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The Colonel posted:At first, Adlet wondered why he cared about this girl. He's in love with what he hates most. e: And so is she.
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Sep 9, 2015 02:31
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Kild posted:He's in love with what he hates most. I'm pretty sure he doesn't hate tits.
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Sep 9, 2015 04:20
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Really though, who doesn't like their ladies a little horny.
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Sep 9, 2015 04:55
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Kylra posted:Really though, who doesn't like their ladies a little horny.  I'm surprised he didn't go for Nash though, an attractive young princess seems like a no-brainer. Maybe that time she tried to kill him and played it off as a prank didn't jive with him.
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Sep 9, 2015 07:56
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NowonSA posted:
Boob straps >>>>>>>> Boob windows
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Sep 9, 2015 07:59
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NowonSA posted:
Adlet's not into beach bunnies.
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Sep 9, 2015 08:02
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One thing to reiterate is just how much of an all-or-nothing gambit this is for Maura. If Adlet was the Seventh, everything she's done is justified and they can go off to murder Satan. If she kills Adlet, the barrier stays up, and their marks lose a petal, she's led the Braves into a gigantic fuckup by lying to them. Beforehand, she was above suspicion as the commander of the world's Saints and the most senior officer in the war effort, but that now puts her on the top of the suspect list for everyone else. She might still keep Chamot, but she's the only one, and even then it's not a guarantee (her loyalty is mostly out of fear). Saint of Mountains or no, she'd be dead in seconds.
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Sep 9, 2015 09:06
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Yeah, for as much as we've seen literally everyone but Goldov and Adlet try to kill one another, it's definitely a huge deal if someone dies and the brave marks remain the same. You're crossing one hell of a final line when you do that, even Maura was willing to hesitate once he surrendered to at least try to find out who's pulling Adlet's strings. If Maura shares Adlet's proof of Flamie's innocence then the killer is probably going to the front of the line. Adlet's messed everything up so much by now though that you might want to take one dead Brave and call it a victory, which would align with Nash going after Adlet now if she's the seventh. We also have to assume a general level of competence among all the braves too, since they've had their guard down among one another a LOT, including a night spent sleeping with only 1-2 people on watch at a time, and the seventh didn't just go around slitting throats or what have you. I guess that might fall more under an uninteresting story if it was just like "Yeah, Hans was the Seventh, and that night when almost everyone was sleeping he stabbed the person on watch in the back then killed everyone silently in their sleep."
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Sep 9, 2015 10:11
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The only way I can make sense of Maura's actions aside from her being dumb is that she might be thinking that even if Adlet wasn't the seventh, killing a real brave will reveal the seventh since (presumably?) their mark won't lose a petal due to being a counterfeit. Seems like the kind of calculated risk she might take, even if she was wrong about Adlet none of the others would kill her. I suppose the counterfeit could be so good that it loses a petal too, but that seems pretty far fetched. Then again it's all magic. The author really should have established the ground rules better or else not relied on magic so much. Her motivation could just be 'I'm the seventh' but I'm leaning away from that because we rely on her as the only source of information on some of the ground rules of the mystery, and if she's the seventh and could have lied about any of it, that just makes the whole mystery pointless. I guess this leaves Nach as the most likely suspect, but if she's the seventh, why didn't she take out Adlet properly, or at least just leave him in the jail to rot, or do literally anything besides actually help him? I could buy that maybe she has internal conflict about being the seventh, but that would be such a cop out to have her act both toward and against the seventh's interests. I'm still gonna say it'll end up being Nach since it being anyone else will be boring, but rather than being a solvable mystery it's just going to get handwaved, since everything so far seems to suggest the author plots things pretty loosely. I hope I'm wrong though and there's some crazy left field solution that will make everything make sense. Xy Hapu fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 14:18
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Xy Hapu posted:I guess this leaves Nach as the most likely suspect, but if she's the seventh, why didn't she take out Adlet properly, or at least just leave him in the jail to rot Holy poo poo. None of this would be happening if Adlet had simply been left behind or killed before meeting anyone. The 7th would have been totally accepted into the group because there's only 6 of them there... why should anyone suspect an impostor if all the details match up? So if Nash is the 7th, why not leave Adlet behind or dead? I don't see any motive right now. Perhaps her lie about Hans was her grasping at straws in an attempt to exonerate Adlet, and her personality shift was simply a result of her losing her poo poo. My money's back on Maura.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:12
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What if...the characters were so self-aware they just hosed up a big part of the story.  It would suck. dogsicle fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 15:15
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ViggyNash posted:Holy poo poo. The 7th didn't kill anybody because the petal tatto would show it. So unless you think Maura lied about that, it doesn't discount Nash's opportunities to kill either Adlet or Goldov.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:17
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If Adlet was killed after becoming a brave, one of the petals on the symbol would disappear, so everyone would know there are 5 left. If Adlet was killed before becoming a brave, someone else would become a brave. If he was left behind, he is still a brave and might secure an escape in less controllable terms.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:18
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ViggyNash posted:Holy poo poo. And this somehow doesn't apply to Hans because...? Maura was left alone with him for a whole day. There's some reason that the 7th doesn't just kill everyone all willy nilly despite having the opportunities.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:37
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It still makes no sense for Nach to spare Adlet, since killing him would result in the same scenario we have now, except one less brave to deal with. Seems like a win for the fiends. It also makes me wonder why she decided to frame Adlet of all people, since he would have her back in the event she is suspected. It's even more strange since she made a conscious decision to spare him earlier on, but is now throwing him to the wolves. Kild posted:There's some reason that the 7th doesn't just kill everyone all willy nilly despite having the opportunities. Why would the seventh create this whole scenario if they didn't want anyone to die though? Xy Hapu fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 15:37
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Xy Hapu posted:It still makes complete sense for Nach to kill Adlet since that results in the same scenario we have now, except one less brave to deal with. Seems like a win for the fiends. My bet? She figures Maura outflanked her and/or Adlet did something a bit too stupid, making him a liability rather than a useful pawn like Goldov. She may believe he really did gently caress up Hans in a fight, which would make his innocence really hard to prove. I mean, yeah, she wants Hans dead too, but there are ways and means.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:42
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The ideal situation for the seventh brave is to have the braves destroy themselves in the most literal terms: braves killing other braves. Anyone who kills someone else on the pretenses of being a false brave becomes the next most likely suspect after it turns out that, no, that last guy was legit. If at any point the plan goes wrong, the seventh brave has to hypothetically fight everyone still left alive at the same time. It's in their best interest to have as many real braves killing other real braves as possible, so that when the seventh has to get their own hands dirty the chance of them getting overpowered is marginalized.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:50
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Darth Walrus posted:My bet? She figures Maura outflanked her and/or Adlet did something a bit too stupid, making him a liability rather than a useful pawn like Goldov. She may believe he really did gently caress up Hans in a fight, which would make his innocence really hard to prove. I mean, yeah, she wants Hans dead too, but there are ways and means. I meant why didn't she kill Adlet at the start of the series. You bring up a good point though, why would she try to kill Adlet now? Seems stupid when Maura's already doing the work for her, and helping Maura will just make her look suspicious as well when Adlet is dead. Also being the only person to have believed in Adlet's innocence all along would be a pretty good cover when it turns out he really was innocent. I guess the more I think about it the less likely Nach is the seventh just due to how nonsensical that would be. Damnit. Xy Hapu fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 15:59
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The sevenths identity will never actually be revealed and the investigation will slowly fade in to the background as it turns in to a surreal soap full of quirky characters. Then it'll get cancelled abruptly after season 2.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:02
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Sakurazuka posted:The sevenths identity will never actually be revealed and the investigation will slowly fade in to the background as it turns in to a surreal soap full of quirky characters. This theory is too implausible since it relies on the show getting a second season.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:04
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Xy Hapu posted:I meant why didn't she kill Adlet at the start of the series. Regarding the start of the series, Episode Two was a test. We saw her feeling out Adlet's combat abilities and levers, and reasoning that he'd make a pretty good spare Goldov. Remember how she volleyed him with blades then immediately started playing the innocent, flirty moe ingenue when he managed to dodge, cycling through various approaches to see what worked and what didn't?
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Sep 9, 2015 16:07
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Everything Burrito posted:This theory is too implausible since it relies on the show getting a second season. 
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Sep 9, 2015 16:15
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Darth Walrus posted:Regarding the start of the series, Episode Two was a test. We saw her feeling out Adlet's combat abilities and levers, and reasoning that he'd make a pretty good spare Goldov. Remember how she volleyed him with blades then immediately started playing the innocent, flirty moe ingenue when he managed to dodge, cycling through various approaches to see what worked and what didn't? I like that explanation and hope it's true. I still don't get why she would frame her spare Goldov though, why not frame someone not on her side? And if she has a good idea of Adlet's capabilities she probably knew he was a cockroach and could stay alive after being framed, which seems to go against her supposed objective of having everyone kill each other. And if that's not her objective why set up the framing in the first place? She could have more easily just trapped everyone and bugged out if all she wanted to do was stall the braves. Bad Seafood posted:If at any point the plan goes wrong, the seventh brave has to hypothetically fight everyone still left alive at the same time. It's in their best interest to have as many real braves killing other real braves as possible, so that when the seventh has to get their own hands dirty the chance of them getting overpowered is marginalized. This is why it would make sense for Nach to have killed Adlet earlier on, it lowers the number of braves before the game even starts, lowering her risk. It doesn't really matter who kills who as long as the seventh can safely get away with it, and it seems like a surer bet to kill him herself in relative safety than to wait until the game starts and hope she can manipulate someone else to do it, all the while this is happening the chances of her being caught increase.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:17
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Adlet may have started loving the plan up when he befriended Flamie at the start instead of getting killed by her; his death at that point then Nash & Goldov taking her out afterwards would have just left it a 3 on 2 fight at the temple and the whole locked room thing might not have even come to pass. I'm starting to wonder if the temple thing wasn't a plan B.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:22
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Adlet's being framed pretty much because he was the first one there, so the 7th's just being opportunistic. There's also the fact that he's not a high-level player in this world; he's an average man who's really good at killing fiends but he doesn't know a ton about them or magic or the the Saints otherwise.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:23
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Everything Burrito posted:Adlet may have started loving the plan up when he befriended Flamie at the start instead of getting killed by her; his death at that point then Nash & Goldov taking her out afterwards would have just left it a 3 on 2 fight at the temple and the whole locked room thing might not have even come to pass. I'm starting to wonder if the temple thing wasn't a plan B. Why would she chose to frame Adlet instead of Fremie? If Fremie gets taken out her plan is back on track. Edit: Nevermind, I read that wrong; you may be right, that would be an interesting twist. I don't know how Nach could have set up Adlet and Fremie's meeting though . . . maybe Goldov helped engineer it since he was tracking her? Mordja posted:Adlet's being framed pretty much because he was the first one there, so the 7th's just being opportunistic. There's also the fact that he's not a high-level player in this world; he's an average man who's really good at killing fiends but he doesn't know a ton about them or magic or the the Saints otherwise. If we assume Nach is the seventh, she specifically chose Adlet when she told him to go ahead onto the temple. And it seems odd she would choose to have joe averageman killed first instead of someone stronger, especially if joe is on her side. All this could make sense though if Nach took Adlet's claims of being the strongest man on earth to heart. Xy Hapu fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 16:34
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Xy Hapu posted:Why would she chose to frame Adlet instead of Fremie? If Fremie gets taken out her plan is back on track. I think not knowing the motive of the 7th hurts (for coming up with theories I mean) since if the goal is just to weaken the Braves so they can be ground into a paste by the Demon God & Co. the seventh wouldn't have to kill everybody, just 2 or 3 so they aren't strong enough to win.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:48
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If Nach was imposter (and assuming this isn't a giant plot hole, lol anime) she would have just left him in jail and taken his place. Killing or freeing him would be counterproductive due to the marks.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:57
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Everything Burrito posted:Adlet is the guy capable of talking the Brave Killer into being buddies; he's dangerous to leave for later and the show also pretty well established that once he's gone Fremie is next so I don't see that moving her from second to first on the hit list accomplishes that much. That would only make him dangerous in the sense that he'd talk everyone into not killing anyone  But that may actually be the seventh's (very stupidly-achieved) goal, since like you said we have no idea what the motivation here is. If it's Nach it's kind of hard to imagine she'll turn out to be a full blown kill-all-humans fiendmaster.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:58
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Xy Hapu posted:This is why it would make sense for Nach to have killed Adlet earlier on, it lowers the number of braves before the game even starts, lowering her risk. It doesn't really matter who kills who as long as the seventh can safely get away with it, and it seems like a surer bet to kill him herself in relative safety than to wait until the game starts and hope she can manipulate someone else to do it, all the while this is happening the chances of her being caught increase. Presuming the Nach is the seventh brave and that her goal was to trap everyone in the barrier temple, it is to her benefit that nobody suspect anything until after they're stuck together.
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Sep 9, 2015 17:07
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Mordja posted:Adlet's being framed pretty much because he was the first one there, so the 7th's just being opportunistic. There's also the fact that he's not a high-level player in this world; he's an average man who's really good at killing fiends but he doesn't know a ton about them or magic or the the Saints otherwise. Actually, I think he does know a lot about fiends. Not that that really spoils your point. I'm still going with Maura as #7, though. She hasn't been vetted in the slightest, and has acted cagey with regard to her own tattoo, often putting her back up against walls and similar. Plus, now that we know about her control of sound waves, the method for the preparation of the fog becomes clear. She used sound waves to atomize water on the ground or in a river or something. Plus, Nash is too far down the list of suspects from the point of view of Scooby and the Gang for her killing Adlet now to advance her plot (from her point of knowledge). They kill Adlet, petal fades. That makes Hans the next best suspect, since they fought and Hans was critically injured. So, since he's not going to be a major part of the fight, they can just put him out of his misery. At this point, they see another petal fade and it becomes more interesting. Probably a push will be made to get rid of Flamie, a powerful saint and the next easiest person to frame (from Nash's point of view, since she doesn't know about Adlet's evidence). But where do they go from there? They might be able to get rid of Goldof, but Nash loses all credibility if she throws him under the bus, and Chamot and Maura oba-chan are certainly strong enough to get rid of Nash, and each of the saints is confident that she can take out the demon king on her own, to say nothing of two of them. Maura's plan at this point is more clear-cut. She gets Flamie or Nash to take out Adlet, then blames one or both when no petal fades. It manages to weaken the power core of the heroes, that is the saints, rather than just getting rid of the useless baggage (the men).
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Sep 9, 2015 17:26
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Bad Seafood posted:The death of a brave is confirmed by the fading of a petal. The minute any brave dies anywhere, regardless of circumstances, the remaining five all know about it. This poses obvious complications if your goal is to infiltrate the braves and destroy them from within, even assuming you've got a mystical tattoo of your own designed to match the others. Everyone would be on their guard from the beginning, aware that someone is killing off braves - what's more, killing off one particular brave shortly after they were selected. It's one thing if it's just, say, Flamie killing off potential braves, but a chosen brave being murdered basically immediately after being chosen? It's implied to be a fairly lengthy trip to the Demon God's land. That's a lot of time for news to travel, including the fact that the murdered brave was kept in close proximity to another "Brave." The seventh brave wants all the braves to draw together, but the real braves would be less likely to do so. Suppose some of them bring additional escorts? Just to the barrier bottleneck, I mean. Suppose several of them know each other quite well? Braves seem to be chosen semi-randomly, and many of those chosen do know one another (or are at least familiar with one another). What if you get four folks all from the save general location? Kinda leaves the odd people out suspicious. There are other possible complications. Everyone already knew the fiends were striking at the braves preemptively due to the brave killer, so I don't think a preemptive strike would have surprised anyone or changed anything. If putting the braves on guard was really a consideration to the point where they would pass up killing an actual brave to keep everyone feeling safe, why would they be risking that just to kill potential braves in the first place? There's really zero chance anyone would have suspected Nach killed Adlet either, unless she completely hosed up. He was a nameless prisoner with no allies, she is a saint and the princess of a country and the only other person who thinks he might become a brave. If she can't make him disappear without anyone finding out he's a brave that's just terrible. Not to mention she's a brave, and in this scenario a brave killing another brave or even the concept of a fake brave is probably the last thing on anyone's minds, and probably sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory. A fellow brave would literally be the last person they would suspect as having killed Adlet and if anything they'd be even more eager to group up with the rest of the braves for mutual protection. Xy Hapu fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 17:59
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dogsicle posted:The 7th didn't kill anybody because the petal tatto would show it. So unless you think Maura lied about that, it doesn't discount Nash's opportunities to kill either Adlet or Goldov. And if she simply incapacitated him or left him in jail? No petals would be removed.
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Sep 9, 2015 18:09
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The 7th would've had ample opportunity to take out anyone. So their goal seems to not to actually kill them for whatever reason. Maura was with Flamie alone. Hans free to do whatever, Chamot free to do whatever. Nash and Goldov together (but they wouldn't kill each other presumably) Though she was trying to get Goldov to go after Hans.  e: Also Nash + Adlet alone, Flamie + Adlet alone, Hans and Maura alone before they even reached the temple.
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Sep 9, 2015 18:16
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Kild posted:The 7th would've had ample opportunity to take out anyone. So their goal seems to not to actually kill them for whatever reason. Maura was with Flamie alone. Hans free to do whatever, Chamot free to do whatever. Nash and Goldov together (but they wouldn't kill each other presumably) Though she was trying to get Goldov to go after Hans. The seventh had the opportunity, but any killing after the barrier went up would have narrowed them down really fast and gotten them caught. Only the pre-barrier pairings had the opportunity to kill one another without raising suspicion, and of those only Nach was shown to be in a position where she could have killed with impunity. What this says about Nach I have no idea anymore, probably that she's the seventh but also crazy/dumb.
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Sep 9, 2015 18:33
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ViggyNash posted:And if she simply incapacitated him or left him in jail? No petals would be removed. Yeah I'm not denying there are other things she could've done. I don't care to go into coulda/woulda/shoulda territory though. Everybody had equal opportunity to act in a way that would seem to benefit the 7th's goal, but none of them did. So the 7th had some framework they wanted to stick to (the barrier trap, not taking killings into their own hands, etc). All those measures seem like they were taken to ensure the best possible results while keeping the 7th alive.
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Sep 9, 2015 19:08
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dogsicle posted:Yeah I'm not denying there are other things she could've done. I don't care to go into coulda/woulda/shoulda territory though. There might be a reason why the 7th needed to have all the braves within the barrier, too. Maybe part of their deal with the demon lord or something.
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Sep 9, 2015 19:14
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I'm gonna Chamo-barf if this is setup for "I don't want anyone to die!" *disables your mobile suit* Of course Adlet will probably go genocide on the fiends anyway so that's something to look forward to.
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Sep 9, 2015 19:18
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Xy Hapu posted:Everyone already knew the fiends were striking at the braves preemptively due to the brave killer, so I don't think a preemptive strike would have surprised anyone or changed anything. If putting the braves on guard was really a consideration to the point where they would pass up killing an actual brave to keep everyone feeling safe, why would they be risking that just to kill potential braves in the first place? You wake up in the middle of the night and check your hand to see you've become a brave. Cool. You go back to sleep. You wake up in the morning, pack, and head off on your quest. You glance back at your hand again and see one of petals is already gone. What. This is a different problem than someone preemptively killing brave candidates. Brave candidates are not hard to find. Just look into whoever's the strongest warrior is in the region or, failing that, literally any saint anywhere. From an outsider's perspective it's certainly cause for concern, but it also falls along a predictable pattern. Flamie herself admitted to targeting the strongest candidates, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn her route could be traced and speculated to some extent. Midnight comes, and the six braves are chosen. Although it's likely some of them will be saints who are easily identifiable, any of them could also just be someone deemed strong enough by the heavens. Assassins typically keep a low profile so it's likely nobody even knew who Hans was before he was selected. Possibly not even after, either. So you check your hand and a brave's already dead. As you travel around you'd probably learn pretty quickly that it wasn't a saint, since saints are fairly public figures; the murder of one would not go unnoticed or unreported. You'd also learn it couldn't possibly be any particularly well-known warrior as word would likely get around about that too. What this means is some random (albeit strong) schmuck, of an untold number of other random schmucks, was selected to be a brave...and then promptly killed not even a full 24 hours later. Not even 12 hours later. They were selected to be a brave so it's unlikely they'd have an accident or just get chumped by some random fiend, and since they're a nobody that means it probably couldn't be Flamie's work since she only targets known entities. An unknown brave was tracked down and killed not even half a day after the braves were picked. That's a surgical strike. That is way more cause for concern than a general killing spree of candidates, none of whom would be difficult to locate. The seventh brave doesn't want anyone to suspect anything until they're already trapped within the barrier. Killing another brave before that point would be one of the most self-defeating things they could possibly do.
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Sep 9, 2015 23:33
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Okay, so at that point you have a freaked out brave. How do you get from there to braves suspecting each other of being traitor and braves avoiding other braves? Assuming Nach did her job properly the only information any of them would have is that a brave died very quickly. I mean the braves already know they're in deep poo poo just on account of being chosen as a brave; what else will concretely happen other than their mental danger meter going from 9 to 10? Bring more escorts? If they're not gonna bring escorts even when the survival of human civilization hinges upon their safety, with a brave killer on the loose and every fiend in the world gunning for them, I don't think they are going to bring escorts under any circumstance. Stupid no matter how you look at it but that's just the internal logic of this anime. Even if their oh poo poo meter got ramped up to 100, how would that have changed any of the events up to them reaching the barrier temple? They have no additional info to act on at all, and there's nothing to do except go meet up with the other braves and at that point the trap's already sprung. The only change I could see is that Fremie would have gotten killed instead of befriended, which only works in the seventh's favor, albeit serendipitously. You also have to remember a brave got picked off in a previous braves cycle, so it's not like the current braves weren't expecting something like this to happen. The only really surprising part would be how quickly it happened, but if Nach was worried about that she could have just left him in his cell for a few days then killed him. All she would have to do is tell him some dumb excuse like 'I think the brave killer is nearby just sit still and pretend to be a nameless prisoner for a few days until I can do something about it'. She could have just said I can't tell you why but just do it and he probably would've done it. Sure there is a small risk that upon finding out a brave died, one of the other braves would freak out (even though they knew this happened before), pull 'oh it must've been another brave that did it  ' out of thin air (even though that's not what happened the last time this happened), and go into hiding or something. That's the con. The pro is that you just wiped out a sixth of humanity's fighting force.
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Sep 10, 2015 02:03
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