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Question to 4k TV havers: Is your TV really either that close to you or over 60 inches so that you can actually tell the difference between it and 1080, or did you just get drawn in by buzzwords and need to buy a shiny new thing?
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Sep 10, 2015 16:38
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It's your basic tech chicken-and-egg problem. The network capacity isn't there so no one's leaping to serve 4K content. The content isn't there so adoption of 4K gear is sluggish. The gear isn't widespread so the demand for infrastructure to support it is weak. So the network doesn't get upgraded. If the new game consoles supported 4K output (or if Steam machines take off) then we might break this stalemate, but streaming video won't do it.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:45
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The only reason it's weird that Apple didn't put 4k in the new ATV is because the new IPhones can record content at that resolution. Now there's no obvious way to view your 4k videos, making it seem a little pointless? I guess they'll look nice on iPad screens though.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:46
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I just got a 70" 4K Vizio. and I can certainly tell the difference between 1080p and 4K. My wife can't, but she can't even tell the difference between 480p and 1080p. This TV is for me anyway. Our living room is arranged so that our seating is right in the sweet spot. We mainly watch media via Apple TV, up-converted Blu Ray and the little bit of Netflix 4K media that is available(no cable subscription). Currently champing at the bit to snag a UHD Blu-Ray player. My previous set was/is a 50" Pioneer Kuro 1080p plasma. Before that I had a 55" Mitsubishi 1080i projection unit. Before *that* I had an RCA 46" SDTV. I could detect the difference in picture quality for each set as I upgraded. I've been a home theater enthusiast since I bought my first 4 head hi fi VCR/Laser-Disc player/Dolby Surround receiver/multi-speaker set up.. Any thing that improves my viewing experience works for me.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:49
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TheJoker138 posted:Question to 4k TV havers: Is your TV really either that close to you or over 60 inches so that you can actually tell the difference between it and 1080, or did you just get drawn in by buzzwords and need to buy a shiny new thing? I needed to buy a TV because I didn't own one, and the weird geometry of my room meant I wanted 75" or so. There weren't that many TVs with good display quality (local dimming, etc) that didn't have 4K, but looking at a few other displays running 1080 when I was shopping convinced me that I could tell the difference.
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Sep 10, 2015 17:23
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TheJoker138 posted:Question to 4k TV havers: Is your TV really either that close to you or over 60 inches so that you can actually tell the difference between it and 1080, or did you just get drawn in by buzzwords and need to buy a shiny new thing? I've been wondering, too: what, if anything, is the difference between watching Mad Max on ATV (current version) vs on the PS4? I think ATV doesn't have HD audio, but I'm not even sure what that is, but my surround system supports DTS and Dolby. I just get the impression that the visual quality is a little subpar, but I could just be wrong I guess.
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Sep 10, 2015 18:58
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ufarn posted:I've been wondering, too: what, if anything, is the difference between watching Mad Max on ATV (current version) vs on the PS4? I think ATV doesn't have HD audio, but I'm not even sure what that is, but my surround system supports DTS and Dolby. If you mean watching it on Blu-Ray, that will have noticeably higher quality than an ITMS rental (or any other streamable source that isn't a straight BR rip). The tradeoff is that the PS4 will produce a small amount of noise that the ATV doesn't, although with a movie like that it won't matter.
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Sep 10, 2015 19:08
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FCKGW posted:Kinda disappointed there wasn't a single mention of Homekit for the AppleTV. I wonder if those rumors were bunk or if they're still planning some sort of Homekit hub, maybe a refresh Airport Extreme. I think the existing Apple TV was the HomeKit hub, according to this article: http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-homekit-review-siris-new-smart-home-already-needs-renovation-1435077442 quote:Regardless of your particular appliances, you’ll need one other piece of hardware: a $69 Apple TV. It serves as a secure bridge from your iPhone back into the house—by way of Apple’s encrypted computers—when you’re away from your home Wi-Fi network. (The Apple TV won’t be required when Apple integrates HomeKit with iCloud in iOS 9 this fall.) The new one probably will work the same but will support giving commands via Apple TV Siri rather than iPhone Siri.
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Sep 10, 2015 19:19
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I know google owns nest now, but all my poo poo is nest and I really wish it were homekit compatible. But I'm not replacing it just so I can have a works with apple logo.
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Sep 10, 2015 20:08
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Have they shown what browsing a shared iTunes library will look like? That's my main method of playing music on my current ATV, since very little of my library was actually purchased through iTunes.
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Sep 10, 2015 20:33
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smackfu posted:I think the existing Apple TV was the HomeKit hub, according to this article: I work with HomeKit and can verify that the ATV3 works as a sort of gateway for wifi-enabled HomeKit devices. This effectively allows users to control their accessories from outside the home. It also allows users to set up to run daily (or any recurrence, really) timers that will fire even if the user is outside their home. Without an ATV3, it is not possible to do these things. At least, not in iOS 8. iOS 9 is a different story and will allow these things without an ATV, but will require updated firmware on the HomeKit accessories.
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Sep 10, 2015 20:34
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TyrantWD posted:Games are really going to take over the TV Appstore, and the A8 isn't going to be too impressive with more demanding games blown up on a 50inch screen. I think a refreshed A9 Apple TV would be nailed on for next year (along with those content deals that Apple were still working on). Given the possibility of eating into the home-console market space, I'd be surprised if we don't get a refresh every year for the next few years, and an eventual pro model with an AXX to put the squeeze on console makers. I'm not so sure that Apple will be as keen to push a yearly upgrade cycle with this device, although I guess I could picture a scenario in which they would want to capitalize on the relatively long life cycles of consoles to squeeze out a quick succession of upgrades. For one, I'd argue that it's probably way less demanding to display an app on a 1080p screen, regardless of the screen's size, than on an iPad retina display. Detail becomes less critical the farther away one moves from the screen as well. Factor in things like not having to worry about battery/heat management nearly as much, and I think that calling the A8 underpowered for this task is premature. Also, I just don't think it makes sense from a buying/selling standpoint. There's a level of palpable design/performance change in phones and PCs to justify an annual upgrade cycle that a device intended to never leave the media cabinet won't have. I like the new AppleTV, even though the lack of optical out means that it'll be a real bitch to connect to a 2-channel receiver. I don't think it stands a snowball's chance in hell of ever uprooting the big consoles (AAA Games, etc) but I think it'll easily eat their lunch in the 'a box to handle your unified audio/visual/digital/social media needs' department that Sony and Microsoft have pushed so hard (and at the expense of games, IMO). And for all of the people eagerly dismissing AppleTV's potential as a gaming platform, the biggest places where the Wii and FireTV and OUYA have failed are where Apple arguably has excelled the most in (apps and the people who make them/a well-established, super streamlined way of getting those apps to customers cheaply), on top of having all of the money in the world and hyperpopular peripheral devices already out on the market to bolster it. Comparing the AppleTV's development world in 2015 to what people couldn't do with the Wii ten years ago- or to the weird bastard fork of Android in the FireTV (and to say nothing about every reason why the OUYA failed) doesn't make sense to me. They're vastly different circumstances. And while Valve is pushing the SteamOS and Steam Machines initiative for the living room at the moment, I could also envision a scenario 4-5 years from now where streaming has matured to the point where a Steam AppleTV app could make sense à la OnLive or the Playstation streaming service. If I were Apple, I'd honestly be walking to Gabe's office with a couple of billion dollars right now going "what do we need to start building together to make this happen?"
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Sep 10, 2015 20:42
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Electric Bugaloo posted:I like the new AppleTV, even though the lack of optical out poo poo, I've got to rejigger my home theater setup then. Didn't even notice the removal at first. Edit: Turns out to not be a big deal. My main TV has optical out so I'll just plug that into the stereo instead (probably should've been doing that already). Thwomp fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 20:53
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Bass Bottles posted:The only reason it's weird that Apple didn't put 4k in the new ATV is because the new IPhones can record content at that resolution. Now there's no obvious way to view your 4k videos, making it seem a little pointless? I guess they'll look nice on iPad screens though. And Mac screens. You'd be really surprised by the amount of actual honest-to-dog media content that gets captured on smartphones these days, mixed in practically indistinguishably with all of the stuff captured on "real" cameras. People will shoot usable 4K with iPhones.
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Sep 10, 2015 20:53
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Thwomp posted:poo poo, I've got to rejigger my home theater setup then. Didn't even notice the removal at first. It's rare for TVs to pass through digital signals via their optical outs unmolested, they have an awful habit of down mixing to stereo.  I'm using an HDMI matrixer I got from Amazon that has its own optical out, as my amp is old and lovely and doesn't do HDMI audio. Works a treat and can't wait to get an apple TV into the mix. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00RE4RVDE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00 Unit was actually HDMI1.4 compliant, and all my 3d stuff works a treat through it to.
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Sep 10, 2015 21:15
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Absolute Zeroes posted:It's rare for TVs to pass through digital signals via their optical outs unmolested, they have an awful habit of down mixing to stereo. Often that can be changed in the settings. But yeah, it's never the best option, AFAIK.
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Sep 10, 2015 23:06
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Thwomp posted:Does any iDevice include h.265 yet? Electric Bugaloo posted:And while Valve is pushing the SteamOS and Steam Machines initiative for the living room at the moment, I could also envision a scenario 4-5 years from now where streaming has matured to the point where a Steam AppleTV app could make sense à la OnLive or the Playstation streaming service. The nerdy side of me wants a VNC client (ideally Apple would make their own using AirPlay for audio/video) and other computery stuff that could be done with a paired keyboard and the remote's touchpad input. Hell a browser, although I read somewhere that there's no WebKit. In any case depending on what's allowed, it can be like a $150 iOS desktop  As far as media stuff, nPlayer (or whatever your player of choice) for random videos and HDHomeRun DVR client, whenever that server is ready for primetime at least. I could ditch WMC for my cable and just use ATVs then.
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Sep 10, 2015 23:14
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japtor posted:In any case depending on what's allowed, it can be like a $150 iOS desktop Give it Pages, Safari and wireless keyboard/Magic Trackpad support that would actually be pretty badass. A super cheap way for college/high school kids to crank out book reports.
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Sep 11, 2015 01:17
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Can't you already mirror/display cast to an ATV from iOS? I guess it's a start.
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Sep 11, 2015 01:45
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Can't you already mirror/display cast to an ATV from iOS? I guess it's a start.
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Sep 11, 2015 02:12
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Yeah using AirPlay in realtime is somewhat less than ideal unless your idea of an iOS desktop has a second or so of lag.
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Sep 11, 2015 02:54
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Bass Bottles posted:The only reason it's weird that Apple didn't put 4k in the new ATV is because the new IPhones can record content at that resolution. Now there's no obvious way to view your 4k videos, making it seem a little pointless? I guess they'll look nice on iPad screens though. Under this logic you won't be able to watch your 4K recordings on the iPhone you recorded it on. It'll just be downscaled, like on the iPhone. You'll only be able to 1:1 it on an iMac 5K, forthcoming iMac 4Ks, and some third party panels. Also, if you're doing something serious, you may or may not want to downscale it to 1080p anyway. 4K movies are filmed on 6K+ systems for that reason, and 1080p movies on 2K+.
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Sep 11, 2015 05:38
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The 4K thing raises eyebrows for me in the same way that it did when Apple sold an ATV that only did 720p until like 2012.. The pessimistic side of me just thinks it's planned obsolescence because I can't come up with a good reason it wasn't included, but who knows.
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Sep 11, 2015 12:45
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People would expect games to run in 4K.
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Sep 11, 2015 12:54
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Planned obsolescence is part of Apple's design philosophy. They hold on to new iPhone features just so they have something to show off next year. I don't think it's cynical to assume that, it's just known.
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Sep 11, 2015 12:58
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smackfu posted:People would expect games to run in 4K. The box could output 4K without the game running on 4K render targets, just like games scale up on consoles all the time. Or it could output 1080p like the consoles and people would be *perfectly* happy.
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Sep 11, 2015 14:00
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Bass Bottles posted:Planned obsolescence is part of Apple's design philosophy. They hold on to new iPhone features just so they have something to show off next year. I don't think it's cynical to assume that, it's just known. That's not planned obsolescence at all.
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Sep 11, 2015 15:53
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As someone who doesn't play games on media devices, what advantage (if any) does the new Apple TV offer over the Roku 3 or FireTV except for being in the Apple ecosystem? Is there any reason to get this over anything else for $150? I do own a couple iPads and an iPhone, is AirPlay pretty cool for videos and poo poo?
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Sep 12, 2015 17:09
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Auron posted:As someone who doesn't play games on media devices, what advantage (if any) does the new Apple TV offer over the Roku 3 or FireTV except for being in the Apple ecosystem? Is there any reason to get this over anything else for $150? I do own a couple iPads and an iPhone, is AirPlay pretty cool for videos and poo poo? The main focus is definitely apps. The advantage that the new ATV has over the competition is that it's newer, it has better/more powerful hardware, Apple have arguably spent more time developing it, and that Apple's app ecosystem should arguably be SUBSTANTIALLY better than Amazon's within a few weeks. Also the new UI, but time will have to tell on that front. (That said, it's been all but confirmed that Amazon will be launching an updated FireTV by the end of the fall.) But if you're not at all interested in running applications on your set-top box then the new ATV will probably be overkill, at least for now. If you just want AirPlay (which is pretty cool) and iOS device mirroring/screensharing then you could probably get away with just the $69 old one that's being kept around. Also, it's worth noting that the new ATV only has HDMI out, instead of the optical/line out. if you plan to use AirPlay for wireless music streaming and need a stereo/optical connection to an amp or receiver, then you'll also have to stick with the old one...or with an Airport Express if you're just interested in audio.
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Sep 12, 2015 18:17
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"Apps" are also a very diluted concept at this point. "Apps" also include "channels", so it's really exciting for cordcutters or people who've had to watch videos on a crappy website up until this point. It'll move us away from the web in general towards native apps, which is great, because 99% are awfully designed. AirPlay is fantastic - when it works. I game my mom my old iPad and a new ATV, and she no longer has to hook up her MacBook up to her TV to watch online video. (Twitch AirPlay is total poo poo for one - but with the new Apple TV, we'll no longer have to rely on AirPlay to the extent that we do. It'll also be a big deal for eSports and watching livestreamers, if that's your thing.)
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Sep 12, 2015 21:34
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I figure I might as well post this here since i don't see a roku thread, but can anyone speak to how well the universal search works on the Roku stick? I'm currently using a Chromecast, but it'd be nice to have Amazon Prime Video available too without using my computer. As best as I can tell, like the new Apple TV, the Roku stick is able to do search across HBO, Netflix, and Amazon, correct? Is there any reason not to get one for $50 now, especially since unfortunately the new Apple TV can't do Amazon?
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Sep 12, 2015 21:41
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Someone's already done an unboxing video of the new Apple TV. Hopefully that means that "late October" doesn't actually mean like Oct 31.
OldSenileGuy fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 21:44
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ufarn posted:"Apps" are also a very diluted concept at this point. "Apps" also include "channels", so it's really exciting for cordcutters or people who've had to watch videos on a crappy website up until this point. It'll move us away from the web in general towards native apps, which is great, because 99% are awfully designed. What do you think the ’concept’ of apps is or was? What platform do you watch twitch on and think ’yes, this is how I like to view and interact with content? ‘ Why do you think that companies who can’t make a good product following the open standards of the web will suddenly excel with purpose built apps? Don’t get me wrong, the ability to install apps is a feature ATV 1st gen should’ve shipped with. But many of the current applications on ATV don’t work properly all the time and that’s with Apple giving much stricter oversight than I’d expect moving forward. The ios app store is still unnavigable poo poo, filled with 10 throwaway search result scamming apps for every decent result.
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Sep 12, 2015 22:08
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So I'm guessing the Canadian price will be $200. Seems like the price for some other items maps directly in a $ for $ conversion so $150US is ~$200CDN.
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Sep 12, 2015 22:26
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Kaizoku posted:
? There wasn't even an app store when the 1st gen ATV was released. Hell, the iPhone was still 3 months away.
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Sep 12, 2015 22:33
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Bass Bottles posted:Planned obsolescence is part of Apple's design philosophy. They hold on to new iPhone features just so they have something to show off next year. I don't think it's cynical to assume that, it's just known. Anecdotal, but I really have a hard time believing the planned obsolescence talk when the Apple stuff I buy greatly outlives anything else my friends and family buy. Some years ago I bought a MacBook Pro and an iPhone 3G. I just installed El Capitan on that MacBook Pro, and two years ago I replaced the iPhone 3G with an iPhone 5S. The iPhone 5S runs iOS 9 just as good as the iOS 7 it came with. The chip's still speedy, the display's still great, it's still got Touch ID, it still runs every app I throw at it, there's simply no reason to upgrade beyond camera lust, Apple Pay, and that new 3D Touch stuff I've lived however many years without. I particularly remember hearing about planned obsolescence with Air Drop, Airplay, and Apple Pay, but it's hard to do stuff like that when the required chips physically don't exist.
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Sep 12, 2015 22:51
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Triglav posted:Anecdotal, but I really have a hard time believing the planned obsolescence talk when the Apple stuff I buy greatly outlives anything else my friends and family buy. I think we have different definitions. I just mean that they deliberately hold back features so that they can get people to upgrade yearly. They probably figured that people will be less likely to upgrade to the next Apple TV without a standout feature besides "better graphics" so they left 4k out of this one. I think in two years we'll get an upgraded one with 4k and the latest iPhone chip or whatever.
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Sep 12, 2015 23:01
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Triglav posted:Anecdotal, but I really have a hard time believing the planned obsolescence talk when the Apple stuff I buy greatly outlives anything else my friends and family buy. Right, but in two years nobody will say "Well the 2015 AppleTV plays 4k as well as the 2017 AppleTV so there's no reason to upgrade". That's the type of "planned obsolescence" I meant. Feature obsolescence, I guess? IMHO I am just guessing that 4k and buttonless "Hey Siri" will be on the block for the next revision. Don't get me wrong: I have Yosemite running on a 2007-era iMac at work and aside from some beachballing here and there it runs just fine. I don't think planned obsolescence hits everywhere, but in some major ways I do think it hits. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 23:05
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Bass Bottles posted:I think we have different definitions. I just mean that they deliberately hold back features so that they can get people to upgrade yearly. Martytoof posted:Right, but in two years nobody will say "Well the 2015 AppleTV plays 4k as well as the 2017 AppleTV so there's no reason to upgrade". That's the type of "planned obsolescence" I meant. Feature obsolescence, I guess? I can see product management like that coming into play, yeah, but can the A8 chip inside the Apple TV handle 4K rendering and playback? I'm sure an iPad chip like the A9X going into the new iPad Pro can, but would that pressure the iPad Pro's supply line or require Apple opening more fabrication contracts, resulting in a $200 base price that looks bad next to the $70 Apple TV 3? What about this being the first Apple TV with an App Store, and that App Store still being majorly filled by apps not updated for the iPhone 6 Plus' 1080p? I do wish it was future-proofed with 4K, but I can't imagine the cost–benefit analysis involving just "how do we ensure upgrades next refresh."
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Sep 12, 2015 23:47
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You know honestly it might not, but then again it's probably possible to tune the hardware to actually play 4K sufficiently well given that the hardware is basically geared toward a single task. We'll never know, but I imagine that the new one will get a new chip so it's pointless to try to figure out anyway  I guess what I mean is that if Apple really wanted they could have thrown a better chip in there for 4K, but they decided to keep the price point down to not do so right now. The lack of general 4K content and the rate of adoption of 4K displays means they have probably a year or two to make a device plenty capable of 4K and ensure more return sales down the road. I don't think that 4K was left out specifically to ensure more sales, no. But I also think that if they really wanted to add 4K they could have. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 00:04
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