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Yeah, I do sometimes, using the same general approaches as you have (flowchart & list by position). Its difficult and frustrating but I think there's probably value in it. I pretty much run into what you are talking about with the flowchart, where I end up having to get down to either really specific stuff or the other side of the coin where I just want to right down ('xxx system') which covers tons of stuff. This is kind of where I'm at now with some of it but its eh... reverse DLR, pretty comprehensible:  butterfly, trainwreck:  e: as I'm reflecting on this post I'll say I think where I have gotten the most use is really just vomiting a bunch of crap onto a chart, letting it percolate a few days, then coming back after some mat time and going through and saying "this works, this is poo poo, I don't actually do this, these vague words need to be improved on, etc". Kekekela fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 13:06
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Mind translating this into English Tenkai Kote Hineri (Turning Forearm Twist) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbJ4fQv6j1M (close enough) Kote Gaeshi (Forearm Reversal/Return) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjylF_otJZM Kouchi Gari (Minor Inner Reap) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9DnkH-2tGg Better?
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Sep 10, 2015 13:07
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n3rdal3rt posted:Tenkai Kote Hineri (Turning Forearm Twist) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbJ4fQv6j1M (close enough) please tell me you're joking with these
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Sep 10, 2015 15:16
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Mechafunkzilla posted:please tell me you're joking with these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bGH9v6OYa4 Does it help if they're wearing BJJ gi? I don't know what you want to see as an example of what the techniques are that I'm talking about. I tried finding things that showed the basic motions. Nothing looks like a kata version when done in real time. Olympic Judo throws look different then the kata versions and no one seems to say anything about it. I've said many times that what I'm talking about are not optimal things just that structurally they can give the desired effect of making someone fall down. I've used them to make someone fall down (a couple times, not every randori) but I don't video classes so I have no evidence.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:13
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I don't think of it as a flowchart, but a lot of Judo is forcible your opponent to react to something you do, then punishing that reaction. Most great Judo players have 2 great throws: their primary throw and the counter to the defense of that throw. A classic pair is seoinage and kouchi or ouchi.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:34
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n3rdal3rt posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bGH9v6OYa4 There is such a low percentage of that ever working on a resisting opponent that I can't imagine it's worth learning until you know everything else there is to know. In that video, surely the guy getting thrown could've just closed the distance, shut down one side of the guy, then taken him down with a trip or taken his back? It's another "works when you let it work" technique. gently caress letting my opponent decide if my takedown works or not.
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Sep 10, 2015 17:24
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Novum posted:I feel like if you guys directly attacked each other then this whole debate could sort itself out yet. Go ahead, grab my wrist. No, my other wrist. No, not like that.
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Sep 10, 2015 17:25
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Space human being posted:Go ahead, grab my wrist. No, my other wrist. No, not like that. You're doing it all wrong! How am I supposed to throw you when you're stopping me?!
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Sep 10, 2015 17:27
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My game flow is to pull butterfly and either transition to single leg X or do a hook sweep onto concrete/empty cardboard boxes.
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Sep 10, 2015 17:47
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Kekekela posted:reverse DLR, pretty comprehensible: this is cool but where are the hitstun/blockstun numbers?
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Sep 10, 2015 18:00
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n3rdal3rt posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bGH9v6OYa4 This is real bad, even the grip break that isn't a part of the throw itself is sloppy and nonsensical. Like, he's actually giving up a good position in order to re-square to his opponent, which would make the guy release his grip for...reasons. I've made people fall down in sparring by shoving them in the chest, but I wouldn't go around touting the chest shove as a legitimate technique worth practicing. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 18:05
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This is how you take down the type of opponent who tries to shake your hand and then immediately does an unexplained somersault
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Sep 10, 2015 18:27
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n3rdal3rt posted:Nothing looks like a kata version when done in real time. Olympic Judo throws look different then the kata versions and no one seems to say anything about it. Yeah, no. I'm not a particularly good judoka or wrestler, but my successful throws and takedowns look 85%-100% like the kata versions. Same with the moves my teachers show me. poo poo, the cleanest tai otoshi I ever hit was in sparring, not during drills.  Lol.
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Sep 10, 2015 18:38
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origami posted:My game flow is to pull butterfly and either transition to single leg X or do a hook sweep onto concrete/empty cardboard boxes. My game flow is to hit a nice takedown into side control, then have my opponent work his way into half guard, then full guard, then he triangles me
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Sep 10, 2015 19:20
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My bjj coach Ryan Hall showing off the 50/50 on TUF last night: http://streamable.com/j1ww
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Sep 10, 2015 19:38
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de la peche posted:There is such a low percentage of that ever working on a resisting opponent that I can't imagine it's worth learning until you know everything else there is to know. In that video, surely the guy getting thrown could've just closed the distance, shut down one side of the guy, then taken him down with a trip or taken his back? It's another "works when you let it work" technique. gently caress letting my opponent decide if my takedown works or not.
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Sep 10, 2015 19:58
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2DCAT posted:My bjj coach Ryan Hall showing off the 50/50 on TUF last night: http://streamable.com/j1ww You ever train with Mike Pope?
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Sep 10, 2015 21:36
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2DCAT posted:My bjj coach Ryan Hall showing off the 50/50 on TUF last night: http://streamable.com/j1ww Obviously here in Ireland everyone is crazy about McGregor but do any of you guys have an opinion on him?
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Sep 10, 2015 22:06
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origami posted:My game flow is to pull butterfly and either transition to single leg X or do a hook sweep onto concrete/empty cardboard boxes. Lol gently caress. You're playing the long game with this. Thug.
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Sep 10, 2015 22:11
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VulgarandStupid posted:You ever train with Mike Pope? I think he's up at Disciple? I stopped heading that way once Tiago went back to Brazil.
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Sep 10, 2015 22:20
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Rabhadh posted:Obviously here in Ireland everyone is crazy about McGregor but do any of you guys have an opinion on him? I like him, appreciate the showmanship during the leadup but being gracious in victory. Seems like a genuinely witty and loyal guy as well. Also Billy Quarantillo on team Faber (aks Channing - Wahlburg) is an awesome guy from my gym, please all send goon vibrations his way.
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Sep 10, 2015 22:31
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kimbo305 posted:Link the site, or ideally, some lesson/training videos. The site just has some basic information, no instruction video's or anything. I'm a euro goon and the site is in moon language so linking it isn't really usefull  The school teaches both Judo and JJJ and is affiliated with the Dutch Judo Association (so no McDojo I guess). Mechafunkzilla posted:Not really, no. Though I guess JJJ practitioners are as free as anyone else to enter open grappling tournaments. On the Dutch Judo Association it mentions there are Jiu Jitsu tournaments in 2 different froms: Fighting and Duo. Duo is an exhibition form, and fighting is sparring with limitations (no full contact/KO). Not that I'm looking to take part in any tournaments, I just want to train to get in shape and do so while learning something that's somewhat usefull. I'll give the JJJ entry course a try, if it's not what I want I can always go searching for a decent BJJ school in the neighbourhood.
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Sep 10, 2015 22:32
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IT BEGINS posted:Yeah, no. I'm not a particularly good judoka or wrestler, but my successful throws and takedowns look 85%-100% like the kata versions. Same with the moves my teachers show me. poo poo, the cleanest tai otoshi I ever hit was in sparring, not during drills. Didn't that guy cause some kind of to-do by teaching BJJ techniques as a purple belt while wearing his JJJ black belt a few years ago? Keg fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 22:42
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I haven't done any aikido or other traditional martial arts really, just some mma/SW/Muay Thai as a low level hobbyist, but it seems to me that it's a bit mistaken to write of wrist locks and throws just beacause they won't really work on a trained opponent in a cage or on the dreaded streets. I mean most real world violence won't be UFC fights or desperate self defence against a deadly street fighter trying his best to murder you with his bare hand in an alley in Medellin. A very large percentage of violent confronatations will consist of bouncers, security guards and police officers having to subdue and control various untarined, unathletic, drunk and/or high idiots. Isn't it possible that various wrist locks and throws could be useful tools in such fairly low threat situations when you want to subdue someone with a minimum amount of force? If so it seems like such techniques might be worthwhile to train for at least people working in such professions.
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Sep 10, 2015 22:46
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Keg posted:Didn't that guy cause some kind of to-do by teaching BJJ techniques as a purple belt while wearing his JJJ black belt a few years ago? fatherdog posted:Submissions101 is run by Ari Bolden, a Japanese JiuJitsu and Aikido black belt who got a purple shirt from Bravo on the strength of his "previous grappling experience" and started his own school in Victoria. He then started doing "submission instructionals" on his youtube channel wearing a BJJ gi and his Japanese Jiujitsu black belt. His instructionals were, generally, laughably bad, but also quite popular because he was very good at advertising. When people starting noticing him, Bravo and him "parted ways" and he affiliated with Keith Owen, who appears to have been fast-tracking him through BJJ ranks.
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Sep 10, 2015 22:46
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Thanks, I thought the channel was familiar
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Sep 10, 2015 22:47
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Kekekela posted:Yeah, I do sometimes, using the same general approaches as you have (flowchart & list by position). Its difficult and frustrating but I think there's probably value in it. I think a lot of people will start to subconsciously piece together a decent gameplan lesson to lesson, and they just occasionally need to step back and think about it to rearrange things. But I'm the special kind of retard who is incapable of it, subconsciously I just collect whatever moves feel like the most fun and I hit them in a random sequence to no logical end because grappling is so much fun, and I have to really force myself to not do so. It was a mindblowing, plateau-breaking revelation when I just said to myself "hey why don't you just take their back and choke them every roll instead, moron" awhile back. And then when I realized that I should only go for rolling backtakes after the direct backtakes fail, that was also really mindblowing. I'm really dumb, I just get entranced by jiu-jitsu and how cool it is. Kekekela posted:e: as I'm reflecting on this post I'll say I think where I have gotten the most use is really just vomiting a bunch of crap onto a chart, letting it percolate a few days, then coming back after some mat time and going through and saying "this works, this is poo poo, I don't actually do this, these vague words need to be improved on, etc". I find myself checking my big mass of scribbles every week or two, writing out the stuff that I've learned recently, and trying to decide if it fits into my plan or not. I've cut down from a whirling mass of stupid guards down to just half/closed/butterfly/x, and a whirling mass of stupid attacks to a couple of good ones that don't put me in a bad position if they fail. Suddenly I'm tapping everybody? What is this?
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Sep 11, 2015 03:23
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Rabhadh posted:Obviously here in Ireland everyone is crazy about McGregor but do any of you guys have an opinion on him? There's (extremely voluminous) MMA threads that talk about McGregor all day, if you wanna check those out. My take on his striking: - his immense reach is a huge asset and something he integrates into his overall game - he has a good suite of distraction/changeup tactics that he leads with and blends into his actual (effective) striking. Like, he doesn't care if his lead hook kick lands or not. He just needs you to be puzzled by it, pause, and reset. This brings the dictation of rhythm back to him. - his power is good, but his damage comes from accuracy and pretty good technique. The fluid and stable way he covers ground doing a 1-2 is really nice. Just an example of his solid firing base - his defense is based largely on distancing and countering threat, and not upper body movement
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Sep 11, 2015 03:57
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DekeThornton posted:A very large percentage of violent confronatations will consist of bouncers, security guards and police officers having to subdue and control various untarined, unathletic, drunk and/or high idiots. Isn't it possible that various wrist locks and throws could be useful tools in such fairly low threat situations when you want to subdue someone with a minimum amount of force? If so it seems like such techniques might be worthwhile to train for at least people working in such professions. In a "real" situation, you're much more likely to pull off a technique you've used against resisting opponents in sparring/rolling. Plus, it's not really difficult to scale back a foot sweep to "ease" someone to the floor to control them rather than smashing their head into it. There's all kinds of hypothetical situations where standing wristlocks could work, but in those same situations plenty of pressure tested, competition legal techniques also work.
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Sep 11, 2015 03:59
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Space human being posted:In a "real" situation, you're much more likely to pull off a technique you've used against resisting opponents in sparring/rolling. Plus, it's not really difficult to scale back a foot sweep to "ease" someone to the floor to control them rather than smashing their head into it. There's all kinds of hypothetical situations where standing wristlocks could work, but in those same situations plenty of pressure tested, competition legal techniques also work. On top of this, gambling that the guy you're trying to restrain didn't wrestle in middle school doesn't seem like a great approach.
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Sep 11, 2015 08:21
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Mechafunkzilla posted:On top of this, gambling that the guy you're trying to restrain didn't wrestle in middle school doesn't seem like a great approach. It is, if you live in western Europe.
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Sep 11, 2015 08:52
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DekeThornton posted:It is, if you live in western Europe. Or any where that isn't the Midwest.
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Sep 11, 2015 16:13
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2DCAT posted:I think he's up at Disciple? I stopped heading that way once Tiago went back to Brazil. He is/was up in Boston lately. Came to Wai Kru. He said he was Ryan's main training partners. He's a beast.
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Sep 11, 2015 18:44
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Do you guys ever nerd out and start making flowcharts and stuff to help your grappling? How do you organize it? I tend to have 3 modes of note taking for bjj: 'flowchart-y' stuff where I list a position and things I know/should work on from there, brain vomit where i just spit out whatever I'm still thinking about after a class, and more organized 'Q/D/C' notes. In the latter, Q stands for questions to ask, D stands for things to do, and C stands for comments (general stuff to remember). Examples:   From top to bottom left to bottom right, QDC, brain vomit, flowchart stuff.
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Sep 11, 2015 20:03
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Man, I need to get more organised... all this 'writing stuff down' actually looks like it would help me considerably.
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Sep 11, 2015 21:17
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Keeping track of questions that pop into your head is a good idea. I should do that.
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Sep 12, 2015 04:01
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Polaris 2 is looking pretty cool, I shall be drinking rum later and shouting well-meaning but useless encouragement to Tom Barlow and Dan Strauss.
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Sep 12, 2015 12:25
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Those mind maps and spider diagrams are pretty cool. I feel it's something that could benefit me now. I take notes on techniques and stuff, questions to ask etc., after every class but until recently, I figured planning these things out (the diagrams) wouldn't help me much as I was a bit swamped with positions and techniques. It's been a year now so I'm feeling more and more familiar with the passes, the skills, the finishes, everything basically is making a lot of sense to me now. With that being said, I wonder if anyone here can remember what it was like in their first year, and share their thoughts. I think I've come to a point where I've learned how to swim, I'm familiar with the levers and basic dos and don't, I don't tend to get lost or drown and find myself very comfortable in awkward and daunting positions (technical mount, stacked for a stack pass etc). I feel my defense is a lot stronger than my attack, though someone in the gym explained to me that that was very normal, in order to successfully mount attacks, you need to survive first of all, then stablize, improve position, stablize there, then know which submission to attempt, with conviction & awareness. It seems to be very much like a heirarchy & it takes a lot of mat time to get to the apex (whereby attacks and submissions are coming). I roll every chance I can get, with everyone I can. I very rarely roll with less experienced people (lower tabs, or however you want to term it), only because, there are very few people who roll regularly who are less experienced than I in my club. Hopefully, with some recent promotions, this will change and I can experience being in dominant positions. Anyway, I've rambled. I wanted to garner some tales from guys and understand where you were, how you felt and how confident etc. you were at the 1 year stage.
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Sep 12, 2015 17:33
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Doing my first MMA class tomorrow. I'm excited to see how underhooks feel as opposed to having to grab that lapel. A random story I just remembered too... At my old club in Aus we were always told to train our throws off the sleeve lapel grip because thats the easiest grip to get. The ideal lapel grip being half way between the opponents neck and nipple. So for years we trained that grip only. One day we had the coach of the italian olympic judo club come for a few sessions to run classes. As we started our first randori and grabbed the grips, he sort of held his head and yelled stop. He said in his broken english 'why you do grip like that. thats wrong. stop. everyone stop. you arent japanese fighters, you dont grab lapel. You grab behind the neck. you not flexible and fast like japan. you grab strong behind the neck from now on. ok go!' and I sort of laughed inside but he was dead serious and for the rest of the lessons he would scold us and fix our grip for us to make it a behind the head grip for most of our throws if he ever saw us doing the lapel grip. Makes me laugh to remember everyone standing there like 'oh ok, my grip training for years has been wrong aye?'
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Sep 13, 2015 01:23
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Nierbo posted:Doing my first MMA class tomorrow. I'm excited to see how underhooks feel as opposed to having to grab that lapel. I don't do a lot of stuff in the Gi, but when I do BJJ with the Gi, I find that grabbing in the first place mentioned can sometimes be pulled all the way to stomach level before the tension stops it. If you grab behind the neck, like this guy says, the collar can only slide to the first place mentioned. So that kind of makes sense to me, it's just better control. I'm the opposite of you, I do mostly no-Gi and MMA so underhooks are key, but when I do gi I'm very hesitant and I don't know where to grab. VulgarandStupid fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 07:07
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