they are actually a greater threat and evil than the incredibly entrenched and widespread Red Court was.
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Sep 8, 2015 06:27
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The prologue is kind of awful, but the first chapter is fun at least. I can probably enjoy reading about Captain Grimm in his jet-black and bloodred uniform with the skull-shaped silver buttons, if only because I'm picturing all the ether-sail ship talk stuff pretty much exactly as animated in Disney's Treasure Planet. Jury's still out on the talking cats.
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Sep 8, 2015 07:48
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I've been reading the first Laundry Files novel lately. I'm about a hundred pages in, and it's okay so far. Sometimes feels a bit like a technical manual with action scenes, though. A lot of the stuff about computers and what have you honestly just goes over my head.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:18
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Wittgen posted:Correlation, not causation. The (near) extinction of the red court is nothing but a good thing. Dresden dying was what made things worse in Chicago. The fish people joining the scramble to fill the power vacuum probably makes things feel worse to everyone, but it would be so dumb if they are actually a greater threat and evil than the incredibly entrenched and widespread Red Court was. I more meant that the tone of the books in the past couple books feels a little darker. Harry always came off, more or less, scot free at the end of every book previously, or better than he started. It's only really been recently that the people he really, really loves are starting to be hurt by what's going on all around him, whether it's his fault or not. I could be wrong though 
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Sep 8, 2015 09:35
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Wheat Loaf posted:I've been reading the first Laundry Files novel lately. I'm about a hundred pages in, and it's okay so far. Sometimes feels a bit like a technical manual with action scenes, though. A lot of the stuff about computers and what have you honestly just goes over my head.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:45
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Magres posted:I more meant that the tone of the books in the past couple books feels a little darker. Harry always came off, more or less, scot free at the end of every book previously, or better than he started. It's only really been recently that the people he really, really loves are starting to be hurt by what's going on all around him, whether it's his fault or not. I could be wrong though Oh, that's totally fair. Sorry I misinterpreted. It's probably because I get irritated by how the books act like it was really bad that a race of monsters were wiped off the face of the Earth. I understand that things got worse in Chicago, but come on. It's so weird that no one ever thanks Dresden for striking such an unambiguous victory for humanity. I was really expecting Nicodemus, at least, to bring it up.
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Sep 8, 2015 10:28
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Wittgen posted:Correlation, not causation. The (near) extinction of the red court is nothing but a good thing. Dresden dying was what made things worse in Chicago. The fish people joining the scramble to fill the power vacuum probably makes things feel worse to everyone, but it would be so dumb if they are actually a greater threat and evil than the incredibly entrenched and widespread Red Court was. On that note, it's mentioned that the destruction of the Red Court supposed to have caused widespread social, political and economic destabilisation throughout South America because of how deeply infiltrated and embedded they were. I mean, it's given maybe a couple of lines in Changes and I can understand that Butcher probably doesn't want to dwell on it (seeing as it's a bit outside Harry's regular frame of reference), but I'd sort of like to hear more about how people are dealing with that, and even making sense of it. anilEhilated posted:There's going to be less of that as the series progresses and the protagonist's job steadily changes. Right. I mean, it's just that it's a bit impenetrable at times. Feels like there's a lot of worldbuilding being done, except it's being communicated in secret code. :p
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Sep 8, 2015 10:45
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Wittgen posted:Oh, that's totally fair. Sorry I misinterpreted. Agreed. Regardless of the destabilization in the world, full-on annihilating the Red Court is an enormous victory, if for no one else, then the White Council. The White Council really gets the short end of the stick in the narrative - they're portrayed as a bunch of doddering, incompetent, timid old fuddy duddies who, despite all their caution, can't stop an enormous conspiracy from holding huge amounts of influence over their actions as an organization (until Butcher wants a good battle scene, then the real ultimate cosmic power comes out). But when push comes to shove, the White Council goes to the mat for humanity on a regular basis and a lot of them consistently put their lives (and more) on the line in defense of their fellow human beings. The entirety of the Wardens are people who do nothing but go goddamned monster slaying, and as far as I can remember we've seen just about every one of the Senior Council throw down and curbstomp things. The Merlin at the end of Turn Coat is just like 'oh hey most dangerous thing that exists inside this reality or outside of it, no biggie I'll just take as much of the fight as I ask three other senior council members to cover' and Harry continues to thumb his nose at someone who could atomize him with a glare if he felt like it. The worst part is that I'd bet money that at some point the Merlin will die either in some touching moment where he finally recognizes Harry's potential or in some "nyeh nyeh" moment where Harry tries to warn him about something, he ignores it because Harry is an rear end in a top hat about it, and he dies for it (and Harry continues to not understand that being a stubborn, flippant child to everyone he meets, allies included, has consequences). Harry's interactions with the White Council generally annoy me because they're really 'no gently caress YOU, dad.' Really, that's pretty much Harry's approach to everything, it's just usually a lot more justified than when it's with demons and vampires and poo poo than when it's with his fellow wizards, so it doesn't annoy me the way it does with the White Council.
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Sep 8, 2015 11:13
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To be fair a bumbling, incompetent White Council is arguably more realistic, they're like the magic UN.
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Sep 8, 2015 11:22
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The UN gets a lot of poo poo done. Like in 2013-2014 the size of their armed forces was around 80,000 people. Imo the fact that you don't hear about them a ton is a good thing - the UN's job is pretty much to keep the world a boring, safe place. Also the White Council is more like a nuclear-armed UN imo Magres fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 11:46
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The White Council gives Dresden some serious lee way in everything. Its Harry's perception of their actions that paints them in a bad light. They continually give him more slack, Dresden goes and does something crazy and is once again vindicated in his actions. Just taking what the senior council alone knows its staggering. They're first introduced to him as the Son of a famous rouge wizard, who killed a renegade warden as a teen. he has an extremely powerful winter fae godmother. They must be thinking this kid is a major league warlock in the making and yet Mccoy takes up his cause and they trust him enough to let it slide. Then Dresden grows up, flaunts the rules, advertises in the yellow books! He develops an association with practically every heavy hitter, good, evil, and otherwise. The Mob, the police, Fae, Vampires, Denarians, Knights, etc. Harbors fugitives from the white council. Executes Peabody and Corpsetaker, two powerful dark magicians. Picks up Merlins legacy in becoming The Warden. Has the swords of the cross. Destroys the entire red court. Clears out the lower ranks of Fairy nobility, twice, and appoints two of his friends as the winter and summer ladys. Yet they let him be because they know as chaotic and insufferable as he is he always thinks he's doing the right thing. He's also pretty much their top diplomatic connection at this point. As for incompetence, the only time Dresden sees them is when they're being either infiltrated, incompetent, or just misinformed (Often Dresdens fault). Eg, at the end of Proven Guilty they almost kill the red king. At the end of Turn Coat the Merlin trounces a devastating terrorist attack. Archangel happens because of Peabody, They level a section of Cuba(?) in retaliation. I do think that over the next few books Harry's interactions with the Council will be a lot more civil. They'll have to treat him with more respect, he might pick up on that and return it. Half the senior council is on his side and he's slowly mending his relationship with the Merlin. Think of the improvement since the start of the series, its just been very slow in coming.
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Sep 8, 2015 16:12
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Relevant: harry's dossier http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php?topic=19774.0
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Sep 8, 2015 16:46
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Wittgen posted:Oh, that's totally fair. Sorry I misinterpreted. For a lot of people, it was a really bad thing that a race of monsters was wiped off the face of the earth. Not because they sympathized with the Red Court or because the Red Court wasn't monstrous, but because the Red Court was an ancient and established power and the power struggle that followed the death of the Red Court has impacted them far more than the Red Court ever did. You have to remember that this isn't a case of "Vampires are some monstrous scourge that everybody wanted dead". The Red Court was an established and legitimate power in the magical community. Signatory to the Unseelie Accords. The White Council was at peace with them before Harry sparked the war. For most of the world outside of their strongholds in Central America, the Red Court just wasn't a thing that they had to worry about. It was the monster they knew, and they hadn't ever really had any problems with it. And then the entirety of the Red Court goes down overnight and everything goes to poo poo. People who'd never really had to worry about the Red Court are now having to deal with the Fomor snatching people off of the loving streets. For much of the world this is not an unambiguous victory for mankind, it was trading the monster that they knew for something even worse.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:13
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Its not that people didn't know the red court was evil. Its just their evil was hidden with bureaucracy. They had thousands of political slaves. They disappeared millions of people for food and fodder. It was just run cleanly like a proper evil organization. The magical world was bloodied by the war already ongoing with the red court. They're now recovering. Where as if the red court was still an enemy they would still be weakening across the board. The Fomor are just taking the confusion and power vacuum left by the red court to act more overtly then any previous supernatural baddie. They're deliberately striking the weak magical community to weaken the White Council as it licks its wounds.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:09
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It's sort of like if there's a herd of zebra, and lions kill half of the babies and 15% of the adults each year, but they keep out the wild dogs, hyenas, and leopards. Suddenly, the lions are gone and the other animals are eating 80% of the babies and 20% of the adults, overall it's not a good thing that the lions are gone.
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Sep 9, 2015 01:40
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But rather than saying I wish the red court was still around people should be getting around to nuking the formor too.
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Sep 9, 2015 07:18
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ConfusedUs posted:Relevant: harry's dossier quote:Notice of confrontation with magical being (Age 36)
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Sep 9, 2015 07:20
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Personal note: Apparently he's not a complete idiot. Who knew?
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Sep 9, 2015 07:32
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Remember when the Red Court gassed a civilian (presumably full of muggles) hospital just to get at a few hundred Wardens inside? Meanwhile the Former have largely just been waging a shadow war. The only reason why they're so scary is that the forces arrayed against them in the US boiled down to a handful of scattered Wizards, four low power werewolves, and a bunch of people with guns who are riding herd on a lot of weak civilians who don't know anything about self defense. The Formor are an unexpected threat, but I'm not sure whether they'd be a worse one for your average low power cunning person (and it's been long established that none of the major powers really give a poo poo about them anyways). Hell, vampires were already taking out Joe I-Don't-Have-Enough-Power-to-be-Considered-A-Wizard. Remember White Night?
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Sep 9, 2015 07:56
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That was an entirely different Vampire Court and, aside from that, it wasn't a 'real' White Court strategy. Lara pointed them down that path specifically because she knew that it would draw them into conflict with Dresden; the entire goal of the plan was for it to draw (literal) fire from the White Council's local representative. And I would think that the Fomor would be a much worse threat for your average low-power cunning-man, because the Fomor are literally putting out craigslists ads and paying out several thousand dollars a head for minor talents and there's a big difference between "might eat me if I'm convenient and it's hungry" and "actively putting a price on my head."
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Sep 9, 2015 08:23
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